Thread: Give everyone an out of combat rez!

One of the ideas I actually liked from SWTOR, the ability for anyone to rez another person if they are out of combat. This helped tremendously in cases where a lone DPSer survived, and then proceeded to rez the healer, who then got the rest of the group on their feet. In LotRO, if a lone DPSer (or a burg that HIPSed) survives a wipe, we have to wait for our healers to hike back, and then start the rezzing process - this idea would remove some of the pain in the process, especially when a group (or raid) is learning a content, and the hike to the wipe can be several minutes long.

To keep this balanced, the following classes have a half hour cooldown on their rez:
Burgular
Champion
Guardian
Hunter
Warden

The following classes have a non-cooldown out of combat rez:
Captain

There is no change to the LM, Mini, and RK out of combat rez - why fix what's not broken?

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

why fix what's not broken?

Indeed...and why homogenize the classes any more than they are already?

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Or they could do is a low cost out of combat tp res. For every class in Raid or fellowship quests. Basicly the same as in game res. Or payed verson.

Originally Posted by whheydt

Indeed...and why homogenize the classes any more than they are already?

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

So how would an option that's not going to be used IN COMBAT homonogize the classes?

This is purely convenience, nothing more, nothing less.

Originally Posted by Celt_Ainvar

Or they could do is a low cost out of combat tp res. For every class in Raid or fellowship quests. Basicly the same as in game res. Or payed verson.

Maybe this model for everyone but the captain, and then give the captain a zero induction out of combat rez.

I'd settle for a rallypoint that moves to the last cleared location...

Say at both bosses in Foundry or every room in the ToO-raids.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Maybe this model for everyone but the captain, and then give the captain a zero induction out of combat rez.

There alot of ideas we can put. I dont mind if the captain have a Rez. skill after combat. Mybe a trait or something but that for turbine to think about. But about each class res skill when the battle over. Even if the CAPT RK and MINI LM dead and only dps tank and such are alive. To have a option to have a class Rez would be nice.

Originally Posted by EvAmy

I'd settle for a rallypoint that moves to the last cleared location...

Say at both bosses in Foundry or every room in the ToO-raids.

Now here's a simple idea that makes sense and works at the same time. I like it, seems very good to me.

Nice idea OP.

Given that what we are dealing with here is a total loss of morale rather than a death, there is an opportunity to give everyone an OOC "rez" but how about making it a racial trait?

So,

Hobbits - would have a skill that enables them to knock up a quick dish of friend mushrooms & bacon or perhaps taters & rabbit - just the thing for getting a fellow back on his feet.

Dwarves - A stout slap on the back along with some forthright words such as "Get on yer feet laddie. No slouching now!!"...

Elves - A soft and soothing lament that calls upon the light of Elbereth to give hope etc

Men - A rousing speech that puts the cheer back into the meekest of hearts.

Perhaps make this skill so that they only work with those of the same race so as keep them within the lore and with a long cool down of day an hour it would not be overpowered or encroach into the territory of those classes that can do this now.

Originally Posted by BangoTwinkletoes

Nice idea OP.

Given that what we are dealing with here is a total loss of morale rather than a death, there is an opportunity to give everyone an OOC "rez" but how about making it a racial trait?

So,

Hobbits - would have a skill that enables them to knock up a quick dish of friend mushrooms & bacon or perhaps taters & rabbit - just the thing for getting a fellow back on his feet.

Dwarves - A stout slap on the back along with some forthright words such as "Get on yer feet laddie. No slouching now!!"...

Elves - A soft and soothing lament that calls upon the light of Elbereth to give hope etc

Men - A rousing speech that puts the cheer back into the meekest of hearts.

Perhaps make this skill so that they only work with those of the same race so as keep them within the lore and with a long cool down of day an hour it would not be overpowered or encroach into the territory of those classes that can do this now.

I could go for this, bump the lower racial slayer deed up to rank 3, and give everyone a half hour rez in addition to everything else they already have (so the change is additive only). This would also help shake up the racial traits a bit, since most classes effectively have their racials chosen for them.

Hun? All characters have a "out of combat" rez. Plus any class rezs. The "out of combat" rez has restrictions on it. It can't be used in all situations. The cool down is very long for high level characters. If you are desperate, you can buy additional single use rezs in the Lotro Store.

My recommendation is for to explain what your problem is with the existing mechanism. Perhaps offer some example solutions to your problem.

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

Hun? All characters have a "out of combat" rez. Plus any class rezs. The "out of combat" rez has restrictions on it. It can't be used in all situations. The cool down is very long for high level characters. If you are desperate, you can buy additional single use rezs in the Lotro Store.

My recommendation is for to explain what your problem is with the existing mechanism. Perhaps offer some example solutions to your problem.

Can a lone champ that survived a rather nasty pull/boss fight rez the healer with his current tools?

No he cannot. There would be much convenience if the champ could. If the non-healers had an out of combat rez with a half hour cooldown on it, it means they can help get the group moving faster after a nasty wipe, or after a partial wipe where the healers ate it.

Edit:
And this would be purely additive, so all of the existing out of combat rezzes would be unaffected.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Can a lone champ that survived a rather nasty pull/boss fight rez the healer with his current tools?

No he cannot. There would be much convenience if the champ could. If the non-healers had an out of combat rez with a half hour cooldown on it, it means they can help get the group moving faster after a nasty wipe, or after a partial wipe where the healers ate it.

Edit:
And this would be purely additive, so all of the existing out of combat rezzes would be unaffected.

Ah. I understand now.

Your problem is that you don't like the penalty imposed via a wipe in a group instance. This penalty is that the Minstrel (or other rezzer) has to release get a Dread penalty. Run back to rez everyone else. You have convince Turbine that this penalty is a bad thing. It needs to be changed.

The simple solution is to allow the Minstrel to self rez. I like the KISS principle (Keep It Simple Stupid) when possible. The Minstrel could get everybody back up quickly. No waiting for the Minstrel to return. With a mix of characters, you might do this multiple times by having a different member self rez each time. There is always Revival Tomes to purchase in the Lotro Store.

IMHO - Turbine will not give what you are asking for because you are attempting to take dollars from the Turbine Offering Basket Guardian Cats (OBGC). You are going to get growled at, hissed at and nipped. Turbine is not going to give up the revenue from selling Revival Tomes. People buy Revival Tomes for use on the landscape because of the long delay timer between self rezs.

You might be able to get Turbine to enable self rez in an instance if you talk sweetly to them. Tell the OBGCs that you can get more dollars via Rez tome sales since the self rez is only once every 2? hours for level capped characters.

I do miss how my rogue in WoW could stealth, and then use Goblin Jumper Cables to try and revive a healer. It didn't always work, but when it did, it made the near-wipe a lot less painful.

Overall though, there needs to be a penalty for wiping. And the current one seems okay. I do think having a close rally-point (as EvAmy suggested) is probably a better solution.

The only thing the current penalty for wiping does is waste time and make captains and LMs less desirable choices for 3 and 6 mans.

What's wrong with axing the time penalty?

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

The only thing the current penalty for wiping does is waste time and make captains and LMs less desirable choices for 3 and 6 mans.

What's wrong with axing the time penalty?

That is a question that only Turbine can answer. I don't believe they ever said anything. Trying to get Turbine to explain their reasoning is very difficult any more. There are plenty of angry animals on the forums that will tar, feather and burn them.

IMHO - Turbine believes that a wipe should result in a time penalty and a silver cost. Even so that, Turbine spent the extra resource cost to disable the self sez and the revival tomes in instances. It would have been lower development cost to not have put these restrictions into the game software.

What bugs me is the long run back as a Minstrel. I made that run more than once in Halls of Crafting. It is a long way back to that final boss.

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

What bugs me is the long run back as a Minstrel. I made that run more than once in Halls of Crafting. It is a long way back to that final boss.

Then why not throw your support behind this suggestion?

You know well how much it sucks when a group wipes, and how much everyone wants to get back into the action as fast as they can.

You also know how trivial the dread penalty truly is - provided there is an RK or Mini in the group/raid.

I do not support the idea of giving all classes a rez skill. I personally think it adds a bit to what little strategy there is in raids when you have to protect the healer. I just don't like the idea of homogenizing everyone.

I would support a rez stone that can be dropped on a 20 - 30 min cooldown that would allow you to return to a certain point in an instance when you die. But it should not work on a landscape.

A 30 min cooldown is fine in a six man as different people would be able to drop a stone, and there aren't any 3-man instances that I know of that need more than one rez stone dropped.

Originally Posted by Widoch

I do not support the idea of giving all classes a rez skill. I personally think it adds a bit to what little strategy there is in raids when you have to protect the healer. I just don't like the idea of homogenizing everyone.

And what happens if the healer dies while everybody is in combat still?

None of the suggested rezzes can be used - so either an incombat rez must be used or the group wipes. The exact same as it is now. None of the incombat gameplay changes. If players start to abuse the healer by not protecting them, the healer always has the option to get a spontaneous case of WAggro - or have their computer asplode, grandma feet needs ointment, or a myriad of other creative reasons to bow out.

Again, I'm not seeing how giving everybody a skill is homogenizing a class, because nothing in combat is changing. If you want to go in depth on that one, please do.

If the rez skill is a racial skill, then it wouldn't reset with the class skills when everything resets in a raid, so players must be careful when using them - exactly how man heal and the other racial skills function.

As someone who primarily plays as a minstrel let me just say..... Yes please!

The idea of a rally point is actually very brilliant. In foundries, when the rezzer has to run all the way, can't say it's much fun for anyone. What could happen is each time the fellowship or raid clears a boss, a little flag icon will appear on minimap. This will be the new rally point and when someone is defeated, they can rez there. The flag will pop up only when the boss is defeated so players will not be able to just die and retreat and die and retreat and still be able to fight the boss.

Originally Posted by EvAmy

I'd settle for a rallypoint that moves to the last cleared location...

Say at both bosses in Foundry or every room in the ToO-raids.

Nice suggestion, +rep. That would solve the problem of the healer having to run what is sometimes a VERY long way to rez groups, which becomes a big time burden for groups who are trying to learn a new fight and experiencing a lot of wipes along the way.

Here's an Idea...

Let scholars be able to make a Resurection scroll.
Put it on a timer similar to their Tradeskill Guild symbols (solo rez scroll can be made once a day, group rez scrolls can be made once every 3 days). Could also make the scrolls level applicable (An apprentice Rez scroll can rez level 10 - 20, Journeyman 21 - 30, etc...).

You could make also make it so only certain classes can use it (Wardens, Captains, and Guardians).

Originally Posted by EvAmy

I'd settle for a rallypoint that moves to the last cleared location...

Say at both bosses in Foundry or every room in the ToO-raids.

Agree! It's frustrating running back and forth, especially in Foundry >.<