Played a creep on BR for a bit, didn't notice any dps/mit changes
If you're really worried about a whole +2DPS on a 75FA, perhaps you should be looking to improve your skills.
Sure, you'll see more DPS that's similiar to FAs, but its not quite a FA, and they dont have the LI points to play with anyway. Life will continue just fine.
The FA's aren't the main problem... it's all those people running around with SA (yes they still exist and far outnumber the FAs atm) that will now be as a FA. So while not being a 12% increase overall i'd still guess the average damage taken will increase ~8% (counted on multiple fights)
If you're really worried about a whole +2DPS on a 75FA, perhaps you should be looking to improve your skills.
Sure, you'll see more DPS that's similiar to FAs, but its not quite a FA, and they dont have the LI points to play with anyway. Life will continue just fine.
Played a creep on BR for a bit, didn't notice any dps/mit changes
Can I assume it was an r15 creep with maxed battlefield promotions/audacity?
I for one don't feel it'll make a huge difference to the already ranked creeps, but new creeps and lowbies are REALLY gonna feel it, if they have 1 audacity and very few BP
I don't mean to slight Crell, who is a wealth of information on various topics, but he's f2p and so doesn't have a ton of experience in the moors...
Its just math. Creeps have already been dealing with FAs for some time. AT worst 3 crystals @ 75 2A DPS maxed will come CLOSE to a base FA DPS.
They wont have the extra LI points to spend either.. Sure the huge leap in 65 items looked like a cause for concern, but its nothing to be worried about at 75.
Its just math. Creeps have already been dealing with FAs for some time. AT worst 3 crystals @ 75 2A DPS maxed will come CLOSE to a base FA DPS.
They wont have the extra LI points to spend either.. Sure the huge leap in 65 items looked like a cause for concern, but its nothing to be worried about at 75.
Awful assumptions, really. If you don't pvp then you shouldn't comment on how the dynamics of Crystals will affect PvMP. "Dealing with FA's for some time" - Sorry but on smaller servers there were 1 or 2 1st ages until the lootbox fiasco, and the majority of freeps still do not have 1st agers.
Tactical damage on 1st ages has roughly a 5% increase with these crystals, if you PvMP'd then you would know there are an abundance of tactical freeps out there.
LI points mean very little when building PvP LI's not to mention when skilled players can/will hotswap.
And what this means going forward... at 85, freeps will have access to top tier DPS fairly quickly. ToO at least was a barrier to that, removed by the introduction of these crystals. Its great for PvE and the non raiders, but it has no justification in PvMP without a corresponding boost to Creep side.
Its just math. Creeps have already been dealing with FAs for some time. AT worst 3 crystals @ 75 2A DPS maxed will come CLOSE to a base FA DPS.
They wont have the extra LI points to spend either.. Sure the huge leap in 65 items looked like a cause for concern, but its nothing to be worried about at 75.
Considering one side is getting a increase in dps and the other isn't then yes it is something to be worried about. Why should freeps get a dps boost when creeps are getting nothing in return.
Awful assumptions, really. If you don't pvp then you shouldn't comment on how the dynamics of Crystals will affect PvMP. "Dealing with FA's for some time" - Sorry but on smaller servers there were 1 or 2 1st ages until the lootbox fiasco, and the majority of freeps still do not have 1st agers.
Tactical damage on 1st ages has roughly a 5% increase with these crystals, if you PvMP'd then you would know there are an abundance of tactical freeps out there.
LI points mean very little when building PvP LI's not to mention when skilled players can/will hotswap.
And what this means going forward... at 85, freeps will have access to top tier DPS fairly quickly. ToO at least was a barrier to that, removed by the introduction of these crystals. Its great for PvE and the non raiders, but it has no justification in PvMP without a corresponding boost to Creep side.
What if these crystals aren't functional in the 'Moors?
That would at least put an emphasis on getting the FA for the 'Moors, and still keep most of the heavy PvMPers interested in raiding.
The reason nothing happens and freeps get yet another boost over creeps is you have guys like R0 Crell who is most likely in Palantir dictating what is and isn't balanced on their own little forums. They set up pointless non realistic 12v12 fights with one healer per side and the majority of palantir testers are just terrible PvE players part-timing for Moors testing and whoever can spam post gets their point across.
Regardless of how little they know of PvP or what it is like to be a creep in the moors (FA tactical classes with crystals get a ~5%+ boost to already high DPS) or that (the majority of freep players are casuals who only log in when they can zerg the map to flip keeps for commendations i.e. have second agers).
Freeps will get another store 'convenience' and Creeps will be off to GW2.
I'm not surprised there's nothing, creeps ALREADY needed compensation for how large the disparity already is. Turbine simply doesn't care. Minstrels, RKs, hunters, and champs all commonly hit for 4k+... which is outrageous, they can 4-5 shot some creep characters.
Audacity really doesn't do #### for creeps, what needs to be done is 1. Massive DPS boost for some classes (Reavers, Defilers, and WLs mainly, around 50%+). 2. Massive DPS nerf (-30% regular hits, -50% critical multiplier) within the moors for the classes I listed, excluding hunters because they need that DPS for how squishy they are... every other class hits reasonably. 3. Changes to some skills/more healing from defilers and WLs, to put them a little closer to being on par with captains and minstrels (so only like 20%+). 4. Mitigation nerf to guardians and wardens, it's ridiculous that they can basically take on 6 or 7 creeps without heals (-30% at least).
I'm not surprised there's nothing, creeps ALREADY needed compensation for how large the 4. Mitigation nerf to guardians and wardens, it's ridiculous that they can basically take on 6 or 7 creeps without heals (-30% at least).
Rlyy? nerf warden mitigations when warden have 50% cap (50% warden have when going to blue+tank items in this situation warden cant DPS remember this!) and nerf it to light armor mitigations? (to 20% oO) LOL and nerf then warden DPS when yea warden have alot DPS!
Pls change game u dont know what u typing here.
PS: u dont know anything about warden i see, loot at creeps morale and freeps morale and then start saying something about boost creeps DPS by 50 or more %
The reason nothing happens and freeps get yet another boost over creeps is you have guys like R0 Crell who is most likely in Palantir dictating what is and isn't balanced on their own little forums. They set up pointless non realistic 12v12 fights with one healer per side and the majority of palantir testers are just terrible PvE players part-timing for Moors testing and whoever can spam post gets their point across.
I find it insulting that you think I'm in Palantir or that even if I were that I'm aren't aware of things like the the mini packs which are so common in our server. I do look at the larger picture. Where's your balancing feature you say? How about that the Creeps have been able to buy their skills in the lotro store for some time. Call this the Freep equivalent if you like Going up against R10 skills just because the other player can swipe their credit card, the Freep now has a permanent item buff he can apply to help deal with this increased damage acquired by creep purchasers of skills. One I might add that he can get relatively easily by engaging in group PvE sized content. Best odds being in raid sized content (ToO T1/T2, Helegrod, Skirm Raids (T1/T2/T3)..)
Obviously this had enough support in Palantir to make it to the public beta to hear about. I imagine plenty of things get squashed ever before reaching us.
Devs might play out in the Moors. That doesn't mean they know how to play their toons worth a lick. So you have these devs who are worse than casual players who don't even know what each class does and they are the one adding changes to the Moors...sounds brilliant.
Last edited by timmyloo22546; May 13 2012 at 11:31 AM.
Reason: fail spelling
I find it insulting that you think I'm in Palantir or that even if I were that I'm aren't aware of things like the the mini packs which are so common in our server. I do look at the larger picture. Where's your balancing feature you say? How about that the Creeps have been able to buy their skills in the lotro store for some time. Call this the Freep equivalent if you like Going up against R10 skills just because the other player can swipe their credit card, the Freep now has a permanent item buff he can apply to help deal with this increased damage acquired by creep purchasers of skills. One I might add that he can get relatively easily by engaging in group PvE sized content. Best odds being in raid sized content (ToO T1/T2, Helegrod, Skirm Raids (T1/T2/T3)..)
Obviously this had enough support in Palantir to make it to the public beta to hear about. I imagine plenty of things get squashed ever before reaching us.
The devs PvMP too you know.
(Non-Subscribers are ineligible for Palantir)
What's throwing people is the lack of PvMP rank in your sig....
How about that the Creeps have been able to buy their skills in the lotro store for some time. Call this the Freep equivalent if you like Going up against R10 skills just because the other player can swipe their credit card
What is the issue with creeps being able to purchase skills from the store? It's not as if freeps haven't purchased stat tomes, virtues, emp scrolls, etc. from the store to further their own toons.
As for the crystals, freep DPS is already an issue in the Moors. I can kill any creep in 10s or less on my hunter. It doesn't matter how much morale or aud they have. Freep DPS is an issue in the Moors. The crystals are just going to make it a bigger issue. Your attitude towards this and inability to understand why its an issue compliments your rank perfectly. Obviously you've no clue about anything in the Ettenmoors or the issues that are specific to the zone. How do you justify commenting on the subject with that rank 0 in your sig lol.
look at creeps morale and freeps morale and then start saying something about boost creeps DPS by 50 or more %
^Obviously no exp in the moors. I've seen plenty of r0 creeps with higher morale than my rank 5er - but guess what, I have a huge mitigation and dps advantage. I'm only r5, so it's not like I have a ton of time of moors time logged, but even I can easily see that morale is not even a slightly good indicator of relative dps.
I think a lot of the problem in the moors continues to be multiple advancement paths for freeps, and the same daily repeatables or zerging as the only options for creep advancement. Creep advancement is also limited as being functional in pvp only - while freeps are going to go out and level up and re-equip with a new zone/expac primarily for the pve benefits, and when they do pvp that provides benefits for when they later pve. So you can see there's a disparancy, where VIPs have more encouragement to level their freep in the moors than to start grinding neekerbeekers and gathering twigs for a character they can only use for pvp content.
Call this the Freep equivalent if you like Going up against R10 skills just because the other player can swipe their credit card, the Freep now has a permanent item buff he can apply to help deal with this increased damage acquired by creep purchasers of skills.
Haha try rolling a rank 0 reaver and buying every purchasable skill, for $100 or whatever it would add up to. You will find pretty quickly that you're just about as strong as a level 60-65 freep because 75% of the rank benefits come from Battlefield Promotions and Audacity, not the skills. I would strongly recommended PVPing before commenting on PVP.
**edit** and as other posters have noted, freeps are able to buy all kinds of things from the store already. I'm not sure how the introduction of additional freep buffs is meant to counteract creeps' ability to purchase skills that was introduced almost a year ago.
Freeps: r8 Mini
Creeps: r10 Reaver, r8 WL, r8 Defiler, r8 Warg, r7 Spider, r6 BA
Overall this could be a good thing for the moors....IF devs bothered to "balance" sides.
My way of thinking....
With audacity, and now crystals, devs can assume freep X in the moors has the audacity armor set, and the DPS equiv of a first age (+/- a couple %) and use this as the basis for setting balance between sides. They've been reducing the variables on freepside, which theoretically should make it easier to "balance". It just comes down to if they decide to put the effort in balancing it, and what "balance" they look for....many would like it 1:1 (or close to it), but I'm going to say many more don't - and at the moment I would argue it is pretty far off even numbered balance.
Somewhat related: "greenie" creeps are getting the short end of the stick again....they are already in a terrible position (audacity, comms, finesse etc) and now the "average" freep opponents DPS is going up even further. Low ranked creep experience needs a rework badly imo.
I find it insulting that you think I'm in Palantir or that even if I were that I'm aren't aware of things like the the mini packs which are so common in our server. I do look at the larger picture. Where's your balancing feature you say? How about that the Creeps have been able to buy their skills in the lotro store for some time. Call this the Freep equivalent if you like Going up against R10 skills just because the other player can swipe their credit card, the Freep now has a permanent item buff he can apply to help deal with this increased damage acquired by creep purchasers of skills. One I might add that he can get relatively easily by engaging in group PvE sized content. Best odds being in raid sized content (ToO T1/T2, Helegrod, Skirm Raids (T1/T2/T3)..)
Obviously this had enough support in Palantir to make it to the public beta to hear about. I imagine plenty of things get squashed ever before reaching us.
The devs PvMP too you know.
(Non-Subscribers are ineligible for Palantir)
How does creeps buying skills compare to giving freeps a dps boost to add to the higher dps they already have? Creeps buying skills made the moors a little bit closer to even, because unlike a 75 freep entering moors for the first time who has all their skills ready to go, a newly created creep has #### without the store.
Your commenting about how since creeps have dealt with first agers this isn't much of a dps increase. Well what about all of the other freeps in the moors who come out with second agers. On my server I'd say this is a majority of freeps. With the crystals being added to their weapon, now most of my server gaining more damage which will lead to an overall huge increase in dps for freepside. While creepside just has to get their audacity (which freeps can do as well) and hope for the best.
I find it insulting that you think I'm in Palantir or that even if I were that I'm aren't aware of things like the the mini packs which are so common in our server. I do look at the larger picture. Where's your balancing feature you say? How about that the Creeps have been able to buy their skills in the lotro store for some time. Call this the Freep equivalent if you like Going up against R10 skills just because the other player can swipe their credit card, the Freep now has a permanent item buff he can apply to help deal with this increased damage acquired by creep purchasers of skills. One I might add that he can get relatively easily by engaging in group PvE sized content. Best odds being in raid sized content (ToO T1/T2, Helegrod, Skirm Raids (T1/T2/T3)..)
Obviously this had enough support in Palantir to make it to the public beta to hear about. I imagine plenty of things get squashed ever before reaching us.
The devs PvMP too you know.
(Non-Subscribers are ineligible for Palantir)
I seriously doubt any devs regularly PvMP creep-side. Otherwise, they would realize what a mess they were making with the commendation system, especially for fresh creeps. Not to mention all of the balance issues that go on and on.
As for being able to buy skills, it's the only way for the vast majority of creeps to get all of their skills. How many Rank 15s are there? After five years. If after five years most of the freeps didn't have access to all their skills yet, this game would be dead.
I seriously doubt any devs regularly PvMP creep-side. Otherwise, they would realize what a mess they were making with the commendation system, especially for fresh creeps. Not to mention all of the balance issues that go on and on.
As for being able to buy skills, it's the only way for the vast majority of creeps to get all of their skills. How many Rank 15s are there? After five years. If after five years most of the freeps didn't have access to all their skills yet, this game would be dead.
All commendation purchasable armor pieces and skills needs to have their purchase prices halved.
I find it insulting that you think I'm in Palantir or that even if I were that I'm aren't aware of things like the the mini packs which are so common in our server. I do look at the larger picture. Where's your balancing feature you say? How about that the Creeps have been able to buy their skills in the lotro store for some time. Call this the Freep equivalent if you like Going up against R10 skills just because the other player can swipe their credit card, the Freep now has a permanent item buff he can apply to help deal with this increased damage acquired by creep purchasers of skills. One I might add that he can get relatively easily by engaging in group PvE sized content. Best odds being in raid sized content (ToO T1/T2, Helegrod, Skirm Raids (T1/T2/T3)..)
Obviously this had enough support in Palantir to make it to the public beta to hear about. I imagine plenty of things get squashed ever before reaching us.
The devs PvMP too you know.
(Non-Subscribers are ineligible for Palantir)
Your lack of any real knowledge of pvp is clearly apparent in this post.
I seriously doubt any devs regularly PvMP creep-side. Otherwise, they would realize what a mess they were making with the commendation system, especially for fresh creeps. Not to mention all of the balance issues that go on and on.
As for being able to buy skills, it's the only way for the vast majority of creeps to get all of their skills. How many Rank 15s are there? After five years. If after five years most of the freeps didn't have access to all their skills yet, this game would be dead.
Not disagreeing with what you have to say but haven't devs stated publicly that the sides aren't supposed to be 1:1 balanced? That is, there aren't supposed to be mirrored freep/creep rolls or classes?
And big lol at the person calling for a nerf to warden mitigations. I have fought a few wargs that have better mitigation than me, 47% tactical with shield tactics up.
Cmalberg - Elendilmir
-Stickygritz, Gritzwarr, and all those Gritz. Greblam
The reason nothing happens and freeps get yet another boost over creeps is you have guys like R0 Crell who is most likely in Palantir dictating what is and isn't balanced on their own little forums.
Wait a minute. Someone said upthread that Crell was f2p. F2p players don't get onto Palantir.
Crell, if you *are* on Palantir, you can't say so. But perhaps you could say whether you're f2p, just to get people a little less confused?
(You don't have to; it's none of our business really. But I've just seen a honking great oxymoron here, and I'd like to see it dispelled.)
One thing thats annoyed me about this thread is all of the creeps are assuming that every moors player will be able to easily and quickly obtain three crystals. This is not the case. Crystals are somewhat rare and most players won't be able to get all three very quickly without putting a significant amount of time into it. Creeps should not get a dps boost because there is a chance that a dedicated freep could get a bit more dps.
However, it is only fair that creeps get a way of increasing their dps also. Creepside crystals could be created to increase creep dps. The main problem with this is creeps don't have instances to run and it would be very unbalanced if crystals dropped from normal mobs. A solution for this would be having crystals drop from both CGs and Tyrants with the odds something like 1:5 or possibly even lower. This would allow equal opportunity for both sides to get crystals from pvmp while still being as difficult as it currently is for freeps.
And yes, I have played as a creep and a freep in the moors as well as pve on my freep.
Originally Posted by djheydt
Crell, if you *are* on Palantir, you can't say so. But perhaps you could say whether you're f2p, just to get people a little less confused?
One thing thats annoyed me about this thread is all of the creeps are assuming that every moors player will be able to easily and quickly obtain three crystals. This is not the case. Crystals are somewhat rare and most players won't be able to get all three very quickly without putting a significant amount of time into it. Creeps should not get a dps boost because there is a chance that a dedicated freep could get a bit more dps.
Those crystals are available in the store. If they don't get them in game, they can buy them.
It's a safe assumption that most serious PvMPers are going to have crystals.
One thing thats annoyed me about this thread is all of the creeps are assuming that every moors player will be able to easily and quickly obtain three crystals. This is not the case. Crystals are somewhat rare and most players won't be able to get all three very quickly without putting a significant amount of time into it. Creeps should not get a dps boost because there is a chance that a dedicated freep could get a bit more dps.
However, it is only fair that creeps get a way of increasing their dps also. Creepside crystals could be created to increase creep dps. The main problem with this is creeps don't have instances to run and it would be very unbalanced if crystals dropped from normal mobs. A solution for this would be having crystals drop from both CGs and Tyrants with the odds something like 1:5 or possibly even lower. This would allow equal opportunity for both sides to get crystals from pvmp while still being as difficult as it currently is for freeps.
And yes, I have played as a creep and a freep in the moors as well as pve on my freep.
These crystals don't appear to be as rare as many are making them out to be. They can also be obtained from the store. Creep dps already lacks and if you say other wise you're either in denial or simply don't know what you're talking about. Creeps already have trouble withstanding the damage put out by freeps and with yet another damage increase for the side with already more damage than the other, if you think the latter doesn't deserve some form of upgrade than its pretty clear you have some sort of blinders on.
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