Thread: Is it bad etiquette to join in when someone is already fighting a quest objective?

If a quest objective signature enemy dies faster it will respawn faster and I can complete my quest faster. I was just wondering if others might consider it rude when I do this.

Yes absolutely rude unless asked for help.
Attacking an already tagged Mob cuts the XP in half.
Faster is not always better you must also consider others not just your objective.

I won't speak for others, but I find it rude, since not only does it cut my XP gain from the kill, but also satisfaction at defeating an enemy on my own (not that most of them are all that difficult)

Personally I don't mind as the XP gained from even special mobs taken on an individual level is pretty much meaningless BUT many people do care. Some do care about the XP. Some like the challenge of taking on Monster X all by themselves. Some just don't like playing with others in general. It's always the right thing to ask first before jumping in even if the fight doesn't appear to be going well for the player involved.

I'll wait and see if they're going to die or not before I involve myself. If they're going to die, then I'll help out.

I really never understood that whole "oh it cuts kill xp in half argument". The xp gain from kills is such a small amount to begin with, not really worth getting upset about imho.

Originally Posted by Able_Seacat_Simon

If a quest objective signature enemy dies faster it will respawn faster and I can complete my quest faster. I was just wondering if others might consider it rude when I do this.

People vary on their feelings. I could not care less about the 50% loss in kill experience ploints.

A lot of times, I want to see if I can accomplish this mission without help as personal achievement. The last time someone helped me when I was playing Tantalus, I executed Desperate Flight to break aggro. In other cases, I have stopped fighting, run off when the mob dies - I cancel the quest because I was not able to break the tag before the mob died.. My burglar has been known to use "Hide in Plain Sight".

Back during Volume 1, there was an Angmarian you had to kill in North Downs in one of the later books. Up in the pass to Angmar beyond the Hillman camp. This one guy was determined to help me kill this quest target. The player would not leave even when I politely asked her / him to move on. I logged out. Did something else for awhile. Logged back in an hour later after this person left.

In summary, it might not be the most effective use of your time to help Tantalus. You may find yourself killing my tagged mob all by yourself for no credit. You have to wait for the respawn. I manage to break the tag. You can kill the mob and head on your way.

Normally and so far, I could not see myself doing this to someone, didn't know about the XP cut.
Not sure if I would make a big deal if it happened to me.
Now a question I just thought of, what happens if you see someone losing a fight and you can drop a heal of some kind on them. Does that count the same as attacking the mob, XP loss? If there was no problem, I could excuse that.

Originally Posted by Glicyn

Normally and so far, I could not see myself doing this to someone, didn't know about the XP cut.
Not sure if I would make a big deal if it happened to me.
Now a question I just thought of, what happens if you see someone losing a fight and you can drop a heal of some kind on them. Does that count the same as attacking the mob, XP loss? If there was no problem, I could excuse that.

You cut the experience points by any interference whether it a debuff to the mob, damage attack, buff to the player, heal, get hit or anything else you can think of. You are welcome to watch, do emotes, run around ...

For me personally, I don't like it when people cut in on my mob. Unless I am going down (rarely, but hey, could happen.)

If I see someone else is fighting the mob I need as well, I'll stand off to the side and wait. If the person is having a hard time with it, and more than likely not going to win, I'll either help or throw heals at them, depending on what class I am playing. I have no problem waiting a few seconds/minutes for the respawn.

Yeah my 2 general rules are don't help someone unless they are about to die, or if they are at level cap it is not as big of a deal since they can't get any experience anyway. I don't know if it cuts item xp in half but that number is so low anyway I don't know why anyone would care.

You would be safest with not helping anyone unless they are about to die though, I'd go that route.

It's just my personal opinion, but I find it quite annoying when someone else starts hitting my mob. Usually I give them a /slap or an /angry :P

I actually had a hunter come up and fear my mob once. That was weird.

I personally wouldn't mind, unless I was challenging myself to test out gear... Usually I'd be quite happy to have someones help

I mean, what's the worst that can happen? You lose 50% of the XP from a single mob... not really a big deal.

Originally Posted by Glicyn

Normally and so far, I could not see myself doing this to someone, didn't know about the XP cut.
Not sure if I would make a big deal if it happened to me.
Now a question I just thought of, what happens if you see someone losing a fight and you can drop a heal of some kind on them. Does that count the same as attacking the mob, XP loss? If there was no problem, I could excuse that.

I believe the information in this link is still accurate. http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Mecha...22_Exp_Penalty

I think it's not only bad etiquette but also rude. I've done it and I admit it. Even though I got a "thank you" later on, sometimes I wish I had never done it.

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

You cut the experience points by any interference whether it a debuff to the mob, damage attack, buff to the player, heal, get hit or anything else you can think of. You are welcome to watch, do emotes, run around ...

Yah Turbine should really consider dropping this little mechanic. Would it really be so bad if everyone who tagged a mob or helped someone with a buff/heal all got full experience for it, even if they are not in a group. It's like the game discourages grouping in this way.

I can't imagine they are afraid people would steamroll content quicker if they formed groups and *gasp* all got normal exp out of it. There are already so many ways of boosting mob kill experience anyway.

The one time I got annoyed with a helping hand was when I was doing some survivability/dps testing on my Warden in LL gorge after U6 and a hunter came along and helped me kill the troll thus spoiling my test. And then 20 minutes later while running combat analysis to test dps in assailment/recklessness, a Captain came by and gave me some buff (I think it was the critical chance one) thus, again, spoiling my test.

I'm a pretty laid back sort so no big deal, but it is best to wait and see if someone is in trouble before helpin' out.

Personally, I see help as just that, helpful. I would consider anyone who took offense at being helped as an anti-social jerk, and anyone who would watch as I died fighting a mob as the same.

I may be in the minority though, as it seems a lot of people resent anyone intruding into their play experience.

I'd look at the situation... if it's dying fast enough and there aren't other people looking for it, I'd usually wait. If it's some Guardian with a shield equipped who's trying to bore the mob to death or if it's a very popular quest target, I'll help. Even more important, if I see someone else who's on the same quest-line (so probably looking for the same mob) I tend to invite them to a fellowship before engaging the target (doesn't work after the fight started usually).

I've had people angry with me for helping them with a mob, I've also had people angry with me for not helping them because I was standing around to see if they managed. So you'll just have to use your own judgement. Myself I welcome every help I can get!

Originally Posted by Able_Seacat_Simon

If a quest objective signature enemy dies faster it will respawn faster and I can complete my quest faster. I was just wondering if others might consider it rude when I do this.

Yes, it's rude. If one is in that much of a hurry to complete quests, then one should find a single player game where other won't stand in the way of your progress. If I wanted assistance, I would be with a Kin Mate or in a group with someone. Obviously, we are talking solo content, so I don't desire assistance.

If you asked if it's alright to help someone who might need assistance, I would agree with the others that it's purely subjective and some may find it useful while others might get annoyed. The question however is if it's alright to rush someone else through content they have engaged first to facilitate your play time. So no, it's not a good thing.

Ask first.

This is a topic that has come up many times before.

Originally Posted by Graycient

I personally wouldn't mind, unless I was challenging myself to test out gear... Usually I'd be quite happy to have someones help

I mean, what's the worst that can happen? You lose 50% of the XP from a single mob... not really a big deal.

It can cut a lot more than half. If the one "helping" is in a fellowship, the xp (and ixp) get reduced to the level they would be if it were one fellowship...so xp can be reduced by about 90% in some cases.

Originally Posted by Zalabar2000

I don't know if it cuts item xp in half but that number is so low anyway I don't know why anyone would care.

Yes. "Helping" cuts ixp as well.

Originally Posted by Kaius

Personally, I see help as just that, helpful. I would consider anyone who took offense at being helped as an anti-social jerk, and anyone who would watch as I died fighting a mob as the same.

I may be in the minority though, as it seems a lot of people resent anyone intruding into their play experience.

It depends on what the person is doing. Some people want the challenge. Some people want to do tests. Some people want to find out what their limits are. Some classes have skills that kick in only when their morale gets quite low (so you can't *just* go by the other guys morale...you have to take class into account as well).

Sometimes someone is very close to a a level and close to the end of their play session and just wants to eke out that last little bit of xp...and in that case, cutting xp in half or worse really does have a materially adverse effect on them.

Unless you *ask*, you just don't know.

Originally Posted by Ingaras

If it's some Guardian with a shield equipped who's trying to bore the mob to death or if it's a very popular quest target, I'll help.

So...you want to set yourself up as the judge of other people's play style? That sort of thing cuts both ways, you know.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by Zarador

No, it's not rude. If one wants to complete quests solo, then one should find a single player game where other won't stand in the way of your progress. If I didn't want assistance, I wouldn't be playing an MMO I would be playing a solo game.

There fixed for you. I mean really? I'm glad I no longer PvE in this game if this is the general attitude out there. People actually care about loss of XP? That's weak. If your looking for a challenge solo there are plenty of places to go solo to get a challenge. Respect goes both ways. If your soloing a mob and it takes forever since it a solo boss, who said it's yours and everyone under the sun should wait around for you? If you die, should we also stand there, wait for you to run back, to try and kill the mob again? That's a little too entitled for an MMO player IMO. Go play a solo game if you want all those big bad NPCs for yourself. You could solo group content. That's what I used to do for a challenge.

Don't help in LotRO
Other MMO's are fine
Peeps here just can't cope

Just a quest elite? Yeh of course help take it down quicker, anyone complaining about it is being inconsiderate of YOU for making you pointlessly stand around for longer waiting on the respawn.

And as has been pointed out this is an MMO, not a single player game.

Originally Posted by Elerrina

There fixed for you. I mean really? I'm glad I no longer PvE in this game if this is the general attitude out there. People actually care about loss of XP? That's weak. If your looking for a challenge solo there are plenty of places to go solo to get a challenge.

Respect goes both ways. If your soloing a mob and it takes forever since it a solo boss, who said it's yours and everyone under the sun should wait around for you? If you die, should we also stand there, wait for you to run back, to try and kill the mob again? That's a little too entitled for an MMO player IMO. Go play a solo game if you want all those big bad NPCs for yourself. You could solo group content. That's what I used to do for a challenge.

Originally Posted by Silverangel

Don't help in LotRO
Other MMO's are fine
Peeps here just can't cope

Originally Posted by achromatis

Just a quest elite? Yeh of course help take it down quicker, anyone complaining about it is being inconsiderate of YOU for making you pointlessly stand around for longer waiting on the respawn.

And as has been pointed out this is an MMO, not a single player game.

Ah, so the general consensus is that I need to hurry up and do it your way, you're in a hurry. Just because I engaged the encounter first has no relevance at all. There is no challenge since I am in a MMO and need to accept that others might be in a hurry. The player enjoying the content at their pace, even if they get there first is inconsiderate for expecting other players to wait their turn.

In the old days they called that sort of behavior griefing. By the way, it was not fine in other MMO's in the past either. People tended to get real ticked when you tagged their mobs. That was one of the reasons that some MMO's locked targets and others no longer allowed the higher DPS to gain credit for the mob, tagged or not.

Attempting to help others is fine and not offensive.
Pushing someone out of the way to get done faster, that's rude.

Originally Posted by Zarador

Ah, so the general consensus is that I need to hurry up and do it your way, you're in a hurry. Just because I engaged the encounter first has no relevance at all. There is no challenge since I am in a MMO and need to accept that others might be in a hurry. The player enjoying the content at their pace, even if they get there first is inconsiderate for expecting other players to wait their turn.

In the old days they called that sort of behavior griefing. By the way, it was not fine in other MMO's in the past either. People tended to get real ticked when you tagged their mobs. That was one of the reasons that some MMO's locked targets and others no longer allowed the higher DPS to gain credit for the mob, tagged or not.

Attempting to help others is fine and not offensive.
Pushing someone out of the way to get done faster, that's rude.

the general consensus is you need to lighten up

if someone is trying to help you, they are trying to be nice. instead of getting in a huff about how "rude" they are, you could always say "hey, no thanks, i've got it."

its difficult for me to even process how someone could get upset about someone coming to their aid

The simple answer to this question is, "yes, it's rude to attack a mob someone else is fighting unless it looks like they're going to die, or they are fleeing the mob."

Examples of when it's considered ok in most circumstances include:

You're watching someone take on a mob, the mob's health is quite a bit higher than the player and the player is obviously going to die. I think you'd be pretty safe helping out.

You're watching someone take on a mob, their health gets too low, the mobs health is too high and they start fleeing. I think you'd be ok to grab aggro and keep them alive.

Someone is obviously just running through and area and picked up a mob on aggro as they passed through and you want the mob, so I think you'd be ok to attack it.


But in other situations, does an extra 20 - 30 seconds on a respawn really make it worth the possibility of being rude?

Oops, I thought the person who attacks a mob first got 100% of the XP (i.e there is no XP sharing) and that I've been being helpful as opposed to a XP greedy pig.

Oh well

Originally Posted by Frith_of_Dale

the general consensus is you need to lighten up

if someone is trying to help you, they are trying to be nice. instead of getting in a huff about how "rude" they are, you could always say "hey, no thanks, i've got it."

its difficult for me to even process how someone could get upset about someone coming to their aid

Except the post and the replies I quoted were NOT about coming to someones aid. They clearly stated that having to wait while someone finishes the mob delays the respawn for them, therefore they need to accept that people are in a hurry and can't wait for the person on the mob to finish.

I clearly stated several times that assisting someone that you believe could use the help is NOT rude. Pushing them out of the way is.

In other words:
Opening the door for someone = polite.
Pushing them out of the way in the aisle = not polite.

Personally, the XP lost is nothing since XP is extremely easy and fast in the game. Some players however, self included, enjoy waging their own battles without someone complaining they are too slow.

Originally Posted by Frith_of_Dale

the general consensus is you need to lighten up

if someone is trying to help you, they are trying to be nice. instead of getting in a huff about how "rude" they are, you could always say "hey, no thanks, i've got it."

its difficult for me to even process how someone could get upset about someone coming to their aid

I think that the point is by the time you say, "No thanks, I've got it," it's too late. The XP has already been halved.

What if I don't need your aid? Reminds me of the boy scout who helped the old lady across the street only to find out she didn't really want to cross.

You might want to ask first, to determine that your aid is actually desired. Seeing as how you're trying to be nice and all.

In the majority of occassions I've helped in the past I have been told to get lost, now I don't give help at all unless asked, and only once ever have I been sent a tell sayin "why didn't you help you could see I was in trouble"...to which I said "you didn't ask". Many people have helped me though and it has never bothered me, I mean if you are killing for xp who really cares about 1 mobs xp out of hundreds, and I have personally have no inclination to show how awesome I am or not by soloing stuff that could be beaten far simpler with a helping hand.

That said I understand each to their own and do my best to never interfere. There are probably lots of people like me who actually appreciate the help, but it's not worth it to just jump in only to find they wanted their precious xp or to kill a mob by themselves thus showing what big boys they are (and in rare cases upsetting their testing, which I agree would be frustrating).

Originally Posted by Frith_of_Dale

the general consensus is you need to lighten up

if someone is trying to help you, they are trying to be nice. instead of getting in a huff about how "rude" they are, you could always say "hey, no thanks, i've got it."

its difficult for me to even process how someone could get upset about someone coming to their aid

Actually your math is bad or you do not understand the word consensus.

The consensus is, 18 posts, that it is bad form possibly rude depending on the reasoning, and if the help was really needed or if your reason was solely selfish and personal HURRY UP I WANT THAT MOB.... Well yeah thats rude. A couple did not realise there was XP lose so they probably honestly thought they were helping and now know something they did, and a very small minority think it is ok to force thier playstyle on and try to hurry them along for selfish reasons others unfortunetly those are the type bound for Ignore and Reporting as they will never learn or care.

People have expressed many reasons not Just the XP lose why someone prefers to solo an elit mob a quest mob a final boss mob, learning a new skill, checking armour stats ability, what traits help in a given situation, pushing them selves to the limit and wanting a good chalange on thier own, and yes even that self satisfying sense of I Did It.
Attacking first without asking is wrong and at that point it is to late for them to say Hey No thanks as you already have changed the variables. If you honestly believed they were in danger pay close attention if they start to run yeah help and I believe most would say thanks I know I do if I get in over my head.
Not Long ago I was soloing In Goblin Town Clearing Deeds, Farming Rivedell Rep Items and Pulled to many mobs and was forced to Run and a friendly level 71 Champ or was it captain saved my Bacon and Yes I Thanked Him via a Friendly Quick Salute. There are times Help is apprpriate and appreciated there are times when it is not. When your reason for help was because your in a hury because you want that mob to respawn faster Thats RUDE and in Bad Form.

Ask first if asking is not possible death is a foregone conclusion for the other player Help but make sure your reason for helping really is pure make sure your reason for helpingg was to actually help and not for a selfish reason.
I would say look closely decide based on a view from the outside and how you would feel if someone interupted you and your prefered playstyle.

Originally Posted by Zarador

Except the post and the replies I quoted were NOT about coming to someones aid. They clearly stated that having to wait while someone finishes the mob delays the respawn for them, therefore they need to accept that people are in a hurry and can't wait for the person on the mob to finish.

I clearly stated several times that assisting someone that you believe could use the help is NOT rude. Pushing them out of the way is.

In other words:
Opening the door for someone = polite.
Pushing them out of the way in the aisle = not polite.

Personally, the XP lost is nothing since XP is extremely easy and fast in the game. Some players however, self included, enjoy waging their own battles without someone complaining they are too slow.

That kind of attitude is also rude and inconsiderate of the other player though. Not only was that other person obviously trying to help(in the hypothetical situation in my brain), but at least they were working toward a solution that helps both people instead of focusing on just themselves(albeit probably not thinking that).

Its not really "Pushing them out of the way", its telling the person in front to hurry up. Yeh its still not polite, but neither was standing in everyones way just because you liked the view out of the window.

Not that I want to try and say that everyone should just play the way everyone else wants them too, but you have to accept and not get mad about(for anyone who would get mad over this) other peoples playstyles bleeding over into yours. In a situation where one person gives unwanted help to kill an elite at least both people are getting part of what they want, considering the second person probably didnt come there to stand around waiting on a respawn.

Thats all assuming theres been no communication between players. Easiest thing to do is run up next to them and invite them to a group(if you ask them if they want help you may not get any response, and having to type is more annoying than the popup), even if you wont get credit, because if they decline its a pretty obvious "bugger off and leave me alone". But most people accept and even stick around to help you kill the boss again for your quest. I dont know why I didnt suggest that before, its what happens 90% of the time in any MMO for situations like this.

I just say "Jump if you want help"

Since it's kinda hard to type a response if you're trying hard not to die >.>

I totally don't get you guys... I'd appreciate the saved time if someone helped me kill a quest mob, and I usually help them out in a similar way.

Are you seriously going to tell a helping person to shove off cause you lose half of one mob's exp? Absolutely absurd.
You guys disappoint me.

Originally Posted by MorphenVanyarion

Are you seriously going to tell a helping person to shove off cause you lose half of one mob's exp? Absolutely absurd.
You guys disappoint me.

The XP is not the sole reason someone might not want help.

When I fight three or more mobs, I typically mez one or two while I burn down the others. All too often, I've had to take a repair bill or abandon the fight entirely because someone decided to "help" with the mobs I had mezzed.

the only time I help out is if it looks like someone has bitten off more than they can chew.

I was in mirkwood the other day (the camp by the exit of moria) and a 60 rk had aggro'd 3 of the orcs in the 1st place they spawn. He was down to about 400hp so i stepped in to prevent a death.

A few weeks ago, I stumbled upon a brave Lore Master trying to fight one of the Trolls in the Limlight Gorge by herself.
I noticed her morale was on the low side, so I asked her if she needed help.
Suddenly, she must have taken a critical or even devestating hit because... she had fallen! I had tried to save her but it was too late. I put the troll out of its misery but the revenge didn't even give me the slightest bit of satisfaction. Lore Master, whoever you were and wherever you are, I am missing you! R.I.P.

Sometimes just jumping into a fight rather than waiting for them to type their reply is the better choice to make

Hhahahahahhhaaha
oh hahaaha
anyways
just kill as many tagged mobs as you can, I really hope the playerbase can do without the extra 50-400 exp, if not...
hahahaaha
Just dont ninja steal, thats rude. Killing tagged mobs is just fine.
I couldnt live with a player dying and then sending me a tell, asking why I didnt help.. so I help those in need whenever I can
Im a Tank/Healer/Support/DPSer, Through all my chars these are my main jobs, I wont stand by and let others fall while Im just watching.

On the whole losing XP-thing; does it go in half too when you heal the player instead of attacking the mob?

I agree with everyone above on the 'look if they're about to get killed, then act'-stance. It's always sad to see someone die, especially when I could have potentially saved him/her.

Originally Posted by NickStern

When your reason for help was because your in a hury because you want that mob to respawn faster Thats RUDE and in Bad Form.

Think about it this way, not everyone has all the time in the world to wait for everyone else to do their solo thing in a multiplayer game. There are players who only have a few hours and less to play over a period of time and it's actually rude of you to tell them that you have to wait because i am checking my third set and third LI of how it works while the other guy is just trying to get his rep, deed while he can... who is selfish here ?

I don't see the issue here though, i actually find people who are angry afterwards that i helped them to be rude, i just ignore them right away, though i has happened to me only once i think. Usually i just help straight away and don't think of it too much, ill stop if the other person will tell me that he would rather be alone, then of course i would stop and watch just to make sure.