Thread: RvR

Originally Posted by Delmore

So sitting in line of a keep take is ideal? When I am doing a push on TR, I am going to make sure the resistance is taken care of. When you are sitting at V rock and I am pushing a blue keep, you become a liability. What is to say that when I make a pull you dont bum rush in behind us? It has happened before. So at that point, I am going to run over the 1v1 circle to avoid any additional freeps that are "not a part of the moors fights"

That is, without a doubt, a reasonable reason to break up 1v1 circles. After all, as per the game mechanics, once a player dies in the moors, they must spend days, if not weeks, leveling up their account again before partaking in any combat in the moors. It's not as if they could literally walk back to where they died in 30 seconds, but this time with a slightly stronger inclination to prevent the keep take. Yes. Clearly.

This is quite a good line of thought. Players who have gone out of their way to avoid any raid v raid action are nevertheless a threat to stop a keep take just from their presence. Those that 1v1 regularly could benefit from similar ideas. When a player that regularly raids approaches a 1v1 circle, whether it be on CM or in a random location, those in the circle would do well to take the precaution of killing the raider on sight. While in the previous example with the keep take, it was clearly best to break up the 1v1 circle despite them showing no interest in interfering, in this case, the raider has shown a proclivity in the past to zerging targets and fights. Rather than the near infinite patience and kindness shown by 1v1ers to raiders in the past despite being ganked by them consistently, with this logic, it would be far more pragmatic to simply gank raiders out of any 1v1 circles as a precaution.

With that said, tears about 1v1 circles usually come from those not in it. Most that partake in 1v1 circles are quite accustomed to dying and one more death makes no real difference. However, those that attempt to break up the circles, whether it be solo, in a group, or in a raid, generally aren't accustomed to fighting without overwhelming numbers on their side. As a result, they tend to shed a few tears while their fellow creeps or freeps stand by watching them get curb stomped by players who actually know how to play.

Originally Posted by cmal

Yes, it is important to destroy the pvp before you pve so that your pve is not interrupted by pvp.

In my opinion...It isn't PVE if there are freeps in it. At that point it becomes PVP in a keep.

Originally Posted by Kiddyfence

That is, without a doubt, a reasonable reason to break up 1v1 circles. After all, as per the game mechanics, once a player dies in the moors, they must spend days, if not weeks, leveling up their account again before partaking in any combat in the moors. It's not as if they could literally walk back to where they died in 30 seconds, but this time with a slightly stronger inclination to prevent the keep take. Yes. Clearly.

This is quite a good line of thought. Players who have gone out of their way to avoid any raid v raid action are nevertheless a threat to stop a keep take just from their presence. Those that 1v1 regularly could benefit from similar ideas. When a player that regularly raids approaches a 1v1 circle, whether it be on CM or in a random location, those in the circle would do well to take the precaution of killing the raider on sight. While in the previous example with the keep take, it was clearly best to break up the 1v1 circle despite them showing no interest in interfering, in this case, the raider has shown a proclivity in the past to zerging targets and fights. Rather than the near infinite patience and kindness shown by 1v1ers to raiders in the past despite being ganked by them consistently, with this logic, it would be far more pragmatic to simply gank raiders out of any 1v1 circles as a precaution.

With that said, tears about 1v1 circles usually come from those not in it. Most that partake in 1v1 circles are quite accustomed to dying and one more death makes no real difference. However, those that attempt to break up the circles, whether it be solo, in a group, or in a raid, generally aren't accustomed to fighting without overwhelming numbers on their side. As a result, they tend to shed a few tears while their fellow creeps or freeps stand by watching them get curb stomped by players who actually know how to play.

If I knew for a fact that the 1v1ers would stay in their circle...It may be a different story. But the 1 time I let them be and my raid walked by them...as soon as I pushed into the keep(that had a raid in it), the 1v1ers B-lined it for my rear line. Making my fight a 22 front and 10 behind dual front fight. So for assurance...I took out the 1v1 circle on the next push. I'd rather them come from the rez...If they decide to come back. It isn't 50 meters from my rear line and tactfully, having a group pushing into my defense line which is not at V-Rock and further north gives me more of an idea of where the freeps are.

So yeah...If you are going to be "out of the way" of the raid v raid...is being near both of the raids a good thing? probably not.

I made the suggestion to move it away from the traffic area. You guys thought it wasn't a good idea. The only other alternative is to realize that E is not and has never been a 1v1 server. It houses small groups, 1v1s, AND raids. The 1v1 servers are out there if you don't want to worry about the raids. Otherwise, you know the risks.

Play in a way that provides the most fun,
Fight who will fight and from the rest run,
Harvest the wheat; ignore the chaff,
And never discriminate against a good laugh.

Originally Posted by aklouie

The number of people who pure solo (and I mean they stay away from zergs, looking for 1v1's) I can count with both of my hands. Everyone else I have seen in groups/raids and... you know what... at that point i'm not going to deny my team infamy. You're going to die if you're not a pure solo'er.

No offence V, but what I'm taking from this is that if you have even seen a person in a group/raid, then you will have your group kill them.

Now, using me as an example, I enjoy 1v1s when I can get them, but I also enjoy RvR and small goup fights. So since I've been in a group/raid before, I should always be killed since I'm not a "pure solo'er"? Now, I don't care if my pixels fall over and my screen becomes unsaturated, but being killed since I've been in groups/raids is pretty lame imo.

Basically, my thinking is that if a person is out solo (unless they are well known as a zerg baby), then I'll try not to get them killed (calling them out or having my group zerg them on the rare occasion that I'm actually leading a group ><). Saying you only respect "pure solo'ers" means that you don't respect anyone since everyone has been in a group/raid at some point or other...

Boy that sure wasn't obvious like...4 years ago

Originally Posted by CorporateMannequins

There are 2 types of people in the moors, those who rely and numbers and those who rely on skill.

hmmmmm....I respect ur opinion here Bill, but I think this is a bit of an over simplification. people play in the moors for all kinds of reasons beyond these valid two.

on the general topic though, it's a shame that the community hasn't been able to come up with a solution that is respectful for all parties, but is a bit challenging in a completely open pvp zone. would be nice if Turbine had a solution, but that ain't gonna happen - they can't even get rid of the 5 year old wl bug or fix the top step in TA west side.

Frankly I don't have a problem with my 1v1s being interrupted or circles being wiped beyond the mild irritation of having to hunt down those same individuals again. It is far too easy to log out so there is no reason to let it get to me. As I said, my problem is with people coming up with excuses as to why they do it when the simple truth seems to be that they do it because they can.

I appreciate the argument that it is done in a method to ensure the successful take of a keep but I do not agree that taking keeps is essential to pvp. I have long maintained that I dislike most raids as they inevitably result in one group or the other sitting around and doing nothing. My play time is a bit limited and I don't want to spend that time sitting in a keep or rez circle or GV/Grams hill. I understand that sometimes you need to push a keep to get the opposing side to respond and I have often suggested as much in OOC on either side, but by constantly zerging people who have no interest in a RvR or PvE situation (I really don't care if a keep flips) you do nothing but encourage those individuals to zerg for their points or log out, both of which will decrease the active participants which decreases the value of a raid as far as I am concerned. Decide if you want to pve or pvp and don't try to change your story when people call you out on it.

I love that Yicky is able and willing to openly discuss this when realistically he doesn't need to. He leads raids so whether or not he zergs solos is his prerogative. There is very little respect in the game and even less on the forums and Yicky excels at providing in both situations as far as I am concerned.

Edit: It baffles me that the forums like to just mix up posts. Beta indeed.

Originally Posted by cmal

Edit: It baffles me that the forums like to just mix up posts. Beta indeed.

It's a vbull issue. Likely the servers were set to different times. It happens. Not exclusive to Turbine.



That said, I had a reply to this thread and it got eaten and the amount of care I have left to sum it up is:
I'm right, and all of you are wrong.

Just my two cents.

I love all kinds of fighting, small group (I mostly run duos), raiding, solo and appreciate each as a different style of play with different requirements. I often rock up to these 1v1 circles, get my stomped into the ground because WL DPS is so awesome that I have to let folks win, and then I carry on my merry way.

The problem I see is merely the location of these things. TR West/Three Humph/PTR are areas of high traffic usually, and where small group fights and raid fights often occur. I used to specifically have shuffles between the old hotspot and TR if the numbers were skewed, thus having a great big 1v1 circle in the middle makes it hard to have them. Can I move these? Probably, but the reality is that TR ramp is a lovable spot that both sides like to hug. Further, what happens if the fight shifts into the 1v1 circle? I'm honestly not going to know who was there, and who just ran into that area in an attempt to just get out of the fight. I'd probably kill everyone if I were leading.

CM may not be a fantastic spot for 1v1s, with the server lines, and terrain, but I really don't think that grassy TR area in between V Rock, TR West and 3 Hump is much better. If I map in TR West and see freeps, I'm not going to think 1v1 first, I'm thinking "you're going to die, tag, tag, tag, tag, cry, die". I don't really think anyone has problems with 1v1s, other than we need to find a better spot for them, that still allows the raid/small group fights to occur in the "main" area. Is there a specific reason why we can't push these up towards stupid rock/Anca rock? Or up towards GV from GG? Both are close to rezzes and map points. Just ideas, I don't see why all three styles of play can't fit in the moors without fighting over bits of the map, I know I generally avoid areas where there is a 1v1 circle if I can. IE. When folks used to fight up from GG, I'd go all around them, but never to that area with my rain - unless it was to randomly make shapes around them due to boredom).

(On a side note, I realise these circles are generally spontaneous, so shifting them may not be easily done without people communicating.)

I agree with you hell, the location pose a problem for people not knowing they are 1vs1 circles and then end up dying to gankers in the back ground and then the other side sees people getting attacked and all hell usually breaks loose. All forms of fighting in the moors are fun. Yet , I will say lotro pvmp was never designed for 1vs1 fighting.

Originally Posted by Zalexia

I agree with you hell, the location pose a problem for people not knowing they are 1vs1 circles and then end up dying to gankers in the back ground and then the other side sees people getting attacked and all hell usually breaks loose. All forms of fighting in the moors are fun. Yet , I will say lotro pvmp was never designed for 1vs1 fighting.

Has nothing to do with design in my opinion. It has to do with players not respecting each other and being mindless point zombies. For example, the glorious BAOS raid just zerged me twice while I was (not really) afk. I was not responding but simply watching. They don't care about the fight, they care about feeling like the big man because they got a little blue 2 above their head.

Originally Posted by Zalexia

I agree with you hell, the location pose a problem for people not knowing they are 1vs1 circles and then end up dying to gankers in the back ground and then the other side sees people getting attacked and all hell usually breaks loose. All forms of fighting in the moors are fun. Yet , I will say lotro pvmp was never designed for 1vs1 fighting.

And Lotro in general wasn't designed for PvP.

Originally Posted by cmal

Has nothing to do with design in my opinion. It has to do with players not respecting each other and being mindless point zombies. For example, the glorious BAOS raid just zerged me twice while I was (not really) afk. I was not responding but simply watching. They don't care about the fight, they care about feeling like the big man because they got a little blue 2 above their head.

I do apologize for that, it seems like the majority feeling in BAOS atm is to "kill all freeps" regardless of anything, "just in case"...

Originally Posted by Samus1111111

I do apologize for that, it seems like the majority feeling in BAOS atm is to "kill all freeps" regardless of anything, "just in case"...

Just "at the moment"?

Originally Posted by cmal

They don't care about the fight, they care about feeling like the big man because they got a little blue 2 above their head.

I spun around your circles hoping you'd fall over dizzy!

Either way, this game wasn't made for PvP, it has always been a side game, I was just suggesting that it isn't always as black and white as respect or zerg (depending on the player).

Still undefeated in Flayer

Or they're too lazy to pass up easy points (IE why they're in the raid in the first place)

Originally Posted by CandiceAurora

I spun around your circles hoping you'd fall over dizzy!

Either way, this game wasn't made for PvP, it has always been a side game, I was just suggesting that it isn't always as black and white as respect or zerg (depending on the player).

Heh, I did notice that! There was another WL that did the same, wish I could remember who it was.

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

Still undefeated in Flayer

Then why wouldn't you come back to fight?

Originally Posted by cmal

Heh, I did notice that! There was another WL that did the same, wish I could remember who it was.



Then why wouldn't you come back to fight?

Lol was funny seeing you and 2 champs just sitting in the middle of tr hs I was busy though so I left

Originally Posted by DaveChappelle

Lol was funny seeing you and 2 champs just sitting in the middle of tr hs I was busy though so I left

I was /emoting tales of heroism and PvMP philosophy to my worthy comrades Prasanna and Cmalberg.

here is a new video with some of the fights over the last couple weekends...

and a call out for the E moors as a whole.

I wanna see the rest of that GTA fight!

Don't blue balls me Yicky

Excellent video, loved the soundtrack... and the RvR, of course :P

That was sweet yicky! Keep that stuff coming.

Originally Posted by tkroll

That was sweet yicky! Keep that stuff coming.

Then come out more w/ freeps and let's have a fight that Yicky can fraps This was the fun Saturday night we had and we filled up both of his hard drives

Well done on the video. Keep up the great work.

Originally Posted by aklouie

Then come out more w/ freeps and let's have a fight that Yicky can fraps This was the fun Saturday night we had and we filled up both of his hard drives

will do at some point. I still remember the break the hamsters night man- there so many creeps charging over that hill.

Originally Posted by tkroll

will do at some point. I still remember the break the hamsters night man- there so many creeps charging over that hill.

tons of fun. I had over 200 gigs worth of fraps. still have more that I am working with

Originally Posted by Delmore

here is a new video with some of the fights over the last couple weekends...

and a call out for the E moors as a whole.

Awesome vid man. I love leading against yah.. honestly wish I could do it more.

Change your work time and get everyone to come out later.. just for me. Lol.
(Vent.. discuss :3 ).

Thanks for the raid action tonight Vyxe. The numbers were a little lopsided at times. It didn't look like the creeps were out in force that night. At largest my raid had 20-22 freeps, and there were some stragglers depending on when you hit. At the high point we had 2 level 75 minstrels, 1 74 minstrel, and 1 rk for healing. The 74 minstrel spent most of his time dead, but hey, his heals at the start were appreciated.

There was another kin group out (depending on the time of day) with Apex or Leaves of Lothlorien. We weren't coordinated, but we did cross paths.

-Syn

I want to thank all those who participated in today's fight at tr...or whatever that was.I had a lot of kills while camping the rez

Just a quick suggestion. While I am enjoying the raids, if you form a raid and you don't have any grouped up resistance (aka you're getting waaaaaaay more kills than creeps are), please disband and encourage small group action. Zerging isn't fun for the side getting zerged...

Also, farming keeps is never good (running through keeps repeatedly only killing creeps and not making any attempt to take the keep (aka attacking the tyrant))