Thread: south outpost

Ok this thread is for both sides.....although I dont see the problem on the creep side....When someone flips sop during prime times that means that the opposing group is itching for an open field fight! Creeps/freeps please correct me if I'm wrong

The first thought that comes to my mind is "with 12 npcs to their back? I don't think so", that thought is then revised based on various factors. But open field fight is not the first impression.

The first thought that comes to my mind is awesome they are in pve mode as usual and i go get a new beer to kill two minutes then map in to them setting up to drop pull LC. Yeah sadly around here open field fight is the last thing going through any creeps mind when sop is flipped for the 230th time of the night.

that may be true on both accounts based upon the keep flipping and things I've seen recently. In the past we would flip an outpost during prime time (we being insurrection) and the whole creep raid would chow u and we would get a pretty good open field battle

Freeps would rather run around the map and play hide and seek with the OPs and keeps than actually fight us the majority of the time.

Rofl my experience in the moors is about 80% of the time the action is dependant on freeps being aggressive and pushing creeps in npcs. So funny how so many people see the same situations differently. This could be totally dependent on my play times I have no idea. The only time I really see aggression is if Bag's on or Bloodloafs on to lead or a greenie zerg wants a freep controlled keep.

Originally Posted by Wilantuk

Rofl my experience in the moors is about 80% of the time the action is dependant on freeps being aggressive and pushing creeps in npcs. So funny how so many people see the same situations differently. This could be totally dependent on my play times I have no idea. The only time I really see aggression is if Bag's on or Bloodloafs on to lead or a greenie zerg wants a freep controlled keep.

Derlan,

over the years of watching this PvMP go up and down (rarely up, usually down) I've found that it really does take "two-to-tango." And I would be very quick to agree with you in saying that normally Freeps push the Creeps, with the one underlining fact that I'm not always online,. So when Creeps talk about how they have to push into EC, TR, camp a rez circle or GV usually its against freeps that don't have the "know-how", nor do they organize and push out. Something about this server and peoples ratings is always been a factor too, Stars have been removed from the game, but still we get screen shots of people on the forums with the "uber 2000 rating." Doesn't mean much to me. Just means they need to start some marathon, because they make for excellent runners .

And I completely agree with the later part of your post. Usually in the mornings (EST) I find it rather slow and not very organized, on both sides. This leads to people normally soloing, running around finding that lonely Creep, until we hear in OOC that some wargpack is in grothum and working its way around the map. But from what I've seen, normally, its the Creeps in TA, and the Freeps pushing into it to get that one or two kills before training out. When its a huge raid on raid I've found that Creeps do very well. Some of the Freeps on this server aren't very good to be honest. I would encourage you all to solo more often as well as engage in more sparring events, it really changes how I play my minstrel, and I find that its for the better.

I don't understand this idea of calling people PvE'rs when they flip keeps and what-not. Of course before the renown/infamy for quests turn-ins, it was just Tokens of Valour/ Destiny Points. I loved fighting through a keep with an overpowering force just to see if we could do it for the evening. The Creeps would also, in the same fashion flip keeps when they were the overpowering force. This drew the outnumbered opponent into their keeps to defend it. I might just be naive but where is the wrong in this? Are people just ninja'ing the keeps just to flip it? Or is this what we assume?

For my part Tarfas when I usually get a band of people together to take a keep or an Out Post its with the intention to draw the creeps to that area. So don't always assume its a person who believes that the only way to get renown/infamy is to flip a keep and do the Hoardale quest!!

Originally Posted by Wilantuk

Rofl my experience in the moors is about 80% of the time the action is dependant on freeps being aggressive and pushing creeps in npcs. So funny how so many people see the same situations differently. This could be totally dependent on my play times I have no idea. The only time I really see aggression is if Bag's on or Bloodloafs on to lead or a greenie zerg wants a freep controlled keep.

Anytime an organized creep force comes out most freeps go into hiding. Most freeps seem content on farming greenies and then hiding and flipping keeps when there is actual fighting to be had.

Proverb the freeps flipping the keeps usually aren't looking for a fight. Example, last night the freeps pretty much disappeared for 15-20m, we ran around, sat around waiting for a fight, SOP flips so we think awesome we'll get a fight, we map/run up there and to our surprise the outpost is completely empty. The freep raids run around the outskirts of the map and drop pull keeps and move out as quick as possible with their quest done to get to the next keep.

There can be a creep raid sitting at TR HS, or ec xroads, easily visible waiting for freeps to come out and fight, and what do you know, ooc is blowing up about freeps drop pulling DG or the message flies up that lugz is now owned by the free people.

flipping OPs during prime times could mean anything a lot of time it is just a soloer flipping it for the quest while everyone else is distracted.

we definitely need more aggressive play out there. seems half of the creeps are wargs worried about their ratings and half of the freeps wont go anywhere without a raid. i dont see that changing but the rest of us can try to make the fights better out there i think we are all tired of fighting in the other side's NPCs.

Back when The Chosen were playing we used to always take SOP and sit on the rock and wait for the creeps to come, they usually did and we had some epic open field fights right there (plus the creeps could map back in, so they had the advantage) Even after they left the Immortals usually mapped in as well and I can remember plenty of good fights right around there with them.

Now half the time you can't get anyone to leave TA, It used to be if a group took the relic the other side would try to stop them or at least get to Dar/Ost and wait for them, but now people just stand at TA like nothing happened.

The map is big, it is there so we can use it. If I am in a group I will never fight at TA unless one of the sides is heavily outnumbered. Lets face it, TA sucks, it always has, nobody ever has any fun fighting there. If you are in a raid and you are sitting at TA, you are doing it wrong, and its the freeps just as much as the creeps.

I always hope SOP flipping means meet at GG/XR and fight it out, actual results vary on Ark but I have had some great fights there.

Creeps, if you want better fights take them to CoT, BV and TRW when the map is red. Freeps, leave EC and find them (better yet, avoid EC all together).

Freeps have a close rez at GV and creeps have multiple map spots within range. This simple change drastically improves the action on a red or "TR only blue" map.

New example: lots of fighting inside and outside of TA, what do a bunch of freeps do?

Go flip isen.

I'll make this short and sweet:

Creeps suck, they always have sucked, and they always will suck. Suck, suck, sucky-suck.

Originally Posted by ppinkham

I'll make this short and sweet:

Creeps suck, they always have sucked, and they always will suck. Suck, suck, sucky-suck.

Kinda like your dps eh? Sorry you're still butt hurt about dying to a r4 warg and r6 wl. We tried to let you leave but you just dragged the fight on and on (lasted upwards of 7 mins?) making us both laugh the entire time . Then, with your sore sphincter in hand, you came back to hoarhallow to get your revenge (or something) and got ganked by 2 more wargs plus the original duo. Thanks for the points.

BTW, if you think creeps suck, trying playing one then tell me what your opinion of the freeps is...hehe (might be singing a different tune if you can make it to rank 5 without giving up)



On topic, my experience with Sop creepside has seen it flipped for a few reasons:

- the freeps just flipped it and we mapped or ran in to try and catch them for a fight, wound up wiping them and flipped it because we already had all the npc's aggro'd and it seemed like the thing to do.

- a group flips it in the hopes of initiating combat (not so common any more).

- someone wants to farm trees by utilizing the 4 (not 12 like freepside) npc's outside.

- a group gets really bored and wants the map to bleed red (also not very common).

My observations of freeps while creepside lean towards their flipping Sop for the following reasons:

- they are too scared to venture beyond EC/GV, even when in superior numbers so they'll resign themselves to flipping the closest thing available. Starting with Sop and moving onto LC if they aren't dead yet. This bears true many, many times. Just Friday, or was it Saturday, the freeps were busy avoiding us nasty creep raid babies (two separate raids of freeps mind you) so we just stood outside of GV waiting for them to return from their latest Pve foray. As luck would have it it was nearby Sop. We immediately ran (not mapped) towards Sop and I even stated over teamspeak to hug the cliff because they'd likely be running right back to GV. Lo and behold that is exactly where we found them, mounted up, hugging the cliffs and riding for their lives. Needless to say we enjoyed the picnic they'd laid out for us.

- flipping to get their daily quest in same as creeps do.

- they wish to use it as a lure for an attempted farm session.

- freeps feeling frisky and want a good fight so they will sit within sight of GG map-in spot. (least common but most desirable)

- a solo mini or warden proving their mettle by besting those npc's yet again. (more common than you'd think. Can't tell you how many times I've run into an Op only to find one freep, usually a guard, warden or mini standing over the fallen tyrant's corpse. I wish I could do that on my creep, lol)

Originally Posted by ppinkham

I'll make this short and sweet:

Creeps suck, they always have sucked, and they always will suck. Suck, suck, sucky-suck.

Its not that they suck, its just that freeps are much much better.

Yummy so much hatred, is this not the same person that I have picnics with?

Ill be the first to admit when creeps raid up, Arkenstone is a creep dominated fighting area. There are many reasons for this, one being when a creep leader logs on a large chunk of freeps log over to join them tipping the balance in creep favor. I personally think creep raids are better then the normal rabble freeps put together.
Honestly Daec you quote fights like it matters man well heres one for ya 5 Aesir grouped up standing at sergeants ramp at least 8-10 ranked creeps fighting them. 3 Ranked creeps die and the rest retreat back across water and run into TA to hide. That happened last time I was in the moors. Talking about random fights around the map that you think creeps look superior in is just stupid man. I never see you fighting against bad odds or not running for the nearest npcs when ya solo and the fights turn south. Everyone hugs npcs its the moors and how the zone was designed. I probably cant name 5 names that are never fighting in NPCs at some point in time. Remember creeps have to put up with freep dps, however freeps have to put up with 8+ wargs at any given time. Most of the creeps playing right now would take their candy and go home if 8 burgs logged on. There is ###### stuff that happens both sides but its a flaw in the zone IMO and not something any forum chatter can correct.

Of course we still will chat about it because we havent anything better to do when the servers are down

Originally Posted by Wilantuk

Ill be the first to admit when creeps raid up, Arkenstone is a creep dominated fighting area. There are many reasons for this, one being when a creep leader logs on a large chunk of freeps log over to join them tipping the balance in creep favor. I personally think creep raids are better then the normal rabble freeps put together.
Honestly Daec you quote fights like it matters man well heres one for ya 5 Aesir grouped up standing at sergeants ramp at least 8-10 ranked creeps fighting them. 3 Ranked creeps die and the rest retreat back across water and run into TA to hide. That happened last time I was in the moors. Talking about random fights around the map that you think creeps look superior in is just stupid man. I never see you fighting against bad odds or not running for the nearest npcs when ya solo and the fights turn south. Everyone hugs npcs its the moors and how the zone was designed. I probably cant name 5 names that are never fighting in NPCs at some point in time. Remember creeps have to put up with freep dps, however freeps have to put up with 8+ wargs at any given time. Most of the creeps playing right now would take their candy and go home if 8 burgs logged on. There is ###### stuff that happens both sides but its a flaw in the zone IMO and not something any forum chatter can correct.

Of course we still will chat about it because we havent anything better to do when the servers are down

Don't assume, and I'm not sure if you are, that the creeps are all grouped up. If I run to an area and I see nothing but creeps dying, I'm not inclined to run into the freeps to donate myself. I'll head in the other direction. As I'm almost always solo, I normally have no idea how a battle is going when I get to it other than what's in OOC and what I see in the combat log. There are other creeps who also routinely solo, so they probably do the same thing.

almost forgot.... 11 am pacific. 2 pm eastern. yaaay!!! /happydance

Last night, our 10 have to push into EC against 15 (they are raided mind you) or more.

We fall back, they follow kill 1 or 2 who got left behind, we turn around to counter push where do they go? straight back into EC.


As for you derlan i know exactly the time you're talking about, but a freep raid hiding from a creep raid of equal or smaller size is far different than 5 grouped up freeps fighting 8 ungrouped (for the most part) creeps.

Its pretty easy to sit over there on your champ and say blah blah blah my group of 5 freeps made a bunch of leaderless creeps run into TA.

As for your little poke at me, if i am at the helm of a raid i will bring the fight as much as possible, outnumbered or not if there is a fight to be had (not a butchering) i will bring my raid to it.

double post, bah

Originally Posted by Wilantuk

Honestly Daec you quote fights like it matters man well heres one for ya 5 Aesir grouped up standing at sergeants ramp at least 8-10 ranked creeps fighting them. 3 Ranked creeps die and the rest retreat back across water and run into TA to hide. That happened last time I was in the moors.

Just wondering what was your group make up. Because if it was something like 1 champ 1 cappie 3 minis, who's gonna stick around for that?

Originally Posted by colefire2

Its not that they suck, its just that freeps are much much better.

Yummy so much hatred, is this not the same person that I have picnics with?

Silly burg, did you not notice I was quick quoting the warden? I merely poked fun at his venom about creeps. Poor thing went to the moors and thought he was still in PvE land where everything drops dead because its programed to.

Could you please take all these negative posts and move them back to the 'Ettenmoors' thread? I prefer not to have to look for the forum trolls anywhere else. k thx

I love you creeps assume freeps are raided up all the time. Ettenmoors its a bad joke at the moment both sides with turbine behind the scenes lapping it up. I envision them smoking cigars laughing "they acctually pay money for this!" Ettenmoors will never be a decent pvp zone and no amount of pissing and moaning in the forums will make it so.

Hootch
Re: south outpost

I hide in TA all the time no matter the numbers enjoy it! k thx

Though the forums are great for trolling and outright lies which is always exciting.

I have never claimed to be Tharros, Falcon, Munny or any of the "great leaders" I actually consider myself to be slightly above par. I cant speak for others. Only for myself, when Im leading and my byrd reads "lead". I, if Im outnumbered severly or if I want a change of scenary, will flip an op or a keep. Usually I wont if Im getting points with open field fights. Although its often boring, I usually have no issue staying at ta. I do try to move it around. And it seems Im one of the few people that leads pugs in the moors anymore (besides the great Tharros, my mentor) and alot of the times we (freeps) arnt nearly as organized as we could be. I understand kin raids, but there are nights when I cant get into another raid unless I form one. I spend about as much time in group as I do solo, but Ive learned the hard way that especially during prime time, its not easy to solo. Also, I think of ec as a death trap and honestly, if I have no other place besides gv, ost or ec, and I have a small group and I am outnumberd, then yes I will flip an op because I find its easier to defend. Im not ragging on anyone. The first time you enter the moors it warns you that your in a pvp zone. To me its a conflict zone. Any chance or thing I can do, besides blatently cheating, that improves my chance of success, Im going to do it. I think both sides sometimes hug npc's. I think both sides r less aggressive when certain leaders arnt on and more aggresive when they are on. Its like a football team. The team feels better when the starting qb is in play. But when he isnt, and some poor sob gotta try to lead (which is how I got my start btw) you worry. Is this guy going to do anybetter than what I would do? R we going to feed them? Everyone likes to win. Nobody likes to lose. I dont often write in the forums. But because Im one of the freeps that take sop often, I figured Id tell you why I do. Once again, Im only talking for myself when Im leading. Now if the numbers are even or close to it, or we are getting good points, I wont pve. But if we want a rez or if there is a lull in the action (especially since Im working on my last piece of audacity gear) yeah, I'll take the map. But I will stand and fight, open field or not, if I think I have a chance and arnt leading my group into a certain lose. I have, in the three years in the moors, never had over a 1.650 rating. Ive never been above 11 to 1 kill/death ratio. I have over 6000 deaths on Elruin. Im not proud of it, but I think the numbers speak for themselves. I dont mind dieing. I dont mind killing. It bugs me though if I cant get points for my group. So yeah, if I think that I have to take a op or a keep or fight at ec, I will take it. Thank you all for your patience and I will continue to do my best when Im on and lead anyone, from any kin, thats willing to fight hard by my side. And if your a creep on your freep, I have no issue inviting you (certain creeps will attest to this) so long as when your on my team your fully on my team for that time period. Thank you and keep the good fights coming. And I hope that I helped answer your question. At least from my perspective

Originally Posted by Wilantuk

I love you creeps assume freeps are raided up all the time. Ettenmoors its a bad joke at the moment both sides with turbine behind the scenes lapping it up. I envision them smoking cigars laughing "they acctually pay money for this!" Ettenmoors will never be a decent pvp zone and no amount of pissing and moaning in the forums will make it so.



Though the forums are great for trolling and outright lies which is always exciting.

This may be true at certain points, but when i give an example, i know for a fact freeps are raided up.

QQ post about why both sides are a bunch of pansies. I'm gonna have to agree with pugga, everyone should know by now to whine at eachother in the ettenmoors thread, not a thread seeing what people think about flipping south outpost.

Originally Posted by Metrolightning

Kinda like your dps eh? Sorry you're still butt hurt about dying to a r4 warg and r6 wl. We tried to let you leave but you just dragged the fight on and on (lasted upwards of 7 mins?) making us both laugh the entire time . Then, with your sore sphincter in hand, you came back to hoarhallow to get your revenge (or something) and got ganked by 2 more wargs plus the original duo. Thanks for the points.

The best part about this post is that I have no idea who you are talking about. I haven't actually played the game in months.