Just because you go off on a tangent because you don’t like me pointing out that my Dwarf has, up to the point of entering Lorien, done more than Gimli the Dwarf, doesn’t mean that I am going to follow you.
It’s a common tactic. When proven wrong, change the subject and hope that others don’t notice.
The only thing that's going on here is you missing the point. It doesn't matter that your guy's done more than Gimli. Gimli was allowed into Lorien only because he was with the Fellowship. There are only two people whom the Elves really recognise, Legolas for being a fellow Elf, and Aragorn because he really is somebody special and he's already in Galadriel's good books.
The only thing that's going on here is you missing the point. It doesn't matter that your guy's done more than Gimli. Gimli was allowed into Lorien only because he was with the Fellowship. There are only two people whom the Elves really recognise, Legolas for being a fellow Elf, and Aragorn because he really is somebody special and he's already in Galadriel's good books.
And my Dwarf is a special friend of the fellowship.
"what you assert, you must prove"
“opinions; by definition, could be right or wrong”
“unless stated otherwise; everything I say is an opinion”
Was he a nobody? Or had they heard of him? We don't know. For all we know, they could have stories of the Men of Gondor and its Captains circulating. But they may not trust him due to his father being power-hungry. If nothing else, Aragorn could well have told stories about Denethor and his... Crankiness from the time he spent in Gondor 50-odd years earlier.
The fact is that very little of what Tolkien wrote sets anything in stone.
Elves and Men were estranged, and those Elves were the most isolated of the lot (even being largely cut off from their own kind). And going by what Lindir said to Bilbo in Rivendell, Elves might have been largely disinterested in mortals to begin with. Understandable, as from their point of view mortals would come and go so fast - it'd be a rare individual indeed who'd spark their interest. Aragorn, for example.
The only thing that's going on here is you missing the point. It doesn't matter that your guy's done more than Gimli. Gimli was allowed into Lorien only because he was with the Fellowship. There are only two people whom the Elves really recognise, Legolas for being a fellow Elf, and Aragorn because he really is somebody special and he's already in Galadriel's good books.
Celeborn and Galadriel though would likely recognise Frodo, Boromir and perhaps Gimli by reputation though. The border guards? Highly unlikely, but they are in contact with Rivendell & Elrond, so would have heard of Gandalf's jaunt a few years back with Bilbo, and would also likely have heard that the old boy had moved to Rivendell leaving his nephew in The Shire. Perhaps they even knew that Gandalf suspected that he was holding onto The Ring. Boromir was the heir to the Stewardship to the greatest Kingdom (without a King) of Men in the near or distant area - They'd be complete idiots not to know who he was. And they may well have heard of Gloin & Gimli the same way they likely knew of Frodo... Or perhaps through Thranduil. After all, the Dwarves of the Lonely Mountain were undoubtedly crafting new toys and arms for Mirkwood, which I'm sure they would have liked to show off, and Gimli was the son of a major Lord/Hero of the Lonely Mountain.
... Not to mention that they got messages about the whole Fellowship from Elrond - Likely with detailed descriptions and possibly pictures (After all, Rivendell is described as a sort of artistic haven amongst other things)... I still say the fact they didn't inform the guards of them is complete lunacy...
The fact that going strictly by Tolkien's writings no-one from one kindom talks to anyone from another, and they all live in near complete isolation from each other simply wouldn't work in any form of real-life. If nothing else, know thy potential enemy. One major flaw in Tolkien's writing.
Not to mention that they got messages about the whole Fellowship from Elrond - Likely with detailed descriptions and possibly pictures (After all, Rivendell is described as a sort of artistic haven amongst other things).
Yep, and our characters are special friends of Elrond, having done extensive service to him prior to arriving at Lorien.
"what you assert, you must prove"
“opinions; by definition, could be right or wrong”
“unless stated otherwise; everything I say is an opinion”
Celeborn and Galadriel though would likely recognise Frodo, Boromir and perhaps Gimli by reputation though. The border guards? Highly unlikely, but they are in contact with Rivendell & Elrond, so would have heard of Gandalf's jaunt a few years back with Bilbo, and would also likely have heard that the old boy had moved to Rivendell leaving his nephew in The Shire.
Bilbo and Frodo would only be of any interest because they were or had been Ring-bearers. That's what would make them worthy of Galadriel's attention. I mean, really - she's something like fourteen thousand years old, if I remember rightly. That's got to give someone a very different perspective to that of mortals. I don't see why Galadriel should know anything about Boromir.
Perhaps they even knew that Gandalf suspected that he was holding onto The Ring. Boromir was the heir to the Stewardship to the greatest Kingdom (without a King) of Men in the near or distant area - They'd be complete idiots not to know who he was. And they may well have heard of Gloin & Gimli the same way they likely knew of Frodo... Or perhaps through Thranduil. After all, the Dwarves of the Lonely Mountain were undoubtedly crafting new toys and arms for Mirkwood, which I'm sure they would have liked to show off, and Gimli was the son of a major Lord/Hero of the Lonely Mountain.
Again, if what Lindir said was typical then mortals might have come to seem interchangeable, all alike, after thousands of years. Elrond evidently took a much closer personal interest in the affairs of the world in general, but we're not talking about him. He didn't live in a closed land, after all: Rivendell was rather welcoming.
The fact that going strictly by Tolkien's writings no-one from one kindom talks to anyone from another, and they all live in near complete isolation from each other simply wouldn't work in any form of real-life. If nothing else, know thy potential enemy. One major flaw in Tolkien's writing.
I agree with that in general, but Lorien was supposed to be isolated even by those standards. That could only have been because Galadriel wanted it that way.
Last edited by Radhruin_EU; May 20 2012 at 06:37 PM.
Bilbo and Frodo would only be of any interest because they were or had been Ring-bearers. That's what would make them worthy of Galadriel's attention. I mean, really - she's something like fourteen thousand years old, if I remember rightly. That's got to give someone a very different perspective to that of mortals. I don't see why Galadriel should know anything about Boromir.
Now Rad is trying to tell us what would be of interest to Galadriel. Did she tell you this? She has already involved herself in affairs outside of her land by allowing the fellowship and (gasp) a Dwarf into Lorien. So naturally it follows that she would have no interest in finding out everything she could that would involve keeping Sauron from eating the world. She certainly can best advise the fellowship on what to do next by isolating herself from affairs in the outside world. Your level of critical thinking is astounding.
Last edited by RKL; May 20 2012 at 10:07 PM.
"what you assert, you must prove"
“opinions; by definition, could be right or wrong”
“unless stated otherwise; everything I say is an opinion”
The only thing that's going on here is you missing the point. It doesn't matter that your guy's done more than Gimli. Gimli was allowed into Lorien only because he was with the Fellowship. There are only two people whom the Elves really recognise, Legolas for being a fellow Elf, and Aragorn because he really is somebody special and he's already in Galadriel's good books.
I think a lot of folks are missing the point.
After what they did in Moria, is anyone really concerned that the Lorien changes are lore breaking?
Galadriel has no interest in anything but Lorien. She only allowed the fellowship into Lorien as a favor to Elrond.
Her thinking is; “I would help if I could but that would involve having to expand the scope of my thinking beyond my borders and that would be too much work. Good luck to you all, but you are on your own, and after every other land is conquered we will sneak past the enemy and depart on our ships. May Iluvatar have mercy on you.”
"what you assert, you must prove"
“opinions; by definition, could be right or wrong”
“unless stated otherwise; everything I say is an opinion”
Bilbo and Frodo would only be of any interest because they were or had been Ring-bearers. That's what would make them worthy of Galadriel's attention. I mean, really - she's something like fourteen thousand years old, if I remember rightly. That's got to give someone a very different perspective to that of mortals. I don't see why Galadriel should know anything about Boromir.
If what Lindir said was typical then mortals might have come to seem interchangeable, all alike, after thousands of years. Elrond evidently took a much closer personal interest in the affairs of the world in general, but we're not talking about him. He didn't live in a closed land, after all: Rivendell was rather welcoming.
Lindir is not a Head of State, C&G are. For all we know, Lindir's job could be nothing more than 'Assistant to the cowherder', and he has an intellect to match. What you're suggesting, is more akin to... The Emperor of Japan (An isolated family, if not country) not knowing who Prince Charles (The offspring of a major powers Head of State) is (Though as both examples here are ceremonial figureheads, this is a fairly poor example). So whilst he may be a good example of what Haldir was thinking, proclaiming his opinion's to be the same as those of Elfie royalty is likely ludicrous.
What you're suggesting, is more akin to... The Emperor of Japan (An isolated family, if not country) not knowing who Prince Charles (The offspring of a major powers Head of State) is (Though as both examples here are ceremonial figureheads, this is a fairly poor example).
Actually for an age without any developed communication media, it wouldnt be surprising if that would be the case....if it were not for electronic media or even crude methods of communication, I very much doubt many kingdoms would even know of each other's existance, let alone identify or know every member of their royal family by sight.....
There are plenty of people who are passionate about both sides of the argument.
Why not put in a dwarven or human people smuggler at the outskirts of Lorien who can for a price or a 5 min quest give all those people who want to bypass doing Lorien entry rep a way to instantly get to the other side of Lorien or Mirkwood where they can click on the stable master and never ever step into Lorien if they so choose.
Problem solved and both sides can have a smiley face.
Now Rad is trying to tell us what would be of interest to Galadriel. Did she tell you this? She has already involved herself in affairs outside of her land by allowing the fellowship and (gasp) a Dwarf into Lorien. So naturally it follows that she would have no interest in finding out everything she could that would involve keeping Sauron from eating the world. She certainly can best advise the fellowship on what to do next by isolating herself from affairs in the outside world. Your level of critical thinking is astounding.
Galadriel lives in a land that's kept deliberately isolated from the rest of the world, it's even largely cut off from contact with other Elves. Don't bother arguing about that, it's in the book. She doesn't have dealings with Men as such: the Rohirrim only know of her from legend, in consequence, knowing no better (and in that legend, she's a sinister sorceress who entraps Men which indicates they don't know the 'real' Galadriel at all). She does not have any dealings with Gondor beyond the occasional traveller from there who's gone looking for Lorien - but Faramir says that people who've gone off seeking the place never come back.
While we're on the subject, Gondor had no dealings with Rivendell either - Boromir had to go looking for the place, because they no longer knew exactly where it was. They had no dealings with Elves at all, so far as we know, because Elves and Men had grown estranged from one another. Galadriel couldn't know any more about Gondor than Gandalf had told her or that Elrond had heard for himself via travellers' tales and passed on, whatever that might have been. Whatever else, as she doesn't engage directly with the world herself what she knows would necessarily be limited to what had filtered through to her, and couldn't be up to the minute either because it took time for despatches to make their way from Rivendell to Lorien.
That's the thing: if Galadriel has no dealings of her own with the outside world then she'd be dependent on Elrond and Gandalf to pass along the news, beyond what the Mirror showed her (which was only images, and could be tricky to interpret, and was hence limited). Elrond's different, he's very connected, very engaged with what's going on - and lo and behold, Rivendell is a very different place to Lorien.
Contend with that, if you like, but let's have no more of your snark. Lorien was very isolated, and that'd necessarily limit Galadriel's knowledge of the outside world. It's not as if she'd got her own ambassadors out there to tell her what was going on, and Lorien certainly didn't welcome travellers from far and wide.
Lindir is not a Head of State, C&G are. For all we know, Lindir's job could be nothing more than 'Assistant to the cowherder', and he has an intellect to match. What you're suggesting, is more akin to... The Emperor of Japan (An isolated family, if not country) not knowing who Prince Charles (The offspring of a major powers Head of State) is (Though as both examples here are ceremonial figureheads, this is a fairly poor example). So whilst he may be a good example of what Haldir was thinking, proclaiming his opinion's to be the same as those of Elfie royalty is likely ludicrous.
Lindir was almost certainly a minstrel, going by what his name means. He says that '...Mortals have not been our study. We have other business' so whatever else, it's not just him. And that's in Rivendell, the most welcoming bit of Elvendom there was.
Besides which, people like Galadriel who chose to live in closed, guarded lands didn't do so because they wanted to be fully engaged with the outside world. It's about keeping the outside world at bay, then.
Galadriel lives in a land that's kept deliberately isolated from the rest of the world, it's even largely cut off from contact with other Elves. Don't bother arguing about that, it's in the book. She doesn't have dealings with Men as such: the Rohirrim only know of her from legend, in consequence, knowing no better (and in that legend, she's a sinister sorceress who entraps Men which indicates they don't know the 'real' Galadriel at all). She does not have any dealings with Gondor beyond the occasional traveller from there who's gone looking for Lorien - but Faramir says that people who've gone off seeking the place never come back.
While we're on the subject, Gondor had no dealings with Rivendell either - Boromir had to go looking for the place, because they no longer knew exactly where it was. They had no dealings with Elves at all, so far as we know, because Elves and Men had grown estranged from one another. Galadriel couldn't know any more about Gondor than Gandalf had told her or that Elrond had heard for himself via travellers' tales and passed on, whatever that might have been. Whatever else, as she doesn't engage directly with the world herself what she knows would necessarily be limited to what had filtered through to her, and couldn't be up to the minute either because it took time for despatches to make their way from Rivendell to Lorien.
That's the thing: if Galadriel has no dealings of her own with the outside world then she'd be dependent on Elrond and Gandalf to pass along the news, beyond what the Mirror showed her (which was only images, and could be tricky to interpret, and was hence limited). Elrond's different, he's very connected, very engaged with what's going on - and lo and behold, Rivendell is a very different place to Lorien.
Contend with that, if you like, but let's have no more of your snark. Lorien was very isolated, and that'd necessarily limit Galadriel's knowledge of the outside world. It's not as if she'd got her own ambassadors out there to tell her what was going on, and Lorien certainly didn't welcome travellers from far and wide.
That's the thing: if Galadriel has no dealings of her own with the outside world
Where does Tolkien say that Galadriel had no dealings of her own with the outside world? I must have missed it.
It's not as if she'd got her own ambassadors out there
Where does Tolkien say that Galadriel had no ambassadors "out there”?
That's the thing: if Galadriel has no dealings of her own with the outside world then she'd be dependent on Elrond and Gandalf to pass along the news, beyond what the Mirror showed her (which was only images, and could be tricky to interpret, and was hence limited). Elrond's different, he's very connected, very engaged with what's going on - and lo and behold, Rivendell is a very different place to Lorien.
Then you write this paragraph. You say that Elrond is very connected and very engaged with what is going on and that Galadriel is reliant on Elrond and Gandalf for information. And then you say that Galadriel is unaware of what is going on. Do Gandalf and Elrond refuse to talk to Galadriel and tell her stuff? Have they had a falling out recently? Not to mention the fact that Arwen spends time in both Rivendell and Lorien. Does she travel alone between the two destinations or is there an escort of Elves to protect her on her journeys?
Don’t you ever get tired of perpetrating?
Another internet quote, since you insist that Galadriel had no dealings of her own with the outside world.
Galadriel mentions that she is the one who first brought together the White Council, of which Gandalf, Radagast, and Saruman are all members. She had wanted Gandalf the Gray to lead the Council, but that position went to Saruman. It's a shame that she was apparently overruled, since things might have been different in Isengard otherwise.
Your whole post is invalid since; once again, you have lied to us.
"what you assert, you must prove"
“opinions; by definition, could be right or wrong”
“unless stated otherwise; everything I say is an opinion”
Rad makes some un-thought-out assumptions. He knows that Lorien is isolated from people entering it. So, he assumes that means The Lord and Lady have isolated themselves from gathering information. We already know that Lorien Elves leave and return.
"what you assert, you must prove"
“opinions; by definition, could be right or wrong”
“unless stated otherwise; everything I say is an opinion”
Rad, since you are probably going to chastise me again for putting an un-pointed to quote from the internet in my last post, I have included one here to make up for it.
Where does Tolkien say that Galadriel had no dealings of her own with the outside world? I must have missed it.
Feel free to suggest how she has dealings with the surrounding lands when Lorien is a closed land, Men and Elves are estranged and the Elves of Lorien were even sundered from their kindred in Thranduil's kingdom. Elrond sends her messengers, sometimes; Gandalf probably drops in when he's in that neck of the woods. That's it, apparently. Haldir said 'We... do not willingly have dealings with any other folk.' And he should know, right? He's a Marchwarden, guarding the borders of that land is his job.
Where does Tolkien say that Galadriel had no ambassadors "out there”?
Where are they, then? Did Galadriel send an ambassador to the Council of Elrond? If not, why not?
Then you write this paragraph. You say that Elrond is very connected and very engaged with what is going on and that Galadriel is reliant on Elrond and Gandalf for information. And then you say that Galadriel is unaware of what is going on. Do Gandalf and Elrond refuse to talk to Galadriel and tell her stuff? Have they had a falling out recently? Not to mention the fact that Arwen spends time in both Rivendell and Lorien. Does she travel alone between the two destinations or is there an escort of Elves to protect her on her journeys?
I said that Galadriel appears to be at least partly dependent on Elrond and Gandalf for information. She doesn't go out and about (unlike Gandalf) and is anything but welcoming to travellers (unlike Elrond).
Don’t you ever get tired of perpetrating?
Whatever that's supposed to mean
Another internet quote, since you insist that Galadriel had no dealings of her own with the outside world.
Another unattributed quote? And in any case, there hadn't been a meeting of the White Council in 65 years. It was done, finished, over. That's what you get for relying on the Internet instead of actually knowing what's in the books.
Feel free to suggest how she has dealings with the surrounding lands when Lorien is a closed land, Men and Elves are estranged and the Elves of Lorien were even sundered from their kindred in Thranduil's kingdom. Elrond sends her messengers, sometimes; Gandalf probably drops in when he's in that neck of the woods. That's it, apparently. Haldir said 'We... do not willingly have dealings with any other folk.' And he should know, right? He's a Marchwarden, guarding the borders of that land is his job.
see post #261, also post #260
see post #260
Ah Haldir said! The current Elf at a small patch of one of the frontier borders said it! Well, he should certainly know all the doings of the Lord and Lady all right. You handled that well.
Last edited by RKL; May 21 2012 at 04:28 PM.
"what you assert, you must prove"
“opinions; by definition, could be right or wrong”
“unless stated otherwise; everything I say is an opinion”
I said that Galadriel appears to be at least partly dependent on Elrond and Gandalf for information. She doesn't go out and about (unlike Gandalf) and is anything but welcoming to travellers (unlike Elrond).
So, since Elrond is very well connected and informed, and he and Gandalf are ‘only part’ of Galadriel’s sources of information, it therefore naturally follows that Galadriel is not well informed in affairs outside of her land. OK
"what you assert, you must prove"
“opinions; by definition, could be right or wrong”
“unless stated otherwise; everything I say is an opinion”
Ah Haldir said! The current Elf at a small patch of one of the frontier borders said it! Well, he should certainly would know all the doings of the Lord and Lady all right. You handled that well.
Oh, post #261. Let's see you come up with a quote to substantiate that, then. Otherwise, it's just more of the game's BS (something plenty of people have commented on in the past) and so again, you'd be propping up one bit of lore-breaking BS with another one.
I've yet to see you come up with anything directly from the books, so unless you can actually produce something to contradict what Haldir said then you've not got a leg to stand on, there.
You make the claim that Galadriel has no ambassadors outside her borders, and you want me to prove otherwise?
You made the claim; I am not claiming she did. I am only asking you to prove it.
What chapter in the book is it in?
Perhaps we have a different interpretation of ambassador. I am only looking at it as; sources of information.
I should have thought that there were sufficient free dictionaries on the web for you to look up the meaning of the word for yourself. An envoy, a representative.
Going back to what I said: why is Galadriel not directly represented at the Council of Elrond, then? And if the Elves of Lorien were 'sundered' from their kindred in Thranduil's kingdom, that'd mean nobody there, either. That's two out of three, which only leaves Cirdan's lot in the Grey Havens and if there was no emissary of hers in Rivendell, even at such an important meeting, it hardly seems likely there'd be one at the Havens, either.
Burden of proof is on you if you're trying to argue for something the books do not show or even suggest.
Oh, post #261. Let's see you come up with a quote to substantiate that, then. Otherwise, it's just more of the game's BS (something plenty of people have commented on in the past) and so again, you'd be propping up one bit of lore-breaking BS with another one.
I've yet to see you come up with anything directly from the books, so unless you can actually produce something to contradict what Haldir said then you've not got a leg to stand on, there.
Here is post #261
Rad makes some un-thought-out assumptions. He knows that Lorien is isolated from people entering it. So, he assumes that means The Lord and Lady have isolated themselves from gathering information. We already know that Lorien Elves leave and return.
Do you really need me to prove that Arwen travels from Lorien to Rivendell and back again. And that very likely she does not make the journeys alone. Yes Elves do indeed leave Lorien and return.
If you want to call Arwen unwilling to have dealings with any other folk when she is deeply involved with a mortal man, then that is your business.
So yes, when Haldir says “we do not willingly have dealings, etc.” he was speaking from his own limited viewpoint as a grunt in the field (so to speak) and not speaking for Arwen and the rest of the ruling class.
"what you assert, you must prove"
“opinions; by definition, could be right or wrong”
“unless stated otherwise; everything I say is an opinion”
I should have thought that there were sufficient free dictionaries on the web for you to look up the meaning of the word for yourself. An envoy, a representative.
Going back to what I said: why is Galadriel not directly represented at the Council of Elrond, then? And if the Elves of Lorien were 'sundered' from their kindred in Thranduil's kingdom, that'd mean nobody there, either. That's two out of three, which only leaves Cirdan's lot in the Grey Havens and if there was no emissary of hers in Rivendell, even at such an important meeting, it hardly seems likely there'd be one at the Havens, either.
Burden of proof is on you if you're trying to argue for something the books do not show or even suggest.
How ‘bout that folks?
Rad claims that Galadriel has no ambassadors outside of her land and that the burden of proof is on me to prove him wrong.
If that does not sum up what Rad is all about, I don’t know what would.
"what you assert, you must prove"
“opinions; by definition, could be right or wrong”
“unless stated otherwise; everything I say is an opinion”
Do you really need me to prove that Arwen travels from Lorien to Rivendell and back again. And that very likely she does not make the journeys alone. Yes Elves do indeed leave Lorien and return.
If you want to call Arwen unwilling to have dealings with any other folk when she is deeply involved with a mortal man, then that is your business.
So yes, when Haldir says “we do not willingly have dealings, etc.” he was speaking from his own limited viewpoint as a grunt in the field (so to speak) and not speaking for Arwen and the rest of the ruling class.
Arwen left Rivendell to stay with Celeborn and Galadriel (her grandparents!) in Lorien for a while and then came back, but all of a sudden that's somehow supposed to mean means 'Elves' (there's that dubious plural again) leave Lorien and then return. Wrong way round.
Arwen left Rivendell to stay with Celeborn and Galadriel (her grandparents!) in Lorien for a while and then came back, but all of a sudden that's somehow supposed to mean means 'Elves' (there's that dubious plural again) leave Lorien and then return. Wrong way round.
True, we don’t know which Elves escorted Arwen on her journeys. It could easily have been Rivendell Elves. In that case, the Rivendell Elves would have had to stay for the duration on her stays, or return to Rivendell and come back when she was ready to leave. Or, Lorien Elves could have taken her back to Rivendell.
So it is incorrect to say that we “know” that “Lorien Elves” leave and return. Arwen is the only Lorien Elf that we know to leave and return to Lorien as far as I can recall.
You could also argue that Arwen was not in the true sense a Lorien Elf and instead, a Rivendell Elf.
"what you assert, you must prove"
“opinions; by definition, could be right or wrong”
“unless stated otherwise; everything I say is an opinion”
Regardless of my failing to logically think that post though, or the technicalities of Elf or Elves, the point remains.
Haldir is proven wrong if he pretends to speak for all of Lorien or the ruling class.
Here is your post.
Haldir said 'We... do not willingly have dealings with any other folk.' And he should know, right? He's a Marchwarden, guarding the borders of that land is his job.
Galadriel does indeed have willing dealings with other folk.
Last edited by RKL; May 21 2012 at 06:30 PM.
"what you assert, you must prove"
“opinions; by definition, could be right or wrong”
“unless stated otherwise; everything I say is an opinion”
This thread is still going? Blimey... Right! Back to the fun!
Additionally to all other points made, as Arwen is betrothed to Aragorn - Y'know, the (potential) future King of Gondor. Even if the Elfies of Lorion had no (current) knowledge at all of Gondor before that, I'd like to think that as someone who cares, Galadriel would have stuck her nose in and seen what kind of people her Granddaughter would be living with (And ruling over). Unless your saying that she'd be just as happy sending the bint to live in a city of savages who practise cannibalism for a hobby?
Galadriel does indeed have willing dealings with other folk.
Again with trying to generalise. Who do we actually know she's had dealings with latterly?
- Elrond (her son-in-law) and whatever messengers he sends to Lorien
- Arwen (her granddaughter), who had been known to visit her
- Aragorn
- Gandalf
- the remainder of the Fellowship
And that's all, since the White Council folded. No evidence that it was ever anything more than a small, select group. Invitations to Lorien would be pretty damn exclusive.
Last edited by Radhruin_EU; May 21 2012 at 07:26 PM.
Additionally to all other points made, as Arwen is betrothed to Aragorn - Y'know, the (potential) future King of Gondor. Even if the Elfies of Lorion had no (current) knowledge at all of Gondor before that, I'd like to think that as someone who cares, Galadriel would have stuck her nose in and seen what kind of people her Granddaughter would be living with (And ruling over). Unless your saying that she'd be just as happy sending the bint to live in a city of savages who practise cannibalism for a hobby?
Gandalf could have told her all about the place, he'd spent quite a bit of time there over the years.
Poster of Note Online status:
Reputation:
Grand Member Online status:
Originally Posted by RKL
Poster of Note Online status:
Reputation:
Grand Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Poster of Note Online status:
Reply With Quote
Posting Permissions
