Thread: Gandalf - what happened?

Hello,

You may find this question dumb, but I just wanted to make sure.

I think, that Gandalf said( When he came back as Gandalf the White)
"I come back, untill my task is finished."

What does this mean, after Saurons defeat, he died? Eru Illuvatar took him? What happened to him after he sailed to the Undying lands, because I don't know if he is a mortal or immortal being

He's immortal. I'm not really sure how immortal beings spend their days in Aman. (Come to think of it there probably isn't much to do there.)

Originally Posted by Drachos

Hello,

You may find this question dumb, but I just wanted to make sure.

I think, that Gandalf said( When he came back as Gandalf the White)
"I come back, untill my task is finished."

What does this mean, after Saurons defeat, he died? Eru Illuvatar took him? What happened to him after he sailed to the Undying lands, because I don't know if he is a mortal or immortal being

This is mostly explained in "Unfinished Tales" in the section that discusses the Istari (the Wizards).
Initially all we know is Gandalf says one of his names was Olórin "in the West that is forgotten". In the Silmarillion, Olórin is named as one of the Maiar, lesser spirits, compared to the Valar, that entered the world when it was created but the two are not directly equated as the same being. Tolkin's writings on the Istari were never complete and include some contradictions but it's evident that Gandalf was the incarnated 'human' form of Olórin that all the Istari took when they traveled to Middle-earth. In fact all the Istari were of the Maiar, sent to help the Free Peoples to resist Sauron. That was the task Gandalf speaks of.

Ultimately he is immortal. As Gandalf he never aged but lived many lives of men as an old man. Upon his return to the West I imagine he could retake his Olorin form and return to Valinor but I also hope he would, at will, be able to hope over to Tol Eressëa and visit his Middle-earth friends in the form of that kindly old Wizard for a pint or two and a puff of a pipe.

Originally Posted by Drachos

What does this mean, after Saurons defeat, he died? Eru Illuvatar took him? What happened to him after he sailed to the Undying lands, because I don't know if he is a mortal or immortal being

When Gandalf returned to the Undying Lands he'd have been free to keep his familiar form, or take a new one, or to have no form at all (which was the natural state of beings like him). I like to think he'd have stayed looking like Gandalf at least until those of the Fellowship who went there had died, so they'd be able to see him in the form they were used to.

Olorin (Gandalf's true name - he had several) was a Maia, essentially an immortal spirit something like an angel, who along with his companions had taken the form of a 'Wizard', someone who looked like a wise, bearded old man in order to gain the trust of Men but was, of course, much more than that. His task was to help the Free Peoples resist and maybe ultimately overcome the Enemy without using his power to go up against Sauron directly. The form he'd taken was essentially ageless and far tougher and stronger than his appearance suggested, but it could be destroyed. He 'died' after fighting the Balrog because he'd overtaxed his strength in that epic fight and had nothing left to sustain his physical form, which was (I imagine) somewhat the worse for wear by the end.

When a Maia had been in a particular form for a long time, as Gandalf had, if that form was then 'slain' then it inflicted harm on their spirits, too (that was how Sauron had ended up being stuck with looking hideous), harm which could however be healed if they had help. Sauron was stuck on his own, of course - the Ring kept him anchored to Middle-earth and allowed him to come back, eventually, after being 'killed' (after about a thousand years, the last time) but it wouldn't fix him up entirely. Gandalf's spirit, on the other hand, had just floated off out of space and time when he 'died' - Iluvatar fixed him right up and sent him back, with a promotion for his trouble.

Originally Posted by Radhruin_EU

When Gandalf returned to the Undying Lands he'd have been free to keep his familiar form, or take a new one, or to have no form at all (which was the natural state of beings like him). I like to think he'd have stayed looking like Gandalf at least until those of the Fellowship who went there had died, so they'd be able to see him in the form they were used to.

It is some time since I read the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, however I believe that in the Undying Lands, no one can die, which is the reason Men weren't allowed to set foot there since the gift of Men was death(Unless it was in great need and selflessness like Eärendil showed). So to my understanding(and beliefs) Frodo, Sam, Bilbo and Gimli will live forever in Aman.

Originally Posted by Gorzh

It is some time since I read the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, however I believe that in the Undying Lands, no one can die, which is the reason Men weren't allowed to set foot there since the gift of Men was death(Unless it was in great need and selflessness like Eärendil showed). So to my understanding(and beliefs) Frodo, Sam, Bilbo and Gimli will live forever in Aman.

I don't have a quote from JRRT handy to back this up, but there is a line of islands between Aman (where the elves sail to) and Middle Earth. These islands are not actually part of Aman itself and do not provide immortality. The main island among them is Tol Eressea (sp?). I'm under the impression that the hobbits who sailed from Middle Earth only travelled as far as Tol Eressea and did not receive immortality because they did not travel all the way to Aman, but they were able to recover from the "hurts" they received as ring bearers while they lived on Tol Eressea. I honestly don't know how far Gimli travelled. If JRRT definitavely said that Gimli travelled to Aman, I don't remember reading it (but I haven't read everything he wrote).

Originally Posted by Gorzh

It is some time since I read the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, however I believe that in the Undying Lands, no one can die, which is the reason Men weren't allowed to set foot there since the gift of Men was death(Unless it was in great need and selflessness like Eärendil showed). So to my understanding(and beliefs) Frodo, Sam, Bilbo and Gimli will live forever in Aman.

this is the lie that sauron told ar-pharazon. when a mortal goes to the undying lands, they die, faster in fact because they cannot handle the bliss of aman. not a bad way to die, but they die nonetheless. for frodo and bilbo, aman confers healing for their wounds, but they die in the end. as for earendil, the valar gave him the choice of being an elf or a man, and he chose elf for elwing's sake.

Originally Posted by Gorzh

I believe that in the Undying Lands, no one can die, which is the reason Men weren't allowed to set foot there

It's a King's Man! Black Numenorean! Death to Gorzh!

Originally Posted by Gorzh

It is some time since I read the Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, however I believe that in the Undying Lands, no one can die, which is the reason Men weren't allowed to set foot there since the gift of Men was death(Unless it was in great need and selflessness like Eärendil showed). So to my understanding(and beliefs) Frodo, Sam, Bilbo and Gimli will live forever in Aman.

From The Silmarillion, under "Akallabêth":

'The Doom of the World,' they said, 'One alone can change who made it. And were you so to voyage that escaping all deceits and snares you came indeed to Aman, the Blessed Realm, little would it profit you. For it is not the land of Manwë that makes it's people deathless, but the Deathless that dwell therein have hallowed the land; and there you would but wither and grow weary the sooner, as moths in a light too strong and steadfast.

Those are the words from Manwë's messengers to the king of Númenoreans.

Gimli did visit Aman - though note the word "visit", which means he might have come back to Middle-Earth. A member of mortal race can be counted among the Elves (read: Tuor) but that's extremely rare. You would have to note though that Bilbo, Frodo and Sam don't have any recorded death years, but Gimli does, which confirms that it's not Aman that makes mortals immortal.

As for Gandalf, it's easy to believe that he returned as Olórin in the end, as the Maia that as he was, possibly taking his younger appearance back. It's possible because for Valar and Maiar body is just an apparel which they can change, like clothing.