Thread: Who is excited?

Originally Posted by Thane9

Just honestly answer me these two questions.

Are creeps more or less powerful relative to freeps than they were in SoA?
Is earning infamy easier or harder now relative to SoA?

I think it's pretty clear what the answers are. Why try to prove what is obvious?

In my own experience - back in SOA, Freeps were less powerful in comparison, and infamy took longer to get.

And yes - my original account dates back then

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

Originally Posted by Thane9

Are creeps more or less powerful relative to freeps than they were in SoA?
Is earning infamy easier or harder now relative to SoA?

1. New creeps are less powerful than they were in SoA (relative to freeps).
2. Earning Infamy is easier, but buying skills after ranking is harder. (via in-game currency only)

I've played creeps in SoA, MoM, and RoI.

Originally Posted by Olympic

Actually Luc, I have to disagree.

There are many freeps who matter-of-factly admit (both intentionally and non-intentionally) that it is quite easy to roll creep groups of much larger numbers. While it may often be a case of needing a larger group to counter a large freep force, its just as often a need to create a "large group" to deal with a -smaller- freep force.

That's just how it is.

And yes, creeps are stronger now than they were "back in the day", but that doesn't matter. Freeps are more powerful now against creeps than they were "back in the day", at least that is feedback I get from my friends still playing creepside and some of the objective opinion I read here on the forums.

It may be an audacity issue, it may be a combination of things, but creeps need to approach the situation much different than what you suggest.

They don't NEED to. They CHOOSE to. There's a very significant difference.

They NEED to only if they define their success in the same terms as freeps. They should not IMHO. They are not freeps and do not have the other costs that playing as a freep have built into their design.

Originally Posted by Umbrarg

In my own experience - back in SOA, Freeps were less powerful in comparison, and infamy took longer to get.

And yes - my original account dates back then

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

Did you ever fight me in SoA? Because I can say for certain I was far more powerful than creeps back then than I am now. FAR MORE.

Originally Posted by Thane9

They don't NEED to. They CHOOSE to. There's a very significant difference.

They NEED to only if they define their success in the same terms as freeps. They should not IMHO. They are not freeps and do not have the other costs that playing as a freep have built into their design.

No, they need to. Unless they want to wander around getting fisted at every turn.

Originally Posted by Olympic

No, they need to. Unless they want to wander around getting fisted at every turn.

Define "getting fisted" at every turn? I get between 20-30 deaths on my total every night. In my eyes creeps should have an even higher tolerance for deaths. And I'm supposedly this OP impossible to lose with power class.

I'll never convince you of all people that the raid and winning via numbers is not necessary. But it's not.

That is NOT to say that given even numbers creeps will win 50% of the time. In fact I'd say that's not going to happen. But they CAN win with even numbers, and then CAN win with greater numbers without zerging.

If a duo encounters me, they will most likely win. They didn't need to ZERG to get those points. They didn't need to form up a raid larger than the other side to win.

Grouping is not zerging. Zerging is purposefully grouping to EXCEED your opponents size. There's an important distinction.

Originally Posted by Thane9

I just don't see how taking such obviously one sided and extreme views can possibly help creepside development.

I don't think anything I said could be deemed extreme or one sided, prolly leans closer to fact and reality actually /shrug

I'm not saying freeps are unbeatable titans - though I highly doubt a rank 4 reaver with 1 audacity requires any effort on your part to dispatch...and the risk/reward for said player to run around solo on the map looking for solo freep fights is just not there in todays moors....regardless if its better now then it was 4 years ago - who cares about 4 years ago? I can just see the advert..

..."it may be ###### now, but it was worse 4 years ago!...try ftp creepside now <click link>....now with a bird!" sold me! lol

Perceptions trump reality - you want more solo fights....be a proponent of buffing creeps - even if you don't believe its needed. If joe average creep player believes they are stronger - they will be more likely to venture out solo. /shrug

Originally Posted by Radardog

1. New creeps are less powerful than they were in SoA (relative to freeps).
2. Earning Infamy is easier, but buying skills after ranking is harder. (via in-game currency only)

I've played creeps in SoA, MoM, and RoI.

New creeps are meaningless to the discussion. You're new for such a minor amount of time. And they've added PvE to enable that time to be relatively easy.

Although I agree that the skill gating with comms is borked, this has to be in part at least a way of mitigating store bought skills too. Otherwise it'd be too easy to get a lot of power early. Something again, that Turbine has done a TERRIBLE job of clearly deciding to go with or abandon.

I get ya Plok and others, both sides may play the same.

But.....

I cannot play all day and night, my gaming time is between 8:30-11:30 est, all week. Now since I have started and exclusively played creepside (for about 4-5 months) - my Moor's pvp experience has literally been the same since I started. Every night around 9:00-9:30 the freep raid/zerg/whatever you want to call it begins. The map turns blue from keep battles and such. The fight then moves to a farming session, usually at OC or Grams. Some nights it's my entire play time, others it ends earlier. Some nights there are good fights, other nights it's just horrible.

Sooooo, from my experience and perspective - it is the freeps who are in zerg mode and the creeps getting destroyed. I have yet to be online when a creep zerg occurs - of course I can contribute that to the flipping of the map prior to my gaming time (so yeah that's the creep zerg time I guess).

To me, this is the norm, this is what the Moors is - I expect it everytime I log in. Yet I still come back, fight and die, and try to have fun.

The problem I have with you Luc, is that you are so one-sided that you refuse to TRY the other side. Numbers and statistics don't matter, they can be skewed whichever way you want. Experience will lead you to the truth, until you try you will never know.

Originally Posted by chrisCML

I don't think anything I said could be deemed extreme or one sided, prolly leans closer to fact and reality actually /shrug

I'm not saying freeps are unbeatable titans - though I highly doubt a rank 4 reaver with 1 audacity requires any effort on your part to dispatch...and the risk/reward for said player to run around solo on the map looking for solo freep fights is just not there in todays moors....regardless if its better now then it was 4 years ago - who cares about 4 years ago? I can just see the advert..

..."it may be ###### now, but it was worse 4 years ago!...try ftp creepside now <click link>....now with a bird!" sold me! lol

Perceptions trump reality - you want more solo fights....be a proponent of buffing creeps - even if you don't believe its needed. If joe average creep player believes they are stronger - they will be more likely to venture out solo. /shrug

Why would you think a R4 reaver should be balanced against me solo?

That reaver should have a R4 groupmate. Nothing crazy or zergtastic about that...just common sense. Why should some player with a half a dozen hours logged match up against a player with half a decade logged?

Originally Posted by Thane9

Define "getting fisted" at every turn? I get between 20-30 deaths on my total every night. In my eyes creeps should have an even higher tolerance for deaths. And I'm supposedly this OP impossible to lose with power class.

I'll never convince you of all people that the raid and winning via numbers is not necessary. But it's not.

That is NOT to say that given even numbers creeps will win 50% of the time. In fact I'd say that's not going to happen. But they CAN win with even numbers, and then CAN win with greater numbers without zerging.

If a duo encounters me, they will most likely win. They didn't need to ZERG to get those points. They didn't need to form up a raid larger than the other side to win.

Grouping is not zerging. Zerging is purposefully grouping to EXCEED your opponents size. There's an important distinction.

Ahh but see, this is where your misperception kicks in. Your view of my view is wrong. You are implying that "my way" is to purposefully exceed the opponents size. I am not against this idea, especially for creeps, but MY view is that creeps should roll with whatever it is they need to compete and win. The numbers are irrelevant. If its 6 fine. If its 26, fine.

What they should NOT do, is draw down to make people on the other side happy. And if you die 20 - 30 times a night, that is on YOU. Creeps should NOT adopt that strategy imo. (Well no one should really, but I'm speaking from the Creep opinion in this conversation).

Originally Posted by Thane9

Why would you think a R4 reaver should be balanced against me solo?

That reaver should have a R4 groupmate. Nothing crazy or zergtastic about that...just common sense. Why should some player with a half a dozen hours logged match up against a player with half a decade logged?

They shouldn't be, and per my above post the MAJORITY of the creep pop is mid/low ranked (read limited skill sets/audacity) hence....they group to fight freeps. 2-3 group to kill a solo freep...then said freep groups to fight said creeps and it just becomes an escalation from there (for both sides). Throw in a freep healer (with some support) and the creep number needed goes up even more. You were complaining about the lack of solo creep players.....

- I'm suggesting that mid/low ranked creeps can't solo effectively (which you seem to agree with)
- the majority of the population is mid/low rank
- therefore the majority of the creep population won't be looking for solo fights...
- you can layer on top of that that not all creep classes are terribly effective solo further reducing the "solo" population

Originally Posted by Thane9

Did you ever fight me in SoA? Because I can say for certain I was far more powerful than creeps back then than I am now. FAR MORE.

I played in Gilrain back in SOA - I lived on a different continent back then.

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy.

Originally Posted by chrisCML

They shouldn't be, and per my above post the MAJORITY of the creep pop is mid/low ranked (read limited skill sets/audacity) hence....they group to fight freeps. 2-3 group to kill a solo freep...then said freep groups to fight said creeps and it just becomes an escalation from there (for both sides). Throw in a freep healer (with some support) and the creep number needed goes up even more. You were complaining about the lack of solo creep players.....

- I'm suggesting that mid/low ranked creeps can't solo effectively (which you seem to agree with)
- the majority of the population is mid/low rank
- therefore the majority of the creep population won't be looking for solo fights...
- you can layer on top of that that not all creep classes are terribly effective solo further reducing the "solo" population

I'm not complaining about the # of solo players. I'm complaining about the % of high level creeps who solo.

To extend that thought what I'm really having issues with is the number of players on BOTH sides who feel that escalation of numbers is the only answer and that if you can't pool up and smash the biggest thing on the board then you should just log and/or switch sides.

It's what happens.

This isn't about purely "solo" it's about the diversity of group size and the mentality that if I win with 2 then you need 4 and if you win with 4 then I need 8 etc...

Instead of just taking your losses when it's 2v1 and taking your wins when it's 1v2. Or vice versa.

The idea is that you have to ALWAYS win, and typically in a relatively static location so you don't have to look for fights you can just sit and rez or run back or map back to the same location over and over and over.

It reduces what is a cool open PvMP map/game to instanced PvMP where the sides aren't balanced. Ever play instanced PvMP with unbalanced sides? yeah, not fun. All it ends up being is frustrating.

THAT's what the moors have become.

Because everyone wants to go "where the fight is" and win via numbers.

Why not move around, take your lumps when they happen (or try to save your skin) and fight when you can try to win, and dish it out as often as you can?

Instead, zerging and to no small extent warg packs, lead to the opposite.

Originally Posted by Olympic

Ahh but see, this is where your misperception kicks in. Your view of my view is wrong. You are implying that "my way" is to purposefully exceed the opponents size. I am not against this idea, especially for creeps, but MY view is that creeps should roll with whatever it is they need to compete and win. The numbers are irrelevant. If its 6 fine. If its 26, fine.

What they should NOT do, is draw down to make people on the other side happy. And if you die 20 - 30 times a night, that is on YOU. Creeps should NOT adopt that strategy imo. (Well no one should really, but I'm speaking from the Creep opinion in this conversation).

You do see how that thought process leads to one end though right? If both sides adopt the "we should roll with whateever it is they need to compete and win" attitude.

It has ONE logical conclusion. Zergballs in the center of the map (or some other static location) until one side is at a decidedly large disadvantage then they log or switch sides.

This happens. It happens COMMONLY. It's what people complain about.

AND worst of all? It's what people use to cite NEEDING to do the behaviour in the first place. Creeps say we have to zerg up to fight the freep zerg, all they do is zerg. And freeps say we have to zerg up to fight the creep zerg, all they do is zerg.

It may be your philosophy, it may make sense but the result is a really cruddy gameplay most of the time.

For any small moments where both sides are relatively balanced...it can be fun...no doubt. But those moments are few and far between.

Better to roll around in variously sized groups and encounter what you encounter good/bad or in between than just try to be the 300 lb gorrilla. Because if you do that, the other side is going to try and be the 600 lb gorrila. And it only gets worse.

Note: none of this has anything to do with creep/freep power levels either. it's a nasty cycle that needs to be broken. MORE mechanics that encourage fighting spread out across the map with objectives that are NOT best solved with one huge force need to be put in place. And the players need to be willing to embrace such changes and work tactically with eachother but not allways on top of each other.

Open shouldn't mean who can field the most at this moment in time.

Open should mean there's going to be a lot of different things going on and you need to adjust your actions and play to be effective as you can.

Originally Posted by Umbrarg

I played in Gilrain back in SOA - I lived on a different continent back then.

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy.

*dies laughing*

It's the revenge of the wargs!!!

Originally Posted by Thane9

This isn't about purely "solo" it's about the diversity of group size and the mentality that if I win with 2 then you need 4 and if you win with 4 then I need 8 etc...

Instead of just taking your losses when it's 2v1 and taking your wins when it's 1v2. Or vice versa.

Well people DO that. You present this image that every time someone loses a fight they form a raid. Its simply NOT true.

Originally Posted by Thane9

The idea is that you have to ALWAYS win

That is typically the idea in a contest. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but usually the goal IS to win.

Originally Posted by Thane9

Because everyone wants to go "where the fight is" and win via numbers.

I think people want to go where the fight is. Most people probably want to win. Your point really doesn't make sense. Its as though you are saying that people just want to go where the fight is and win...is a bad thing? I don't think many people care if they win "via numbers", they just want to "win".

Originally Posted by Thane9

Why not move around, take your lumps when they happen (or try to save your skin) and fight when you can try to win, and dish it out as often as you can?

Well, that is what most people do Luc. But your premise is that you can only have this mindset if you are alone. Totally wrong.

Originally Posted by Thane9

You do see how that thought process leads to one end though right? If both sides adopt the "we should roll with whatever it is they need to compete and win" attitude.

Both sides SHOULD roll with whatever it is they need to compete and win. Why would you roll to not compete and lose?

Originally Posted by Thane9

It has ONE logical conclusion. Zergballs in the center of the map (or some other static location) until one side is at a decidedly large disadvantage then they log or switch sides.

That is your conclusion. Not THE ONE logical conclusion.

Originally Posted by Thane9

It may be your philosophy, it may make sense but the result is a really cruddy gameplay most of the time.

From your point of view yes. And I can see why. But that's just life in the big city.

Originally Posted by Thane9

Open shouldn't mean who can field the most at this moment in time.

Open means "open". It means people go out and do their thing. What you don't understand about other players is they see things differently. You want to convince people that they are -playing wrong- and hope they change their play style. You want the game to force mechanics on people to make them play a certain way. Others, like myself, accept human behavior for what it is and play the game. You have been making these same arguments for years and to little avail. Its not going to change much, you will be making this case 2 years from now when you hit Rank 15

Originally Posted by Thane9

Open should mean there's going to be a lot of different things going on and you need to adjust your actions and play to be effective as you can.

Well that is largely how it goes, at least that was my experience.

Originally Posted by Thane9

Note: none of this has anything to do with creep/freep power levels either. it's a nasty cycle that needs to be broken. MORE mechanics that encourage fighting spread out across the map with objectives that are NOT best solved with one huge force need to be put in place. And the players need to be willing to embrace such changes and work tactically with eachother but not allways on top of each other.

/disagree. Rightly or wrongly players make play decisions based on risk/reward (&fun!). The risk aspect is impacted by relative power levels.

Originally Posted by Thane9

They NEED to only if they define their success in the same terms as freeps. They should not IMHO. They are not freeps and do not have the other costs that playing as a freep have built into their design.

I'm trying to figure out what you mean by this statment.....behind the keyboard we are all the same...are you suggesting that creeps should measure "success" (ie fun) on a differnt scale then freeps? In other words.....implying creeps should be happy with a level of "success" that would make a freep unhappy? Sounds awesome.

Originally Posted by chrisCML

They shouldn't be, and per my above post the MAJORITY of the creep pop is mid/low ranked (read limited skill sets/audacity) hence....they group to fight freeps. 2-3 group to kill a solo freep...then said freep groups to fight said creeps and it just becomes an escalation from there (for both sides). Throw in a freep healer (with some support) and the creep number needed goes up even more. You were complaining about the lack of solo creep players.....

- I'm suggesting that mid/low ranked creeps can't solo effectively (which you seem to agree with)
- the majority of the population is mid/low rank
- therefore the majority of the creep population won't be looking for solo fights...
- you can layer on top of that that not all creep classes are terribly effective solo further reducing the "solo" population

Brilliant post with absolute and clear logic. +rep for you

15 pages later and the same horse is being flogged. I think we should just agree that we are all happy being miserable out in the moors:

I'm here because someone wanted a "getting fisted" definition? I think it would be easier to see/experience instead of hear though, so hit me up!




Gut Out!

There's only one clear way to determine if Luc is crazy or not, and that is if he rolls a Creep and plays for a solid month and comes back and maintains his current views of the game. The ball is in your court sir.

Originally Posted by Needlewitch

There's only one clear way to determine if Luc is crazy or not, and that is if he rolls a Creep and plays for a solid month and comes back and maintains his current views of the game. The ball is in your court sir.

Or maybe he just doesn't agree with people who are on the other side of the spectrum? No offense, but I'm pretty sure you haven't touched Stariya in a long time, so of course you two will disagree. Doesn't make either of you crazy.

Besides, the core concepts of Luc's thoughts have little to do with creep/freep, but more to do with playstyle, and I don't see that changing regardless of which side he's on.

Frankly, I'm more interested in what Hithy thinks with his Champion. It's such a gear-dependent class; the time and effort that it will take to reach a competitive level far exceeds what it will take for Luc to get a warg rolling. Of course, both players likely have a ton of extra commendations, but that won't help when it comes to LIs and much of the other jewelry/pieces freeps need.

Originally Posted by Jamers

Or maybe he just doesn't agree with people who are on the other side of the spectrum? No offense, but I'm pretty sure you haven't touched Stariya in a long time, so of course you two will disagree. Doesn't make either of you crazy.

Uhh, I took Stariya from a level 50 R8 character to lvl 65 and R9 just before I went on an 8 month hiatus and just came back to the game 2 months ago. I spent months in Forochel, Eregion, Moria, Lothlorien, Enedwaith and Mirkwood. I had the awesomest priviledge to play with the coolest kids ever, Guardians of the Dagorlad and then Titans! ;D I grinded tokens and medallions and worked on Relics and LI's just like any other Freep - and fun fact, I only came to Creepside 4 years ago as this same challenge was made to me by Bloodbourne. He called me out for not having a balanced opinion of the PVP and challenged me to roll a Creep, so I did and here I am.

So yeah, no offence, but maybe you should do a little research before implying my opinion of the game is skewed. A more accurate statement would have been that I have lost my Freepside view since the new expansion, because I havent entered the Moors on a Freep since then, but what about all the other high ranking players who play both sides and think the game is an unbalanced joke? What about the people who play Creepside here and Freep on other servers? This feeling of anger and frustration about the current state of the game is not a Creepside phoenomena by a bunch of whiny Creep raid babies, these are legitimate gripes from players of all backgrounds.

I've thought about returning Freepside but the amount of time it would take for me to get to the level of competitiveness for the Moors is just not feasible with my schedule these days, but yes sir, I do take exception to the notion that I am a complete tool with no view on PVP because I haven't Freep'd lately. I'll admit I'm a good amount of moron, but not a complete moron.

-Needlewitch

Originally Posted by Needlewitch

but what about all the other high ranking players who play both sides and think the game is an unbalanced joke? What about the people who play Creepside here and Freep on other servers? This feeling of anger and frustration about the current state of the game is not a Creepside phoenomena by a bunch of whiny Creep raid babies, these are legitimate gripes from players of all backgrounds.

QFT. Pre-RoI, freeps had the advantage in several main departments, like AoE DPS, CC, Debuffs ect...But creeps were able to expect decent chances of winning if they could extend the fight to the maximum. Creeps were able to win attrition wars, thanks to AoE rez. Its no longer the case. Burst DPS, AoE DPS, CC, Debuffs, Buffs, Healing, and now AoE rez. Freeps are vastly favored in any department on the battlefield.

Personnaly, im ok with Freeps being slightly OP compared to a Creep. But the current Moors state doesnt show a small gap, but more a Grand Canyon size one.

Originally Posted by chrisCML

They shouldn't be, and per my above post the MAJORITY of the creep pop is mid/low ranked (read limited skill sets/audacity) hence....they group to fight freeps. 2-3 group to kill a solo freep...then said freep groups to fight said creeps and it just becomes an escalation from there (for both sides). Throw in a freep healer (with some support) and the creep number needed goes up even more. You were complaining about the lack of solo creep players.....

- I'm suggesting that mid/low ranked creeps can't solo effectively (which you seem to agree with)
- the majority of the population is mid/low rank
- therefore the majority of the creep population won't be looking for solo fights...
- you can layer on top of that that not all creep classes are terribly effective solo further reducing the "solo" population

The majority of Freep population is under L40 too. Those toons can't even GET to the moors. Let alone any analysis of their power.

My point is simple. A creep who invests even HALF the time on their ONE toon will be as competative (situationally of course some matchups will be good some bad) as MOST (again, some classes/builds ARE problematic and need fixed) freeps.

So far, I've seen nothing to believe otherwise in ranking the warg. It's been easy so far and I imagine WELL before Hithy even sets eyes on his first L50 LI, I'll have made my first solo kill. I'm not trying now, just grinding comms and ranking up. No TP spent as of yet either, I'd rather save that for Luc...but if something comes up that seems like good bang for the buck I may buy a skill or two. That's the whole point of a VIP account anyway...

3 hours played. R2 almost R3...moving along nicely. IIRC some decent things open up at R4...that should be where I start engaging freeps. Another handfull of hours I imagine. Less than what I play in ONE DAY with Luc.

LOL, you won't fight freeps until rank 4?

Well I guess it's been easy for you then, but the point of the challenge is fighting freeps - not grinding quests. Maybe you'll get a better idea of what it's like being a low ranked creep getting ganked by higher ranked freeps, something you seem to have no problem doing, especially camping in HH, Grams slugs, and the pee spot. If anything, group up with some creeps and get some experience fighting something other than NPC's or picking up sticks.

And yes, it will take Hithy some time to get his champ up and you WILL get your first solo kill before he hits lvl 50. It's not a race....er....maybe in your mind it is.

Originally Posted by Needlewitch

Uhh, I took Stariya from a level 50 R8 character to lvl 65 and R9 just before I went on an 8 month hiatus and just came back to the game 2 months ago. I spent months in Forochel, Eregion, Moria, Lothlorien, Enedwaith and Mirkwood. I had the awesomest priviledge to play with the coolest kids ever, Guardians of the Dagorlad and then Titans! ;D I grinded tokens and medallions and worked on Relics and LI's just like any other Freep - and fun fact, I only came to Creepside 4 years ago as this same challenge was made to me by Bloodbourne. He called me out for not having a balanced opinion of the PVP and challenged me to roll a Creep, so I did and here I am.

So yeah, no offence, but maybe you should do a little research before implying my opinion of the game is skewed. A more accurate statement would have been that I have lost my Freepside view since the new expansion, because I havent entered the Moors on a Freep since then, but what about all the other high ranking players who play both sides and think the game is an unbalanced joke? What about the people who play Creepside here and Freep on other servers? This feeling of anger and frustration about the current state of the game is not a Creepside phoenomena by a bunch of whiny Creep raid babies, these are legitimate gripes from players of all backgrounds.

I've thought about returning Freepside but the amount of time it would take for me to get to the level of competitiveness for the Moors is just not feasible with my schedule these days, but yes sir, I do take exception to the notion that I am a complete tool with no view on PVP because I haven't Freep'd lately. I'll admit I'm a good amount of moron, but not a complete moron.

-Needlewitch

Seriously man, it was a legit no offense post. From what I know you primarily play Needle, and it seems that still holds true. That was my only point. You both are staring across a decently wide expanse of play experience.

Originally Posted by Jamers

Seriously man, it was a legit no offense post. From what I know you primarily play Needle, and it seems that still holds true. That was my only point. You both are staring across a decently wide expanse of play experience.

No worries, I just don't want people to assume I hadn't at least tried to do my homework. The time investment in Freeps is HUGE, I'll be the first to admit that, it's just not feasible for me right now. I would enjoy having equally ranked characters (Stariya is R9 and Needle just hit R10) but I can't keep up with the constant equipment grind. If I win the lottery I promise I'll move into the same retirement home as Budhorn and Freep until I burst, but until then it's Creep 4 Life.

- Needlewitch

Originally Posted by CRUSHUC

LOL, you won't fight freeps until rank 4?

Well I guess it's been easy for you then, but the point of the challenge is fighting freeps - not grinding quests. Maybe you'll get a better idea of what it's like being a low ranked creep getting ganked by higher ranked freeps, something you seem to have no problem doing, especially camping in HH, Grams slugs, and the pee spot. If anything, group up with some creeps and get some experience fighting something other than NPC's or picking up sticks.

And yes, it will take Hithy some time to get his champ up and you WILL get your first solo kill before he hits lvl 50. It's not a race....er....maybe in your mind it is.

It's not a race or I'd have FAR FAR more hours logged than the under 4 I'm currently at.

You can LOL all you want. Freepside has a grind to be competative in PvMP.

So does Creepside...and it's an EASIER FASTER grind.

That's all I've been trying to say all along.

It's how I played my reaver back in SoA when I was just trying to get competitive. It's how I'm playing my warg now that it's FAR EASIER than it was in SoA.

Complain all you want about imbalance but a decked out R9 creep IS competative (depending on matchup under R9 even), when played by a competant player. It's just the grind to R9 that is annoying.

And guess what? The PvE grind for Freeps? It's FAR more annoying. And it never stops.

Get a creep to R9 he's R9 forever.
Get a Freep to L50...whoops...now you have to get to 60 AND grind LIs....

OOPS...now you need to grind to 65 AND a whole NEW SET of LIs....

OH sucks to be you, time for another 10 levels and a whole new set of LIs...

Oh got your 3rd ages? Time to grind 2nd ages.

Sorry about that chum...1st ages are out now. And we buffed creeps btw...so you'll want them.

YAY, 2-3 months before Rohan and an entirely NEW grind.

Meanwhile R9 creep is R10. And auto-upgraded each new expansion.

I'm sorry you don't get it. But creepside in a lot of ways is easier. You may be weaker. It may seem like a "grind". But creeps have NOTHING on what freeps have to endure to PvMP.

Editing to add: BTW, I WILL fight freeps before R4...I've done so and will continue to do so. Got my first KB at R0. But those fights will be ONLY on my terms and ONLY when I have advantage. I'll look for more fair fights when I'm more powerful and a closer match.

Oh I never considered this a race - simply a challenge, and a way of hopefully getting Lucybaby to see what Creepside is really like these days.

Plus - I havent had a freep levelled up since SoA - so it should be an eye-opener for me too.

Have to admit - it would be a lot of fun to get Vinnybaby and Lucybaby on wargs and have them run with Fluffy Death

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

Originally Posted by Thane9

But those fights will be ONLY on my terms and ONLY when I have advantage. I'll look for more fair fights when I'm more powerful and a closer match.

*cough* But werent you saying...

Originally Posted by Thane9

Change your mindset. Infamy is forever. Dying is nothing. There is NO PENALTY FOR DYING.Creepside, all you have to do is log in and fight. Instead we see people playing creeps like freeps. Afraid to die. Afraid of not "winning" every fight.

I have no desire to bother playing like that.

Originally Posted by whitefox1313

*cough* But werent you saying...

There's a difference between a R0 stealthing by a Minstrel at full health in HH surrounded by his friendly npcs, and a R9 who runs from a Champ with npcs ON him.

But given the nature of most of your posts towards me that's a distinction you fail to see.

Originally Posted by Umbrarg

Oh I never considered this a race - simply a challenge, and a way of hopefully getting Lucybaby to see what Creepside is really like these days.

Plus - I havent had a freep levelled up since SoA - so it should be an eye-opener for me too.

Have to admit - it would be a lot of fun to get Vinnybaby and Lucybaby on wargs and have them run with Fluffy Death

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

I know. But what I've seen so far is that it's far easier than it was in SoA. In fact I feel sad that creeps are complaining at all. I REALLY messed up a hunter that knocked me from stealth from range. And I was R3....without HIPS....

I'd win that fight with just a few more comms and maybe a rank or two more. And he got the jump on me...

Not to mention in just a few short hours I've been ranking faster than what took creeps of SoA era weeks if not months.

Luc your opinion of Creeps is null until you get your Warg to a respectable level. You are the parents in Charlie Brown until then.

HaHaHahah. Really? You are gonna play a Warg? The easiest class to be creepside at the moment. Luc, you are a Champ. Play a Reaver. You people stymie with the amount of #### you try to feed each other on a daily basis. Maybe you need a guideline for a basis for a day. You people all need more raw energy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFahe...feature=relmfu

Luc, Luc, Luc,

Nobody will ever deny that leveling and grinding a freep is time consuming and a commitment. And yes, it's easier on creepside - there are no level grinds, virtue grinds, weapon and armor grinds, etc - WE ALL KNOW THAT. Remember, the game is freepside centric - there is no means to level and grind a creep, so they have to auto upgrade to at least attempt to balance. Ultimately, it would've been really cool to have a creepside pve environment - but we are given what we have.

I can also say, since I'm fairly confident, that you basically play most of the day, so yes, it probably didn't take you very long to get to R3.

Now to pvp, yeah a R9 creep has as good a chance to win any 1v1 against any class. But can you tell me how long it takes to get a creep to R9? My guess, no. I can say for a fact, that for the same time it would take me to get my warg to R9 (currently at R7) I could have gotten a fresh freep to level 75 and through the pve end game.

The point in my post was when taking Pup'z challenege, it wasn't about grinding, ranking and whatnot - it was about fighting freeps and experiencing the imbalance of the Moors. Nothing more, nothing less. You're trying it out, and I commend you on it. Now, we just have to get you running with the Fluffy Death.

FYI - I have two 75's (a mini and grd) that are currently as far as I can take them, there's nothing left to do with them other than grind for crystals, so I know the grind very well. I hate to imagine what new grind Rohan will bring them.

Originally Posted by Thane9

I know. But what I've seen so far is that it's far easier than it was in SoA. In fact I feel sad that creeps are complaining at all. I REALLY messed up a hunter that knocked me from stealth from range. And I was R3....without HIPS....

I'd win that fight with just a few more comms and maybe a rank or two more. And he got the jump on me...

Not to mention in just a few short hours I've been ranking faster than what took creeps of SoA era weeks if not months.

Luc,

First, glad you took the challenge to experience the other side of the coin. Likewise, props for taking on a freep at a low rank! Not all that long ago I had to *facepaw* when a different low-ranked warg commented in OOC that he felt he couldn't fight a lone hunter, and didn't even try. Unless it's Sov or Wulf or 1 or 2 others, most hunters are pretty much an easy nom.

That said, my challenge was more so you could experience the wider array of hurdles we face on this side. Things like the group tactics employed by Garny & Co. that take a ratio of 3:1 to counter, the insane amount of damage an RK can crit on an EC (one for 11.5k last night) or comparables from other classes, the barrage of cc and powered-up heals, the frustrating ### factor when you have a champ down near 2k only to have the seemingly-constant bubbles save him.

Even then, it's not one or two incidents or occurrences, it's the endless repetition of these things further incensed by more tweaks that widen the gap. That's where you see the frustration begin to mount.

Still, see ya out there!

-pup-

Originally Posted by Thane9

But given the nature of most of your posts towards me that's a distinction you fail to see.

Given the nature of your posts toward the total Creep population, im not the one failing to make distinction here.

Originally Posted by Needlewitch

Luc your opinion of Creeps is null until you get your Warg to a respectable level. You are the parents in Charlie Brown until then.

So first it's because I didn't play creepside, now it's because I haven't played ENOUGH. Spare me.

Originally Posted by JigsawEarth

HaHaHahah. Really? You are gonna play a Warg? The easiest class to be creepside at the moment. Luc, you are a Champ. Play a Reaver. You people stymie with the amount of #### you try to feed each other on a daily basis. Maybe you need a guideline for a basis for a day. You people all need more raw energy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFahe...feature=relmfu

I have a reaver. Apparently ranking a reaver in SoA wasn't good enough for these people.

Originally Posted by CRUSHUC

Luc, Luc, Luc,

Nobody will ever deny that leveling and grinding a freep is time consuming and a commitment. And yes, it's easier on creepside - there are no level grinds, virtue grinds, weapon and armor grinds, etc - WE ALL KNOW THAT. Remember, the game is freepside centric - there is no means to level and grind a creep, so they have to auto upgrade to at least attempt to balance. Ultimately, it would've been really cool to have a creepside pve environment - but we are given what we have.

I can also say, since I'm fairly confident, that you basically play most of the day, so yes, it probably didn't take you very long to get to R3.

Now to pvp, yeah a R9 creep has as good a chance to win any 1v1 against any class. But can you tell me how long it takes to get a creep to R9? My guess, no. I can say for a fact, that for the same time it would take me to get my warg to R9 (currently at R7) I could have gotten a fresh freep to level 75 and through the pve end game.

The point in my post was when taking Pup'z challenege, it wasn't about grinding, ranking and whatnot - it was about fighting freeps and experiencing the imbalance of the Moors. Nothing more, nothing less. You're trying it out, and I commend you on it. Now, we just have to get you running with the Fluffy Death.

FYI - I have two 75's (a mini and grd) that are currently as far as I can take them, there's nothing left to do with them other than grind for crystals, so I know the grind very well. I hate to imagine what new grind Rohan will bring them.

I'm half way to R4 and under 4 hours of /played. Not "all day" any day at all. In fact I'm only playing VERY casually because I don't really want to slow Luc down as I'm getting really close to R13.

"Now to pvp, yeah a R9 creep has as good a chance to win any 1v1 against any class. "

This is really my KEY point. I disagree VEHEMANTLY that it takes longer to get to R9 than it does to get a Freep leveled and geared. I guess that's where we'll have to disagree.

Originally Posted by tykoshi

Luc,

First, glad you took the challenge to experience the other side of the coin. Likewise, props for taking on a freep at a low rank! Not all that long ago I had to *facepaw* when a different low-ranked warg commented in OOC that he felt he couldn't fight a lone hunter, and didn't even try. Unless it's Sov or Wulf or 1 or 2 others, most hunters are pretty much an easy nom.

That said, my challenge was more so you could experience the wider array of hurdles we face on this side. Things like the group tactics employed by Garny & Co. that take a ratio of 3:1 to counter, the insane amount of damage an RK can crit on an EC (one for 11.5k last night) or comparables from other classes, the barrage of cc and powered-up heals, the frustrating ### factor when you have a champ down near 2k only to have the seemingly-constant bubbles save him.

Even then, it's not one or two incidents or occurrences, it's the endless repetition of these things further incensed by more tweaks that widen the gap. That's where you see the frustration begin to mount.

Still, see ya out there!

-pup-

I ASSURE you, I have experienced a far easier gameplay at R0-R3 than I do with Luc at R12. Why would I bother even experiencing the group tactics employed by anyone. I'm solo, and I have the added advantage of stealth.

I have ZERO desire to fight that way.

This is the problem I think many of you aren't understanding. Creepside is NOT the same game. They're not comparable.

Too much of the "weaknesses" that people are reporting are self imposed. Are creeps weaker? Absolutely, in MANY ways. But my answer is "so what"? It's like saying the Balrog kill is easier than the Watcher. Is it? They're exceptionally different fights. The watcher requiring ZERO grind to get to. The Balrog has a whole huge zone of mobs to get through. But they're BOTH easy at L75. They're not the same. They both exist in LotRO, but they're not the same. AND they're both trivial in terms of difficulty, and meaningless in terms of rewards for L75s....

Sounds like creepside and freepside to me.