Thread: Encouraging Mark

We have a mark that gives a small amount of Morale to players who hit the target, but we don't have one that gives a lesser-amount of Power. We can trait for power-back on our Rallying Cry, and if you noticed it's smaller than the Morale given. So I think if they added a mark like this it should return less Power than the mark that returns Morale.

Originally Posted by Graycient

ENCOURAGING MARK

Fast - 40m Range
Tactical Skill

You leave a Mark on your enemy
that will renew the Power of your
companions when they wound
the target. You may only mark
one target at a time.

On any damage:
Return 10% of damage (or 1-5% if this is too high)

Cost: 69 Power
Toggle Skill

Cooldown: 10s

Thoughts?

10% its too much...we already have the brother skills for power restore...
I woud like telling marks to stack per cappy for dps race bosses

And again 10% its too much..

I would suggest for a mark for +3% crit chance

1% power return would be fine. 3-5% would definately be too much.

we already have the brother skills for power restore...

For everyone around? hmm?

1% power return would be fine. 3-5% would definately be too much.

Do you have any idea how low 3-5% really is? Might not be too terribly bad for a hunter, but for a Captain hitting it would be a sad moment in Middle-Earth. (Receives 5 power... doh!). But yes it would be lower, of course. Maybe 2-4%.

When doing the percentages, assume something has 2k DPS, because the power return must be balanced for the DPSers.

10% is 200 PPS, which is waaaaay to much.

Even at 5%, that's 100 PPS, and still way too much (full power bar for most classes in half a minute).

Really, there's no way to balance this idea because a low enough percentage is like a "Somebody Else's Problem" field on the buff.

Yeah. Basically, outside of a few debuffing effects that mobs apply (usually avoidable or pot-able), the only drain on power is player actions. This is in contrast to morale, which of course is regularly drained by enemy attacks. Because of this, the overall rate of power drain for any given character is far, far less than their morale drain if they're under attack.

Also, since the suggestion is for a reflection effect, what Almagnus says comes into play. Just look at some of the Captain skills, for instance. Defensive Strike/Sure Strike will deal on the order of 1000 damage on a normal hit, and both cost less than 100 power. You can easily crit for a lot more, and then you have to consider skills like Shadow's Lament and Devastating Blow that have an increased critical multiplier... 10% makes even DS/SS free and any bigger skill give a net power gain.

And that's us! A real DPS class will put out a lot more and thus gain a lot more back. Even at 1% reflected, that's a massive power gain, exceeding what a Lore-Master can do, at no cost to the Captain.

Plus, it's honestly not needed. Blade-Brother and Song-Brother both return quite a lot of power, in addition to Now for Wrath. My power-per-second as measured by Combat Analysis hits around 100 in HoH, 50-75 otherwise. Of course, that's total output, not per-character... Now consider that the per-character PPS generated by a 1% power reflect would be 10-20% of the fellowship-wide PPS in HoH, depending on the character role.

Oh, except for one thing... The character who most needs a steady flow of power to prevent a wipe is the healer, and they're not benefiting from the power reflect mark at all.

Originally Posted by Tangaar

10% its too much...we already have the brother skills for power restore...
I woud like telling marks to stack per cappy for dps race bosses

And again 10% its too much..

I would suggest for a mark for +3% crit chance

I tend to agree with this guy, at least on his first point.

Captains already have a lot of ways to recover power. I don't really think we need any more. Though to be honest I don't really see what the harm would be in adding a mark like this. So guess i'm neutral on this idea.

Originally Posted by Tangaar

10% its too much...we already have the brother skills for power restore...
I woud like telling marks to stack per cappy for dps race bosses

And again 10% its too much..

I would suggest for a mark for +3% crit chance

Nice idea and please with a bonus from Master of War that gives +2% or more crit for this spell or even better make tettelling mark
gives also + 3% crit when equiped.

Originally Posted by Thaodan

Nice idea and please with a bonus from Master of War that gives +2% or more crit for this spell or even better make tettelling mark
gives also + 3% crit when equiped.

But we really don't need a fourth mark because the current three have nice symmetry with the major roles:
Healing => Revealing Mark
Tanking => Noble Mark
DPS => Telling Mark

However, I can see where some would want a fourth mark, for our support role.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

But we really don't need a fourth mark because the current three have nice symmetry with the major roles:
Healing => Revealing Mark
Tanking => Noble Mark
DPS => Telling Mark

However, I can see where some would want a fourth mark, for our support role.

True, the way with the +3% crit on Telling Mark with MoW woud be the best way I think.

This idea came up a few months ago...

mixed emotions about it from various people, the conclusion was that it wasn't very necessary.
The main thing I like about it is that it would make a 3rd captain more useful in a raid.

Frankly don't really have an opinion one way or another. Just saying it's come up before, need to search for the topic.

yes to crit mark, no to power mark.

Originally Posted by DuneBug

This idea came up a few months ago...

mixed emotions about it from various people, the conclusion was that it wasn't very necessary.
The main thing I like about it is that it would make a 3rd captain more useful in a raid.

Frankly don't really have an opinion one way or another. Just saying it's come up before, need to search for the topic.

Yeah, IMO the marks we have work quite well as-is, both from a standpoint of power level and design intent. While I'm not opposed to a fourth type of mark, at the same time I think the devs' attention would be better spent on the aspects of the class that aren't working quite so well right now.

Could possibly tie small upgrades of the marks to the capstone traits.

Red Cap- Telling Mark increases crit chance on the mob by a small % (2 or 3%)

Blue Cap- Revealing Mark reflects a power restore (1-2%?)

Yellow Cap- Noble Mark reflects an armor buff

Just throwing ideas around.

No need of new marks think of old men like me, we dont need more to remember

With a well geared and played captain a power returning mark isn't necessary. And the person needing the power most will be unaffected by it anyway. If I don't get unlucky on crits, my power actually goes up rather than down. The only thing I really want when it comes to marks, is to have them stackable. Other changes simply aren't needed.

I want a mark with a .001% chance on damage to change a mob into a neekerbreeker. If the mob is already a neekerbreeker, it turns into a nemesis cargul.

The Midgewater Marsh has never been so interesting.

Originally Posted by Frisco

I want a mark with a .001% chance on damage to change a mob into a neekerbreeker. If the mob is already a neekerbreeker, it turns into a nemesis cargul.

The Midgewater Marsh has never been so interesting.

How about a marky mark, small chance of turning the mob into this

Much scarier than a cargul, imo.

fold it into revealing and im onboard.
otherwise, no.
cuz, opportunity cost, yo!


and i agree with the 1%ers (wait, that doesnt sound right...)



edit: OMG! i posted before i saw Marky "Hate Crime" Mark. thats hilarious!

come on, come on!

Originally Posted by butterfingers158

Could possibly tie small upgrades of the marks to the capstone traits.

Red Cap- Telling Mark increases crit chance on the mob by a small % (2 or 3%)

Blue Cap- Revealing Mark reflects a power restore (1-2%?)

Yellow Cap- Noble Mark reflects an armor buff

Just throwing ideas around.

Nice idea, like ideas of skills that where changed by line specific traits.

I've seen other classes (eg. burgs) unhappy about Turbine's stance adoptions and I'd prefer not to see our flexibility diminished in order to increase our trait-line effectiveness (if I've read/interpreted the OP correctly)?

How often have I rocked up in an instance, having asked by the leader to retrait blue, to find that the other captain's Telling Mark is 5% (mine's currently 9.2 while I 'enjoy' another LI grind)? I've learnt to converse with the other cappie once I arrive it's easily resolved: the blue cappie placing Telling, the red/yellow placing Revealing.

OP: would your trait-line focus diminish the effectiveness of my blue-line/Telling Mark arrangement?

How about instead of having it as a fixed percentage of the damage dealt (like Telling Mark) it would be closer to Noble Mark, with a buff that gets applied every time you damage the marked mob. And this buff would reduced power costs by 10% or something similar.

This way we would have 2 marks that are based on how much damage you do and 2 marks that rely on you hitting the mob to receive the buff.

Originally Posted by Aldhissla_EU

How about instead of having it as a fixed percentage of the damage dealt (like Telling Mark) it would be closer to Noble Mark, with a buff that gets applied every time you damage the marked mob. And this buff would reduced power costs by 10% or something similar.

This way we would have 2 marks that are based on how much damage you do and 2 marks that rely on you hitting the mob to receive the buff.

I like it =)

Originally Posted by Graycient

We have a mark that gives a small amount of Morale to players who hit the target, but we don't have one that gives a lesser-amount of Power. We can trait for power-back on our Rallying Cry, and if you noticed it's smaller than the Morale given. So I think if they added a mark like this it should return less Power than the mark that returns Morale.




Thoughts?

It's unnecessary. You shouldn't have a problem simply using Blade-brother or Song-brother to support your fellow's power in conjunction with Focus in more extreme situations. Giving us a power-returning mark would replace the Brother skills with something boring and passive. None of my fellowships ever have trouble managing their power when they have a smart Captain supporting them.

Now you may argue that two brother skills have their own corresponding marks: Shield-brother and Revealing Mark for healing support, and Blade-brother and Telling Mark for damage support. Why then does Song-brother not have a power-restoring mark to augment it?

The answer involves game balance. Power is a resource that all classes rely on, and power management is a key element of LotRO's gameplay. An attentive Captain already buffs his fellowship's power restoration to the point where none of its members need to use power pots in even the longest fights, though at the cost of being able to effectively heal or buff damage. To add a power restoring mark would just make it too passive and easy.

Originally Posted by GeorgeBaggy

It's unnecessary. You shouldn't have a problem simply using Blade-brother or Song-brother to support your fellow's power in conjunction with Focus in more extreme situations. Giving us a power-returning mark would replace the Brother skills with something boring and passive. None of my fellowships ever have trouble managing their power when they have a smart Captain supporting them.

Now you may argue that two brother skills have their own corresponding marks: Shield-brother and Revealing Mark for healing support, and Blade-brother and Telling Mark for damage support. Why then does Song-brother not have a power-restoring mark to augment it?

The answer involves game balance. Power is a resource that all classes rely on, and power management is a key element of LotRO's gameplay. An attentive Captain already buffs his fellowship's power restoration to the point where none of its members need to use power pots in even the longest fights, though at the cost of being able to effectively heal or buff damage. To add a power restoring mark would just make it too passive and easy.

I've thought about this idea some and I've come to the same conclusion you have. It would simplify things too much.

Not to mention adding a mark like this would would greatly diminish the use of our power buffs and power banners.