5. Use unique cosmetics for the actual armor found in the instance, inspired by Fornost. (The same should really be done with Great Barrows and Annuminas.
Is it really the same cosmetics all over? The higher you get in crafted armor sets, the more generic the loot looks from tier to tier. The loot simply must look better.
Besides it being fun, I think the only reason I will do this again will be for star-lit crystal drops.
After having done one full T2C run and two half runs, I'm yet to see a crystal drop. So those wont be the reason I go back.
We did however get only one chest aswell in all runs/wings. What a downer.
Armour drops are a joke. Not even cosmetic value. Challenge is moderate at best. With a good kin group it's not even moderate. I still like the place though. Maybe just nostalgic! (but pretty please, dearest devs, we will absolutely not mind loot upgrade)
On meds/marks. With 4 wings done on t2 and challenge, earned a little over 3k marks and around 500 meds. But that's with all quests/deeds finished and without finder bonus. So once deeds are done, will be less. Good for marks for those of us who dont like farming skirms solo. Not so good for meds.
Agree with most of the sentiments here. Did the 3 wings on challenge; had to stop before the final because we lost someone.
So far, not much of a fan. Don't like the have to run the first three wings in order mechanic (means you're going to have to start on the first many, many times when forming a new group). Don't like the gimmicky nature of water challenge. Definitely don't like the lack of reward.
Cool to run through once. After that, probably not so much.
The developers seem to forget something. Very often.
Why do you think people never used to re-run raid skirmishes weekly before you put those teal equipment and 2nd age symbols in them?
The novelty of repeatable content runs out after you complete it successfully a couple times. Even once perhaps, if it is a scaled version of an old instance. As with all repeatable content in the game, whether it be solo or fellowship or raid sized, what brings people to run it again after the novelty is gone are the rewards.
Unless you make it more desirable to repeat the Fornost instances, your effort spent revamping them will be wasted and to be honest I won't even shed a tear.
the funny things is that yes the scale fight is nice exept first wing which is not appropriate with lags since last update. Loot #### no sense, sure loot is not all but kind of keeping people busy.
I heard that would be last content update since next expansion in October ? beside maybe some book patch soo on. Sound kind of empty. I was worried about people leaving to GW2 if nothing really comes out .... well that will make people go play to GW2 and come once in a while in lotro...
Does lotro do not care hopping get new free to pay to keep on? well those will leave if they do not see others people in the game.
Let's hope getting back on fornost that they will solve looting to make people go and aswell free to pay to pay for it.
Considering this is all of the 'new content'... which is actually an old recycled instance (yet again) without much incentive to run it in particular like for certain teals etc, and when you can get starlit crystals in the other end game content, plus having no more real content released until Rohan from what i hear which is about 4 or 5 months away...
Conclusion =
Many people seem to be disgruntled with how things are going, so i hope turbine starts really reading our feedback and adjusting to what the majority of the people posting seem to want, to keep us around as well as the new guys.
Last edited by twisted_one; May 16 2012 at 03:47 PM.
One of my fav. instances of all time. Ran it yesterday, lots of fun.
Won't run it again most likely, because there's 0 incentive. No loot, a very small amount of barter items...
I wish your content devs would talk to the loot guys and work together, because this is a joke.
Based on some commentary in the Fornost revamp dev diary, I feel the main thing they wanted to accomplish by updating it was to make Fornost a viable instance cluster to run for people that are still leveling up, with loot primarily most beneficial to toons in their 30's or 40's. Think GA revamp, but with the ability to scale to 75.
I haven't run revamped Fornost yet, but if it is a fun and relatively challenging cluster, hopefully they will hear the voice of the people and update the loot rewards, but I don't see them adding too many (if any) top-level reward items and rather just maybe adjusting the amount of seals, medallions and marks that are rewarded. And that would be fine by me because I could use another place to farm medallions and seals besides Foundry and RoF.
Ran this with my kin last night. We were all very excited to go back there. We did 2 wings and that prolly as much as were gonna do. I don't need there to be teals in there but the meds and seals need to be on par with foundry or rof. Was really looking forward to this but I know after people in my kin see it once they wont run it again. What a waste of an opportunity for turbine.
As others have already stated, do not compare it to the likes of RoF or Foundry. Even for Seals/Medallions/Marks it is more in line with School, Library, Annunimas, GB... not the newer instances. I would classify it as "beginner" instances. Meaning the loot isn't great, but it may be better then some quest reward pieces.Good for fresh level 75s too. It would be nice if it had some good loot though obviously.
What I still fail to understand is how can an obvious bug (1 seal reward for challenge) not be caught in Palantir for months while the place was under construction. It begs the question What are people really doing in the PPP?
We know by now that once content hits BR it's game over but no one tested before getting there? I just don't get it.
As others have already stated, do not compare it to the likes of RoF or Foundry. Even for Seals/Medallions/Marks it is more in line with School, Library, Annunimas, GB... not the newer instances. I would classify it as "beginner" instances. Meaning the loot isn't great, but it may be better then some quest reward pieces.Good for fresh level 75s too. It would be nice if it had some good loot though obviously.
Not even, the loot isn't even as good as regular quest rewards.
And Lib/School at least had superior marks, this has no benefit at all. You literally get almost 0 seals, and the items are completely useless.
I'm all for quality over loot, but there's got to be some incentive to run it.
As others have already stated, do not compare it to the likes of RoF or Foundry. Even for Seals/Medallions/Marks it is more in line with School, Library, Annunimas, GB... not the newer instances. I would classify it as "beginner" instances. Meaning the loot isn't great, but it may be better then some quest reward pieces.Good for fresh level 75s too. It would be nice if it had some good loot though obviously.
When was the last time anyone at level cap asked to run any of the other scaled instances? If you are a fresh 75 why would you be running content that doesn't give you the barter currency to get good gear. There is no reason fresh 75s with a mix of quest/crafted gear can't go into RoF or Foundry to work toward their Dragon set. I have taken people through ToO T1 with just quest gear. If I am helping kinnies gear up I am going to get them into runs that help them get it at a good pace.
They revamped Fornost to get people to use the space that has sat empty for a few years now. The group of players that run the most instanced content is level cap players, so if you revamp a space to scale to the level cap, if you want it used, there has to be a reason for people to run it more than once or twice. This is not a new complaint from the player base, it has been going on since Mirkwood. Scaled instances were run a ton when they were the source of getting good gear (S3Ms and S4Ms), once that was taken away the original scaled instances stopped being used by the level cap community.
You can't fault the player base for being disappointed in a "new" instance cluster that adds no value to end game. I was excited about Fornost, and having a larger pool to choose from to run with my kin to help gear people up, now I wish that development time had been spent on content that Turbine deemed worthy of good loot.
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What I still fail to understand is how can an obvious bug (1 seal reward for challenge) not be caught in Palantir for months while the place was under construction. It begs the question What are people really doing in the PPP?
We know by now that once content hits BR it's game over but no one tested before getting there? I just don't get it.
Cheers
Ensuring the challenge works functionally and letting the itemization sort out how much to reward later, I suspect
A while back a developer noted that they had developed technology to quickly tweak the Mark/Medallion/Seal rewards in all instances to keep the interest levels balanced. As far as I know there has been very little tweaking however. Another system developed and forgotten?
A while back a developer noted that they had developed technology to quickly tweak the Mark/Medallion/Seal rewards in all instances to keep the interest levels balanced. As far as I know there has been very little tweaking however. Another system developed and forgotten?
Perhaps another system developed and later found to be buggy.
Like I told you... What I said...Steal your face right off your head.
A while back a developer noted that they had developed technology to quickly tweak the Mark/Medallion/Seal rewards in all instances to keep the interest levels balanced. As far as I know there has been very little tweaking however. Another system developed and forgotten?
Just like they said they have tech to adjust skills to work differently in normal pve and in ettenmoors, don't see much of that.
just adding my voice to the chorus - there absolutely should be an alignment of the seal reward between this and the isen cluster 6-person instances. They are comparable in length and difficulty; without this, there is simply no incentive to run this at end game which is unfortunate, because they're fun spaces.
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This purple gear and this 1 seal per challenge (and precious few medallions) seems to be WAI. Its the Intentions that are flawed.
We've got a cluster of scaled instances that are supposed to represent some sort of step between questing and running the isen instances. Sch/Lib/HoN/IoF. GB/Annuminas. All these are generally easier than isen instances, and they offer lesser rewards accordingly. Now they've added Fornost to the ranks of these instances.
The problem is this step between questing and Isen instances is often skipped. As others have stated, you can reasonably go from questing to Foundry T1 or something. Having this step in gearing serves little purpose. Thats the root of the problem. Fornost having bad loot stems from the devs wanting to have that unnecessary loot step.
Completed all t2 and challenges also and the loot is garbage. All purple and stats are under 60 on most with 150 morale. A few of the t2 challenges are tough for the junk loot that you get.
I did the challenge quest tier2 in Fornost today and all we got was some ###### purple earring... So I agree with you that the challenge quests should drop some nice teals - even if they have to borrow from other instances to make it happen.
Devs are terrible. I don't know if they are just on too strict of deadlines or if they have no common sense whatsoever. Why scale an instance an have no reason to run it. The game is already dying and it's death is accelerating with the lag issues and the lack of vision from the devs.
I'm not surprised this turned out terrible. But, I would have figured they would figure out by now people don't run instances that have no decent rewards. This will just be another excuse for them to delay scaling up other instances. "Oh, lotro players don't respond well to scaled old instances" they will say. I've heard that excuse from them before. If only they knew it was because they are TERRIBLE and lack ANY VISION when it comes to end-game content. If they want to stay viable in a growing world of creative mmo's they better wake up, learn how to create fun content, and learn that people won't play if there is no incentive.
For those of us who have beaten ToO, this game offers nothing. Sorry to say I'm done. Been trying to get them to wake up since Mirkwood, but alas they think they are too smart to listen to what their PLAYER BASE wants (Kinship Revamp Proposal). CYA LOTRO, maybe I'll come back to see Mordor some day (If the game still exists).
Devs are terrible. I don't know if they are just on too strict of deadlines or if they have no common sense whatsoever. Why scale an instance an have no reason to run it. The game is already dying and it's death is accelerating with the lag issues and the lack of vision from the devs.
I'm not surprised this turned out terrible. But, I would have figured they would figure out by now people don't run instances that have no decent rewards. This will just be another excuse for them to delay scaling up other instances. "Oh, lotro players don't respond well to scaled old instances" they will say. I've heard that excuse from them before. If only they knew it was because they are TERRIBLE and lack ANY VISION when it comes to end-game content. If they want to stay viable in a growing world of creative mmo's they better wake up, learn how to create fun content, and learn that people won't play if there is no incentive.
For those of us who have beaten ToO, this game offers nothing. Sorry to say I'm done. Been trying to get them to wake up since Mirkwood, but alas they think they are too smart to listen to what their PLAYER BASE wants (Kinship Revamp Proposal). CYA LOTRO, maybe I'll come back to see Mordor some day (If the game still exists).
I agree with most of what you say. The devs deffinitely seemed to have been lazy and uninspired with this latest update. I hope they step up their game for Rohan.
The Great River update was pretty cool and I enjoyed it a lot. This latest one however.... not so much.
Adding competitive loot would be preferred, but at the very least seal/medallion drops need to be on par with other lvl 75 instances.
I would say the opposite. I would not like to see scaled instances give loot that is equal or better to the instances designed for the current level cap, or else they have further excuse to give us 1 new 6 man instance a year (read: THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, TURBINE). Competitive currency rewards would be the optimal payout for scaled instances, with perhaps the odd piece of gear with unusual stat combinations that strictly speaking aren't "best" but might be interesting depending on build. run the new stuff for the new best gear, then you have the old stuff as options for currency needs. for that to work though, they need to give us more, and more untrivial, 6 man content
I agree that any instance that scales to 75 should drop loot comparable to other level 75 instances when run at that level, otherwise where is the incentive ro run it after the first time just to see it? Maybe they don't want us to be able to get TOO many medallions and seals each day, so the grind won't go too quickly? It would be nice to see something other than Roots and Foundry, and the occasional Isengard 3-man being run for these things. Helegrod, School/Library, Annuminas, GB, Halls, Inn, and Fornost need to be brought up to speed so people will want to run them again and add some variety to the grind. It should be very telling that nobody runs these at level cap anymore so soon after they put all the work into revamping and scaling them.
Originally Posted by tomiathon
I would say the opposite. I would not like to see scaled instances give loot that is equal or better to the instances designed for the current level cap,
Instances scaled to 75 are designed for level 75. I really don't care if some people find them easier than the 75-only runs, they are still designed for level 75. I personally find Foundry and Roots to be much easier than some of the scaled level 75s.
Last edited by Celebrawn; Jun 15 2012 at 03:17 PM.
I ran the revamped Fornost soon after release for the deed and didn't go back until last night, when I went to help a friend complete *their* deed.
It was a reminder of just what a spectacular mess Turbine made of this revamp.
I don't mean the instance itself. The instance is great. It's fabulous to look at, it's an absolutely iconic Middle-Earth location, the boss fights are interesting, the atmosphere of the place is great. A little too long in parts perhaps, but that's a personal view.
What is so sad is that so much effort would go into updating such a fantastic instance, making it awesome, then utterly, totally, completely failing on the rewards. The seals/medallions awarded are wholly inadequate for the time and difficulty. The loot drops are hilariously, jaw-droppingly inadequate. I don't understand how anyone can ever have considered that players would continue to run such a long and (in places) hard instance for such hopeless rewards. Once for novelty, twice for deeds, three times for fun ... that's it *at best*.
If this is what future instance scaling is going to entail then I urge Turbine not to bother - it's not worth the developer time. I understand the desire to incentivise running the newest instance cluster, but a reward disparity as great as currently exists between the scaled instances and the Isengard cluster renders scaled instances (and, indeed, skirmishes) a complete waste of resources.
Great post, and sadly true. Mark and medallions being attached to instances are good in a way. If you run an instance and you dont get the drop you were after its not the end of the world as you have gained something. Likewise even if you just go along to an instance to help out you are still being rewarded with something. The trouble is Fornost has ZERO desirable loot. I bet no one has ever run a fornost wing becuase they are after a specific drop.
Turbine does not want to make scaled instances to be as good as new ones (in terms of loot).
If you buy one instance, and you know that every time level cap goes up it will be scaled with scaled loot, where is the incentive to buy the new instances? You can just run over and over the one instance you have bought 3 years ago.
If you buy one instance, and you know that every time level cap goes up it will be scaled with scaled loot, where is the incentive to buy the new instances?
That would be an argument for not scaling old instances at all - a perfectly logical argument in fact. What makes no sense is to invest significant developer time (which costs money) in a revamp like Fornost which no-one runs more than once. Hence my suggestion that Turbine don't bother with scaling old instances if the loot/rewards are going to be so terrible. That developer time would be better spent creating new instances.
If they would just put an above average amount of marks/Medallions in the loot problem would be mostly solved. (By above average means as compared to time to run ROF/Foundry etc.)
Then one could run ROF/Foundry for item loot and Run old scalables (Fornost/Barrow/School/library etc..) for standard barter and to remove the boredom of running 25 Foundries in a row.
As an added bonus maybe (highly unlikely but maybe) get some more ppl unsing the IF too.
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