Thread: Star lit Crystal Discussion

Originally Posted by wikjif

My observations based off of what has been posted on these forums is that it appears that the dps, ratings, and other stuff that the crystals affect change in a way that appears to be equivalent to increasing the level of the LI's item level, ....If this is true then that means that this could actually be the first step to a system that becomes "LIs grow with you" ....

+rep
100% agreed

Originally Posted by wikjif

My observations based off of what has been posted on these forums is that it appears that the dps, ratings, and other stuff that the crystals affect change in a way that appears to be equivalent to increasing the level of the LI's item level, not required character level, by 1 for each crystal that is installed into it and therefore could be used as a way to keep them relevent for a little bit longer after the level cap goes up compared to not having them at all (eg. If you don't use a crystal you need to replace it every 3-5 levels when killing stuff starts to slow down noticably, but on the other had if 3 crystals makes your 75 LI equivalent to a 78 LI then you can wait 6-8 levels later before you notice the slow killing.). If this is true then that means that this could actually be the first step to a system that becomes "LIs grow with you" but if most of the people on the forums call it the devil before we even see any of the long term results that it could bring then they will do it anyway while the complaints go unanswered.

+ rep. I didnt think of that at first but raises some questions for me.

If this is the case then that could be nice (depending on how they build off of it) but it seems like a round about way to do it imo. Your putting in a item that makes your LI slightly more useable for a little longer with the end result being that you still throw the item away because eventually the crystals are going to stop being equal to a higher level LI, and with (Im not positive about this) no way to gain the crystals back just to start the whole grind all over again. Just to re-iterate (in case I missed your point) if you have a 82 item with 3 crystals that make it equal to the initial damage of a lvl 85 LI, you are still going to have to replace the 82 LI to achieve the max dps (or other stats) a lvl 85 LI will do. People have said earlier that there are many thing in the game that actually do level with you, and it seems to me there would be simpler/more direct ways to achieve a "level with you" LI. Assuming of course that is the reason they introduced these crystals

When they introduced the Legendary system I hoped it was a very flexible system much like traits. Retraiting lets you go from a dps minstrel to a healing one, a cc loremaster to a dps loremaster and it is done quickly at a bard.

With legendaries you can't relegacy them for another purpose because it would take too long and the only other way is to make multiple LI's and this simply gets out of hand.

Basically you are better off choosing a style and sticking to it. For instance, i have a lightning runestone and satchel. Im not going to make two more runestones for fire and healing and two more satchels for fire and healing too. Some people might do it but it simply isnt worth my time. On top of that, once the level cap rises again virtual none of that work will carry through anyway.

Originally Posted by defrule

When they introduced the Legendary system I hoped it was a very flexible system much like traits. Retraiting lets you go from a dps minstrel to a healing one, a cc loremaster to a dps loremaster and it is done quickly at a bard.

With legendaries you can't relegacy them for another purpose because it would take too long and the only other way is to make multiple LI's and this simply gets out of hand.

Basically you are better off choosing a style and sticking to it. For instance, i have a lightning runestone and satchel. Im not going to make two more runestones for fire and healing and two more satchels for fire and healing too. Some people might do it but it simply isnt worth my time. On top of that, once the level cap rises again virtual none of that work will carry through anyway.

Exactly
The same goes for captain too.It begs the question: how Li grow with us

Originally Posted by t-town-colt

+ rep. I didnt think of that at first but raises some questions for me.

That is more-so the half truth.

-----_____-----_____----- <------current grind with LIs

------______------______------ <--- new grind with LIs + crystals.


Sure LIs might last longer with crystals but it'll also take longer to grind the new LIs. Things become even worse when thinking about alts. People must put in MORE time for alts while receiving the benefits of best LI for a shorter period of time. I suppose crystals can be aquired on main and given to alts, but that is still grinding done for gearing out an alt. Alts are played much less than a main toon, so any added grind to the game only hinders people from playing different classes. Many people don't like playing one class but they also don't like endless grinds. It's either "stick with 1 class and be bored with it" or "play 2
+ classes but be stuck in never-ending grinding while never experiencing the fun of full potential on the classes"

As we all know, it don't take very long to level up. Heck, I have a level 72 minstrel that is using a lvl 59 first age weapon for dps yet. The DPS is low but it's not like the content is hard where I require a lvl 65-72 weapon. I easily get by without crystals. The longer life-age that will be seen is simply an illusion while the grinding to aquire will be real.

Originally Posted by timmyloo22546

That is more-so the half truth.

-----_____-----_____----- <------current grind with LIs

------______------______------ <--- new grind with LIs + crystals.


Sure LIs might last longer with crystals but it'll also take longer to grind the new LIs. Things become even worse when thinking about alts. People must put in MORE time for alts while receiving the benefits of best LI for a shorter period of time. I suppose crystals can be aquired on main and given to alts, but that is still grinding done for gearing out an alt. Alts are played much less than a main toon, so any added grind to the game only hinders people from playing different classes. Many people don't like playing one class but they also don't like endless grinds. It's either "stick with 1 class and be bored with it" or "play 2
+ classes but be stuck in never-ending grinding while never experiencing the fun of full potential on the classes"

As we all know, it don't take very long to level up. Heck, I have a level 72 minstrel that is using a lvl 59 first age weapon for dps yet. The DPS is low but it's not like the content is hard where I require a lvl 65-72 weapon. I easily get by without crystals. The longer life-age that will be seen is simply an illusion while the grinding to aquire will be real.

I agree with you that adding these crystals is just increasing the LI grind and I mentioned that even if the crystals do make a LI stronger so it last a little longer that eventually you still have to trash it for a better LI in the end. I was just stating that perhaps this is a step toward a LI that grows with you. In the end I don't think it is and that this is goiong to be just another grind added into the LI grind system, and therefore a way for them to offer crystals through the store to make it easier.

Originally Posted by t-town-colt

+ rep. I didnt think of that at first but raises some questions for me.

If this is the case then that could be nice (depending on how they build off of it) but it seems like a round about way to do it imo. Your putting in a item that makes your LI slightly more useable for a little longer with the end result being that you still throw the item away because eventually the crystals are going to stop being equal to a higher level LI, and with (Im not positive about this) no way to gain the crystals back just to start the whole grind all over again. Just to re-iterate (in case I missed your point) if you have a 82 item with 3 crystals that make it equal to the initial damage of a lvl 85 LI, you are still going to have to replace the 82 LI to achieve the max dps (or other stats) a lvl 85 LI will do. People have said earlier that there are many thing in the game that actually do level with you, and it seems to me there would be simpler/more direct ways to achieve a "level with you" LI. Assuming of course that is the reason they introduced these crystals

If my wild mass guessing is right then it is possible that Turbine put a limit of only allowing 3 crystals to be put into the LIs as a way to test out how the idea that they may be playing with would work to make the "grow with you" LIs without allowing you to make an LI that starts off as a level 75 item in the land of level 75 enemies to become a level 80 or 90 item and completely blow anything and everything up before they work out the details on how far above the level cap they are willing to let the LIs go or they make the tech that would be required to change the level of an already existing item, which to the best of my knowledge the closest thing they currently have to that is instances that can make items of a range of levels.

Yet another shameless money grab. These crystals solve a problem that doesn't exist. Acquiring them won't be in any way fun or challenging, just a grind. Turbine will make money when they get added to the store as a "convenience" though, so that's reason enough to add them to the game.

One thing that wonder about... If the increase on a 75 FA is really as tiny as 149.7 -> 150.5 for the first crystal (presumably because the increase from r1 to r7 is quite small but the base DPS is high), can a 75 SA be upgraded to have higher DPS than a first age?

Why don't you just make First Ages the maximum and First Ages be the top DPS and make that a little more damage?

Originally Posted by Tarenius

These crystals solve a problem that doesn't exist.

Seriously, who asked for another disposable grind for the LI system? And the slippery slope continues... as with stat tomes, "pay or grind" seems as applicable here as "pay to win." Yet another straw of being nickel and dimed. I wish I could have seen the game this became if store items were limited to cosmetics.

Originally Posted by Tarenius

Yet another shameless money grab. These crystals solve a problem that doesn't exist. Acquiring them won't be in any way fun or challenging, just a grind. Turbine will make money when they get added to the store as a "convenience" though, so that's reason enough to add them to the game.

One thing that wonder about... If the increase on a 75 FA is really as tiny as 149.7 -> 150.5 for the first crystal (presumably because the increase from r1 to r7 is quite small but the base DPS is high), can a 75 SA be upgraded to have higher DPS than a first age?

I got reminded of stat tomes with these things. Equally unwanted and grindy and pathetic attempt at milking even more money out of the store.

I think what a lot of people fail to realize is that Turbine isn't this big evil corporation out to rip us all off at every opportunity, but it is a business and as such it needs to make money. It isn't impossible to sustain a continual development model without continual revenue. That means trying to find ways of making money from the thousands of people that paid £100 for a lifetime subscription a few years ago. If the LOTRO store pays for new content every month then I fully support the model.

Back on topic, this game needs grinding. The best gear must always be only available to the players that put the most effort in. What would be the point of T2 raiding without the prospect of getting a 1st age weapon? A lot of people seem to want the best gear in the shortest time with the least effort. Wow, great, everyone on the server has the best gear possible after 3 weeks of a new Update. What do we do now until the next release? Not a lot.

When you think about it, the LI grind isn't all that bad. Remember, if they take this grind away they will replace it with something else, something possibly a lot worse.

My main is a hunter, the thing I'm most worried about is threat. Already tanks have an insane job trying to keep up with the dps as is. Add these crystals in, to make our dps even MORE? It's just not smart, until you take a serious serious look at the aggro mechanics in the game. The crystals will boost the tank's aggro a bit, but will it be at the same rate as the dps? Will it be at a higher rate? A lower rate? What will happen when everyone will REQUIRE guardians and wardens to have three crystals on their LIs just so they can hold aggro off of the worst dps you could imagine, just because they have the right stuff and the tank doesn't?

Another thing that I saw said in this thread, though I don't believe it to be true because someone said that they put it on a halberd, is someone said it's for CLASS items only? Uh...? If that were true, what about the hunters and wardens, who have NO class items at all? Does that put them in the SOL category, just like the mitigation titles for class items only?


Most everyone is talking about not wanting another grind into the game. I just want to know about the balance first and foremost. I already, if I have a tank that i do not know/is not in my kin, will NOT go above 900 dps, ever, and rarely will I try for higher then 700. If this goes in, I will not be running with any pug tanks again, just because I will not trust for them to have what it takes to keep aggro off me, and because already hunters get blamed for too much. It's time to start blaming the mechanics, not the players, at that point.

I'm very $keptical. Will the$e be "extremely rare" ju$t like the $tat tome$ and relic removal $croll$ are "lootable in-game"? We've $een how thi$ ha$ played out in the pa$t, I have no rea$on to believe thi$ will be any different.


(there, rant over, I swear)


The VERY LAST thing LIs needed was "moar DPS!" Why add this? Why now? Is this the hamster wheel that's supposed to keep the hardcore players busy til the next expansion? I can't see anyone calling this a "must-have" except for the most hardcore of players, and I doubt this will hold their interest for that long.

Originally Posted by keikii

My main is a hunter, the thing I'm most worried about is threat. Already tanks have an insane job trying to keep up with the dps as is. Add these crystals in, to make our dps even MORE? It's just not smart, until you take a serious serious look at the aggro mechanics in the game. The crystals will boost the tank's aggro a bit, but will it be at the same rate as the dps? Will it be at a higher rate? A lower rate? What will happen when everyone will REQUIRE guardians and wardens to have three crystals on their LIs just so they can hold aggro off of the worst dps you could imagine, just because they have the right stuff and the tank doesn't?

Another thing that I saw said in this thread, though I don't believe it to be true because someone said that they put it on a halberd, is someone said it's for CLASS items only? Uh...? If that were true, what about the hunters and wardens, who have NO class items at all? Does that put them in the SOL category, just like the mitigation titles for class items only?


Most everyone is talking about not wanting another grind into the game. I just want to know about the balance first and foremost. I already, if I have a tank that i do not know/is not in my kin, will NOT go above 900 dps, ever, and rarely will I try for higher then 700. If this goes in, I will not be running with any pug tanks again, just because I will not trust for them to have what it takes to keep aggro off me, and because already hunters get blamed for too much. It's time to start blaming the mechanics, not the players, at that point.

dropping agro is easy, i have hunt and a wrd, hunters dont know when to start dropping agro, trend is that dps classes try to race in raid/group situation for max dps resulting pulling agro. sometimes when i play warden and some hunter or champion who dont drop agro i swap my stance and drop every agro i have. knowing that after they die and healer is up is easy to survive w/o dps classes, takes a bit longer but pain is fight over agro when they dont try to drop/lower agro. dont know how is with champion but with hunter is easy to lower agro as part of skill rotation , its called endurance stance QS. yet i dont see many hunters use that. u say u dont go above 900 dps lol i sustain ca 1,5-2k dps w/o pulling agro, my main concern is power issue. fix SoA legendary traits pls

I am also one of those who see these crystals as an additional grind, nothing more, nothing less. Someone made a point that with these crystals you can "upgrade your item level" by 1-3 levels effectively, so you don't have to get new LI's so often.

But in reality, while someone who playes 9 characters and is wearing 19 LI's at all times, I try to minimize my grind anyway. That means, that when RoI was released and level cap was raised from 65 to 75, I surely didn't trash my hard-earned and upgraded LI's somewhere in the middle on my way to 75. I used my lvl 65 (or even lvl 60 in some cases) items all the way to 75, and only then I switched for lvl 75 3rd age LI's. And that was for weapons only. With class items I didn't bother until we got "free" worn symbols from Epic questline, because that was the first time I got my hands on those. I crafted legendary class items, not for every character but for those who needed them most (because I got too bad legacies at ID with some items, too bad that I didn't even consider levelling them up). That's because I thought I will keep those class items for some time, but my weapons will surely get upgraded when level cap rises again.

So, I am not going to slot a single crystal, not before I have got a lvl 85 3rd Age weapon, the one I am going to keep. There is no point, same thing with extraordinary relics, or empowerment scrolls, because they all go to waste when you deconstruct your item.

It would be great if the whole LI system was like skirmish soldier system, where nothing goes to waste, but we can only hope Turbine changes it. Is it likely? Unfortunately no.

By the way, someone said we can already prepare for lvl 85 items by getting right legacies. But if I am not mistaken, with those scrolls you get from current LI's you can apply them to max lvl 80 items only. Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

Originally Posted by JonXu

dropping agro is easy, i have hunt and a wrd, hunters dont know when to start dropping agro, trend is that dps classes try to race in raid/group situation for max dps resulting pulling agro. sometimes when i play warden and some hunter or champion who dont drop agro i swap my stance and drop every agro i have. knowing that after they die and healer is up is easy to survive w/o dps classes, takes a bit longer but pain is fight over agro when they dont try to drop/lower agro. dont know how is with champion but with hunter is easy to lower agro as part of skill rotation , its called endurance stance QS. yet i dont see many hunters use that. u say u dont go above 900 dps lol i sustain ca 1,5-2k dps w/o pulling agro, my main concern is power issue. fix SoA legendary traits pls

Not to get into a whole hunter aggro, endurange/precision, self-nerf argument here, but I have my character set up for T2 ToO. I mostly rely on my tanks there to know how to do their job. If i have to go against a tank I don't know, it's just not worth it to go higher in most cases unless the tank is on the better end of pug tanks, or I think I can handle the mob in question. It's the spike damage that does it. With 23%ish crit rating that can be dangerous, and keeping on the lower end of dps to help manage the spikes helps me not get aggro.

And I remember reading that it endurance+quick shot is mostly neutral. With the amount of crit I have, plus the +quick shot critical chance legacy on my bow, I believe that the crits from the quickshots would be more then the neutrality of the endurance stance+quick shot mechanic. Unless they've changed that since I last checked?

So if they wanna give me more, go ahead, I'll take it into where it is wanted, with tanks that can (hopefully) handle it.

increases freep DPS and healing? give creeps these things not the freeps.

Are the people who thought of star lit crystals the same people who decided to make the 'x' key screw with the camera and cause headaches?

Originally Posted by Gilean-EU

....
So, I am not going to slot a single crystal, not before I have got a lvl 85 3rd Age weapon, the one I am going to keep. There is no point, same thing with extraordinary relics, or empowerment scrolls, because they all go to waste when you deconstruct your item. ...

The only thing that has no point is running around with level cap toons that have sub-par gear while hoarding a million skirmish marks, hundred thousands of relics and the like. The stuff you get from doing content is there to use it. Having two ToO T2 ready toons with a third coming up, I can only say for me that the severity of equipment grind gets less, not more.

If you rather play 9 toons instead of focusing on fewer, thats fine and your choice, but you should realize that your opinion on grind is hardly representative. Personally I think that its a bit overblown to gimp your characters NOW to have more stuff available WHEN RoR hits. Following that line of thought, you will always scale yourself back because "that new expansion will come anyway".

Originally Posted by Wilksie

I think what a lot of people fail to realize is that Turbine isn't this big evil corporation out to rip us all off at every opportunity, but it is a business and as such it needs to make money. It isn't impossible to sustain a continual development model without continual revenue. That means trying to find ways of making money from the thousands of people that paid £100 for a lifetime subscription a few years ago. If the LOTRO store pays for new content every month then I fully support the model.

Back on topic, this game needs grinding. The best gear must always be only available to the players that put the most effort in. What would be the point of T2 raiding without the prospect of getting a 1st age weapon? A lot of people seem to want the best gear in the shortest time with the least effort. Wow, great, everyone on the server has the best gear possible after 3 weeks of a new Update. What do we do now until the next release? Not a lot.

When you think about it, the LI grind isn't all that bad. Remember, if they take this grind away they will replace it with something else, something possibly a lot worse.

I am not a fan of the LI system but I can live with it. I agree that the best gear should go to the person who put the most effort in, but I don't think that has to be grinding a LI. I enjoyed the system back in mirkwood (not talking aout radience) but to get the best gear you had to beat t2 bg. Rather than oh just beat t1 and we'll make them acquirable by seals. They are replacing grinding with quality content imo.

I also have to say that yes turbine is a business and the store helps them generate revenue. However, I do not like seeing stuff we have to grind for to make the best gear in the game available in the store. With the crystals I think they are being added to the game simple to generate store revenue. Here is another thing you can grind for or just buy them from the store. This doesnt completely change the LI system in any way other than increasing everyone's dps and stats a little despite there being to reason to increase the dps or stats a little bit.

Looks like this thread has seen some massive derailment, but hopefully someone can address this question: if our fabulous tester was able to get max level 65 crystals from a scaled lvl 51 GB, can I farm the hell out of level 66 stuff to get max level 75 crystals? I can probably solo lvl 66 school/lib fast enough that I'd do this for sure.

If the grind isn't *too* bad, I'd absolutely grind 6 crystals for my champ, 3 to use on his 2A now and 3 to bank for when I get a 1A.

Really, 3 crystals per LI is not a horrible grind at all if the drop rates are anything like what has been seen in this thread so far (one person essentially got 3 in what, a day?).

Would have been awesome if these crystals gained your LI a level (up until max: currently 75). That way instead of getting a new WSOC at level cap you could just get a bunch of crystals and keep your same weapon.

Maybe my LI would feel more legendary when I don't scrap it every 10 levels.

I was on Bullroarer for a bit today, and apparently one of the GMs was giving out star-lit crystals. Hopefully some of the users who got them will come and post some solid concrete data here.

This change and lack of any PvMP balance changes make me pretty pumped for GW2. Came back to this game after SWTOR wasn't as good as it seemed it would be, hoping this game would "maybe" get its act together- boy, did I delude myself yet again.

If this change goes through and there are no additional PvMP changes, maybe you'll see me again for RoR Turbine...

I don't like the crystal thing.

I mean, it's a good idea, but it isn't necessary at this moment in time. I mean, instead of increasing our DPS and Healing yall could be working on, oh I don't know, maybe the moors?

Or if you go through with the crystals, at least make it so we only need to grind once. We can empower the crystals into different stages in future raids. T1 and T2 Empowered crystals in the next raid. T1 and T2 Minor (3-man) Major (6-man) Crystals of Star-light.

Simply adding random crystals with little to no real development is not what people asked for.

For the life of me, I cannot find the quote, but it was once stated by, I believe, one of the writers on Massively (now owned by Joystiq), that LOTRO going Free to Play may eventually lead to Turbine SELLING us FIXES instead of actually fixing them. These "Star Lit Crystals" come to mind in this situation, although I think, in this situation, they are adding a bad idea on top of an already bad idea, which - IMHO - will backfire on them in the future. But, I digress.

That being said, this also brings the barter wallet to mind.

Barter tokens were a problem since Siege of Mirkwood, which introduced the "new" skirmishing system and the tons of barter tokens associated with it. Lest we forget that Turbine was already well into the stages of operating on the association of the rep barter system also coming in its token variations (Lothlorien leaves). Mirkwood also tacked on some more (Mirkwood branches). And don't forget the instance barter tokens as well (Moria and Mirkwood armor tokens).

People were, to say the least, irked by the situation.

When Enedwaith rolled around and introduced yet another slew of tokens (from two different factions), the complaints grew louder. "Fix the problem you are creating!", the community said. Turbine bowed and complied. Their first implementation to this promise that they would fix what they were breaking came with the consolidated wallet. Our skirmish tokens were thrown into this wallet and removed from our bags.

"What about the rest of the tokens!", the community shot back.

"I believe the answer you are looking for is, they are not added... YET. This is the first pass at the barter wallet, other items will be added to it in the future. I don't know what items will be added when, however. " - Sapience, Oct 2010

What Sapience really meant by, "in the future" was, "at a later time in which we will be able to sell it to you".

Cut the pizza whichever way you want, it's still going to taste the same in the end. Turbine has reached the point where they are now selling fixes to the problems they cause - and, in the case of the barter wallet, a problem that they vowed to the community that they would eventually solve. And they did...at a price.

Yet, people still shelled out $9.95 for it when they rolled it out. $9.95 for a problem they should have fixed long ago.

I had offered a solution that would alleviate both the barter wallet and the storage problem, a one-world currency. But, I guess you can't make money with that idea.

Next they'll be telling us "For 1000 TP you can use the new and improved LOTRO forums or get stuck with the 'Beta' forums until the end of the game!" /sigh

First it was tomes to increase your stats, now it's "upgrades" for your LI to increase your damage. What next? Are we going to have slots in our character panels for store bought upgrades to our armor as well? Sure, they aren't selling the end-game armor like they said they would (not yet, anyway), but they sure are well on the way to selling us upgrades for said armor which, in reality, is just a workaround for selling us the armor itself (like the tomes or the new Star-lit Crystals dropping in game is a workaround for having them in the store).

It's disheartening to say the least.

Originally Posted by Elderban

First it was tomes to increase your stats, now it's "upgrades" for your LI to increase your damage. What next? Are we going to have slots in our character panels for store bought upgrades to our armor as well? Sure, they aren't selling the end-game armor like they said they would (not yet, anyway), but they sure are well on the way to selling us upgrades for said armor which, in reality, is just a workaround for selling us the armor itself (like the tomes or the new Star-lit Crystals dropping in game is a workaround for having them in the store).

It's disheartening to say the least.

The Tomes irk me to no end. They claim that they drop in game, but I would have to play this game for about 30 years to actually get them through that method. It is something that is technically true, but is quite disingenuous to claim is a valid method for obtaining them. I appreciate the game that Turbine has made and have thoroughly enjoyed my time here, but I only have a finite amount of patience and goodwill and the stat Tomes just about used up the end of it. If these Star Crystals turn out to be similarly distributed then my assumption is that it will be impossible to acquire them through normal gaming methods before dying of old age (oh but you can always buy them in the store!).

I thing Tarrant (a Turbine employee) explained it best back in 2010 when referring to diamonds (upgrades) for ships in DDO...

The diamonds themselves won't be available from chests or drops, but Turbine Points can be earned by attaining favor, which can be used to buy Astral Diamonds, so by the transitive property, yes, they can be earned in-game.

Originally Posted by Vandervahn

The only thing that has no point is running around with level cap toons that have sub-par gear while hoarding a million skirmish marks, hundred thousands of relics and the like. The stuff you get from doing content is there to use it. Having two ToO T2 ready toons with a third coming up, I can only say for me that the severity of equipment grind gets less, not more.

If you rather play 9 toons instead of focusing on fewer, thats fine and your choice, but you should realize that your opinion on grind is hardly representative. Personally I think that its a bit overblown to gimp your characters NOW to have more stuff available WHEN RoR hits. Following that line of thought, you will always scale yourself back because "that new expansion will come anyway".

The thing is, that I solo with my 9 toons. That means, with the current loot distribution, I can NEVER be in a situation where I have million skirmish marks or hundred thousands of relics. Not to mention medallions, which I almost never see more than 10 or so per skirmish (if I do both encounters and use instance finder bonus), or seals, which I actually never see (unless I win those from lottery). Oh, I did complete quest deed of Limlight Gorge with all 9, same with advanced titan-slayer deed, but after I realized that I can't upgrade my purple baubles unless I do Fangorn instance, I thought there's no point grinding for kindred with them.

So altough this is a bit offtopic, I have to deal with the little I can get by soloing, and distribute all that by 9 characters. That means I need to save up my stuff and use them only at level cap, which I have been doing now. When Rohan goes live, I level up my toons with my current LI's, being more and more handicapped when lvl 85 gets close, and only then I can equip my new LI's that I want to keep until next level cap raise etc. Same thing with star-lit crystals: If I happen to find them, I will put them to my shared storage and use them on those lvl 85 items.

Now IF the LI system worked like skirmish soldiers, I could (and would) upgrade my LI's every time I level up, meaning that my legendary items would actually grow with me, just like we were originally promised. But for current LI system, these star-lit crystals are just another addition to single-use item grind.

Eh, I'm down with these crystals--gives me another goal for my captain. See, I'd already eaten most of the carrot dangling in front of me.

Originally Posted by Elderban

For the life of me, I cannot find the quote, but it was once stated by, I believe, one of the writers on Massively (now owned by Joystiq), that LOTRO going Free to Play may eventually lead to Turbine SELLING us FIXES instead of actually fixing them. These "Star Lit Crystals" come to mind in this situation, although I think, in this situation, they are adding a bad idea on top of an already bad idea, which - IMHO - will backfire on them in the future. But, I digress.

That being said, this also brings the barter wallet to mind.

Barter tokens were a problem since Siege of Mirkwood, which introduced the "new" skirmishing system and the tons of barter tokens associated with it. Lest we forget that Turbine was already well into the stages of operating on the association of the rep barter system also coming in its token variations (Lothlorien leaves). Mirkwood also tacked on some more (Mirkwood branches). And don't forget the instance barter tokens as well (Moria and Mirkwood armor tokens).

People were, to say the least, irked by the situation.

When Enedwaith rolled around and introduced yet another slew of tokens (from two different factions), the complaints grew louder. "Fix the problem you are creating!", the community said. Turbine bowed and complied. Their first implementation to this promise that they would fix what they were breaking came with the consolidated wallet. Our skirmish tokens were thrown into this wallet and removed from our bags.

"What about the rest of the tokens!", the community shot back.

"I believe the answer you are looking for is, they are not added... YET. This is the first pass at the barter wallet, other items will be added to it in the future. I don't know what items will be added when, however. " - Sapience, Oct 2010

What Sapience really meant by, "in the future" was, "at a later time in which we will be able to sell it to you".

Cut the pizza whichever way you want, it's still going to taste the same in the end. Turbine has reached the point where they are now selling fixes to the problems they cause - and, in the case of the barter wallet, a problem that they vowed to the community that they would eventually solve. And they did...at a price.

Yet, people still shelled out $9.95 for it when they rolled it out. $9.95 for a problem they should have fixed long ago.

I had offered a solution that would alleviate both the barter wallet and the storage problem, a one-world currency. But, I guess you can't make money with that idea.

Next they'll be telling us "For 1000 TP you can use the new and improved LOTRO forums or get stuck with the 'Beta' forums until the end of the game!" /sigh

First it was tomes to increase your stats, now it's "upgrades" for your LI to increase your damage. What next? Are we going to have slots in our character panels for store bought upgrades to our armor as well? Sure, they aren't selling the end-game armor like they said they would (not yet, anyway), but they sure are well on the way to selling us upgrades for said armor which, in reality, is just a workaround for selling us the armor itself (like the tomes or the new Star-lit Crystals dropping in game is a workaround for having them in the store).

It's disheartening to say the least.

Turbine is not there yet, but will be soon.

one day they will be able to "manufature problems" and then sell us solutions. They are still selling us entertainment now.

or maybe I am underestimating their development and FTP was in the works 1+ year before live.

My opinion on this is, they only want to make skirmish raids usefull with this simple tool

Originally Posted by Gilean-EU

The thing is, that I solo with my 9 toons. That means, with the current loot distribution, I can NEVER be in a situation where I have million skirmish marks or hundred thousands of relics. Not to mention medallions, which I almost never see more than 10 or so per skirmish (if I do both encounters and use instance finder bonus), or seals, which I actually never see (unless I win those from lottery). Oh, I did complete quest deed of Limlight Gorge with all 9, same with advanced titan-slayer deed, but after I realized that I can't upgrade my purple baubles unless I do Fangorn instance, I thought there's no point grinding for kindred with them.

So altough this is a bit offtopic, I have to deal with the little I can get by soloing, and distribute all that by 9 characters. That means I need to save up my stuff and use them only at level cap, which I have been doing now. When Rohan goes live, I level up my toons with my current LI's, being more and more handicapped when lvl 85 gets close, and only then I can equip my new LI's that I want to keep until next level cap raise etc. Same thing with star-lit crystals: If I happen to find them, I will put them to my shared storage and use them on those lvl 85 items.

Now IF the LI system worked like skirmish soldiers, I could (and would) upgrade my LI's every time I level up, meaning that my legendary items would actually grow with me, just like we were originally promised. But for current LI system, these star-lit crystals are just another addition to single-use item grind.

I know what you are saying. I have several characters on one server, and 4 of those characters are end-game geared with full TOO sets, jewellery and weapons.

It was a long process to grind enough seals to purchase 24x Tower of Orthanc armour pieces (over 4,800 seals), 12x Draigoch scales, 10x Worn Symbol of Celebrimbor, and enough shards, t7 relics and IXP to max everything out....for each character.

The grind is optional, nobody is forcing you to do it. But regardless if you grind or not; once you get a hold of Star lit crystals -
they become game-changers.

My point is, that its not the grind which is bad, but it is the effect and impact the crystals will have on general gameplay, and especially the potentially massive effect onto the entire PVP community.

Q: So what if a healer gets some 13,7% extra heals?
A: Triumphant Spirit for 13,500 points will be increased to 15,350 instead, maybe that could keep a minstrel alive?

Q: Does it matter if Remorseless Strike does 12,8% more damage?
A: Who are you kidding, doesn't everyone want to one-shot a Reaver/Stalker/Weaver? (just ask the creep players).

Q: Why would it bother me if Wardens gets a 13,2% increase in block-rate?
A: You shouldn't be bothered, Wardens are extremely easy to kill in Ettenmoors once they are tank-traited.

Since Turbine doesn't care about balance, fairness, respect or the PVP community; its only a matter of time before the Star lit crystals are available in the store, so they can earn money from the players who already haven't left LOTRO.

Maybe, the crystals are a way, to make the high end contend doable for the ones willing to put in the efford to grind the crystals, without nerfing the contend. As far as I know, no one or just a selected few are able to complete ToO T2 challenge mode.

If they make a buck by selling the crystals to those ones willing to spend money, not time, it is ok with me.

Originally Posted by Asterotg

Maybe, the crystals are a way, to make the high end contend doable for the ones willing to put in the efford to grind the crystals, without nerfing the contend. As far as I know, no one or just a selected few are able to complete ToO T2 challenge mode.

If that was their intention, they could simple give players a +5% damage buff/armour increase upon entering the Tower of Orthanc.

No my friend, Turbine has yet another way to make money from the crystals, thats the reason why they appear in Tolkien lore.

so did anyone get 3 of these to upgrade their 75 weapon? how much does it increase? (yes I am too lazy to read the whole thread).

Hey guys, we know the original explanation of the Star-lit Crystals wasn't as clear as it could have been, so we'll try to break it down a little better for you.

Star-lit Crystals do not drop from landscape mobs.

Star-lit Crystals can drop from the final encounter in any instance or Skirmish above level 50. In addition, each boss in a raid has a chance to drop crystals. The chance depends on the size and tier of the space. So, for example, a Tier I solo Skirmish has a lower chance of dropping a crystal than the Tower of Orthanc on Tier 2.

Also, each space drops crystals that are appropriate for their level. So you aren't going to come across a lesser crystal in a level 75 space.

There is also a very small chance that any Skirmish Lieutenant will drop a crystal. Again, this chance increases as the size and tier are increased.

For those who want to solo for these you could, as an example, Take a level 75 into a level 50 Skirmish and set it to Tier II to improve your chances of a drop. You'd end up with the lower end crystal as the Skirmish would be underleveled, but you'd still get the same chance increase for doing it on Tier II as you would as if you were on level. If you wanted to set up a level 68 skirmish for your level 75, you'd end up in the right loot band to get the appropriate level for your character. Obviously this all applies to all group sizes and tiers as well.

Finally, they aren't bound (some of you already know this) so you can put them on the AH, trade them, sell them, put them in storage. Whatever you'd like to do.

Hopefully that clears things up a bit.

Thank you for the information, Sapience!

Sounds like I could potentially pick these up running Foundry, or RoF, or any of the other currently popular instances that I run several times a week already.

Also, thanks for making the classics and high tier skirmishes more relevant.

Originally Posted by socom33

The crystals are earned concurrently when doing instances for IXP/Relics, skraids for jewelry, raids like ToO for gear etc. It's not like you have to earn your other stuff and only THEN will you be able to actually get crystals.

This. Right now, I dont need xp, relics, gear drops, all that jazz. Crystals is the only thing. But that's only for this level cap and for my main. If RoR comes out and I do the whole thing of playing (oh sorry, grinding) again, I'll be earning crystals while I earn new gear.