Thread: spectator mode

Edit: Somehow my post jumped to first position. This was the first post:

Originally Posted by BFM

Whilst we all enjoy playing lotro I think it may be fun and educational to be able to invite people into spectator mode during a raid. It would allow people to learn the tactics without influencing the outcome. Perhaps even to allow spectate on a server you don't have a character.

Would anyone else enjoy watching a raid or think it may be useful?

And my anwswer: It could certainly give some credit to people doing hard stuff. And easy to check who's doing a good job or not.

Originally Posted by lutemaster

Nice parapraxis.

Thanks, although I must admit it was unintentional. SWYPE on my phone sometimes realises the wrong word, and it is a pain to edit on the phone, all done now though

I'm glad others think it may be a good idea also.

Like has been mentioned, it would allow people of lower levels to become familiar with a RAID without playing an active role. other than the usual, the devs should be working on the bugs argument, I can't think of a reason not to have it. I don't think it would break gameplay in any way?

Whilst we all enjoy playing lotro I think it may be fun and educational to be able to invite people into spectator mode during a raid. It would allow people to learn the tactics without influencing the outcome. Perhaps even to allow spectate on a server you don't have a character.

Would anyone else enjoy watching a raid or think it may be useful?

Originally Posted by BFM

Whilst we all enjoy paying lotro

Nice parapraxis.

My kin was just talking about that. It would be really good for ppl who are not yet at min level for instances or have lock outs etc.

/signed. This would be useful for learning so many different instances.

So basicly you would like to let kinships force a player to watch a instances before Joining it. NO THANK YOU. We already have youtube (And it free). If a player want to see the instance before going in. It would be there choice of seeing it. Not the kinship Choice

/Not Sign.

Besides. I think people would rather have there money spent on the game quests and new instance then Spectator mode.

It's an interesting concept, but it really could have an impact on the outcome. What is the impact of a 13th person, who wasn't involved in the combat but could sit back and watch for debuffs/dots/other events? You'd essentially have a coach, one who isn't responsible for any action in the game, but directing those who are.

I have to agree with the above poster, fraps the fight and post it online for the person to watch. Start it up at the same time and talk about what's going on, just like watching game films.

I like this idea...half the reason I never group is because I'm inexperienced and, as a tank class main, I dont want to be responsible for the group wiping because I dont know the instance. Getting to run through as a "ghost" would let me see it in real time, from whichever POV I wanted, unlike Youtube vids which dont let you move around as you like...that'd be far more valuable in learning an instance.

I dont think it necessarily could be abused, either. There are usually enough people in any given group instance that any mechanic that needs spotting, will be spotted by someone. Having a "coach" wouldnt provide much tangible benefit. I'd be more worried about having a "scout" that could safely go ahead without tripping aggro, but I'm unaware of anywhere in the game where scouting would provide you any benefit, either.

We all been there droid and each class has there own responsibility in a raid or fellowship But a good kinship or raid fellowship leader will explain what will happen in a raid or fellowship. If you dont know something about a class in a fellowship. Ask a someone who done the raid or fellowship and the same class. Or use the lotro class forums and ask. There are people who are willing to help.

Now there are programs outside of lotro that can be installed onto someone computer where everyone can watch that person play close to real time on lotro. I watch someone play on there Freep. Kill the same creep 2 twice same location. Right out side the Creep location. The creep was attacking Leaches. The hunter killed him twice. Then he killed another Creep. Then a warg killed him. It was funny.

I can see what button he was pushing. I could hear the battle I could even talk to the guy by useing Vent. So basicly I could ask questions What skill he was useing what was he trying to do. I could ask him to change views.

So the question is Why do we need this? When there a option to do this.

Originally Posted by Celt_Ainvar

We all been there droid and each class has there own responsibility in a raid or fellowship But a good kinship or raid fellowship leader will explain what will happen in a raid or fellowship. If you dont know something about a class in a fellowship. Ask a someone who done the raid or fellowship and the same class. Or use the lotro class forums and ask. There are people who are willing to help.

Now there are programs outside of lotro that can be installed onto someone computer where everyone can watch that person play close to real time on lotro. I watch someone play on there Freep. Kill the same creep 2 twice same location. Right out side the Creep location. The creep was attacking Leaches. The hunter killed him twice. Then he killed another Creep. Then a warg killed him. It was funny.

I can see what button he was pushing. I could hear the battle I could even talk to the guy by useing Vent. So basicly I could ask questions What skill he was useing what was he trying to do. I could ask him to change views.

So the question is Why do we need this? When there a option to do this.

Third party programs (outside LUA plugins) arent really a solution as they're a potential for trojans, and possibly breaking EULA depending on what they do. Walkthroughs and guides etc are a great place to start, but nothing is a substitute for seeing it run through, yourself, where you can control your own POV. I did all my "homework" on the instances I have tried to run in groups, but it still didnt prepare me fully, I didnt really "know" the instance until I had actually been through it live one time and screwed up a few times

I do what I can to prepare, but I found, when I first started making forays into grouping, that very few people are actually interested in showing people the ropes, and of those that are, even fewer are willing to do it with someone who doesnt have voice chat active. I got evicted from many GS groups, back in the day, before I found one that showed me the script for that instance.

I did my Frist Draigoch's raid today on my LM. I never watch the youtube video on how to do it. I never seen the place untel today. I had a great teacher. He explain what to do. Basicly he put a Mark on the main Tank and we follow him. We also did not have a full group. We only 10 toons total. three are newbies. Two LM and a gaurd. The LM died twice and champ died once. But we where able to heal them in mid. combat. The new Gaurd and my LM did not die. To remind you again we both are Brand new to Draigoch.

So droid you are making a mountain out of a mole hill and there is no substitute for practice.

That is the only way you can learn to play raid or fellowship is join them. Find a kinship that can help you.

But Putting a Spectator mode on lotro. The kinship's would abuse it and force spectator mode down on new players Throats. With quotes like well you have to watch us play the raid before you play the raid or fellowship.

So the question is Do we want Abuse on new players? Or can we deal with youtube?

One thing I've suggested periodically over the past 5 or 6 years has been adding Virtual Video Cameras inside online games. It would basically allow players to temporarily hook up to a data feed coming from a particular place in the game world, with their client rendering the data supplied from that feed (instead of from their normal data feed). It's also possible that such a data feed could be mobile (e.g. what amounts to a "helmet cam", see below).

Note: this obviously isn't a "video feed". It's a data feed. Just as the servers currently send us a constant stream of data for things like "the angry boar with model ID 1234 and texture ID 2376 ran from grid location x1, y1 to grid location x2, y2 in the last 0.3 seconds"... they'd send similar types of data for whatever the "camera" was looking at. Our clients would take all that and turn it into what seemed to be a live feed somewhere else in Middle-earth.

Such tech could be quite useful/fun for all sorts of stuff, from sharing remote events with friends too low level to participate to providing a hands-off camera for player events. How to explain it in this setting? Dream sequences, reflecting pools, Galadriel's mirror... something like that.

The other use for this tech would be for high-fidelity GM recordings. If a player is reported for bad behavior, the GM would in effect clone the data feed for the reported player (and perhaps the reporting player too!) so they could see in almost perfect in-game detail what was going on: chat, actions, everything. Then if the player who was infracted/banned appealed the decision, the GM could use a playback client to provide a full "movie" of everything that happened during that incident. Even attach it to an e-mail sent to the account holder. Sure, they can teleport to see for themselves, but this tech could allow them to multi-task much better, reviewing recordings once they had time.

Khafar

Originally Posted by Celt_Ainvar

But Putting a Spectator mode on lotro. The kinship's would abuse it and force spectator mode down on new players Throats. With quotes like well you have to watch us play the raid before you play the raid or fellowship.

So the question is Do we want Abuse on new players? Or can we deal with youtube?

You're mountaining some molehills yourself Kinship elitism will always exist, and the solution is to find a nicer kin. You cant talk about how you found great, helpful players to teach you, on the one hand, and then try to characterize people as draconian elitists to justify your argument. I dont think adding new tools, for those who want to use them, would ever be an overall negative to the game.

Well I am in 7 Kinship total. 6 On menedor and 1 on Vinya. Over the 5 years of playing. I meet a few Rude kinships that started out really nice then change over time. Mainly due to people who took over the kinship officer or Co. leader and they wanted to change it to there own views. Which some made the kinships better. But some made it so every one had to do it there way or the highway.

But looking at your 5 toons droid two are level 75 a hunter and a warden. You can scout out and find kinships that fit your needs and knowing you are a warden tank you can pritty much be a off tank untel you get your legs on playing a warden in a Raid or fellowship. You can also use your hunter to view how other warden tanks play in a raid. After the battle is won. Then ask that Warden questions ask what rotations they use. What class traits they use. Learn from them. Let them be your teachers.

Another idea is use Limlight group quests which can be done with 3 or 4 people. Have one person take aggro and try to take the aggro from them. I tend to annoy Tanks with my bear lol.

You need to learn from your own experience not spectator mode.