Thread: Is it bad etiquette to join in when someone is already fighting a quest objective?

Originally Posted by achromatis

But in this context its extremely obvious why theyre inviting you.

Not necessarily. I've had blind invites while fighting a flake dropper without noticing there was another player nearby. If I'm in the middle of a tough fight, I focus fully on beating that mob. I don't pay attention to what other players around me are doing. Also, they may be some distance away, not standing right on top of you.

In any context, really, "blind invite" refers to an invite that is sent without your approval.

Because of the xp situation, I don't help anyone unless it's obvious they're getting stomped and they're going to die. I may pull a level 38 mob off a level 18 player, say on the road to Rivendell, but other than that I tend to leave people alone. If they want/need help, they'll ask for it.

Originally Posted by Cylestra

Quite honestly, I get really fed up with people *helping* me. If I'm happily soloing my way around, for whatever reason, and I'm not obviously in danger of dieing, I don't need - or want help. Sometimes I just want to be left in peace. If I want to do group content, I'll join a group (and quite regularly do).
{snip}

After that encounter, I also decided something else. If somebody attacks my target, I walk away and let them finish off killing it. I'll just loot the corpse afterwards. You cost me XP, you can do the work for it. If it resets, I'll tag it again and hopefully he/she will have gone away.

Totally agree with this. Some of these people remind me of the boyscout who "helped the little old lady cross the road" even though she wasn't going that way! Help when it's neither wanted nor needed is not help.

Originally Posted by Frisco

If it's a 40k fellowship quest bounty troll that someone is trying to solo and may take 5-10 minutes to do so, of course I'm going to jump in. It would be selfish of the person to expect people to form a line while he tests his mettle. There are plenty of equivalent non-quest mobs to fight for challenges.

I have to disagree on this one. If some wants to see if they can solo that mob, then they should allowed to succeed or fail on their own. Just because you're in a hurry doesn't mean someone else has to get run over by you on your way to what you want. Why don't you just stand back, see if the other player can pull it off and offer him a cheer or congratulations if he does?

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by achromatis

If someone walks up while your fighting a quest mob, and sends you an invite, it is NOT a "blind invite".

Nope. It's still a blind invite. You may THINK it's obvious, but it may not be. Besides, if someone is in the middle of fighting a quest mob, starting a fellowship won't get you credit for it anyway, so why not send a /tell *after* the fight asking to join up to kill the respawn (if, that is, your surmise is correct...)?

Even in the middle of a fight I won't accept a blind invite and having the window pop up under those circumstances doesn't make me like it any better.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Prorgrammer

Originally Posted by whheydt

If you're that much higher, why do you bother? The mobs will be grey to you. Do you also complain that others don't know how to play their class? Could it be that they--because of people like you--never got a chance to work out how to play their class because some high level character came through a wiped the floor with the mobs they were learning to fight?

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

I like to hang out in low level areas deeding and such and when Im leveling there on low level toons.
Ive never complained bout people not knowing their classes unless its real obvious, but not out loud so the person could hear it, I even throw in a friendly advice sometimes, but I guess that is wrong too huh?
Are you people really that naive that if someone kills some mobs for you once or twice a day that you think it disables your learning of the class completly? is that so? then forgive me for actually caring. If you people prefer solo go play Skyrim, I do not plan nor need to change who I am, I dont care how much QQ people put out, I am me. But fine, Ill put that person on the "never help list" and get rid of the problem, might as well just /ignore
I say goodluck to the person when he needs to group up to get his end game gear And yes, I am going to laugh if the person asks me.

Hey Turbine, why dont you just make a server for each character so he can be all alone.
That would indeed be something to do in a MMORPG game... hah..I regret wasting my time on this thread allready when people complain about others kindess.

--T. I. Ngur
Official Creep Rager & QQer of Gladden's PvMP Society

OH btw, thx for the negative rep from someone that missread my posts completly, Ill just leave this thread and you guys can argue all you like.

lol, dictator? rofl, who called me that?

Originally Posted by Witch0King

I say goodluck to the person when he needs to group up to get his end game gear And yes, I am going to laugh if the person asks me.

Hey Turbine, why dont you just make a server for each character so he can be all alone.
That would indeed be something to do in a MMORPG game... hah..I regret wasting my time on this thread allready when people complain about others kindess.

--T. I. Ngur
Official Creep Rager & QQer of Gladden's PvMP Society

Well, since I tend to avoid PUG's like the plague you would not be fellowing with me anyways. When I want to do group content I do so with fellow players in the Kin I am a member of.

Also, even though many of us prefer to do solo content does not mean that we don't like interacting with other players in this game. I routinely answer questions in the chat channels, especially when I happen to be in the Starter and mid-level zones. I will, however, NOT do a quest for a low-level character for them. If someone is truely stuck then I will log on a character that is about the correct level for that content to assist them. If I don't have a character in that level range I will actually ask someone in my Kin if they have someone. I will do this because this is a good way to recruit new members into the Kin.

Originally Posted by ArahadEketta

If someone is truely stuck then I will log on a character that is about the correct level for that content to assist them. If I don't have a character in that level range I will actually ask someone in my Kin if they have someone. I will do this because this is a good way to recruit new members into the Kin.

That is a great idea. Your kinship sounds like a very good one!

I must say, I've never seen so many people get upset about someone helping them to kill something. And I've played WoW for years lol

I can see where it would be a bit irritating if it's something you're trying to accomplish as a peronal challenge, but to those talking about exp...are you really that upset over the loss of exp on one mob? I ask that question seriously because I can't wrap my head around that.

I definitely consider someone jumping in when I'm killing a MOB to be rude. In fact, if someone does it to me more than once in the same area, I send them a tell specifically asking them to let me kill my own mobs.

The only times I jump in on a mob someone else has tapped is if they are clearly on the verge of dying. I don't mind if folks jump in and save my hide either.

Otherwise, I think it's common courtesy to wait until they are done with their fight. Surely there are other mobs you can kill for some xp or wood/ore to gather!

Originally Posted by Caranwyn

I know this post was a few pages back, but reading this made me ponder something.

I've voiced my opinion about soloing in the Limlight Gorge before so won't cover that here, but I wonder if you've considered that with all the various time zones now playing in the various servers it's not as easy to do things at "off-peak hours" as it was before? Before the migration I knew that if I got up early enough, say around 5am GMT, I would be able to do what I needed to get done on Laurelin and did so repeatedly after Eregion was added to the game. Getting those orcs in Pembar was painful at peak times.

But now that players from other time zones are able to play on what was previously an EU server/the other servers (I know character migration isn't possible yet, but I rolled a character on Landroval and I'm imagining others have done so on other servers), I'm not so sure that there is really an "off-peak" any more.

Caranwyn

Mornings are still very much off peak, since Europe is mostly at work/school and the US still asleep, and with a majority of the population in the EU, we don't have a whole lot Aussies since we got almost opposite day/night times.

For my minstrel and LM I've found the best solution to the whole 'helping' issue though: if someone's busy fighting a big or lots of mobs, I just go mining or grabbing a drink and let them die on their own and then throw a rez. If they expected me to stay away, they're happy because I let them die on their own and if they expected me to help, they're happy with the rez! Unless they explicitly said they didn't want help... then I don't rez.

But as for quest mobs, I always consider it a bit rude to 'claim' them as your own... especially fellowship ones, like in Limlight those mobs take a minute to kill with a fellowship to kill, if you go solo them there's 6 people waiting for you for at least 5-10 minutes for a quest that would normally take them 2 minutes to complete!

Originally Posted by Luder85

My approach is always to help if someone looks like they need it, also i've yet to get upset if someone helps me out.

Some people are very helpful to other one guy even gave me a tome of dread removal when i'd died as a result of having to answer the door - he even apologised for not killing the mob in time - needless to say i was grateful he got thanks etc.

If i was looking at a 1/2 hour marathon starting on a mob i needed, i'd ask to fellow, but if got a no, then would bog off somewhere else for a while, can't do anything about it and theres no point getting bent out of shape by it.

There is one related thing that has happened to me which did annoy the trap (with a c) out of me; i had a quest to kill a named orc in the pit of iron - who was on respawn, a hunter came up and was obviously on the same quest, he offered a fellowship which i accepted.

Soon as the mob appeared, he shot it while i was running up to it, then kicked me out of the fellowship, taking the mob( and i Guess the XP) himself.

That is selfish in the extreme and in my view has no part in this game.

It was a hunter, what did u expect

It is my desire to assist others in defeating the forces of evil. Therefore, if I see someone fighting an evil creature, I am obligated to intervene and assist whenever possible. This could be done by controlling the creature, attacking it, or rendering aid directly to my ally in the battle.

Any who complain to me after we have conquered an evil villain is obviously still diseased by the dementia of battle, so I will generally use my Knowledge of Cures to try and soothe them.

I have many times been killing a few bad guys because: I need a few kills to level my char or I need a few kills to level a LI. People “helping” me causes me to have to kill additional bad guys.

In addition, there are times when I am doing class skills and need to keep an opponent alive. This happened not too long ago on my Minnie and “kind” people killed several of my bad guys forcing me to find others.

Thanks Horatio, but no thanks.

Originally Posted by Elaida

Good point. Oh, how many gray hairs I've got for this when playing on my burg... Reveal Weakness on the mob, then the mob turns 180 degrees all of the sudden for no visible reason - and just when I'm about to stab him, that brainless hunter 20 yards into the other direction shoots him. Arrgh!

Good thing is I already burgled his stuff.

LOL I have been there, more times then I care to remember

Originally Posted by achromatis

But in this context its extremely obvious why theyre inviting you. Especially if therye too busy to stop fighting to type out a response, or notice their chat window. In this situation an invite without asking is the least "rude" way of doing it(assuming they stand where you can see them), and if you ignore them for it just because you wanted them to ask first then YOU are the one being rude and selfish.

not necessarily, you have no idea how many times I have got invites thinking oh they want to help with so and so or the need this mob for the quest only to have them stand there watch me kill the thing then ask me to help them do something completely unrelated, and on a few occasions (not this game though) had them stand there watch me kill the thing, and after the quest objective was achieved dropped group and zoned out

not to mention that pop up takes me out of the moment, is a bit annoying, and in other games has caused me to wipe

so yeah if you don't ask its a blind invite and allot of people will just ignore you. sad but true
blame the dim wits who abuse the grouping mechanics

Originally Posted by Frisco

For me, it's not a black and white issue. If it's a normal quest mob, a few seconds extra to wait for a respawn is not enough to make me jump in and rush a person.

If it's a 40k fellowship quest bounty troll that someone is trying to solo and may take 5-10 minutes to do so, of course I'm going to jump in. It would be selfish of the person to expect people to form a line while he tests his mettle. There are plenty of equivalent non-quest mobs to fight for challenges.

If someone is in so much hurry they have to interfere with another's enjoyment then they should have logged on sooner or otherwise managed their playing-time better. That solo person did not barge to the head of any queue, they just waited their chance and took it.

Nobody is going to die if you have to wait 5 minutes to do something.

Usually I am a bit annoyed if somebody else steps in while I don't need any help. Its not the XP, its the challenge of doing something on my own. However normally I do a /thank anyway because I assume they just want to be nice.

The other way around... if I see somebody going down I do not let them die. I throw a couple of heals on them, or I try to get aggro of the mob. I only do this if I think the person might go down if I do not step in though.

I don't usually consider it rude unless in two specific cases:
- Higher level player one-hitting (or close) a foe my lower level alts are fighting - Showoffs are really not fun and I like the "challenge" of an on-level fight
- Breaking CC on a hard opponent - This kind of "help" actually killed me once or twice in LLG while doing the dailies solo. As a hunter, I have no chance to survive except in a group situation or by CCing the creatures. If a random player drops in and breaks a CC I'll have no chance to drop aggro to him or CCing the creature again, so I'll have to flee or die - really annoying.

Of course, if I'm in dire need (dying or something) I find it rude if a wondering player DOESN'T help (whatever the situation).

When I'm on the helping side, I usually watch the person first to see if help is needed and how best to help them. When people are about to die, unless I'm with a healer or my warden I hardly have any chance to help, yet still I try (more often than not failing) either by CCing the mob (which the dying person tends to break by continuing to damage the creature) or by burst damaging the creature as hard as possible trying to get it killed fast or at least to draw aggro from the dying person.

Some people still find it rude when I help them this way. Either way, If I do manage to prevent a death I'm happy.

About the Limlight solo attempts making groups stagger in their progression ... the region is nowadays well-known and the dailies run by groups. Those groups have kind of a fixed path, or rather optimal path. Run from gate to first troll, turn left and hit the second troll, turn right and get huorn, turn left and get huorn, turn right and get huorn ... etc ... when all group members got the 4 seeds, turn in at the glade. Exit glade and go for troll 3 and head on to troll 4, then run on to do spiders ... last spider down, turn in trolls and spiders at gate ... DONE.

I guess everyone who played Limlight has done these dailies with groups on exactly that fixed path. Smooth and quick. Not a single unneccessary step.

If I want to solo a troll/spider/huorn there's enough of each off that fixed path. Nobody MUST wait for the solo-challenger taking his/her sweet time on one biggie, even in peak hours. Problem solved, if the soloer plays it smart

Originally Posted by Wernwulf

About the Limlight solo attempts making groups stagger in their progression ... the region is nowadays well-known and the dailies run by groups. Those groups have kind of a fixed path, or rather optimal path. Run from gate to first troll, turn left and hit the second troll, turn right and get huorn, turn left and get huorn, turn right and get huorn ... etc ... when all group members got the 4 seeds, turn in at the glade. Exit glade and go for troll 3 and head on to troll 4, then run on to do spiders ... last spider down, turn in trolls and spiders at gate ... DONE.

I guess everyone who played Limlight has done these dailies with groups on exactly that fixed path. Smooth and quick. Not a single unneccessary step.

If I want to solo a troll/spider/huorn there's enough of each off that fixed path. Nobody MUST wait for the solo-challenger taking his/her sweet time on one biggie, even in peak hours. Problem solved, if the soloer plays it smart

Exactly my thoughts. I never stay on the "group highway" when soloing. However, there are still those who tend to go exactly where I am and most times it's not even a group, but a single individual trying to be helpful (in a disastrous way).

(I don't even solo them anymore because it takes way too much time, but that's beyond the point)

'Assisting' also cuts reputation gains in half.

Originally Posted by Chellcn

but to those talking about exp...are you really that upset over the loss of exp on one mob? I ask that question seriously because I can't wrap my head around that.

For those of you who can't imagine that the xp cut bothers people; consider this situation. You're a melee class and a 'helpful' hunter is following you around. This hunter doesn't impact your ability to survive, since you can survive on your own. This hunter doesn't change how quickly you complete quests, since you complete them fast enough anyway. This hunter doesn't improve your enjoyment of the game, since you're not in a fellowship chatting with each other. All this hunter does is cut your xp in half.

There are two ways for the hunter to complete his objective of cutting your xp in half. One is to attack every mob you're fighting. Two is to tag every other mob before you get a hit in.

For those who think 'assisting' during normal fights isn't anything to get worked up over, consider your reaction to someone that tags half of the mobs you're going to fight. The correct response to this hunter is to report for harassment.


There are two objections I see that people will raise, so I'll address them now.
1. Loot, if the hunter tags every other mob, he'll get the loot from those, so it's not the same situation.
To that, I'll respond with

Originally Posted by Chellcn

but to those talking about LOOT...are you really that upset over the loss of LOOT on one mob? I ask that question seriously because I can't wrap my head around that.

2. The conversation is about assisting once, not following someone around.

There is no difference between the two. If something is helpful once, it's helpful always. If someone has 3 heart attacks a week, it's always helpful to give aspirin and call an ambulance. If someone falls down, it's always helpful to help them stand up (unless they've broken a bone or something, but then it's always helpful to call medical help.)

So, if killing one mob for me is 'helpful' then it should stay 'helpful' as you follow me around for an hour taking half the mobs from me.



I'm in support of send a tell saying 'Jump if you want help' when the situation looks grim. I'm in support of talking to people and joining into a fellowship after the fight is done if you want to complete a quest together.

I do not support stalking people to take half their xp. I do not support drive by assistance where you just do 1pt of damage as you run past. I do not support jumping into trivial fights because you 'wanted to help'.

Originally Posted by Lucanthanas

Exactly my thoughts. I never stay on the "group highway" when soloing. However, there are still those who tend to go exactly where I am and most times it's not even a group, but a single individual trying to be helpful (in a disastrous way).

(I don't even solo them anymore because it takes way too much time, but that's beyond the point)

I just solo them a few times, for my personal challenge. Having soloed them a few times and challenge accomplished, I rather join groups to get them done quicker. And everyone in the group profits from that.

Haven't yet had single individuals interfere my solo attempts but groups going off the fixed path and when that happened the group did not jump in and 'helped me' but just stopped to watch if I'm in need of help, then /cheer me and went to next available ... maybe I've been lucky

If a single individual would jump in and 'try to lend a helping hand' where obviously not needed, I'd drop the aggro on him and watch the fight, maybe he needs my help on HIS solo attempt

Wow, I had no idea that helping out or just plain being nice had become such a turn off for people. All the "issues" seem so lame that they are almost hard to argue. I mean, really, like there isn't another mob right around the corner to "challenge" you? This whole thread acts like there are only two mobs out there to kill. How does receiving help slow you down (it cut your xp in half sure but your time in half as well)? The only reasonable isuue I saw was the hunter that lost cc and that is such a rare occassion in the grand scheme of things that it hardly warrants a keep your nose out of my mmo attatude (accidents happen). I say if I irritate a few by having a good attitude, ie. being helpful, then that's the way I'm going out. I'd rather see someone have an "accident" because they were being nice than all this leave me alone in my "community" game.

Originally Posted by Harkenbrand

The only reasonable isuue I saw was the hunter that lost cc and that is such a rare occassion in the grand scheme of things that it hardly warrants a keep your nose out of my mmo attatude (accidents happen).

When I'm in a semi-populated zone, it's not uncommon to have my CC broken at least 2-3 times per session, with at least one of those causing me to be in danger.

Also, I found out yesterday that it's possible for someone to tag a CC'd mob with a low/no damage skill in such a way that they get to tag it for the credit, but retain none of the aggro. Unless the tagger specifically chooses to fight the mob, the one who cast the CC has to stand there and fight the grey-bar mob, along with any others they're fighting, for ZERO credit toward their quest, deed, or XP, or abandon the fight entirely and wait for the tagger to move on.

Originally Posted by Harkenbrand

Wow, I had no idea that helping out or just plain being nice had become such a turn off for people. All the "issues" seem so lame that they are almost hard to argue. I mean, really, like there isn't another mob right around the corner to "challenge" you? This whole thread acts like there are only two mobs out there to kill. How does receiving help slow you down (it cut your xp in half sure but your time in half as well)? The only reasonable isuue I saw was the hunter that lost cc and that is such a rare occassion in the grand scheme of things that it hardly warrants a keep your nose out of my mmo attatude (accidents happen). I say if I irritate a few by having a good attitude, ie. being helpful, then that's the way I'm going out. I'd rather see someone have an "accident" because they were being nice than all this leave me alone in my "community" game.

I think you misunderstand what is being discussed. Helping someone else is not the issue the OP brought up. The OP was helping himself, not the other person.

Few people are saying "don't help". All are saying make sure what you are doing IS helping the other person.

It helps to know all the classes and the differing styles of fighting mobs. An example would be a Lore Master that is using a kiting/mez method to kill a large morale mob. A LM could be almost dead, mez the target, regen morale for himself and his pet, then continue the fight. If you see the LM low on morale and jump in, you will break the mez and the mob will smash the LM. Instead of helping, you cost the LM the fight.

People are just asking you to make sure you are helping. Helping is accepted. Forcing yourself and your play style onto others is not.

I find it ironic that such a discussion is taking place in an MMO forum.

An MMO should offer a social and cooperative gameplay experience. What is described in this thread is far from it. The game mechanics promote the attitude 'if you are not in my fellowship then we are independent of each other'. LOTRO may have grouping elements to it but there is a big contrast between its solo play and group play. The open world wasn't designed for players to work together without explicit grouping and the mechanics show this. It only encourages teamwork so long as you are in the group, otherwise you are simply reducing the other players experience, gain nothing yourself and the only positive is the charity depending on if the player needed it.

I must make reference to Warhammer at this point because its idea of public quests is really good. Mythic's execution of it wasn't great but it is something that can be inherited and refined to a better system. Public quests allowed players to play together without having to group up and it offers much better social gameplay rather than everyone tagging their own mobs and not interfering each other.

Guild Wars 2 refined it a bit further and fully committed to a public quest-like event system. This meant content was tied to the world more than the player. By this I mean, when you save a village from orcs, you save it in the open world, not for that objective in your personal quest log. The system is great because people simply play together, they aren't grouped up and they're not punished for it.

Originally Posted by Able_Seacat_Simon

If a quest objective signature enemy dies faster it will respawn faster and I can complete my quest faster. I was just wondering if others might consider it rude when I do this.

Lack of patiance is never a sort after virtue, be it in gaame or out. The fact you asked the question shows you care what people think, carring is a good virtue. Virtues are yours and yours alone to gain or lose.

Act in haste, repent at leisure.

Originally Posted by Elfedlied

'Assisting' also cuts reputation gains in half.



For those of you who can't imagine that the xp cut bothers people; consider this situation. You're a melee class and a 'helpful' hunter is following you around. This hunter doesn't impact your ability to survive, since you can survive on your own. This hunter doesn't change how quickly you complete quests, since you complete them fast enough anyway. This hunter doesn't improve your enjoyment of the game, since you're not in a fellowship chatting with each other. All this hunter does is cut your xp in half.

There are two ways for the hunter to complete his objective of cutting your xp in half. One is to attack every mob you're fighting. Two is to tag every other mob before you get a hit in.

For those who think 'assisting' during normal fights isn't anything to get worked up over, consider your reaction to someone that tags half of the mobs you're going to fight. The correct response to this hunter is to report for harassment.


There are two objections I see that people will raise, so I'll address them now.
1. Loot, if the hunter tags every other mob, he'll get the loot from those, so it's not the same situation.
To that, I'll respond with

2. The conversation is about assisting once, not following someone around.

There is no difference between the two. If something is helpful once, it's helpful always. If someone has 3 heart attacks a week, it's always helpful to give aspirin and call an ambulance. If someone falls down, it's always helpful to help them stand up (unless they've broken a bone or something, but then it's always helpful to call medical help.)

So, if killing one mob for me is 'helpful' then it should stay 'helpful' as you follow me around for an hour taking half the mobs from me.



I'm in support of send a tell saying 'Jump if you want help' when the situation looks grim. I'm in support of talking to people and joining into a fellowship after the fight is done if you want to complete a quest together.

I do not support stalking people to take half their xp. I do not support drive by assistance where you just do 1pt of damage as you run past. I do not support jumping into trivial fights because you 'wanted to help'.

Ok..change in my statement you quoted aside.....

I can see where it would be a pain in the padded behind if someone was constantly following you around - give me a little credit for common sense. I didn't ask that. I asked if that loss of xp on ONE mob was that irritating to people.

Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta

Also, I found out yesterday that it's possible for someone to tag a CC'd mob with a low/no damage skill in such a way that they get to tag it for the credit, but retain none of the aggro. Unless the tagger specifically chooses to fight the mob, the one who cast the CC has to stand there and fight the grey-bar mob, along with any others they're fighting, for ZERO credit toward their quest, deed, or XP, or abandon the fight entirely and wait for the tagger to move on.

Yeah, just throwing a Mez on a target doesn't 'tag' it, but does count as starting the fight aggro-wise. If I've got to CC stuff in a heavy populated area I always try to do some sort of damage first exactly because of that.

Another fun one is if people run close past you with a trail of mobs behind them, just as you do a big AoE attack...

Originally Posted by StavroMuellerBeta

When I'm in a semi-populated zone, it's not uncommon to have my CC broken at least 2-3 times per session, with at least one of those causing me to be in danger.

Quite. ANY interference when my hunter is fighting in Limlight breaks CC but leaves the aggro still on me.

And as for the 'there's always another mob to practice on' argument. There's always another jerk who thinks their time and enjoyment takes precedence over that of the person already engaging the mob. And so it just goes on with the solo player not achieving their objective.

I always assume a player soling something major is doing it out of choice and just because I also want to kill it - even if it's a new quest mob - I wouldn't dream of not respecting that person's choice. The mob will respawn and it won't kill me not to do the quest there and then. They were there first. I can't just drag my lazy ### along when I get round to it and expect to barge in.

Originally Posted by Harkenbrand

The only reasonable isuue I saw was the hunter that lost cc and that is such a rare occassion in the grand scheme of things that it hardly warrants a keep your nose out of my mmo attatude (accidents happen).

It is not an accident. If you interfere with a hunter using CC tactics you are deliberately choosing to disrupt his tactics and because he will still have the aggro and because the mitigation and armour changes have left hunters as glass cannons you are quite likely sending him to the rez circle no matter how good your intentions may be.

I've had this happen more than once when fighting the dangerous 70k and 150k Limlight mobs. I know how to fight them solo and I enjoy fighting them solo. What I don't enjoy is having a feared troll turned back into my face when my CC is on cooldown.

Originally Posted by defrule

I find it ironic that such a discussion is taking place in an MMO forum.

An MMO should offer a social and cooperative gameplay experience. What is described in this thread is far from it.

Read this paper to find out just how much in error your expectations are.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by defrule

An MMO should offer a social and cooperative gameplay experience

Forcing your playstyle your beliefs on others just to hurry along a respawn is niether social or cooperative.

Asking First Talking Discussing comeing to an Understanding is Social.

Leting someone complete thier Quest thier Killing of an elite Quest Mob without interfearance is cooperation.

Allowing people to play thier own way is what it is about. There is nothing wrong with helping the OP did not ask about helping he asked about being selfish and in a hurry and if forcing your own desires on others is bad from and rude.
Clearly to anyone with a little social responsibility the answer is YES it is Bad Form and Rude.

Originally Posted by whheydt

Read this paper to find out just how much in error your expectations are.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

My attitude about playing an MMO is the same as going to the park to play basketball with friends. If I meet new people to play with great, but the reason I'm their is to play ball with the friends I have. I don't require, nor expect everyone else in the park to join in our game. Indeed a game of 2 on 2 half court would get awkward with fifth wheel strangers jumping in whenever they pass by. Just because I'm in the same park doesn't mean I want to play with you. The same goes for movies, restaurants, and thyme parks. I'm not sure an eatery would stay open very long if everyone had to sit at the same table.

I don't understand why people think an MMO would be any different than any other place that people gather socially.

Originally Posted by Elaida

Talk to them while they're fighting, and if they don't answer, send a blind invitation? That's the most awkward suggestion so far in this whole thread.

Like I said, regardless what you do, there'll be someone who thinks you're wrong. Thank you for reinforcing my point.

Originally Posted by whheydt

Read this paper to find out just how much in error your expectations are.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Could be interesting, but I don't have the time to read it.

If my expectations are flawed then let them be and perhaps my thought on what an MMO should be is not what everyone else thinks it should.

Originally Posted by defrule

Could be interesting, but I don't have the time to read it.

If my expectations are flawed then let them be and perhaps my thought on what an MMO should be is not what everyone else thinks it should.

You really don't think it makes a better discussion if both sides are at least *informed*? You may disagree with the paper's conclusions, but you can hardly have a decent discussion on the subject if you haven't at least read it.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

You can't have a decent discussion about THAT paper without having read it, but you can most certainly discuss MMO's without reading that particular study from Stanford, which may or may not actually draw an even relevant point.

To cite a paper, and insist it's a prerequisite to having a conversation is a bit much, and just because it's a study from a PHD doesn't mean their conclusions have any relevance at all.

That's basically an argument from authority, kind of like a signature declaring yourself to be a programmer.

A point can stand on it's own merit, whether or not it came from Einstein himself.

That said, it's a neat paper, although I find their conclusions to be pretty speculative.

I'll be daring and sum up the paper in one quote mined sentence: "For most, playing the game is therefore like being “alone together” –surrounded by others, but not necessarily actively interacting with them"

mmmkay

"For most"

Hasn't been that way for me, so I guess I'm in the minority, or their conclusion is based on false assumptions and too little data from World of Warcraft, which is what they're talking about by the way.



I

It might be bad etiquette to some to help them out. It might be bad etiquette to others if you sit there and take a godawful long time killing the boss because you want the full, what, 234 exp or so?

Some people like small blue numbers, others don't have time for this and want the dumb thing to die already. Half the exp? so what. Twice the speed, and time is just as valuable, if not moreso.