Thread: Update 7 -- absolutely NO Hunter changes

Read for yourselves -- http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Updat...Past,_Official

This is just outrageous. I hope Riders of Rohan brings at least a few changes from the many Hunters need.

If after that, Hunters are getting out dpsed by Burglars (or any other non-dps class) then we will make appropriate changes. -- Zombie_Columbus

Quit while you still can. RoR will bring nothing good for us.

Yes, so what?

It's not like the other classes are getting anything brand new, more like addressing problems and giving us fixes or making adjustments. There's nothing in particular that's a problem, or exceedingly wrong with the hunter class right now that needs to be adjusted or fixed. Guardians didn't get anything adjusted either.

Don't fix what ain't broke, if you ask me.

I realy dont know what the fuss is about. I love my hunter. He does his job just fine. Its such and easy class to play and leve.
IMO not much wrong with it atm except some silly skills we got with RoI. I use my hunter to do all new content we get before running my RK through it and he never has any issues. SO why do we need anything messed with?

Yeah, not much surprise there. I do think that a hunter should be by far the single highest single target dps class. That's certainly not the case and it hasn't been for quite some time. The hunter is easy and fun and I guess that's enough for me to keep mine leveled and raid ready.

I think its cause there are too many hunters. If they make it as strong as it should be there would be even more draw to them and it would throw off the games balance.

Anyone else noticing RoA crits are not resetting Split Shot cd?

HAHAHAHAH

They added Fire/Light-oil effects to Split Shot and Blood Arrow and managed to f*ck up Arrow Storm trait on the reset Split Shot cd part when oil is applied

EDIT: Faron set bonus seems bugged too when oil is applied, hahahah

Utterly pathetic!

Another issue I have just come across, when running or moving at all, the purple glow on my bow from the title scroll (seems to only apply to first ages) seems to not stick to the bow and is bouncing around like crazy whenever I move around, and it is most definitely the most annoying thing ever to sit and stare at all day oh well.

Um...They kinda explain like 2 weeks ago the changes. Why are you just now angry?

Hunters don't need change. We are great. We don't need no Obama care.

Here's a change that will affect some hunters.

Update 6/6.1 Weapons on the left, Update 7 Weapons on the right.

I personally was using the Polished Great River Axe of Reckoning. Ugh. I sure hope this is a bug. Sapience has been avoiding any mention of it though so it may not be considered one.

Originally Posted by Elrantiri

HAHAHAHAH

They added Fire/Light-oil effects to Split Shot and Blood Arrow and managed to f*ck up Arrow Storm trait on the reset Split Shot cd part when oil is applied

EDIT: Faron set bonus seems bugged too when oil is applied, hahahah

Utterly pathetic!

Only Split seems to be affected by lack of cd reset - both on trait and Faron set, RoA resets work fine w/ oils, probably that name change runs deeper than it was supposed to ... unlike Blood Arrow new names, these seem to work with Faron Fleetness bonus.

We all might consider switching to "no updates/fixes necessary" camp just to ensure we have QS & ISB available after RoR

Originally Posted by Shredex

Um...They kinda explain like 2 weeks ago the changes. Why are you just now angry?

Hunters don't need change. We are great. We don't need no Obama care.

Thing is we DID get changes. The changes suck.

Real sweet of the devs to give us useless changes that they didn't even mention in patch notes. Oh, and more bugs. Still haven't fixed the others I see

Ahh yes, WHO DOESN'T love stealth changes?

The Pros: Fire and Light Oil FINALLY...FINALLY affect Blood Arrow and Split Shot, oh and Split Shot induction has been reduced to QS instead of Barbed levels.

The Cons: Light being applied to Split Shot bugs out the reset ability.

Also, the fact that the glowy cosmetic from the weapon titles seem to be ghosting behind the bow on movement, so now it looks like I have a regular bow followed around by it's Oathbreaker buddy when I'm shooting.



Notice the blue glow following the bow around? Yeah, I'm blaming that and the fact that the stupid weapons bounce on our characters now for increased lag. Servers don't need extra, unnecessary animations to deal with, kthx.

One small change I noticed today is when I ported to Galtrev I landed in the village instead of outside the gate.

Originally Posted by ddave

One small change I noticed today is when I ported to Galtrev I landed in the village instead of outside the gate.

Yep. Thorin's port has been changed as well. I think the Bree one may have been changed, too.

Originally Posted by Bond007

Real sweet of the devs to give us useless changes that they didn't even mention in patch notes. Oh, and more bugs. Still haven't fixed the others I see

Kinda makes you wonder what the point of BR is if stuff isn't even in patch notes. I never even bothered to log my hunter seeing as nothing was listed, hard to find bugs if you never look.

People actually use Split-Shot? O_o

Funny to read this thread today since I cancelled both my subscriptions yesterday.


Its interesting to me to see some people say the hunter is in a fine place. The hunter really lacks its own little niche or combat specialty. Its amazing to see hunters parse good single target DPS numbers and be OK with parsing similar numbers to champs, RKs, heck even some crazy burgs. All those classes are solid DPSers, but offer so much more in addition. Champs can AoE unlike any other class, burgs have excellent debuffs helping the group as a whole, and RKs have utility as both excellent healers and multi-type (fire/lightning) DPSers. The only specialty of the hunter is a 40m range. How often do you find yourself at 40m in PvE or in PvP? I can only think of a handful of cases.


I think hunters as a whole have accepted being average, and instead of requesting or even expecting the class to be developed, have settled for mediocre improvements. Consider Split-Shot, the entire Trapper of Foes line, Hunter's Art, LI legacies, legendary traits/skills, etc. The potential is huge for the class to be dynamic and thoroughly useful. But instead we get new skills that are clunky, nearly useless, and lack any appearance of actual effort and time spent preparing. The class is squishy, which is fine, but additionally, due to inductions, the class becomes relatively immobile. This contributes to many hunters struggling mightily in the Moors.


We have a developer who's been lambasted by a large majority of the community, myself included. I wish ZC would communicate better with us, but I do not fault him for not wanting to step into the fire nor giving little effort to the class. I think a new set of eyes and ears could really benefit the class as a whole, but unfortunately, I can't make any decisions like that.


I don't want to play a game that I don't enjoy, and I really don't enjoy the hunter currently. I try my best to play the class to its fullest extent in both PvE and PvP. When I have to play the class at its peak just to remain competitive, imo there is a problem. So, until the class gets some much needed work and productive development, I really can't keep paying for something I don't enjoy.

Yes, people actually use Split Shot.

I've noticed that the Induction reduction I spoke of earlier, only happens when you apply oil.



Notice the Induction difference?

Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr

Funny to read this thread today since I cancelled both my subscriptions yesterday.


Its interesting to me to see some people say the hunter is in a fine place. The hunter really lacks its own little niche or combat specialty. Its amazing to see hunters parse good single target DPS numbers and be OK with parsing similar numbers to champs, RKs, heck even some crazy burgs. All those classes are solid DPSers, but offer so much more in addition. Champs can AoE unlike any other class, burgs have excellent debuffs helping the group as a whole, and RKs have utility as both excellent healers and multi-type (fire/lightning) DPSers. The only specialty of the hunter is a 40m range. How often do you find yourself at 40m in PvE or in PvP? I can only think of a handful of cases.


I think hunters as a whole have accepted being average, and instead of requesting or even expecting the class to be developed, have settled for mediocre improvements. Consider Split-Shot, the entire Trapper of Foes line, Hunter's Art, LI legacies, legendary traits/skills, etc. The potential is huge for the class to be dynamic and thoroughly useful. But instead we get new skills that are clunky, nearly useless, and lack any appearance of actual effort and time spent preparing. The class is squishy, which is fine, but additionally, due to inductions, the class becomes relatively immobile. This contributes to many hunters struggling mightily in the Moors.


We have a developer who's been lambasted by a large majority of the community, myself included. I wish ZC would communicate better with us, but I do not fault him for not wanting to step into the fire nor giving little effort to the class. I think a new set of eyes and ears could really benefit the class as a whole, but unfortunately, I can't make any decisions like that.


I don't want to play a game that I don't enjoy, and I really don't enjoy the hunter currently. I try my best to play the class to its fullest extent in both PvE and PvP. When I have to play the class at its peak just to remain competitive, imo there is a problem. So, until the class gets some much needed work and productive development, I really can't keep paying for something I don't enjoy.

Yes, I love being the supposed top DPS class, but find in raids that burgs/champs are parsing just as good and in many cases even better. AND they have much better agro management! Somehow...I'll be parsing less dps and I'LL be the one to get agro, even with beneath notice and threat book in.

Originally Posted by Shredex

People actually use Split-Shot? O_o

If it wasn't for the forums I would have never known there were these changes made, since SplitShot is not in my toolbar. The induction seems more like a bug since it only applies to oils and was not listed at all, though it clearly is a class specific change. I wonder why they bothered with it, I'd rather see Heartseeker changing with oils, or traps at that.

But since this is what we have now, and I can not really be bothered to log on at this time of night, could someone dish out some numbers concerning Split Shot and QS, damagewise? Does QS deal more damage? Might it be more useful to add SS to this rotation every ten seconds? Though due to AoE restricitions and the legacies and trait buffs to QS I wonder why anyone would really bother to put it into the skillbar again.

Originally Posted by VincentVanPort

If it wasn't for the forums I would have never known there were these changes made, since SplitShot is not in my toolbar. The induction seems more like a bug since it only applies to oils and was not listed at all, though it clearly is a class specific change. I wonder why they bothered with it, I'd rather see Heartseeker changing with oils, or traps at that.

But since this is what we have now, and I can not really be bothered to log on at this time of night, could someone dish out some numbers concerning Split Shot and QS, damagewise? Does QS deal more damage? Might it be more useful to add SS to this rotation every ten seconds? Though due to AoE restricitions and the legacies and trait buffs to QS I wonder why anyone would really bother to put it into the skillbar again.

I use it for AoE situations if RoA fails to crit in hope to reset RoA cooldown.

With the lower induction now I might consider have a AoE rotation with RoA - SS - RoA - SS because you need to wait 1 second for RoA cd reset anyway.

QS still does about 100 more dmg in my case and if you're not sure SS will hit more than one target I'd take QS over it any day.

Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr

Funny to read this thread today since I cancelled both my subscriptions yesterday.


Its interesting to me to see some people say the hunter is in a fine place. The hunter really lacks its own little niche or combat specialty. Its amazing to see hunters parse good single target DPS numbers and be OK with parsing similar numbers to champs, RKs, heck even some crazy burgs. All those classes are solid DPSers, but offer so much more in addition. Champs can AoE unlike any other class, burgs have excellent debuffs helping the group as a whole, and RKs have utility as both excellent healers and multi-type (fire/lightning) DPSers. The only specialty of the hunter is a 40m range. How often do you find yourself at 40m in PvE or in PvP? I can only think of a handful of cases.


I think hunters as a whole have accepted being average, and instead of requesting or even expecting the class to be developed, have settled for mediocre improvements. Consider Split-Shot, the entire Trapper of Foes line, Hunter's Art, LI legacies, legendary traits/skills, etc. The potential is huge for the class to be dynamic and thoroughly useful. But instead we get new skills that are clunky, nearly useless, and lack any appearance of actual effort and time spent preparing. The class is squishy, which is fine, but additionally, due to inductions, the class becomes relatively immobile. This contributes to many hunters struggling mightily in the Moors.


We have a developer who's been lambasted by a large majority of the community, myself included. I wish ZC would communicate better with us, but I do not fault him for not wanting to step into the fire nor giving little effort to the class. I think a new set of eyes and ears could really benefit the class as a whole, but unfortunately, I can't make any decisions like that.


I don't want to play a game that I don't enjoy, and I really don't enjoy the hunter currently. I try my best to play the class to its fullest extent in both PvE and PvP. When I have to play the class at its peak just to remain competitive, imo there is a problem. So, until the class gets some much needed work and productive development, I really can't keep paying for something I don't enjoy.

I have complained about this for a long time. They say the squeaky wheel get the grease; I just didn't know that they would bend me over to give it to me! I can say that I agree with your post in its entirety!

The hunter is allegedly inspired by Legolas; and that is where any resemblance ends. Methinks the developers consider Legolas to be a weak punk when it comes to melee...

Anybody that goes to the Moors will tell you that PVP doesn't happen from a range of 40m. Once the initial burst dps has taken place the reavers, defilers, wargs, and even the stinking BAs are in your face and melee ensues. The new buffs and stances on wargs, spiders, and the evade and MT skills of the BAs makes the hunter a weak link in the chain of pvp events. I have noticed that even the spiders get a buff that makes my melee skills a sad joke as they, and the wargs, are able to evade almost all my melee skills as well as the improved scourging blow/barbed arrow combination.

At best, the hunter is now nothing more than a support class for raids, with our heightened senses (that doesn't work half the time). I have heightened senses traited, can track nature; have zero nature on track, and still get pounced by a warg that doesn't appear on track. Spiders cannot be tracked when burrowed...So much for the heightened senses working properly.

Split shot is worthless...I don't even have it on my skills bar.

Heart seeker; "This shot cannot miss, nor can your target block, parry, or evade it". Total hogwash!!! I don't know how many times I have shot a BA with his evade up, or bubbled, and have had my heart seeker evaded. I note that the developers were kind enough to fix a bug in other classes that was allowing their skills to be evaded...good for them; sadly the hunters didn't even rate this much help. I have heard of hunters one-shotting creeps but have never done this myself...not that I want too be that op as it cheapens the game.

Audacity; I can't believe they actually have the "audacity" to try this band aid fix. Thanks for allowing me to live 2 seconds longer in the Moors (*note to developers;this is intended to be sarcasm).

There are other problems that could be discussed to no avail...The devs don't give a defilers backside about customer satisfaction of those who play the hunter class, especially in pvp.

I think the hunter developer, as well as the pvp developer, are strangely silent because they know they have done their dead level best to screw the hunters, and keep hunters on the bottom rung of the improvement ladder. The only improvements we get appear to be band-aids aimed at appeasing the pve players. The number of hunters in the Moors has gotten lower as players have rolled the OP freep classes in lieu of the hunter class.

I love my hunter and will continue to play the hunter in hopes of some major upgrades. Those who actually think this is an easy class must not pvp very much, and must spend their time pew-pewing in pve...

Originally Posted by Eckenbrand

Yes, people actually use Split Shot.

So you are the one?

And you're surprised?

I believe the reason that Split Shot has the same induction as Quick Shot with oil applied and doesn't reset properly, is that the game somehow believes the skill is actually Quick Shot...or, at least partly Quick Shot in some sense. Enough that it shares the induction and won't reset while under the effects of oil.

Personally, I hope they apply the Quick Shot induction to Split Shot permanently with all of the other benefits that it applies.

But, a hundred silver says that they'll "fix" the induction on the oiled form while still leaving the bugged reset and somehow bug Quick Shot in the process.

Originally Posted by Lasagabaster

So you are the one?

Yes, I use Split Shot in AoE situations if I don't crit on Rain of Arrows in an attempt to reset Rain of Arrows.

Originally Posted by Eckenbrand

Yes, people actually use Split Shot.

I've noticed that the Induction reduction I spoke of earlier, only happens when you apply oil.



Notice the Induction difference?

Surprised no one commented on the decreased damage output using light oil. Was that always that way?

I haven't had split shot in my toolbar for 20 some odd levels. I just never found a use for it.

For those saying they use Split Shot in hopes of resetting Rain of Arrows on a crit hit.....it doesn't work like that.

Read the tool-tip for Arrow Storm: "Scoring a critical hit with Rain of Arrows will reset it's cooldown as well as resetting the cooldown of Split Shot"

Nothing in there that says a critical hit with Split Shot will reset Rain of Arrows.

Originally Posted by Grhysli

For those saying they use Split Shot in hopes of resetting Rain of Arrows on a crit hit.....it doesn't work like that.

Read the tool-tip for Arrow Storm: "Scoring a critical hit with Rain of Arrows will reset it's cooldown as well as resetting the cooldown of Split Shot"

Nothing in there that says a critical hit with Split Shot will reset Rain of Arrows.

Faron 3 set bonus....

I'm giving them one more month and then cancelling my subscription. This is ridiculous.

Originally Posted by Lagnaf

The hunter is allegedly inspired by Legolas; and that is where any resemblance ends. Methinks the developers consider Legolas to be a weak punk when it comes to melee...

To his credit ZC did propose making us more meleetastic, in line with legolas (of the movies at least) but the suggestion was jumped on immediately by loads of hunters. I think that particularly in the moors this would have been very useful. Veteran pvp hunters will remember when we were more melee useful. It annoys me sometimes that the simple "moaaaar dps" single target pve brigade often win through so many times in the forums. Without much thought to rotations, pvp and situational builds.

Originally Posted by Lagnaf

Audacity; I can't believe they actually have the "audacity" to try this band aid fix. Thanks for allowing me to live 2 seconds longer in the Moors (*note to developers;this is intended to be sarcasm).

There are other problems that could be discussed to no avail...The devs don't give a defilers backside about customer satisfaction of those who play the hunter class, especially in pvp.

The number of hunters in the Moors has gotten lower as players have rolled the OP freep classes in lieu of the hunter class.

I love my hunter and will continue to play the hunter in hopes of some major upgrades. Those who actually think this is an easy class must not pvp very much, and must spend their time pew-pewing in pve...

Yup the hunter in the moors is a real pain. Its sad that the zerg pew pew bunch can get far more renown than the solo or small group hunter. I'd like a trait line that helped me survive better 1v1 and deliver some melee punch. Im basically in kamakazi mode in solo/small group a lot of the time just to get some comms. A creep friend told me that since some freep classes have become harder to kill hunters have become an even more attractive creep target ! However get me in a good group with some serious heals and I can shine. But again thats single target pew pew and ofc in a big ruckus good heals are often far and in between. I dont think there is a single class freep or creep that dies so easily as us in the moors.

I found a change! They Nerfed the living &$@" out of the crafted great river weapons. Don't recall seeing this in patch notes

Originally Posted by DRad123

I found a change! They Nerfed the living &$@" out of the crafted great river weapons. Don't recall seeing this in patch notes

Others found it as well
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...67#post6168867

Originally Posted by Martigan

To his credit ZC did propose making us more meleetastic, in line with legolas (of the movies at least) but the suggestion was jumped on immediately by loads of hunters. I think that particularly in the moors this would have been very useful. Veteran pvp hunters will remember when we were more melee useful. It annoys me sometimes that the simple "moaaaar dps" single target pve brigade often win through so many times in the forums. Without much thought to rotations, pvp and situational builds.

Hah, my impression was that significant part of the rage was generated by the fact entire idea was reduced to "bow & blade warrior" - not exactly clear, isn't it. So, predictably, people imagined their own version and - not surprisingly either - didn't like it. Then we *finally* learnt what was that about (which was quite interesting, a chance to finally rework many of our self-rooting skills) and it was not going to be implemented because... because people raged about it. Not knowing what it was because it was too hard to use more than three words >.<

Yeah, right, it was scrapped because people raged.

By that logic entire class should be scrapped judging from the amount of qq we generated during 20011/2012 :P

Originally Posted by Ferthcott

Hah, my impression was that significant part of the rage was generated by the fact entire idea was reduced to "bow & blade warrior" - not exactly clear, isn't it. So, predictably, people imagined their own version and - not surprisingly either - didn't like it. Then we *finally* learnt what was that about (which was quite interesting, a chance to finally rework many of our self-rooting skills) and it was not going to be implemented because... because people raged about it. Not knowing what it was because it was too hard to use more than three words >.<

Yeah, right, it was scrapped because people raged.

By that logic entire class should be scrapped judging from the amount of qq we generated during 20011/2012 :P

Now where exactly did we "learnt" about this? I dont recall reading anything useful about the bow and blade hunter from ZC.

Originally Posted by Elrantiri

Now where exactly did we "learnt" about this? I dont recall reading anything useful about the bow and blade hunter from ZC.

Because it was just that: "bow & blade" XD


I recall there was a post about mele skills charging ranged skills with higher damage output and the other way around, but that's all I remember - and I remember this because seeing something like that made me both interested and pissed off it wasn't mentioned properly.

Edit: here, post with actual details, but soooo bloody late >.<

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...87#post5380587

Originally Posted by Ferthcott

Because it was just that: "bow & blade" XD


I recall there was a post about mele skills charging ranged skills with higher damage output and the other way around, but that's all I remember - and I remember this because seeing something like that made me both interested and pissed off it wasn't mentioned properly.

Not that I'm all that into defending ZC, but I feel I should play fair... It wasn't mentioned properly because IT WAS A HINT!

Do you know what a hint is? Look it up if you do not. That's all it was, a sneak preview, a tidbit, a teaser. It was mentioned properly. There was to be more details to come but the hunter community, as usual, acted like a bunch of butt holes. Still pisses me off.

Now, does that mean ZC responded to it in a professional manner? Nope, he negative route too and then ran away cause the negativity roar he got back in return was more than he could handle. But it's bs to blame ZC for anything regarding that initial communication for the ROI hunter. Blame him instead for what happened after.