Thread: level 85?

Would you guys have the level cap stay at 75 or move up to 85? I would have it at 75 because 1. I don't feel like grinding another 10 levels. 2. My alts will most most likely be abanded while trying to get the new armour, raiding, etc. And 3. at this rate to get to the end of the lotr storyline we wil be around level 150.

There are several threads about this already. Short answer, some people like it and some people don't.

Without advancement there is not much incentive to purchase new areas. If you don't like to grind or worry about abanded alts, stay where you are and when you have all your alts at 75 then can choose to move forward or not. I am looking forward to lvl 85.

Originally Posted by drummer500

Would you guys have the level cap stay at 75 or move up to 85? I would have it at 75 because 1. I don't feel like grinding another 10 levels. 2. My alts will most most likely be abanded while trying to get the new armour, raiding, etc. And 3. at this rate to get to the end of the lotr storyline we wil be around level 150.

The amount of XP rewarded from quests that generally tell a story is amazing. When did people consider leveling in LOTRO as "grinding"? If you really want to know what grinding is go play Asheron's Call. Now THAT'S grinding.

I used to play that game and Ultima Online. Let me tell you what grinding is. Quests did not exist in those games like they do now. If you wanted to level up your characters in those games you really had to go out and grind mobs all day long hoping to hit that next level. And the mobs in Asheron's Call were very tough! At launch Asheron's Call had a level cap of 120. That's 3,257,360,317 XP to go from 119 to 120. Of course they didn't stop at 120. The current level cap is 275. To go from 274 to 275 requires a whopping 191,226,310,247 XP. o _ o

It's a difficult thing to balance.

Some people love to level and thats pretty much the game for them, they dont focus on the end game, they level up to the cap, play that a little and then start on an alt.

Others spend a lot of time on the end-game and levelling is something they'd rather rush through as a means to an end, the latest/hardest raids.

I used to enjoy this game enough to do both, but I have realised that depended a lot on the replayability of the regions you level through, and alternative levelling paths. When the level cap was 60 I didnt mind revisiting Breeland, Forochel, Evendim, Angmar, Eregion. I enjoyed these places again after a month or two away from them.

Unfortunately I cannot ay the same about Mirkwood, Enedwaith and Dunland. Especially Enedwaith. I have 2 lvl65s standing at Echad Dagoras. I log in, take a look around and can't bring myself to questing there again.

On the other hand the new region, even without getting XP has been fun to do with my only lvl75.

In that context, I'm inclined to say I'd sooner welcome new questing regions to be 65 to 75 to provide alternative levelling paths to 75, with new end-game consisting of new lvl75 instances/raids.

It's less painful for a quester/leveller to level a new alt through a new lvl65-75 region than for an eng-gamer to have to take all his characters through 10 more levels again.

You can get close to pleasing both with new lvl65-75 regions and new lvl75 end-game

Originally Posted by 1DaVen

Without advancement there is not much incentive to purchase new areas. If you don't like to grind or worry about abanded alts, stay where you are and when you have all your alts at 75 then can choose to move forward or not. I am looking forward to lvl 85.

Out of interest, do you have several alts at lower levels? i.e. you enjoy questing for xp (so do I).

Wouldnt new lvl65-75 regions to quest in as an alternative to Enedwaith and Dunland be just as interesting if you have alts as a new lvl75-85 region would be for your lvl75 toon?

This would, at the same time, be more convenient for those who prefer end-game to levelling. I'm kind of a little of both things, so I can appreciate see both angles.

This game used to provide alternative paths to get to lvl50 and it all went out of the window with Moria unfortunately, and it has become even more linear after that. For me this coincided with progressive loss of interest in alts.

Originally Posted by Alex53

Out of interest, do you have several alts at lower levels? i.e. you enjoy questing for xp (so do I).

Wouldnt new lvl65-75 regions to quest in as an alternative to Enedwaith and Dunland be just as interesting if you have alts as a new lvl75-85 region would be for your lvl75 toon?

This would, at the same time, be more convenient for those who prefer end-game to levelling. I'm kind of a little of both things, so I can appreciate see both angles.

This game used to provide alternative paths to get to lvl50 and it all went out of the window with Moria unfortunately, and it has become even more linear after that. For me this coincided with progressive loss of interest in alts.

/signed. I'd rather see new leveling paths as well, rather than new end-game raids I will probably never see.

I understand how it is considered grinding when you have to do the same quests on your alt, that have already been completed on another character. So I ask: Why even have alts? Is there really nothing better to do than do the same quests over, and over again? Is lack of interest really the problem here? Of course the quests are going to be the same in the same area! Meh, maybe I just would enjoy new crafting tiers, better armor, better skills, and more stuff in general, and don't have to deal with the inconvenience of re-grinding alt characters... yet....

Lord I hope not, tired of leveling up all my alts, etc.

I think I'd prefer a five level boost, then a further five in the inevitable new region prior to the next expansion... The problem with that, is that it will feel less like a full expansion, and more like a new region you have to spend serious coin on...

Swings and roundabouts.

Lotro may probably reach level100 if turbine releases major updates such as helm's deep or gondor...

It's not even Helm's Deep or Gondor, look at the map. There is a ton of lands they haven't even touched yet. I personally would not mind playing this game for another 10+ years. It's fun, alot to do in any land you are in.

Originally Posted by drummer500

Would you guys have the level cap stay at 75 or move up to 85? I would have it at 75 because 1. I don't feel like grinding another 10 levels. 2. My alts will most most likely be abanded while trying to get the new armour, raiding, etc. And 3. at this rate to get to the end of the lotr storyline we wil be around level 150.

I could go either way. Of my 10 high-level characters, all but one are 75, and the 10th is getting there fast--he hit 73 yesterday.

Since I don't raid, I really don't have to worry about the "grind" for raid gear, just the grind to get enough cracked sigils to put the characters in crafted L75 gear.

With the cap going to 85 later this year, it will be a case of rinse-and-repeat. The only question will be, how many of those characters will I consider to be "ready" to move into the new area at launch? I would have no issues at all if RoR were delayed 6 to 12 months, but there are a lot of other people that would scream bloody murder at any hint of delay from Turbine.

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

I for one hope they do at least 10 levels. If it has no level increase then I wont be buying. Traditional questing is the main reason I play and without it there is no point. Stopping at 75 is totally arbitrary they may as well remove levels totally and put us back down to what we were like at the beginning of the game. Seems a waste of all the leveling so far.

Originally Posted by whheydt

I would have no issues at all if RoR were delayed 6 to 12 months, but there are a lot of other people that would scream bloody murder at any hint of delay from Turbine.

I'd rather wait and have it thoroughly tested than rushed and full of bugs.

Originally Posted by nazgul_badger

I for one hope they do at least 10 levels. If it has no level increase then I wont be buying. Traditional questing is the main reason I play and without it there is no point. Stopping at 75 is totally arbitrary they may as well remove levels totally and put us back down to what we were like at the beginning of the game. Seems a waste of all the leveling so far.

What is the difference between:

1/ Questing in a new 75-85 area to get XP to get another 10 levels while enjoying the content and the story. (While end-gamers who don't enjoy questing so much have to take several characters through that very same content, in a linear fashion because its the only 75-85 area)

and

2/ Questing in a new 65-75 area to further your character in other ways (rep/item xp/new items/deeds/titles) while enjoying the content and the story, plus you get a new alternative path to lvl75 for your alts to take, plus end-gamers with several lvl75 characters can pick and choose what content to do without a massive grind ahead of them until they can try the new end-game


Basically I think people get too hung up over levels and that XP bar. If you like questing and exploring for itself you can enjoy new areas and new quests without the level of your character having to change, especially in this game where there are several other areas of character progression.

So for me, the ideal expansion would be totally new lvl65 to 75 regions, fun to play on their own merits rather than just collecting XP, and new end-game instances + a raid.

At the current rate this game will make itself too daunting for any new player to start. On the other hand alternative levelling paths will keep people in the game for longer and more willing to roll alts.

Originally Posted by Alex53

What is the difference between:

1/ Questing in a new 75-85 area to get XP to get another 10 levels while enjoying the content and the story. (While end-gamers who don't enjoy questing so much have to take several characters through that very same content, in a linear fashion because its the only 75-85 area)

and

2/ Questing in a new 65-75 area to further your character in other ways (rep/item xp/new items/deeds/titles) while enjoying the content and the story, plus you get a new alternative path to lvl75 for your alts to take, plus end-gamers with several lvl75 characters can pick and choose what content to do without a massive grind ahead of them until they can try the new end-game


Basically I think people get too hung up over levels and that XP bar. If you like questing and exploring for itself you can enjoy new areas and new quests without the level of your character having to change, especially in this game where there are several other areas of character progression.

So for me, the ideal expansion would be totally new lvl65 to 75 regions, fun to play on their own merits rather than just collecting XP, and new end-game instances + a raid.

At the current rate this game will make itself too daunting for any new player to start. On the other hand alternative levelling paths will keep people in the game for longer and more willing to roll alts.

The problem with most of that list is all that will happen is the addition of instances as they are they easiest way of them controlling access to those things. Running the same instance more than once is extremely boring and has nothing to do with traditional RPG'S, it is purely an MMO conceit to "entertain" the masses with no "actual" content. Also they cant give items/ traits that are worth the effort getting for just questing/exploring because the hardcore raiders would QQ. So those of us that don't like the repeatedly running the same instance end up with nothing to do of value. At least leveling gives the idea that you are gaining things without giving quester's too much power ,particularly if leveling is tied to new skills. Also the three main reasons that people don't want those levels are legendary item; because they need to spend money, well turbine need money for their work and this type of thing is the easiest way to get it. Instances become obsolete ; this can be solved by scaling. Early game instances were obsolete ages ago where do you draw the line. The whole we want Isengard to remain relevant is very arbitrary, what about the Great Barrow or Garth Agarwen??. Gear becomes obsolete, this is a nonsense argument, they will add instances (at least eventually and probably with release) , that will by their existence make existing gear obsolete even without levels , otherwise there would be no point running them.

I also do not personally like "fluff" titles in real terms there is no gaming benefit for having them they are just words. Turbine could give us a billion meaningless titles with little effort.

I would be pro factions if they were genuinely "new and interesting" and made sense and gave rewards worth having,unfortunately that will not happen.


But hey just my view.

Originally Posted by nazgul_badger

Also they cant give items/ traits that are worth the effort getting for just questing/exploring because the hardcore raiders would QQ.

This one little thing : really? I mean, I recall QQ about obligatory Moria epic if you wanted capstone. But it was not QQ about "it's just questing/exploration" - moaning was about something opposite.

Turbine has a record of gating traits/skills/legendaries behind questing/mob drops/epic storyline, so it's not like we are talking flying pigs here. The sad answer is, gating behind otherwise worthless levels is:
- cheaper
- easier to implement
- reducing effort to the lowest common denominator (everyone and their donkey can gain levels as long as they buy & play new content unless someone wishes only to eg. craft)
- have I mentioned cheaper?

...than inventing entire story arc or interesting mechanics to acquire such upgrades.

So... that's the story behind level cap. I mean including $$$ incentives for Turbine you already described. And that's also the issue - where can we draw the line in terms of sacrificing quality over homogenised upgrades? Because that line about obsolete instances is quite simple: how about "here"? Or "as soon as possible"?

Unless we somehow enjoy waiting for RoR instance cluster (RoI anyone?) while feeding on skirmishes and seeing old stuff revamped at glacial, fornost-ish pace. Sure, I know, you (general, not personal) spent years grinding those instances and are bored with them. Newsflash: nobody forces you to play scaled content, feel free to spend months in eg. the only new 6-man (U5) or in the only bugraid (RoI). Newsflash #2: there are players who are not bored *yet*. Newsflash #3 - rich content not mired by "-30 levels from cap" is rather good sign for fresh players or those looking for new game.

Originally Posted by Ferthcott

This one little thing : really? I mean, I recall QQ about obligatory Moria epic if you wanted capstone. But it was not QQ about "it's just questing/exploration" - moaning was about something opposite.

Turbine has a record of gating traits/skills/legendaries behind questing/mob drops/epic storyline, so it's not like we are talking flying pigs here. The sad answer is, gating behind otherwise worthless levels is:
- cheaper
- easier to implement
- reducing effort to the lowest common denominator (everyone and their donkey can gain levels as long as they buy & play new content unless someone wishes only to eg. craft)
- have I mentioned cheaper?

...than inventing entire story arc or interesting mechanics to acquire such upgrades.

So... that's the story behind level cap. I mean including $$$ incentives for Turbine you already described. And that's also the issue - where can we draw the line in terms of sacrificing quality over homogenised upgrades? Because that line about obsolete instances is quite simple: how about "here"? Or "as soon as possible"?

Unless we somehow enjoy waiting for RoR instance cluster (RoI anyone?) while feeding on skirmishes and seeing old stuff revamped at glacial, fornost-ish pace. Sure, I know, you (general, not personal) spent years grinding those instances and are bored with them. Newsflash: nobody forces you to play scaled content, feel free to spend months in eg. the only new 6-man (U5) or in the only bugraid (RoI). Newsflash #2: there are players who are not bored *yet*. Newsflash #3 - rich content not mired by "-30 levels from cap" is rather good sign for fresh players or those looking for new game.

It still remains that stopping now is arbitrary and I for one will feel cheated. Why end at level 75 , why not 65 or 45 or 5 or 1, they may as well lower all our levels to 1 it makes as much sense. People seem to not like questing, not liking questing is far more odd than not liking instances/crafting etc. Questing has been part of RPG'S since the days of D&D 1ST edition i don't remember killing the same bosses repeatedly in those days.

Anyway its all a meaningless debate. Whatever happens some people are going to be disappointed.

There are other ways to prevent instances from going obsolete than stopping cap upgrade or "ninjadeleveling" everyone - scaling them a "bit" faster than this weird speed of xpack/cap raise for example.

And there are no absolutes either - smaller, meanigful, complex cap upgrades =/= destroying leveling altogether.

Also, not exactly on the main topic - more like a principle: if something is recognised as harmful, stopping/reducing it at any moment is still better than pondering whether there is a point considering it's been going on for years and eventually refusing to do anything.

Originally Posted by nazgul_badger

People seem to not like questing, not liking questing is far more odd than not liking instances/crafting etc. Questing has been part of RPG'S since the days of D&D 1ST edition i don't remember killing the same bosses repeatedly in those days.

And that's basically a reason no one should be worried about QQ you mentioned, even though I am still not convinced class quests, Moria capstones or legendary pages were equal to "lootbox WSotEK" both in QQ terms and in own silliness.

Originally Posted by nazgul_badger

It still remains that stopping now is arbitrary and I for one will feel cheated. Why end at level 75 , why not 65 or 45 or 5 or 1, they may as well lower all our levels to 1 it makes as much sense. People seem to not like questing, not liking questing is far more odd than not liking instances/crafting etc. Questing has been part of RPG'S since the days of D&D 1ST edition i don't remember killing the same bosses repeatedly in those days.

Anyway its all a meaningless debate. Whatever happens some people are going to be disappointed.

THANKS!!
It's totally true that there will always be disappointed people.Some love raids(i don't know why) some love grinding dungeons and some love quests.And maybe the Roleplayers don't care about all of the 3 that much.
But i have to say some people can say it's their own fault when they are tired of questing and instances.If i would play 5 or 6 alts in the same level region i'd be tired too^^
I think it's ok to have a new level cap and maybe there will be a way to keep the LI's from getting useless.We'll see...

The discussion is moot, really, since we know from the lottery schedule that the level cap is being raised to 85 this fall. Lottery of the Rohirrim is for 76 to 85.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...pdate-2-3-2012

Some new Levels are always welcome to me.But I hope its not getting higher than level 100.100 should be the maximum imo

Originally Posted by DisposableHERO

The discussion is moot, really, since we know from the lottery schedule that the level cap is being raised to 85 this fall. Lottery of the Rohirrim is for 76 to 85.

http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...pdate-2-3-2012

Level cap raise has also been announced many times, though it's always good to see another official source. Thanks for the link.

If Turbine where to drop the level cap raise now, more people would be upset than would be happy about it. I still wouldn't mind seeing a way to temporarily halt XP gain.

I have to agree that many players like to feel like they are progressing, me included. The easiest way for this it to raise the level cap. However, if we had some other way to progress, even some sort of lateral progression, I would be OK without a level cap increase. If the Legendary Items turned out the way I first pictured them, this would have been a great way to show some sort of progression. Instead we have disposable 1st ages with every level increase and Starlight crystals? Skirmish Soldiers seemed to be a good, alternate source, but as the same skirmish marks are used for so many things in addition to skirmish soldier leveling, it just seems so grindy. I'm looking forward to our upcoming War Steads and see what kind of progression tracks they will have.

The one other thing I could see instead of a level cap is an update to our trait lines. Maybe some sort of legendary trait skill tree, or points that we can use to increase some our traits, instead of the "improved trait" so called skills we have been getting with the more recent xpacs.

Anyway, just my disjointed thoughts on this, maybe someone more organized has some good ideas.