Discussion: Command Set in RvR

Hey, any of you captains run 5-Command in RvR battles in the moors? Are you able to use it effectively (on the target assist most of the time) while still being a good support healer?

Personally, I have a hell of a time keeping up with the dps target assist while still healing. It changes so often, and the dudes are all running around, as are my heal targets, as am I. Gets disorienting, so I just hit tab, 1, 5, 7 for my battle shout, pressing attack, inspire etc on the nearest creep. My eye's are on my raid's heal bars 80% of the time.

Envoyé par Omen_Kaizer

Personally, I have a hell of a time keeping up with the dps target assist while still healing.

I can't do it either man. My healing is so slow I find that if i'm not looking at the raid panels completely I will miss a SotD, or a heal when it's time. I need every second available to get those off. Wargs tend to pack pounce your squishies so If I miss the warg stun icon then they are dead before I can protect them.

I'm one of the few cappys that stays back and heals in pvp. I just can't do both at the same time. One or the other always suffers when I try to do both so I have resigned myself to focusing on just one totally.

If any one has any psych tips on handling both with max effectiveness I would love the help as well.

As far as the running around I put my raid panels 1 and 2 on my left and right shoulder with my WOC right in between. I keep moving using my peripheral vision to stay near the majority of blue names. I can't let my eyes off those panels for a second or I miss something important. I watch my inspire and will just hit the nearest target when its back up, I also reguarly recheck my mark after every defeat repsonse.

Command set is best for pve or solo in moors, for RvR go 3 command 3 perserverance or 3 loyalty

Envoyé par Whipersnaper

Command set is best for pve or solo in moors, for RvR go 3 command 3 perserverance or 3 loyalty

For pve is command use 3 dagor/3 perserverance or 5 dagor.

Envoyé par Thaodan

For pve is command use 3 dagor/3 perserverance or 5 dagor.

I dont thinks so really, 6s rally cry is nice but not that much more usefull than a 15s RC , there are fights i will swap in 6s RC for sure
i think the +5% groupwide dmg from command is better at least for pve

Dagor 3 set is nice too but with sheild brother skills and WoC plus other stuff i have to do i have a hard time utilizing the set bonus as much as i would like too. in addition if i am getting alot of shadows laments out there is the chance to take aggro which is not good. kind of good on paper not as good in application problem with that bonus.

where as i can do all the things a captain has to do and add to the groups dps in a way that is just as good as going 5 red with the command set bonus without worrying about stealing aggro AND ill have a great laststand, better heals and an additional legendary slot to play with using a rainbow build

going all out dps is great for content where everyone has experience and the content is basically on farm, however i find that in every other group im just too busy to full take advantage of full out red build and associated armour

Imo there is no set bonus that comes even close to beeing as useful for a pvp raid as the 6 sec rally-cry, the difference between 6 sec and 15 sec is huge and it does not only help with healing, it also gives a nice power return (traited ofc).

For a pvp raid Ím not sure if the best way is to complement it with 3 dagor, but I do it myself cause I use that combo for everything else these days.

/Donothir, Snowbourn

Whiper I totally agree that 5 command is good stuff for a lot of boss fights.

Y'all remember that 6s rallying cry is only useful when things are dying quick enough

Envoyé par Omen_Kaizer

Y'all remember that 6s rallying cry is only useful when things are dying quick enough

Not really true, even against a single target. If you get 7-8 DB attempts per minute (not unreasonable), your chance of wanting to RC more than once per 15 seconds moderately often is pretty good (when critting on 2 DB in a row, as your DB are, say, one per 8 seconds if going all out). And if you use ToN, you may easily want it (TON, RC off of automatic defeat event, DB then crits).

Now that said, +10% DPS on a target is likely better most of the time. But also bear in mind that the set shortens cooldown of SL regardless and of routing cry -- not that routing cry is exactly a raid staple or useful against single targets.

Envoyé par DelgonTheWise

Not really true, even against a single target. If you get 7-8 DB attempts per minute (not unreasonable), your chance of wanting to RC more than once per 15 seconds moderately often is pretty good (when critting on 2 DB in a row, as your DB are, say, one per 8 seconds if going all out).

Having just run a script to simulate this, I can say that this happened rather more than I'd have guessed. For the following crit rates, these are the percentages of crits that have another crit before or after them:

crit rate %crits in series
25% 44.0%
20% 36.6%
15% 27.3%
10% 20.6%

Here are the sort of stats my simulation showed for a series of 100000

src(1002)$ perl ~/temp/crits.pl
1: 14078
2: 3587
3: 927
4: 216
5: 51
6: 14
7: 4
8: 1
crit rate used: 25
Total crits: 25272
%crits observed: 25.272
Crits in streaks: 11194
%crits in streaks: 44.29

For those who like to see methodology:

Code:

#!/usr/bin/perl -w

use strict;

my %streaks;
my $streak = 0;
my $crits = 0;
my $crit_threshold = 25;
my $reps = 100000;

for ( my $i = 0; $i < $reps; $i++ )
{
    my $result = rand(99);
    if ( $result < $crit_threshold )
    {
        $crits++;
        $streak++;
    }
    else 
    {
        if ( $streak >= 1 ) 
        {
            $streaks{$streak}++;
        }

        $streak = 0;
    }
}

my $calc_crits_in_streaks = 0;
foreach my $key (sort keys(%streaks))
{
    print "$key: $streaks{$key}\n";
    if ( $key > 1 )
    {
        $calc_crits_in_streaks += $key * $streaks{$key};
    }
}

print "crit rate used: $crit_threshold\n";
print "Total crits: $crits\n";
print "%crits observed: " . 100 * $crits / $reps . "\n";
print "Crits in streaks: $calc_crits_in_streaks\n";
printf("%%crits in streaks: %0.2f\n", (100 * $calc_crits_in_streaks/ $crits));

Can someone say what the Command set bonuses are?

I really do need to get in game more often >.<

Envoyé par Almagnus1

Can someone say what the Command set bonuses are?

I really do need to get in game more often >.<

This spreadsheet has it all:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...wMUhOOXc#gid=0

Wish they'd update the darned lorebook.

Anyway, 3 piece of command is -25% last stand cooldown, 5 piece is sure strike gives +5% incoming damage to target for 10 seconds. So if you hit sure strike whenever it is up, target gets +10% incoming damage, a huge win when focusing on single targets as in boss fights...

Envoyé par DelgonTheWise

Anyway, 3 piece of command is -25% last stand cooldown, 5 piece is sure strike gives +5% incoming damage to target for 10 seconds. So if you hit sure strike whenever it is up, target gets +10% incoming damage, a huge win when focusing on single targets as in boss fights...

Not to mention because of the 10 SS/min, thats like -20 s of BS cooldown a minute, so if you're Rainbow with renewed voice, we're looking at a theoretical 5 DB/min (which you could do without Command set, but you get more incentive to do so with 5 Command). Traited red with 5-Command, thats 7 theoretical DB/min; 6 in practice, if I had to guess. Note that spamming sure strikes clogs the rotation like spamming BoE is with 3-Dagor.

I think the easiest way to get 6 DB/min is still 3-Pers with MoW capstone. Thats still around 2x more synthetic defeat responses than 5b/2y, and it allows room for all your Brother stuff, inspires, some WoC. With 2-hander attack speed, the 8 DB/min from 3-Pers/3-Dagor is kind of a best case scenario number (from what I've seen).

I'm quite sure that the command set is much better than 3 perserverence/3 Dagor for pve. 10% of 10 000 is 1k dps and that's the low end of what most kins putout in a raid situation. Remember Raid DPS>your dps and if you are worried about healing go HoH.

On topic, I always use 1h/shield to cut down on skill animation duration. It doesn't help with SotD (since it's a fast skill), but you notice the difference with inspire/WoC for sure. The stat boost and block is nice but that's the primary reason I use it. My personal dps doesn't matter and I'm more disruptive to healers since I attack faster.

I can't sit back and just hit heal buttons when I'm healing in the moors. Only WoC is targeted and it has a 3s cooldown. What do you guys do in that window? I always am hitting something, target assist or not and you have to if you want to use VS and inspire. I prioritize on healing (since its much more powerful than dpsing) but at least I will always get auto-attacks off.

One thing you can do if you have target forwarding enabled is pick the target caller of their raid. Sometimes this is the raidleader, sometimes it's a random dps and just stick on him. Then WoC just becomes part of your rotation, you just dps->WoC->dps->WoC rinse and repeat.

Another thing is positioning I always try to keep within 25m of all my group members. So I can heal and get close to the people taking more damage and hit VS. I almost exclusively small group but if it's a RvR situation just make sure it's applied to your healer before you run off since they are the ones most likely to take damage.

My only advice for being able to follow target assist is learn to automate your class. This way you can think about swapping targets/movement and the green bars while your dps/healing skills are going off in the background. SotD not being raid wide is sort of a blessing in this regard since you only have to watch 6 bars of health.

Envoyé par TheBigMenace

On topic, I always use 1h/shield to cut down on skill animation duration. It doesn't help with SotD (since it's a fast skill), but you notice the difference with inspire/WoC for sure. The stat boost and block is nice but that's the primary reason I use it. My personal dps doesn't matter and I'm more disruptive to healers since I attack faster.

I can't sit back and just hit heal buttons when I'm healing in the moors. Only WoC is targeted and it has a 3s cooldown. What do you guys do in that window? I always am hitting something, target assist or not and you have to if you want to use VS and inspire. I prioritize on healing (since its much more powerful than dpsing) but at least I will always get auto-attacks off.

One thing you can do if you have target forwarding enabled is pick the target caller of their raid. Sometimes this is the raidleader, sometimes it's a random dps and just stick on him. Then WoC just becomes part of your rotation, you just dps->WoC->dps->WoC rinse and repeat.

Another thing is positioning I always try to keep within 25m of all my group members. So I can heal and get close to the people taking more damage and hit VS. I almost exclusively small group but if it's a RvR situation just make sure it's applied to your healer before you run off since they are the ones most likely to take damage.

My only advice for being able to follow target assist is learn to automate your class. This way you can think about swapping targets/movement and the green bars while your dps/healing skills are going off in the background. SotD not being raid wide is sort of a blessing in this regard since you only have to watch 6 bars of health.

Good tip on targeting through their shot-caller.

I always try to smack somebody for inspire, etc; my issue is keeping up with the constantly switching target of our raid while simultaneously keeping up with WoC on whichever freep's being targeted (which I usually determine by who's bar is dropping. Targeting through their raid assist sounds more proactive.) It might well be one or the other, until I develop some crazy multitasking skills.

Use skill target forwarding so that when you have a creep selected you can keep track of the health of their target. Hitting WoC or SotD while you have the creep selected will apply it to their target.

This makes it much easier to heal without having to click on the freep your trying to save first. In small group situations this is even more of a difference because in that case you NEED to be keeping up the dps. As long as they are actually focus firing then this method works really well. If they are not focus firing then you'll destroy them anyways most likely so it doesn't matter.

oh and for RvR the 6s CD on RC is hands-down the best option you can get.