Thread: Taunt and non-combat rezz

Why we got no taunt (without traiting yellow) as a class that have to support the tank, the dps or the healer?
In my opionion i think a non-combat rezz woud be nice too.

Er? Threatening Shout exists. It's not great unless you trait up the yellow line, but it's a taunt. We also have Aggressive Stance, which increases our perceived threat by 10%, and Noble Mark, which gives threat over time and reflects a -10% perceived threat buff to our allies.

We do lack somewhat in AoE threat, even with the Echoing Shout trait, but it's simply incorrect to say that we don't have a taunt at all.

Agreed on the out-of-combat res, though. That's definitely something that would be very handy, especially since we can otherwise fill the main healer role in 3- and 6-mans pretty effectively. I'd like to see the cooldown removed from Escape from Darkness when it's used out of combat.

Originally Posted by Thaodan

Why we got no taunt (without traiting yellow) as a class that have to support the tank, the dps or the healer?
In my opionion i think a non-combat rezz woud be nice too.

Well aside from threatening shout as the other poster named, you also have that one melee attack that acts as a taunt. I believe it's called Grave Wound or something like that - and it snatches threat pretty effectively. I know because I've accidentally used it before during a fight and it got some unwanted boss attention pretty quick lol

It's +10% perceived threat (grave wound). Traited it becomes a force taunt. Captain tanking relies far too much on force taunts in my opinion

Originally Posted by Uron

It's +10% perceived threat (grave wound). Traited it becomes a force taunt. Captain tanking relies far too much on force taunts in my opinion

Yeah, I tend to agree, particularly for AoE. We need two specific traits to have any AoE tanking capability at all. Not just to improve it, but to even have it. And one of those is a force taunt! Tanks do need force taunts, of course, but our actual threat generation beyond a single target is kind of lacking still.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Well aside from threatening shout as the other poster named, you also have that one melee attack that acts as a taunt. I believe it's called Grave Wound or something like that - and it snatches threat pretty effectively. I know because I've accidentally used it before during a fight and it got some unwanted boss attention pretty quick lol

I meant a real taunt no a attack that does just threat or more threat than others.

Originally Posted by Thaodan

I meant a real taunt no a attack that does just threat or more threat than others.

Like Threatening Shout?

Yeah, that's literally the whole reason Threatening Shout exists.

Originally Posted by Thaodan

I meant a real taunt no a attack that does just threat or more threat than others.

I see.

I think threatening shout is a "forced" taunt, but I could be wrong about that. I don't have much experience when it comes to tanking as a Captain.

For some reading that may be wondering... what exactly is a taunt?

As far as the OOC Rez go: yes, very much so.

Threatening Shout is not a force taunt, it is an attack that has a threat component and nothing else (which is how I would define 'taunt'). It does not take aggro by force, it only moves you up on the threat list.

Originally Posted by Nakiami

Threatening Shout is not a force taunt, it is an attack that has a threat component and nothing else (which is how I would define 'taunt'). It does not take aggro by force, it only moves you up on the threat list.

I see. Well I guess that makes sense now that I think about it, because I remember using this abilty before and not getting the aggro actually - but I figured it was just resisted or something...

But what about Improved Grave Wound?

That ability seems to always get me threat when I use it.

If Grave Wound isn't a forced taunt either - this poster may be one to something and maybe Captains do need a forced taunt at their disposal.

Originally Posted by Nakiami

Threatening Shout is not a force taunt, it is an attack that has a threat component and nothing else (which is how I would define 'taunt'). It does not take aggro by force, it only moves you up on the threat list.

That meshes with what I know of taunts and such...

What gets LtC captains in trouble is the CA => GW +Perceived threat buff. While I can't think of a time when the perceived threat buff got me in trouble (thanks to keeping up the bleeds in HoH), I can sorta see how it could be problematic with other HoH captains. Either way, this is starting to make the case for Withdrawal not being as useless as many think it is.

Traited Routing Cry is a force taunt.

Curring Attack followed by Grave Wound causes Aggressive Stance, +10% perceived threat.

Traiting 4 LoM causes IGW to become a force taunt.

So that's two.

The problem with the LoM Tank is our only taunt doesn't catch enough targets.

Like we're excellent single target tanks, but completely worthless in the final fight of Hele:Spider.

Let's not even get into agro switching fights....

Originally Posted by Nakiami

Traited Routing Cry is a force taunt.

Curring Attack followed by Grave Wound causes Aggressive Stance, +10% perceived threat.

Traiting 4 LoM causes IGW to become a force taunt.

So that's two.

So the OP is basically correct then when he says Captains have no forced-taunt unless we trait into yellow. I think that's what he was trying to say.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

So the OP is basically correct then when he says Captains have no forced-taunt unless we trait into yellow. I think that's what he was trying to say.

No forced-taunts, no. We have taunts. The distinction is rather valid, especially as the context of the OP does not specify that it's asking about forced as opposed to regular taunts.

I meant taunt that forces the enemy to attack me, that is what i think that a taunt is.

Originally Posted by Thaodan

I meant taunt that forces the enemy to attack me, that is what i think that a taunt is.

That would be either Traited Grave Wound, or Traited Routing Cry - for single target and AE respectively.

Gauging by the fact his avatar is a warcraft paladin I am going to venture he means a taunt like they work in WoW and in this game the only taunt that functions that way is the guardian's engage.

I just want to point out that some of these non-yellow taunts that have been mentioned lag so far behind DPS output that they shouldn't even be mentioned as taunts because even if you spam them you can't out aggro competent DPS.

I think threatening shout makes about 2.500 worth of threat. Gonna test it out again some but I think that's the number I had come down to. Threaten shout + CA/GW combination will get mob's attention if it hasn't accidentally been hit by a big number or the healer hasn't gone nuts. An easy example I can think of is RoF boss 1, a cleaver gets away from tank and goes for the healer, you can quickly snatch it. Captains aggro will work only for situations like this.

And to add to the original post, no I don't think we need a taunt or an ooc rez. Not while the game still has some class variations left.

Originally Posted by Despotis

I think threatening shout makes about 2.500 worth of threat. Gonna test it out again some but I think that's the number I had come down to. Threaten shout + CA/GW combination will get mob's attention if it hasn't accidentally been hit by a big number or the healer hasn't gone nuts. An easy example I can think of is RoF boss 1, a cleaver gets away from tank and goes for the healer, you can quickly snatch it. Captains aggro will work only for situations like this.

And to add to the original post, no I don't think we need a taunt or an ooc rez. Not while the game still has some class variations left.

I meant for example the healer gets attacked in thes situation we're not able to save the healers/rdps live cause we got no force
taunt, as a class that shoud able to be an assist tank.
As you say about class variations the rune-keeper got an skill to dispell horror like the minstrel have (ist this the right translation of 'grauen'?) with the latest patch. so what about class variations?

You can do a force taunt, you just need to trait for it. That's how it should be. If off-tanking is important to you, trait for it. If off-healing is important to you, trait for that. If off-DPS is important to you, trait for that. We can do a little bit of everything all the time, but if you want to actually be competent in a specialised task, you need to specialise your build.

Originally Posted by furtim

You can do a force taunt, you just need to trait for it. That's how it should be. If off-tanking is important to you, trait for it. If off-healing is important to you, trait for that. If off-DPS is important to you, trait for that. We can do a little bit of everything all the time, but if you want to actually be competent in a specialised task, you need to specialise your build.

When i trait for an role I think that I shoud be able to do work in being more than an assist (and not so good like a class that does this roll
as main roll) and not do all rolles worse and the traited roll in lvl of an assist.

Originally Posted by Thaodan

When i trait for an role I think that I shoud be able to do work in being more than an assist (and not so good like a class that does this roll
as main roll) and not do all rolles worse and the traited roll in lvl of an assist.

As much as I hate to agree with Furtim Thaodam, I kind of do.

It's not really such a bad thing that you have to trait into Lead of Men to obtain "forced-taunts". It helps add to the value of an already rarely played trait-line. So if you want to be effective at support-tanking and protecting vulnerable members in your fellowship - simply go Leader of Men.

That being said though I'm liking this thread. It's helping to point out some of the strengths of Leader of Men, and maybe encourage some captains to play it. I'd love to see more of these around - because they are pratically extinct on my server.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

I'd love to see more of these around - because they are pratically extinct on my server.

A LoM tank is the equal to any of the others with single target tanking.

Case in point, in my tanking setup, I was able to hold agro against a guard for most of the stuff in the Limlight Gorge prereqs.

The downside with LoM tanking comes with AE threat production (and thus multi target tanking), and agro swaps. Multi-target tanking is the big reason you don't see many LoM tanks, and something that needs to be address. Agro swaps are just icing on the cake at this point, IMO.