So I was browsing the notes in Bullroarer for U7 and found out that freeps are getting a boost to dps.....of course this isn't final, but why is this even being considered? Do RK, Mini, Ward, and Champ really need more to be added to their already high dps?? Minis and Wards are pretty much immortal, and Runekeepers deal out 5k-8k damage regularly.
Weren't we told that minis would be nerfed? (I may be wrong).
And what do the creeps get?
Typo fixes? Whoo hoo that will really balance things out! Genius!
And then there is the comms system, which really needs to be addressed. I saw no mention of anything being done with the comms. So it looks like the ridiculously high prices are sticking around, making it hard for all creeps, but especially new ones, from getting skills and traits, and therefore, actually being a threat to the freeps.
I guess I should stop getting my hopes up that Turbine actually cares for the PvP.
So I was browsing the notes in Bullroarer for U7 and found out that freeps are getting a boost to dps.....of course this isn't final, but why is this even being considered? Do RK, Mini, Ward, and Champ really need more to be added to their already high dps?? Minis and Wards are pretty much immortal, and Runekeepers deal out 5k-8k damage regularly.
Weren't we told that minis would be nerfed? (I may be wrong).
And what do the creeps get?
Typo fixes? Whoo hoo that will really balance things out! Genius!
And then there is the comms system, which really needs to be addressed. I saw no mention of anything being done with the comms. So it looks like the ridiculously high prices are sticking around, making it hard for all creeps, but especially new ones, from getting skills and traits, and therefore, actually being a threat to the freeps.
I guess I should stop getting my hopes up that Turbine actually cares for the PvP.
Wardens...high dps...WHAT?!? My Wardens triumph (best dps skill) hits for 700 crits now on creeps and i know the 1337 wardens have the same problem. and wardens immortal? xD Only if ur shield traited, at which point it takes 10minutes to kill anything.
and the DPS increase is star light crystals..can drop in lootboxes and a very rare chance from skraids.
Arguments against this is irrelevant. Doesn't matter if it is extremely rare. The fast they are boosting freep legendaries without any change to creeps is ridiculous.
@ guner it takes no time to kill my reaver with a warden. They can DPS me until they feel the need for 1 simple HoT which is more than enough for them to live.
Mini's were "supposed" to catch something (which we aren't seeing in BR)
Audacity has yet to affect healing (which makes heal classes extremely difficult to take down)
Let's be honest here... In the 5 years I have played the game PvP has always been unbalanced more towards the Freep side, although creeps have had some glory days.
Lotro has also always had balancing issues... think SoA. My burg was unkillable, as was my LM.
Just roll with the punches and eventualy things will come your way... and if nothing else roll the flavor of the month and live it up, on freepside it takes a month or less to hit 75 and get decently geared.
On creepside i would say if your play time is right (especially aussies) you could get your toon in a good spot in a month or so as well, you just need a good farming plan for comms and use multiple newbies. I have found making a newbie getting your poor maps (500 comms each) <- doesn't take long. Then delete and restart, you multiply this by 3-4 newbie creeps and in a week you can have 2-3 pieces of freep gear or whatever audacity for creeps.
So far on the mini i have gotten 8.5k comms in roughly 3 days, prob not the best but hey I don't spend much time farming. 3 pieces in about a week and a half ish. so it is something to consider maybe you guys have better methods but that is what works for me.
I guess I see both sides really, It is an added grind for something Turbine doesn't care very much about. Now not only do you have to grind for all your PvE stuff you now need to spend a month to make an entire new build for a small underutilized part of the game.
I do it.... but pvp has always been my main reason to play games, I came from an FPS background which could explain my rash, crazy, almost physcotic behavior and bad language. Apperently the mmo crowd likes to hide behind GM's where as if you go off on someone and start raging in an FPS they start talking about your momma and your children.
Woot for the dps ......also comm's are not that hard to get on a good day of pvp you can get 5 to 6k comm's pretty easy so i don't understand why people are complaining about it.....just guess most people don't want to work for it.....
Yeah... NO.
Freeps don't need ANY more dps, period. If creeps had anything like the dps output freeps have you all would throw a hissy fit. And the players that need Comms the most, the low ranked creeps, aren't getting 5-6k in a day without playing ALL day. Even if they do play all day they probably won't. And if they did it wouldn't be enough to buy all the skills. You have r5 creeps that can't even buy r5 skills.
The reason you don't understand why people are complaining is because you don't know what you're talking about.
Founder of Baruk Khazad (Arkenstone)
Minardi DarkKhazad
Tazio Nuvolari
Im pretty sure skills cost 2k comms...and by rank 5 you should have enough to buy what u want...im r4 on my warg and i went p2w for 2 skills (r8/r10 or w/e) and i have all my r0-4 skills, corruptions etc and i gained em when i went on a warg only few days of playing so...its pretty easy still
Woot for the dps ......also comm's are not that hard to get on a good day of pvp you can get 5 to 6k comm's pretty easy so i don't understand why people are complaining about it.....just guess most people don't want to work for it.....
Oh and what about the reaver? A class that needs some serious help/upgrades. Most reavers i see get crushed unless they are 1v1ing a lower ranked class.
But freeps get more stuff.
Rich get richer and the poor get poorer. It is real life, but i didnt expect to see it in a game of all things.
More DPS, more ezmoding, more ways to feel good about oneself. It's clear that people who cheer over these "improvements" aren't interested in a good game and a challenge. Same people who would use walkthroughs and never venture from easy mode on console games.
Classes so buffed up they are 3 shotting opponents and near impossible to kill. They get to brag and cheer themselves on over complete mediocrity. When you show up with the more than one player it takes to kill them, even though they know they are impossible to kill and likely to get at least one kill before going down, they cry because you zerged them instead of facing them alone and doing a whopping total of 200dmg over 12 skill usages while they laughed in your face over how skilled they are. Ezmoding at its finest.
Would be nice if Turbine would go on a Buddhist retreat and learn about balance. Lately, however, it seems they are on a kick freepside to continually boost them and make half the playerbase miserable. Will be fun in some future update when they nerf freeps to hell again and overbuff the creeps. It's always been a mess, but over the past several months it seems to be at its worst and becoming more so.
I look forward to going out on my newest freep, should be real a challenge. Fortunately, it's not one of the latest flavours of the month and I'm a noob anyway, so creepside will be happy to have some easy points coming their way.
<3 Bonnie
Last edited by Summberbell; May 09 2012 at 11:21 AM.
Im pretty sure skills cost 2k comms...and by rank 5 you should have enough to buy what u want...im r4 on my warg and i went p2w for 2 skills (r8/r10 or w/e) and i have all my r0-4 skills, corruptions etc and i gained em when i went on a warg only few days of playing so...its pretty easy still
On BW my warg got enhanced stealth, shadow, disappear and my health corruptions by rank 4. Nothing else. Oh and I rolled 4 other creep classes to get crude maps towards warg skills. That is not easy for someone new to pvmp.
You keep telling yourself that freeps are so hard done by and creeps have it so easy. Makes it easier to pat yourself on the back I suppose.
Kind of surprised to see some people that think higher dps for already high-dps freeps is good, and people that think that comms are easy to come by....maybe by deleting a rolling a toon over and over.
In almost ALL of my fights in moors, I am getting blown away by a RK (5-10k damage), a Champion (triple bubbles and high dps), and a Mini or Warden (almost complete immortality). And they need a dps boost??? So the RK needs to be able to hit me for 15k instead of 10k (just an example)???
Example: Yesterday, A warden has the relic. Has ALL of the top floor of TA on him plus about 6-8 creeps as well. Barely scratched him. Maybe took off 1k of his 12-13k health. Why does he need a dps boost? Why does he need a boost to anything?
Example 2: R3 Runekeeper vs R4 Warg Stalker: Hits me up for a 10k damage EC. I have 9k health.....he is lower rank than me......this needs a dps boost huh?
Not to mention (even though i did much griding for comms, mostly from PvE in a PvP world, I don't have many skills. (my lower ranked toons)
How can some people think that is how it is supposed to be? LOL there are so many people that think they are "elite" when in reality they are just crushing the poorly equipped, outnumbered (only lately) creeps.
Last edited by Selebrimbor; May 09 2012 at 01:55 PM.
Who is that r3 RK I want that RK's stuff I never hit that hard
I've never gotten out of the 5000s
Also rank doesn't mean a ton for freeps as far as how hard they can hit you and vice versa; the audacity gear doesn't have a rank requirement I think
but creeps should get a dps-boost before freeps do
except wargs
wargs already have a tremendous advantage over most creeps and freeps in my opinion
S T E A L T H
^rare pic of Amy in stealth mode
Wardens...high dps...WHAT?!? My Wardens triumph (best dps skill) hits for 700 crits now on creeps and i know the 1337 wardens have the same problem. and wardens immortal? xD Only if ur shield traited, at which point it takes 10minutes to kill anything.
and the DPS increase is star light crystals..can drop in lootboxes and a very rare chance from skraids.
So you are advocating for the dps boosts to freeps? yes?
Wardens...high dps...WHAT?!? My Wardens triumph (best dps skill) hits for 700 crits now on creeps and i know the 1337 wardens have the same problem. and wardens immortal? xD Only if ur shield traited, at which point it takes 10minutes to kill anything.
and the DPS increase is star light crystals..can drop in lootboxes and a very rare chance from skraids.
Warden's Triumph isn't the highest dps Warden skill. If you don't know this by now, then I suggest you re-evaluate Warden gambits and their damage output. The highest dps warden skill is Unerring Strike. Even if you don't include the bleed which can do over 300 damage every 4 seconds for 32 seconds, the straight dps of it when used while a medium bleed is present is higher than that of Warden's Triumph
Also, it doesn't take 10 minutes to kill anything while shield-traited. Even high-ranked Warleaders should be dead in under 5 minutes if you're using your gambits right and switching stances as neccesary.
Wardens...high dps...WHAT?!? My Wardens triumph (best dps skill) hits for 700 crits now on creeps and i know the 1337 wardens have the same problem. and wardens immortal? xD Only if ur shield traited, at which point it takes 10minutes to kill anything.
and the DPS increase is star light crystals..can drop in lootboxes and a very rare chance from skraids.
So you are advocating for the dps boosts to freeps? yes?
I don't know if that was his intended implication or not, but using this logic then a number of classes need to be adjusted.
A skilled defiler is known to survive forever but has low DPS resulting in excruciatingly long battles as you slowly whittle down someone's health. So, boost their DPS greatly so they are indestructible and able to nuke their opponents in seconds.
A S&B Guard can survive forever, but do little DPS. DAMAGE BOOST! Now you can't kill it AND get destroyed by it.
There are, of course, other examples.
Do this to every class and no one will ever die unless focus fired by a large group. Of course, I'm sure most just think of it only in terms of what they want for their class or side because they want to win.
Take a look at mini, many are more or less indestructible and able to obliterate an opponent easily in seconds. This is the best example of what goes wrong when you can't find balance.
There's a reason that in probably every game since the dawn of time mages are squishy and masters of heals/CC/Debuffs, tanks can easily manage and survive multiple targets while doing little damage and damage dealers often take middle ground damage while dealing out high DPS. It creates a balance. It creates a challenge. It forces players to actually think about what they are using and when. If you take that away, there's no need to even have multiple classes. Just make everyone do the exact same thing.
I get that everyone wants to be able to win, but it shouldn't be that easy all the time. If it is, where's the fun? Every victory would be hollow and just another notch on the belt. /yawn. But I guess some people just want a straight path to the next shiny object.
I love my defiler and I love playing it as a squishy pocket healer. While there are times I'm frustrated with my lack of DPS or overall squishyness and I might complain at the time, I wouldn't ever formally request for it to be any other way. It shouldn't be. Every class should have strengths and weaknesses and right now, weaknesses are sorely lacking in a number of areas. Hell, I remember once upon a time, soloing a red/purple mob, elites, etc. in PvE could be a challenge. Now even PvE is just completely on window-licker mode and you can solo those things easily. I like balance and it would be nice to see Turbine figure it out.
However, since I doubt this is in our future, I guess I'll just call up Turbine CS about my defiler...
Heck, all of my toons. But just mine. Not yours. Suck it.
I like the challenge as well. I like to have to think of what i have to do with my Blackarrow, and what skills to use when, as opposed to sitting back and spamming my highest dps skill all the time. I like be challenged by other thinking players.
What I don't like is charging into keeps, opposing raids or groups, or players, knowing that I will most likely die, not because of lack of skill or that the other player is more skilled than me, but because that player is A) indestructable, B.) can take out my whole freaking health bar in one blow.
Abilities and Gear being > thinking abilities and skill is not good pvp.
Lol and what is with the forums showing all of the posts out of order? It is confusing!
I like the challenge as well. I like to have to think of what i have to do with my Blackarrow, and what skills to use when, as opposed to sitting back and spamming my highest dps skill all the time. I like be challenged by other thinking players.
What I don't like is charging into keeps, opposing raids or groups, or players, knowing that I will most likely die, not because of lack of skill or that the other player is more skilled than me, but because that player is A) indestructable, B.) can take out my whole freaking health bar in one blow.
Abilities and Gear being > thinking abilities and skill is not good pvp.
QFT.
Originally Posted by Selebrimbor
Lol and what is with the forums showing all of the posts out of order? It is confusing!
Apparently the game itself isn't the only thing to go into window-licker mode.
It's been obnoxious. Posts getting lost, reordered, 20 attempts to even submit a post or just to get a link to load instead of constantly reloading the page you're on. Maybe they will implement the forum store now where you can pay a small fee of $9.99 per post and $3.99 per link click without bugs.
I would love to talk to the rk that hit you for 10k because i have only hit as high as 8.5k ec it would be nice to be able to hit that. i hit that's with around 31.5k tactical mastery and over 20% crit with 14% dev mag.....also i agree a creep class need their dps increased; spiders, are really the only one in my opinion or they need their tactical mit's up some more, but getting dps added to legendary's is also good......talking more on the pve side of things and if you guy's have tested it out it makes very little difference any way's. That is of course if people are reading about it/doing the testing. instead of just complaining about it
Who is that r3 RK I want that RK's stuff I never hit that hard
I've never gotten out of the 5000s
Also rank doesn't mean a ton for freeps as far as how hard they can hit you and vice versa; the audacity gear doesn't have a rank requirement I think
but creeps should get a dps-boost before freeps do
except wargs
wargs already have a tremendous advantage over most creeps and freeps in my opinion
S T E A L T H
^rare pic of Amy in stealth mode
Burgs and Huntards have stealth and hit way harder than my fat puppy. Just sayin....
P.S How did you get your hands on that pic??? Tbow!!!!!
Audacity was a great idea. It slows down combat, and therefore is WAI. Comms were also a good idea. But while they looked good on paper, in practice it does not WAI. Comms are difficult to earn, and the prices of skills, traits, appearances, and audacity are way too high creepside (as others have already pointed out). Audacity is helpful, however due to low creep DPS and high freep healing the biggest problems of all still remain.
Solutions? In my mind, comms earned through player kills should be equal to the infamy earned from a kill. This would increase comm gain and encourage PvP. Comms should not be removed from PvE, as that is the best way for greenies to get some comms coming in.
Comm costs for skills, traits, audacity, etc on creepside should be reduced. How much? I don't know. Maybe by half?
Increase creep DPS, and create a moors only incoming healing nerf to freeps. These values don't need to be huge so long as they're both implemented at the same time.
That's just my opinion anyway. I'm taking a break until things improve some.
@ aza, WT is meant to do the most damage but due to audacity it doesnt...and what ive found is the unnerring strike that it hits higher with a bleed on the enemy..yeah it does but WT still does the highest amount of base damage (when i look at my gambits) atleast so far as i remember it.
@ aza, WT is meant to do the most damage but due to audacity it doesnt...and what ive found is the unnerring strike that it hits higher with a bleed on the enemy..yeah it does but WT still does the highest amount of base damage (when i look at my gambits) atleast so far as i remember it.
It doesn't just hit higher. Find an npc, pop a medium bleed on it and then a big bleed. Run away. Look at combat log. You'll see what I mean. There is an additional number. While it doesn't mention the exact number in your gambit list, it needs to be taken into account.
@ aza, WT is meant to do the most damage but due to audacity it doesnt...and what ive found is the unnerring strike that it hits higher with a bleed on the enemy..yeah it does but WT still does the highest amount of base damage (when i look at my gambits) atleast so far as i remember it.
Quite frankly WT is not longer the highest damage skill that Warden's have in their arsenal. If you are looking for a high damage burst skill (5 Gambit Icon) you should probably check out DBtD. It typically hits harder than WT has since Isen, no real reason to liberally use WT anymore.
Also, Warden bleeds are quite ridiculous, Bonus damage on the PA line + SoD/Desolation when traited = nasty.
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Originally Posted by Selebrimbor
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......also comm's are not that hard to get on a good day of pvp you can get 5 to 6k comm's pretty easy so i don't understand why people are complaining about it.....just guess most people don't want to work for it.....
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Fortunately, it's not one of the latest flavours of the month and I'm a noob anyway, so creepside will be happy to have some easy points coming their way. 
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