Thread: My lack of time in the moors

Originally Posted by Eaglehaven

Completley disagree.....start a creep and freep at level 1 and race to see who has rank 7 audicity first. Creep should win that race every time. A raid ready Freep has to get all his gear, virtues, skills, FAs to equal a ranked creep and then start working on moors gear/audicity. Moors gear is nice but can't be used in all situations for raiding.

Val

A good example of how tricky it is to draw comparisions in the moors. Assuming you actually mean a lvl 1 freep, Id say its not a fair comparision. A lvl 1 freep isnt running around trying to earn his advancement in a PvP zone. Sure it takes MUCH more time to rank a freep from 1 to 75 and gear him, but the game is designed to make that a balanced fun experience (even if it can be fairly grindy.)

By contrast a rank 0 creep is out in the moors facing freeps that have already learned to play their class through 75 lvls of play and just need to get armor to max their audacity. The new creep is still learning how to play their class and cant even afford to buy their skills as they rank. Actually buying audacity is just a pipe dream until rank 6+ (Assuming they stick around that long since they are trying to earn their ranks vs freeps that already have all their skills and are quickly pulling ahead of them on audacity rating.)

Originally Posted by Mystarr

Assuming you actually mean a lvl 1 freep, its not a fair comparision. A lvl 1 freep isnt running around trying to earn his advancement in a PvP zone. Sure it takes MUCH more time to rank a freep from 1 to 75 and gear him, but the game is designed to make that a balanced fun experience (even if it can be fairly grindy.)

By contrast a rank 0 creep is out in the moors facing freeps that have already learned to play their class through 75 lvls of practice and just need to get armor to max their audacity. The new creep is just learning how to play the class and cant even afford to buy their skills as they lvl. Actually buying audacity is just a pipe dream until rank 6+ (Assuming they stick around that long since they are trying to earn their ranks vs freeps that already have all their skills and presumably know how to play their class.)

Creep ranks shoudn't be a gimme....bottom line is a creep will have rank 7 audicity long before a freep will...it's a balance :P

Val

Originally Posted by Eaglehaven

Creep ranks shoudn't be a gimme....bottom line is a creep will have rank 7 audicity long before a freep will...it's a balance :P

Val

If you start timing it the day the freep/creep is created you are correct. (Creep will have rank 7 audacity first)

If you start timing it when they first set foot in the moors at lvl 75 you are wrong. (The freep will have rank 7 audacity first.)

Nothing to argue here.

Originally Posted by Mystarr

Audacity: Once both sides have rank 7 audacity I think audacity helps creeps a little more than freeps.

Curious as to why you think it favours creeps over freeps.....

For starters audacity itself favours healing classes the most....freepside has more classes with heals/self heals (and greater hps), and they are more dangerous to begin with. You could also argue by creating longer fights....you are creating more chances for fight changing crit/devs to occur....and atm freep crit rates/magnitudes > creep.

Freep downside I guess is forced armor set - but the uncapping of stats basically forced them down this road to at least have some basis for attempting to create balance.

Originally Posted by Mystarr

Upshot
The moors isn't balanced and its never going to be. However, the good news is that even with the imbalances a group of skillful well led players on either side (freep or creep) has always been able to overcome the enemy. At the end of the day it has always been possible for either side to overcome equal (or even slightly greater) numbers of the enemy if they outplay them. Ive seen it done since the first day I set foot in the moors and I have seen it done after update 7.

While I agree with you, I would argue freepside has more and better tools for this, and is able to overcome greater odds.

I keep getting an error when I try to reply to your post.

I'll try again later

Being OP only really comes in numbers.

As for how people pvp... if you think there is only one way to PvP then YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. If PvP is about renown/infamy YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG. If it's about fun, risk, and challenge, YOU'RE DOING IT RIGHT. >>>used CAPS for dramatic effect<<<

Grouping (not raiding), to me, is the most fun and challenging if the odds are even or against us. It's what this game is made for. Spontaneous skill usage to kill and to survive. Sure beats spamming bolster for 3 hours and getting 10k of renown by having the leader on /follow. There has to be more than one way to play in the PvP zone if you want risk. What's the fun in anything with out risk? If it's not about risk than it's all about farming. Raiding is the easiest exploit in the game to rank if there is no risk or opposition.

Originally Posted by Mystarr

I keep getting an error when I try to reply to your post.

I'll try again later

My posts are OP!

Originally Posted by Witch0King

I'd like to point out that the leveling/grinding is the PvE part of the game and not designed for PvP while the creeps are designed for PvP and matching the freeps

If you don't PVE then you can't PVP....did you even think this through "cat boy"?

Val

Originally Posted by Eaglehaven

If you don't PVE then you can't PVP....did you even think this through "cat boy"?

Val

You make no sense. None. Zero.

Go play bingo.

Originally Posted by Eaglehaven

If you don't PVE then you can't PVP....did you even think this through "cat boy"?

Val

Well I dont get why freeps complain about leveling/grinding. If People want to PvP right away they can just roll a creep. Freep PvP is an optional part of the end game, the PvE is the game, once you're done with leveling and gear grinding you're done with the game, only endgame left and that is either chilling out/making new alts/PvP.

I enjoy the PvE very much, leveling a lvl 51 hunter & 39 LM atm, but once every day I spend ca 1-2 hours in The Moors creepside, Yes Im a Creep, but it doesnt take half a brain to sort out the bad creps either, no matter which side you're on. My view is somewhat onesided/biased but I know a coward when I see one.

- Tingur, son of Tingurat the Tormenter who is the son of Tingum the Blackdog whose the great grandson of Pingur the Harvester of Sorrow.

Originally Posted by Ravyrn

Careful pointing out you've played both sides a fair amount. Some people might overreact.

Originally Posted by swamp

Summer I here as well and I got some fish to catch

Topics never to be discussed at a dinner party:

Religion
Sex
Politics
Lotro PvMP

Enjoy Spring Break Spiderbyte!

Oh, and to whoever claimed OP status because minis have an aoe rez like warleaders may want to turn in their veteran card. Big difference between a long induction, out of combat aoe rez and an uninterruptable, zero induction aoe rez.

Originally Posted by chrisCML

Curious as to why you think it favours creeps over freeps.....

For starters audacity itself favours healing classes the most....freepside has more classes with heals/self heals (and greater hps), and they are more dangerous to begin with. You could also argue by creating longer fights....you are creating more chances for fight changing crit/devs to occur....and atm freep crit rates/magnitudes > creep.

I agree that healing is fairly broken with audacity (and freeps have more healing). Healing aside, there are 2 reasons why I think the addition of audacity 7 does a little bit more for a creep than a freep. (Dont get me wrong, creeps need the boost.)

1. Creeps get 7 audacity without giving up anything else in their build. (Its just added on top of everything else.) By contrast the audacity stat is costed into each piece of the moors armor as about the equivalent of 30 ability points. That means that when a freep is wearing 6 pieces (for audacity 7) they are giving up roughly 180 ability points in their build.

2. Freeps generally have more CC/stuns than creeps, so a blanket nerf to cc duration hits freeps a little harder than creeps. (With audacity 7 on my spider its quite refreshing to be able to fight champs/burgs/rks etc and not spend the whole fight stunned and then dead...)

Originally Posted by PuhFifer

Enjoy Spring Break Spiderbyte!

Oh, and to whoever claimed OP status because minis have an aoe rez like warleaders may want to turn in their veteran card. Big difference between a long induction, out of combat aoe rez and an uninterruptable, zero induction aoe rez.

In raid vs raid situations, there's almost always 6-8 minstrels (allbeit many of them might not be grouped). It is fairly easy for one of them to go unnoticed long enough to get a rez off. I usually have to dedicate a spider and a warg to look around and try to keep any and all mins in combat. Sometimes we let them squeeze a few off though, as it generally just means more points for us. Also, if I may point out, I never claimed it was OP. I simply said that was one thing creeps once had over freeps, which is no longer the case. L2read

Sad to hear it spider, what will we do without our fearless tribe leader?

Originally Posted by PuhFifer

Enjoy Spring Break Spiderbyte!

Oh, and to whoever claimed OP status because minis have an aoe rez like warleaders may want to turn in their veteran card. Big difference between a long induction, out of combat aoe rez and an uninterruptable, zero induction aoe rez.

This must be coming from a minstrel, freep exclusive player.

Originally Posted by babaju2

This must be coming from a minstrel, freep exclusive player.

That's Danieltosh. Not a min, but obviously freep-only.

Sorry, maybe some day I will have nothing better to do with my life than grind out 8 toons for the moors. In the meantime I have played a bit of creep and find it completely boring, so I will stick to my one freep. I think it's more enjoyable to have a side and stick with it, then swap with all my buddies from side to side flipping the map for easy commendations.

Originally Posted by PuhFifer

Sorry, maybe some day I will have nothing better to do with my life than grind out 8 toons for the moors. In the meantime I have played a bit of creep and find it completely boring, so I will stick to my one freep. I think it's more enjoyable to have a side and stick with it, then swap with all my buddies from side to side flipping the map for easy commendations.

You make a good point. As much as you love flipping keeps, it'd certainly be pointless for you to play creepside, as it would be a vicious never-ending cycle of you flipping keeps as you go from side to side.

Originally Posted by PuhFifer

Sorry, maybe some day I will have nothing better to do with my life than grind out 8 toons for the moors. In the meantime I have played a bit of creep and find it completely boring, so I will stick to my one freep. I think it's more enjoyable to have a side and stick with it, then swap with all my buddies from side to side flipping the map for easy commendations.

One side would be nice to be on, but it's never fun on the sporadic nights when there is little to fight. Don't see how people find that enjoyable.