Thread: Different maintenance day - NOT MONDAY!

Damn forums are messing me up.


Edit: I'm not the OP of this thread!

So you're saying that since the game is down for maintenance for 6-7 hours, you can't play for the other 17-18 hours that day?

Edit: wow forums are really messing up. I posted this at 12:38 eastern and it should have been post #7

Why, I ask, do Turbine do their server updates/maintenance on a Monday?

This is the most common day for a bank/national holiday across the world, and means a lost day of game play for non-US users at some point. Lost game play not only frustrates users, but provides less oportunity for spending money on Turbine Points, etc. Thus, Monday as an update day is bad for business and bad for users. In fact, other than the weekend, Monday is the worst possible choice!

Suggested alternative days: Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday.

For me, addressing this issue is far more important than any game changes.

My guess: Maintenance is Monday cos then if they break things they have 4 days to fix them.

The loss of TP sales from bank holidays in the UK (say, but given there was a bank holiday here yesterday I'm guessing we're from the same island) is a drop in the water compared to what they would lose if they broke the game on a Thursday and it was down over the weekend, globally.

considering how often something like forums get broken, or the restart gets delayed to something unexpected, perhaps it's better to do this on a tuesday (mondays certainly have a higher chance of experiencing problems ).

Originally Posted by DeathCake

Why, I ask, do Turbine do their server updates/maintenance on a Monday?

Because Monday is one of the seven days in the week. QED

This is the most common day for a bank/national holiday across the world, and means a lost day of game play for non-US users at some point.

Not everyone has those holidays precious.

Lost game play not only frustrates users, but provides less oportunity for spending money on Turbine Points, etc.

Right, because people spend TP by the hour

It would be interesting to see how big percentage of players is actually affected by the downtime, at the very least half of the world isn't.

Originally Posted by Unique

So you're saying that since the game is down for maintenance for 6-7 hours, you can't play for the other 17-18 hours that day?

Edit: wow forums are really messing up. I posted this at 12:38 eastern and it should have been post #7

So you don't factor sleep, food and other human elements into your day?

Those 6-7 hours are 'core' time for most Europeans ie. late morning to evening. On a rainy holiday afternoon, I for one wouldn't mind having the chance to play lotro before going back to work the next day.

And counter to what someone else said, the most common day for a national holiday is in fact Monday. Obviously, it's not going to be the same Monday throughout, but it's still a Monday! Hence, why chose that day? Are they really factoring in those 4 days just to correct a mistake? I find that reasoning tenuous at best.

I come from a marketing background, and it makes no sense to miss out on custom, even if it's a smaller proportion of the bigger audience (still, EU is the second largest audience group). Would it hurt US users to have maintenance take place early Tuesday? Nope, it makes no odds. QED... ad infinitum...

Originally Posted by DeathCake

Why, I ask, do Turbine do their server updates/maintenance on a Monday?

This is the most common day for a bank/national holiday across the world, and means a lost day of game play for non-US users at some point. Lost game play not only frustrates users, but provides less oportunity for spending money on Turbine Points, etc. Thus, Monday as an update day is bad for business and bad for users. In fact, other than the weekend, Monday is the worst possible choice!

Suggested alternative days: Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday.

For me, addressing this issue is far more important than any game changes.

First...there are no days that aren't a holiday for someone, somewhere.

Second...Turbine wouldn't want to do maintenance on a weekend (a weekend *anywhere*, which would rule out Friday in Massachusetts).

Third...It is desirable to have as much time as possible, when the staff is normally at work, to resolve any issues that may come up...and the resolution may require contacting vendors, who may need time to get an answer back (notice the Forums are still not working correctly and it's Tuesday already).

Fourth...Turbine is in the US. Given the constraints of points 1, 2 and 3, they'll pick a Monday that isn't a US holiday, and in their shoes, so would I.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

And fifth, Mondays at the times usually down for maintenance have been shown to be the lowest general population times for the game, hence why Turbine chooses those hours. If anyone thinks that Turbine takes the game offline during optimal playtimes needs to understand that Turbine's own metrics show that they will impact the least amount of people at specific times.

Think about it, Turbine wants the game to be up as much as possible because they know that every hour it isn't is lost possible revenue for them.

Originally Posted by Unique

So you're saying that since the game is down for maintenance for 6-7 hours, you can't play for the other 17-18 hours that day?

Edit: wow forums are really messing up. I posted this at 12:38 eastern and it should have been post #7

So you don't factor sleep, food and other human elements into your day?

Those 6-7 hours are 'core' time for most Europeans ie. late morning to evening. On a rainy holiday afternoon, I for one wouldn't mind having the chance to play lotro before going back to work the next day.

And counter to what someone else said, the most common day for a national holiday is in fact Monday. Obviously, it's not going to be the same Monday throughout, but it's still a Monday! Hence, why chose that day? Are they really factoring in those 4 days just to correct a mistake? I find that reasoning tenuous at best.

I come from a marketing background, and it makes no sense to miss out on custom, even if it's a smaller proportion of the bigger audience (still, EU is the second largest audience group). Would it hurt US users to have maintenance take place early Tuesday? Nope, it makes no odds. QED... ad infinitum...

Originally Posted by DeathCake

And counter to what someone else said, the most common day for a national holiday is in fact Monday.

What kind of holidays do you people celebrate? Apart from Easter every other one we have is set on a certain date and as such it is as probable to be held on Saturday or Wednesday as it is Monday (more or less).

Originally Posted by DeathCake

So you don't factor sleep, food and other human elements into your day?

Those 6-7 hours are 'core' time for most Europeans ie. late morning to evening.

Of course I know people have to sleep/eat/take care of daily things, I was just suggesting that you could use the downtime to run errands, do the laundry, go shopping, put dinner in the crock pot, take a nap, etc........ then when the servers are up in the evening, play.

Sorry I didn't think mornings/early afternoon was 'core' gaming time, I thought evenings were more popular.

1. People work all different shifts and all different schedules. I work Wed-Sunday, late morning & evenings. Our son works nights Tues-Saturday. Which day & time would accommodate us both?
2. Since the game has some international appeal, holidays also vary.
3. Support of the game is based out of the north eastern US. As others pointed out, Monday morning gives them time to work out more bugs should they occur in a patch or maintenance session.
4. It's a game. They announce down time and sometimes that gets extended. Most of us plan around the down time AND expect that not everything goes smoothly. Delays and outages happen in games. Always have, always will.
5. If I am going to patronize a company not in my time zone or part of the world, then it's reasonable to expect that they will be working the bulk of their time on the traditional hours of their time zone.
6. Someone will always be at a disadvantage no matter what day or hours they choose. This is not a single player game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_holiday

"A bank holiday is a public holiday in the United Kingdom or a colloquialism for public holiday in Ireland. There is no automatic right to time off on these days, although the majority of the population is granted time off work or extra pay for working on these days, depending on their contract."

Bank Holidays are mainly in the United Kingdom... So how is this the majority of EU players?..

I live in Scotland, and i find Monday to be fine, most people i know work through a monday regardless if it's a bank holiday or not, the only people that dont, are those at School, College or University.

Originally Posted by Reniannen

What kind of holidays do you people celebrate? Apart from Easter every other one we have is set on a certain date and as such it is as probable to be held on Saturday or Wednesday as it is Monday (more or less).

In the US, quite a few holidays that used to be on specific dates have been moved to the nearest Monday, to give people that great desideratum, a three-day weekend.

Some examples: Lincoln's birthday (February 12) and Washington's birthday (February 22, allowing for calendar changes) used to be celebrated separately. They were merged into one day, "Presidents' Day," and moved to a Monday in the middle of the month. Memorial Day (which used to be Decoration Day, honouring Union soldiers who fell in the US Civil War) is on the last Monday of May. Labor Day, honouring working people (specifically union members) originally fell on a Tuesday, but was moved early on to the first Monday in September.

On the other hand, Independence Day (commemorating the signing of the Declaration of Independence) is still on July 4th, even if it falls in the middle of the week. If it falls on a Tuesday or Thursday, a lot of people take the Monday or Friday, respectively, off too -- even if they have to take a vacation day to do it.

Americans have a lot less vacation time in the working year than most Europeans. In France, they tell me, the entire nation goes on holiday for the whole month of August. There's nothing like that in the US. Two weeks' vacation is standard, and you generally can't get it until you've been working for the employer for a year. SOME employers gradually increase vacation time by one day every couple of years of employment, but for most of us it's two weeks, period. So the three-day weekends are valuable to us.

(Schoolteachers generally get the whole summer off,* but they don't get paid for it and have to budget carefully what they earn during the school year -- not a whole lot).

Thus, there are many Mondays on which Turbine will not be doing maintenance, in order to let their employees have their three-day weekends. Here, in fact, is a list of Federal Holidays celebrated by the entire nation.

http://www.opm.gov/operating_status_...edhol/2012.asp

_____
*U.S. schools below the college/university level shut down, or very nearly, during the three months of summer. This dates back to a time when most Americans were farmers and needed their children at home during the harvest season. High schools (whose students are aged about fourteen to seventeen) frequently hold small "summer school" sessions so that students can make up classes they failed during the school year. It is suggested from time to time that American schools switch to a year-round program. This proposition is very popular with parents, unpopular with students. I don't know what my father, a teacher, thought of the idea -- I never asked him.

Originally Posted by PhantomStorm

I live in Scotland, and i find Monday to be fine, most people i know work through a monday regardless if it's a bank holiday or not, the only people that dont, are those at School, College or University.

Or, one presumes, if one works for a bank...

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by Zarador

1. If I am going to patronize a company not in my time zone or part of the world, then it's reasonable to expect that they will be working the bulk of their time on the traditional hours of their time zone.
   

Please consider that many of us in Europe started playing through a company in OUR timezone and that this was changed without consulting the player base.

Of course, in those days, maintenance was on a Thursday. Every Thursday! So, on the whole, I'm not complaining too much.

But Tuesday would be better ....

Originally Posted by whheydt

Or, one presumes, if one works for a bank...

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Many companies or in some cases industries have specific local holidays which are not "National" holidays. In the USA, government and banks are two common cases. I used for a company that had 10 corporate holidays that we got off for pay. Of course most of the corporate holidays were assigned to the "National" holidays like "Independence Day". There was one floating holiday that was named after the Head of Human Resources because he selected the day we would all get off with pay.

We got a total of 10 days of combined sick, jury, vacation that we could use - as long as we put in a request 24 hours in advance and received management approval. We come in sick when we were dieing. We would wait for our management to send us home. It is amazing the number of dumb systems I have seen over the years given the large number of companies I have worked with.

I am currently part of the working population that does not get any time off. I only get paid when I work. When Wednesday the July 4, 2012 arrives. My peers will get the day off with pay. I will probably work that day. It is in the middle of the week. Ms. Yula can't build a long weekend around it.

Turbine uses Mondays because it is easy to find a working Monday as USA company. Turbine has all week to solve issues like the forum problems before everyone goes home for the week end.

Originally Posted by djheydt

It is suggested from time to time that American schools switch to a year-round program. This proposition is very popular with parents, unpopular with students.

That's how I spent my entire High School years. We were on a 'track' system, two months off every 4 months. It was difficult to get used to, after spending the previous 9 years on a traditional' schedule, but by 11th grade it was pretty much routine.

I turned out just fine (relatively speaking of course).

Speaking of time off, our company doles out vacation time in terms of *hours*. I earn .1194 hours vaca per hour worked, up to a max bank of 320 hours....and I've been here 25 years. I earn the same amount of vacation time as someone who's been here 10 years. I wish it were more cut and dry - 8 hours per pay period or something simple to remember.

Anyway, back on topic. Monday's as good as any other.

Originally Posted by Roberto_the_First

That's how I spent my entire High School years. We were on a 'track' system, two months off every 4 months. It was difficult to get used to, after spending the previous 9 years on a traditional' schedule, but by 11th grade it was pretty much routine.

Interesting. But what usually gets proposed (in California, anyway) is a twelve-month schedule with maybe a two-week vacation in somewhere, plus a week's winter break and a long-weekend spring spring break. In other words, just like the working world.

/signed

I'm typically working, but it does seem Tuesday would make more sense. Friday and Monday are days people pick more often for a long weekend,

I am so confused..who the OP?

Originally Posted by Ceremony

I am so confused..who the OP?

Unless I'm mistaken, it was started by DeathCake, whose post is now numbered #3. The forums, as you'll recall, were seriously messed up at the beginning of the week and that's how Nymphonic's post somehow wound up at the top.

Fortunately, the forums (touch wood) appear to be working again now.

Originally Posted by SaenDal

Please consider that many of us in Europe started playing through a company in OUR timezone and that this was changed without consulting the player base.

Of course, in those days, maintenance was on a Thursday. Every Thursday! So, on the whole, I'm not complaining too much.

But Tuesday would be better ....

Now your playing through a different companies time zone so you go by there time.

Originally Posted by djheydt

Interesting. But what usually gets proposed (in California, anyway) is a twelve-month schedule with maybe a two-week vacation in somewhere, plus a week's winter break and a long-weekend spring spring break. In other words, just like the working world.

I should point out that there were 3 tracks total, so that 1400 kids could attend a school designed for 800. There were only two tracks active at any one time, alternating months off. Was a bit tough if you had a friend on track A and you were on track B - they'd be on vacation while you were still in school...

Originally Posted by Ceremony

I am so confused..who the OP?

LOL, it's not me!

I saw my name as the OP and I was like "whaaaaaaat?"

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

Many companies or in some cases industries have specific local holidays which are not "National" holidays....

Sorry, Yula. I was going off the term "Bank Holiday" and the list of British institutions that close for them...banks were not listed, though given the practice of US banks of closing at every opportunity (or, at least, they used to), I just took it and ran.

Just to add a point of interest...long before it became fashionable elsewhere, the Alum Rock School District in San Jose, CA shut down for Cesar Chavez' birthday because he went to school there.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by whheydt

Sorry, Yula. I was going off the term "Bank Holiday" and the list of British institutions that close for them...banks were not listed, though given the practice of US banks of closing at every opportunity (or, at least, they used to), I just took it and ran.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

It is perfectly fine. I think many people in the USA and Europe with the term "Bank Holidays". The Banking industry is famous for closing at every chance they get. For the 50+ crowd, we had to plan around this issue. Years ago, there were no debit card, no credit cards, no ATMs, no online banking... You had to go inside the Bank to get paper money to buy things. A lot of companies didn't direct deposit. You had to carry your paper checks to the bank.

If a company like Nokia decides to have close of a Nokia holiday. Nobody going to notice. All cell phones manufacturers close for "Cell Phone" holiday. Nobody is going to notice.

When I lived and worked in Munich. Siemens is a huge employer. Something like 1/6 of the Munich residents work for Siemens or have an immediate family member working at Siemens. Every year at Christmas time, Siemens would shutdown for two weeks. You lived in Munich, you knew about the "Siemens Christmas Holidays". Frankfurt, Germany - probably not.

Originally Posted by DeathCake

Why, I ask, do Turbine do their server updates/maintenance on a Monday?

This is the most common day for a bank/national holiday across the world, and means a lost day of game play for non-US users at some point. Lost game play not only frustrates users, but provides less oportunity for spending money on Turbine Points, etc. Thus, Monday as an update day is bad for business and bad for users. In fact, other than the weekend, Monday is the worst possible choice!

Suggested alternative days: Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday.

For me, addressing this issue is far more important than any game changes.

Obviously Turbine is not listening. Lotro is going down for the prop of Update 7 on Monday.