Thread: Role of Guardian in the Moors?

Do Guardians still tank in the moors? How exactly would tanking and aggro work, since creeps are real people who can choose who they attack?

You can tank enemy keep bosses and whatnot to take control, but actual PvP you are pretty worthless, even in OP.

What I usually do is Shieldwall the healer or the hunter, whichever the enemy players are going for.

In the past there was a time when guardians were to be feared when in OP in the moors. People complained, and the guard damage was nerfed, making the guard a nuisance, but not worth focusing on until the end of the battle, when all the others were dead. Then came audacity. Now creeps can build up the audacity, making the guard pretty much irrelevant except as a meatshield (shield wall). Some guards will S&B to try interrupting the creep healers using the block chain interrupts, plus getting the kick skill to a 15s cooldown using the trait and legacy combo. So yeah, that's about it. I've given up on my guard in the moors for now, since audacity came out making us practically worthless. My other guard buddy I used to moors with has not even been in the game much since audacity. Look on the stats sites and you will find guard is definitely the least played class in the moors.

Unless you are in a raid/fellowship tank mode is pretty much useless and in a raid/fellowship it will just turn you into an extra morale pool for a healer or dps class. I find it extremely boring Shield-wall'ing people so I run around in OP 99,8% of the time, it isn't God Mode any more but I like that since now I get a few more fights when running around solo.

You are not going to 2 shot anyone but if you like fighting instead of rank and renown the Guardian is fun to play, at least I think so

Originally Posted by Gattsu_EU

Unless you are in a raid/fellowship tank mode is pretty much useless and in a raid/fellowship it will just turn you into an extra morale pool for a healer or dps class. I find it extremely boring Shield-wall'ing people so I run around in OP 99,8% of the time, it isn't God Mode any more but I like that since now I get a few more fights when running around solo.

You are not going to 2 shot anyone but if you like fighting instead of rank and renown the Guardian is fun to play, at least I think so

I fully agree. You don't get the high DPS that some other freep classes have, but with a little focus on Might and Crit rating a Guardian can still dish out some serious damage. Due to your mitigations you can also stand your ground against multiple creeps (possible getting kills in before you go down), as long as there is no healer involved on the other side. It's just not the easymode play some other classes 'enjoy' (however it is not too difficult either).

In raids I hardly ever shieldwall because it's boring and up till now that was always perfectly acceptable in the raids that I have been in.

You can Raid leading pretty well because no one will target you and if they do they waste a lot of dps as you can equip shield and resist a lot.

That's mean that you're generally the last one that die giving you the possibility to lead until the end and be a good RAT for the raid.

Guard do better in small group of freps when you can lead a charge, slow down targets and SW soft friend.

Originally Posted by Chestman

Then came audacity. Now creeps can build up the audacity, making the guard pretty much irrelevant except as a meatshield (shield wall).

If a creep has 7 audacity and you have 7 audacity as well then your Might is certainly going to take a significant hit. Either you wear more jewellery focused heavily on Might, and/or you increase your critical hit chance. While Might is important, the latter is better as that is likely where the majority of your damage dealt to the creep will come from.

Sting may not have a crit legacy but it seems to crit a lot for me. Stagger and Overwhelm both have crit legacies and will crit often. To the King is another skill that crits often for me but is a bit slower, although not nearly as slow as Brutal Assault.

My attack rotation is usually Ward -> Stagger -> Sting.

If I have not received a Parry event yet I will Force Opening and then;
Retaliation -> Thrust -> Salt the Wound -> TtK

Subsequent parry events are Retaliation -> Overwhelm -> TtK

I'll try to get in Brutal Assault when I do not have a Parry event and when Force Opening is on cooldown.

I try to keep Ward up and the Stagger debuff on my target, usually as part of a repeat spam rotation of my first Ward -> Stagger -> Sting.

ok i run 21% finisse 20% cit 500 agility on my guard..pop warriorsheart and a consuble and bamm 25% crit rating /about/ that hits them damm hard lol. sometimes ill get a string of 1 to 2k hits in a row. I pop pledge early tho as im squishy as heck. Still having issues with WL and defilers tho hard to cut through that much healing.. want some fun grab a hunter hide in the bushes and use shield wall ..lol wargs fall or that ever time. sure guards are in a tough spot out there esp compared to wardens..we just dont have a lot of pvp skills..i do notice a huge lack in guards tho now lol.

Sad to read my expectations for guards seem to have been accurate post updates...guess I will stay away a bit longer.

Interesting you brought this up Dreamtheatre42, I came back recently from a long break, and, as I always do after long breaks, I tried out tanking in the Moors.
None of my stuff is truly end-game yet (which is freaking fine with me, I hate the grind) but I've mostly found, like everyone has been saying, that tanking (especially solo tanking, 1v1 fights of any kind) are really, really lame right now.
I like a ridiculous challenge, so on top of traiting every single thing I could to focus on the best possible defence set-up I tried the following:
Reactive Blocks,
Traited Warrior's Heart,
15s Catch a Breath skill, or whatever it's called,
Shield damage legacies,
Highest BPE and morale I could.
Several other slight tweaks, but the point is that I traited for survivability (rather than aggro) with the best damage output possible (outside of the OP stance).
I am currently trying to get the lvl 88 armour which gives Catch a Breath the ability to remove all slows and give a temporary +15% run speed. This should help a LOT in fights, especially where creeps employ Bleed 'n' Kite, and Turn 'n' Burn tactics.

It's still fairly hard to handle how little damage I do while in tank-mode, and most of the time I simply have a much longer time to watch the other freeps die before the creeps come for me, but it's really quite an interesting experiment.

And, of course, I can always retrait for OP and go face-melt a few creeps for kicks.

Sorry about the length!

um, no, your not going to "face melt" any creeps other then very low rank ones or ones with no aud.

You can trait/gear 2k might, and your still not going to hit harder then a champ, who has better survival skills out there then we do.
Bubbles ftw.
We do not have 70% mits when in OP stance and ,even if we did, we have no heals to deal with the damage we take.
And its going to be rare that a guard is at 70% tac mits self buffed anyway.
I can just barely do it myself, and that's with a scroll and ward up, because common damage isn't so common in the moors, its all about tac mits out there, as most creeps will be doing fire/shadow/acid damage.

Sword and board is a waste of time, as we just can't hit hard enough to kill anything, sure we take longer to die, but we are going to die.
No slowing ability makes S/B useless on top of little dps.

Not getting any real attention to our class as other classes get buffs, means that over time we fall behind.

Even worse for sword and board, less and less can even be bpe'd. I'm particularly thinking about the warg changes (stances) as shadow stance wargs have many of their skills as if from stealth (ignoring bpe) and flayer stance wargs will be taking advantage of their root preventing the target from moving or bpe'ing, not to mention the degrees of finesse and debuffs out there now. So, play a guard in sword and board and be reliant on reactives that you're not going to get pvp'ing, only pve'ing, or build OP and switch a shield on and maybe some jewelry for some specific uses like shield walling or offtanking adds.

That OP stance just isn't on par is hurting us, but we have a niche still, just not a big one.

Originally Posted by AS1476

um, no, your not going to "face melt" any creeps other then very low rank ones or ones with no aud.

You can trait/gear 2k might, and your still not going to hit harder then a champ, who has better survival skills out there then we do.
Bubbles ftw.
We do not have 70% mits when in OP stance and ,even if we did, we have no heals to deal with the damage we take.
And its going to be rare that a guard is at 70% tac mits self buffed anyway.
I can just barely do it myself, and that's with a scroll and ward up, because common damage isn't so common in the moors, its all about tac mits out there, as most creeps will be doing fire/shadow/acid damage.

Sword and board is a waste of time, as we just can't hit hard enough to kill anything, sure we take longer to die, but we are going to die.
No slowing ability makes S/B useless on top of little dps.

Not getting any real attention to our class as other classes get buffs, means that over time we fall behind.

Looks like somebody skipped bacon and eggs and went for sadness ham today.

Show me the champ that, similarly geared, has more survivability than a guardian. I mean really, unless he's full on tank-traited with a shield or whatever and maybe a pocket healer, there is NO WAY a champ is able to survive more than a guardian. Bubbles are nothing more than more morale, mits and BPE ftw.

On a more constructive and less vague note, the Block stance affects attacking mobs/creeps with a slow effect if they don't continue attacking, Challenge slows as many targets as you have it traited for if they don't continue attacking you, and Engage, while ######, counts as a slow.

I 1v1d a rank 12 reaver today and won. Sure, reavers are weak these days, and sure, he wasn't trying his hardest, but score one for tanks, I'd say.
Cheers.

Originally Posted by forestthegreat

Looks like somebody skipped bacon and eggs and went for sadness ham today.

Show me the champ that, similarly geared, has more survivability than a guardian. I mean really, unless he's full on tank-traited with a shield or whatever and maybe a pocket healer, there is NO WAY a champ is able to survive more than a guardian. Bubbles are nothing more than more morale, mits and BPE ftw.

On a more constructive and less vague note, the Block stance affects attacking mobs/creeps with a slow effect if they don't continue attacking, Challenge slows as many targets as you have it traited for if they don't continue attacking you, and Engage, while ######, counts as a slow.

I 1v1d a rank 12 reaver today and won. Sure, reavers are weak these days, and sure, he wasn't trying his hardest, but score one for tanks, I'd say.
Cheers.

You haven't been in the moors for a while I think.
Champs have become very strong and yes they are more survivable then guards these days.
Glory FTW.

I play with a champ nearly everyday that is more survivable then me, I wear 6 pieces of Aud gear, and he does too, so we both have 7 aud.
I run around at about 12k-12.5k morale, he is around 9.5k-10k.
They have a stronger slow, they can bubble, which in glory is a nice big one, they have a heal that they can use when the cd is up, that is an attack, we have to be S/B to get our 500 (CaB) point heal to go off.
Force opening is unreliable in its ability to crit (I'm around 18% crit) to grant a block event to use CaB.
And so many other things that they can do to self buff them selves.
And they can do these things with out having to wear "special gear".
Sure a guard can get 3k out of WF, but we have to swap gear, which means the class is lacking, its not a class thing, its a gear thing.
Same with the lvl 60/65 heal proc gear.
It can help, but its "special gear" to make us "work".

Challenge is a slow if they don't attack you, but its a short duration, and does nothing if they are attacking you.
Engage is also a slow, which slows you.
So the creep slows you for 25%, and you slow them for 25%, then 10% on top, so no, it doesn't help you.
And if it is a 40% or more slow, which many a creep can do, engage just makes it worse for you.

As far as block stance goes with its slow, it just doesn't do anything.
Sure it slows a few creeps for 6 seconds, but only after a timer counts down to check to see if they are hitting you or not, and the slow is not a permanent slow, it ticks down, then you have to have it start over, with a grace period again.
If your traiting challenge in the moors , or using a challenge legacy, for more targets for a slow, well, I say your doing it wrong.

Forrest you are exactly what is wrong with so many Guards that think we are fine and really have no clue. ANY similarly geared Champ has more survivability than we do. PLease try to learn a little about what you are talking about before you try to brag about how OP we are. I dont know how many times guards like you have your hand held while experienced Guards try to explain it is NOT just about mitigations when you discuss how to survive both in PvE and PvP. Taking less damage is 1/2 the issue. It is about both taking and giving damage. If I take 1/5 the damage you do, but you do 5x the damage I do, who will likely be more effective in the moors? Do you fight SnB in moors? I bet the creeps are happy to see you. Champs have the mits from heavy armor we have minus a shield. They have an off hand weapon that provides extra stats to increase dps. Their sprint is longer, they have bubbles that provide the difference in moral we have without a shield and they have skills that can remove many of the debuffs creeps can place on you and no matter what you think, our dps compared to theirs is a joke. To get to the kind of dps that matters at all for the moors, Guards must reduce our mits and moral to where we are just cheap knockoffs of Champs. Please go to the Creep forums and see what they have to say about what classes are OP and you will NOT see guards on that list. If a creep starts to lose, and is not constrained by some arbitrary set of 1v1 rules, all he has to do is run before he gets to a place where a lucky set of crits from us will take him out and you will never win. We just dont have the dps to compete with a Champ. Sadly, our best role for moors is as a meat shield for classes that really contribute, or running in and pulling outposts to allow the raid to get to creeps hiding inside.

Originally Posted by Djasi

Forrest you are exactly what is wrong with so many Guards that think we are fine and really have no clue. ANY similarly geared Champ has more survivability than we do. PLease try to learn a little about what you are talking about before you try to brag about how OP we are. I dont know how many times guards like you have your hand held while experienced Guards try to explain it is NOT just about mitigations when you discuss how to survive both in PvE and PvP. Taking less damage is 1/2 the issue. It is about both taking and giving damage. If I take 1/5 the damage you do, but you do 5x the damage I do, who will likely be more effective in the moors? Do you fight SnB in moors? I bet the creeps are happy to see you. Champs have the mits from heavy armor we have minus a shield. They have an off hand weapon that provides extra stats to increase dps. Their sprint is longer, they have bubbles that provide the difference in moral we have without a shield and they have skills that can remove many of the debuffs creeps can place on you and no matter what you think, our dps compared to theirs is a joke. To get to the kind of dps that matters at all for the moors, Guards must reduce our mits and moral to where we are just cheap knockoffs of Champs. Please go to the Creep forums and see what they have to say about what classes are OP and you will NOT see guards on that list. If a creep starts to lose, and is not constrained by some arbitrary set of 1v1 rules, all he has to do is run before he gets to a place where a lucky set of crits from us will take him out and you will never win. We just dont have the dps to compete with a Champ. Sadly, our best role for moors is as a meat shield for classes that really contribute, or running in and pulling outposts to allow the raid to get to creeps hiding inside.

Seems to be a fairly sensitive issue around here, this whole question of where guardians should be as compared to where they are.

Ashendoon had some good points. I feel compelled to agree with him. The inherent awkwardness of the OP stance (which, to be fair, was never more than a compromise, from its first introduction) with its ridiculous power consumption and extreme loss of defense has never been all that desirable. It is a depressing fact that what we do best as guardians (obviously, tank things) simply does not work very well in most PvMP situations.

I switched out my 1-hand for a 2-hand last night and had the most fun I've had since I first started trying SnB in the 'Moors.

I guess I'd have to conclude that although I do stand by that guardians can take more heat than champions in PvMP, it is a depressing and difficult thing to trait for defense and be even somewhat effective (outside of raiding maybe, and the occasional reaver 1v1).

But as for you Djasi, why don't you lessen your animosity there. From the sound of it, even claiming that guardians are sturdier than champs pisses you off. Perhaps you should move to the Champ forum? It might help with your champ phallic-envy. Later everyone, I'm gonna go kill creeps.

Originally Posted by AS1476

You haven't been in the moors for a while I think.
Champs have become very strong and yes they are more survivable then guards these days.
Glory FTW.

I play with a champ nearly everyday that is more survivable then me, I wear 6 pieces of Aud gear, and he does too, so we both have 7 aud.
I run around at about 12k-12.5k morale, he is around 9.5k-10k.
They have a stronger slow, they can bubble, which in glory is a nice big one, they have a heal that they can use when the cd is up, that is an attack, we have to be S/B to get our 500 (CaB) point heal to go off.
Force opening is unreliable in its ability to crit (I'm around 18% crit) to grant a block event to use CaB.
And so many other things that they can do to self buff them selves.
And they can do these things with out having to wear "special gear".
Sure a guard can get 3k out of WF, but we have to swap gear, which means the class is lacking, its not a class thing, its a gear thing.
Same with the lvl 60/65 heal proc gear.
It can help, but its "special gear" to make us "work".

Challenge is a slow if they don't attack you, but its a short duration, and does nothing if they are attacking you.
Engage is also a slow, which slows you.
So the creep slows you for 25%, and you slow them for 25%, then 10% on top, so no, it doesn't help you.
And if it is a 40% or more slow, which many a creep can do, engage just makes it worse for you.

As far as block stance goes with its slow, it just doesn't do anything.
Sure it slows a few creeps for 6 seconds, but only after a timer counts down to check to see if they are hitting you or not, and the slow is not a permanent slow, it ticks down, then you have to have it start over, with a grace period again.
If your traiting challenge in the moors , or using a challenge legacy, for more targets for a slow, well, I say your doing it wrong.

Exactly as I figured it would be...sorry it stinks out there Ash...

As for pontificating ideologues who remain convinced they know more than people who play a class more extensively and who post patient explanations of things ...I am also glad I have steered clear of the forums these months...senseless aggravation contending with people of outsized ego and unwarranted arrogance.

Guardians are in an amazing spot right now. We can 1v1 just about any creep class (barring Defiler's R15 power-drain flies) and come out alive. I wouldn't mind a bit more consistency/increase in my DPS though.

I do just fine on my guardian, in fact it's my most favourite class I've ever played.



*pro-tip - Build for OP, use -attack duration runes, build for crit, tac mit and /profit.

Can you post your setup pls as if you win vs every creep barring R15 Def you're my personal hero and the master of all guardians in the world.

Pls pls pls pls!

Originally Posted by Arlecchino79

Can you post your setup pls as if you win vs every creep barring R15 Def you're my personal hero and the master of all guardians in the world.

Pls pls pls pls!

Would you like my autograph?

Originally Posted by Arlecchino79

Can you post your setup pls as if you win vs every creep barring R15 Def you're my personal hero and the master of all guardians in the world.

Pls pls pls pls!

Surprisingly...he declined!

OP guard is kinda awkward, because I think it puts the guard into the complete opposite situation than what he typically does.
Here's my own take on Guard PvP (feel free to ignore where necessary )


My suggestion is to think of yourself as a debuffer. Whenever I join a moors raid I deal out some serious damage, but all of that comes as debuff. Rather than stand out in front letting everything know you're there, the OP guard needs to hide in the shadow of the chaos.


1. Stagger is your friend: Short cooldown, ridiculous debuff. Trait it for 25s + crit chance and watch creeps just disintegrate.

2. Charge is your friend: PvE environments guards tend to pop charge at the beginning of fights to grab everything and the 10% dmg boost is a bonus. PvP the charge needs to be used a) to negate the spider web (don't run in there again plz) and b) to put the stagger slow on the farthest retreating creeps to ensure a full wipe.

3. Debuff everything: Don't just focus on burning down one creep. You're a debuff class now, not a dps. Tab through everything and see if they have a stagger debuff. Recognize the symbol, and if they don't have it get behind them (easy since they don't target you) and put a stagger on.

4. Prioritize targets: Stagger is most effective on wargs, then go for the reavers, then go for anything else that is in the fray.

5. Find those stragglers: Creeps will sometimes get away from the action to get out of combat for some skills that must be out of combat. Find those creeps and do an auto-attack (ward/sting/stagger if behind) to annoy them.

6. Stagger: Did I mention you'll be staggering a lot? The 5-set moors bonus is really nice, gives you really good freedom of movement.


Finally, build a rep about survival for yourself. Man-heal, dwarf-endurance, deep breath, pledge, charge - these abilities are there to be used. Don't be afraid to use them - creeps will start to realize you are hard to kill, you learn how to use these abilities when they are really needed, and you'll find yourself targetted less often in group play (that's where most of the fun and commendations are anyways )

New consumable from the devs: Staggerring Frontal Assault...a skunk-like attack of great devastation emitted by guardian for 30s duration -- allows a guard to passively "spray" enemies with their "heavy armor crotch rot stench"...360 degree AoE, applies standard stagger effects to up to 7 targets in a 10m range.

Originally Posted by Zhengzhe

*snip*
6. Stagger: Did I mention you'll be staggering a lot? The 5-set moors bonus is really nice, gives you really good freedom of movement.
*snip*

The snips; whilst of some merit, are mostly pointless as a post. The vast majority viewing this thread have an idea of the play of guard in the moors I suspect. And more of an idea in most cases.

The 5-set bonus effecting stagger is a bad crutch, as it does not apply the AD debuff (only the slow) and stagger used from the front loses the potential 27% (15% base + 12% belt legacy) positional damage the skill has. I far prefer using 4 of that set (sovereign blade) and the shoulders and boots of the fearless set for tact mit on each and its 2/5 bonus. I do of course carry a 5th SB piece to equip for if I'm desperate to get a slow on their front (never used it yet).

As for the comparison to champ in the moors, glory champs are ridiculous as people have pointed out, and fervour champs have near the same mitigation (only stoic and a shield being the potential differences), better timers (bubbles are better than pledge because so much creep damage goes straight through pledge now) and all-importantly; spike damage. Champ damage output is gated by fervour pips and this means that in moors (where you're in combat a lot of the time despite not directly attacking) they're generating their resource whilst out of harms-way a lot, only to get into range and use this resource for spike damage that guard has nothing remotely close to. It all adds up to being hugely more potent than a guard built similarly.

Our one and only niche is mobility, and it's largely in sustained combat. We can get from one target in a melee to another quickly because of legacied skills range, quickness trait (5% run speed), coffee (10% run speec for crit, others can of course use this) and ttk run speed buff stacking on top. Otherwise we're a shield wall or a toon that other classes can do everything we can do, and do them better.

Originally Posted by Grusk

The snips; whilst of some merit, are mostly pointless as a post. The vast majority viewing this thread have an idea of the play of guard in the moors I suspect. And more of an idea in most cases.

The 5-set bonus effecting stagger is a bad crutch, as it does not apply the AD debuff (only the slow) and stagger used from the front loses the potential 27% (15% base + 12% belt legacy) positional damage the skill has. I far prefer using 4 of that set (sovereign blade) and the shoulders and boots of the fearless set for tact mit on each and its 2/5 bonus. I do of course carry a 5th SB piece to equip for if I'm desperate to get a slow on their front (never used it yet).
?
As for the comparison to champ in the moors, glory champs are ridiculous as people have pointed out, and fervour champs have near the same mitigation (only stoic and a shield being the potential differences), better timers (bubbles are better than pledge because so much creep damage goes straight through pledge now) and all-importantly; spike damage. Champ damage output is gated by fervour pips and this means that in moors (where you're in combat a lot of the time despite not directly attacking) they're generating their resource whilst out of harms-way a lot, only to get into range and use this resource for spike damage that guard has nothing remotely close to. It all adds up to being hugely more potent than a guard built similarly.

Our one and only niche is mobility, and it's largely in sustained combat. We can get from one target in a melee to another quickly becaulegacied skills range, quickness trait (5% run speed), coffee (10% run speec for crit, others can of course use this) and ttk run speed buff stacking on top. Otherwise we're a shield wall or a toon that other classes can do everything we can do, and do them better.

Thank you for being another "old timer" that is "known" to me, and confirming what I have concluded would be an unenjoyable play experience for me...disappointing as that is...it saves me the greater disappointment of breaking my boycott just to have my frustration at the devs reinvigorated.

Disclaimer: This post is designed to share my thoughts regarding how best to play Guard in the moors. This post is not meant to argue whether or not the Guard is the “best” or “worse” toon to play in the moors.

Discussion: That said, I have only played a Guard in the moors and have enjoyed it immensely. Presently I believe that I am realistically able to compete with any Creep 1 v. 1 at, or near, my Rank of 8 (my renown presently is 201,650 and my rating is 1446). If I didn’t win more than I lose, believe me, I wouldn’t be playing Guard in the moors! I am not a masochist!

So, as a beginning, I analyzed the three best Guards on my server (Landroval). Each has over 1 million renown and is Rank 12. All three of these players primarily use the OP stance. Using a website that analyzes player stats as compared to the average LOTRO Guard (whom we can assume is spec’ed as a S&B Tank) I found that these three R12 Guard players had 1) almost twice as much Might, 2) significantly more Agility, 3) almost twice as much to 2x as much Critical Hit, 4) significantly more Finesse and Parry, and 5) significantly less (zero) Block as compared to the average Guard. Interesting.

My stats are now comparable. More specifically, my stats are as follows: (I will post these in a follow-up this weekend, presently I’m out of town at a conference and don’t have access to my toon.)

Of course this build is a result of a synergy of all the factors at our disposal—virtues, class and legendary traits, audacity, food, scrolls, jewelry, weapon, belt, etc. Now, I could, in detail, discuss my complete style of building and fighting but this would take too much space. However, I would like to discuss, briefly, the issue of Guard DPS. I have thought long & hard about how to maximize DPS in my Guard. In part, the following is my present answer.

Practically speaking, when fighting Creeps in the moors I first use 1) Brutal Assault, then 2) Guardian’s Ward, then 3) Improved Sting, then 4) Stagger, and then 5) repeat. (In fact, the above statement is not quite accurate. I do use, based upon Cool Downs and other factors, other combinations in the middle of a fight, e.g. 1) a healing combo, 2) a power combo, 3) several mitigation combos, & 4) an alternate DPS/bleed/stun combo. But, once more, I feel constrained by space to explain all this in detail; so I will stick with discussing my opening gambit.)

So why did I choose the above 4 DPS actions as my first fighting blows/Active Skills? I chose the above 4 DPS actions because I was able to significantly maximize their individual DPS (in conjunction with other crucial fighting skills, such as increased partial parry chance, foe slows, etc.) which are associated with certain of these 4 actions.

As an example, let’s look briefly at my Brutal Assault to see what I mean. (Likewise, I will expand on this discussion this weekend when I return home and am able to access my toon. I dislike keeping anyone in suspense but I was afraid this topic would get forgotten if I didn’t respond now as opposed to this weekend.)

In conclusion, I hope the information in this post and the one coming this weekend helps you Guards who are interested in fighting in the moors to do so. Don’t be put off by others saying Guards are worthless in the moors. As I said earlier, I win much more often than I lose in the moors; and, if I didn’t, I would quit playing Guard and try something else. If I can win more than I lose then you should as well. Correct?

Good luck out there.

I am not nearly the veteran of all of you. I just Reached rank 6 and although, I was familiar with many of your tips and tricks I did learn a thing or two from this. So thank you for that. I thought I would add just a little bit. I know many of you probably do this. But I often switch in and out of gear mid fight. I have a guard build that allows me to do over 4k worth of heals, not sure exactly what it is. But by having the draig set bonus + the legacies for warriors fortitude and cab you can heal yourself alot. I just pop brutal charge switch gear and come back with over half my health. You can do this twice. On a side not how do the baubles work. I swear when I un-equip the martyr buable it doesn't give the 2k health. Glad to have guards to talk to see you out there.

As I stated in an earlier post I am providing a description of my Guard’s relevant moor stats. I am doing so to aid Guard’s who are considering, or are new to, playing p v. mp. My relevant stats are noted below:

Morale	12,370
Power	2,484
Might	1,237
Agility	505
Vitality	1,428
Will	153
Fate	132
Critical Hit	6,031
Finesse	5,184
Physical Mastery	16,054
Resistance	7,080
Parry	6,664
Physical Mitigation	10,194
Tactical Mitigation	9,831

Note the large Physical Mastery stat, that number in conjunction with Critical Hit and Finesse is one of the main ways I attempt to increase my Guard’s lethality.

Another way I try to increase my Guard’s DPS is, obviously, via the weapon and belt. I mentioned in my previous post that the Brutal Assault active skill is my first attack blow in my initial 4 step chain. I also explained the reason—DPS; thus I have built the Guard’s moors weapon and belt so as to provide 1) an additional 10% Brutal Assault Damage, 2) +6 Guardian Bleed Pulses, and 3) +17.7% Guardian Bleed Damage. This, in conjunction with OP and Hemorrhage, results in a Brutal Assault base DPS score of 880 to 1314 with a 50% chance of 232 damage each 2 seconds for 32 seconds. This results, 50% of the time, in a total base DPS score of 4,592 to 5,026. I have similarly attempted to maximize the abilities of the other three action skills in my initial chain.

On a different note, the original poster, I remember, was asking about feedback regarding the “tanking” role of Guards in the moors. My experience is that in larger raids (12—24) my Guard does play a “tanking” role, though outfitted as described earlier. Typically the raid leader will have two target assists—1) a range target assist and 2) a melee assist. The latter is usually an experienced Guard. When taking keeps it is the “heavies” that initially draw aggro and get “close and personal’ with those trolls and chieftains, while the range stand further away doing their “pew pew”. And it is the Guard who initiates the fight with the Tyrant. Even in OP my Guard has never had problems in this area, i.e. drawing and keeping aggro.

But some of the real fun of playing Guard in the moors is patrolling in what I call “commando” mode, as if one was a member of an SAS “brick of four” or a small SEAL team. A favorite formation of mine is a “brick of four” consisting of my Guard, another Guard, a minstrel and a hunter. Probably others have other analogous favorite small team formations which they can share.

In conclusion, to paraphrase a Creep from my server, to play effectively one must thoroughly understand and utilize your toon's strengths and compensate for your toon's weakness…that’s a part of the game and a part of why the game is fun.