Thread: And Once Again, Nothing for Hunters

As title states.

Well, and the problem with the hunter is ?

When you see the issue when they try to change something for other classes, I'm glad to have my guardian, my hunter and my captain to save my time

Maybe the devs are fuelled by tears of the hunters.

Originally Posted by Plutoxin

Maybe the devs are fuelled by tears of the hunters.

Every death of a hunter ingame earns ZC one dollar!

But really, it's too bad the dev's couldn't even fix our SoTE tick count problem. That was probably the most minor thing we could've asked for, and it wasn't included. Here's hoping they'll do a quick fix for it for the live patch

There is nothing in for most of the classes and this has to be a bad thing?
I am not aware of what hunters would desperatly need before RoR... beside small bug fixes perhaps. This goes also for all other classes.

We don't really *need* a lot of updates, I think, but *please* could anyone at Turbine could take, like five minutes just to look at channels skills duration, and add, say, 0.001s to every duration that maybe the last tick could be working?It's not only SoTE that is bugged... and it's like that since... before RoI I think, like 1 year or something?

On a small but plus side, it looks like they have set the waypoint for the Hunter's Guide to Galtrev to match the learnable Galtrev port. No more walking 3,000 miles to get in town, hooray!

(it looks like the Thorin's Gate Return/Guide has also been moved to just outside the entrance to the Hall, facing outward)

Yeah, maybe we will use it now

What's wrong with hunters exactly?

What you see in the notes are not new skills or abilities for other classes, but fixes...some much needed (Wardens).

But, honestly, I really don't think we need any more class revamps. We've had, what, two since F2P? I really wouldn't want to see another one until after we've reached 85, and that's only if we really needed it.

And as far as issues? I play a Hunter primarily, and never have problems with any of my skills.

(Although I would like a skill akin to the BA's Skirmish Stance...)

There's ongoing debate about survabibility, event it's not a problem for me, just a question of building for full dps or acceptable dps with survavibility, even if I would like press onward to be an IH (dreaming... .Aggro management can be a problem since it's always a dps tradeof, but not that much in fact, more about group play.Strengh of the earth have the last stick not working for almort a year, but it's not a class breakerThe only thing that can be really (yes, really) painful is our animation root.If Turbine insist, and I kind of like it, of building instances where quick movement is key (think foundry 1st boss, T2 ToO lightning, etc..), not beeing able to move for like, 2s, during switch bow or blindside animation is quite problematic.If I would like anything changed now, it would definitely be that, and my BA does not have the same problem

I don´t find any issue with my hunter. My hunter pals in my raidforce feel they´re fine (they could get more survability, as every light and medium armor character, i think it´s more a part of the game changed with RoI than a hunter issue). Hunter single target DPS is as good as RK one and better than any other class (brgs have the best one raidwise but they´re the ones who must be "fixed"). In the Moors and thanks to fleet stance they keep being monsters.

I´d like to hear though why hunter players feel they need ... something. Maybe some extra CC? we still use hunters as CC where it´s needed, and even if they´re not loremasters, they do fine.

I´m not sure what hunter players want.

Hunters seem like they are in a pretty good place, and meet the specs for the role they fill in groups. Asking for change just because it's been a long time since change is asking for bugs and playability issues.

Originally Posted by Fortinobrand

Hunters seem like they are in a pretty good place, and meet the specs for the role they fill in groups. Asking for change just because it's been a long time since change is asking for bugs and playability issues.

If traited, champs can add 25% of their aggro to tank every ~30s or so. Hunters get 1 skill that lasts 10s on a 2.30-3 minute cooldown.
Then there is the issue of hunter legacies. Not only are the choices extremely boring, and mostly pointless since the introduction of finesse; but you also have a system with focus/induction legacies that pretty much forces everyone to use the same 4-6 bow legacies (if they want to be taken seriously, and given that they aren't doing cc).
And then there are the ToF traits..

Originally Posted by cnrsnl

What's wrong with hunters exactly?

Well,

SotE gives one tick too little and still is not fixed. It does not scale over lvl 50 either.
Campfire does not scale over lv 50.
Traps do not scale well either.
Hunter's B/P/E (well, only P/E technically) does not scale over 50 either.
Hunters have one primary role - dps, but are 4th or 5th on the sustained dps rank.
They have basically no secondary role, and when they go CC, their dps puts them last or second to last.
They have no "oh darn" skill (except DF which also resets the fight, so really no good compared to the other "oh dear" skills).
Their threat creation severely limits their dps (unless the guardian is *very* good)
They got no (real) threat reduction skill which most other classes have.
The got no (real) increase crit chance skills, when other classes can get high crit scores with "ease"
Their legendary item legacies are much more expensive than the compared legacies of other classes.
They have to use twice as many legacies to get the same effect as other classes.
Items - specifically jewelry are more likely to have high might or will and more rarely have agility - thus, hunters have a tougher time to get "maxed" out gear.
Several of the higher epic rewards are specific (usually a legacy related reward) to all classes (even Warden) *except* the hunters.
Raids frequently take on an additionally burglar or minstel in WS instead of a hunter because they need "more dps" (and there is no champ or RK around).
... just to mention a few points.

Nothing for Guardians either, but then, what do we need?

Surely Hunters are perfect already?

Originally Posted by mjk47

Nothing for Guardians either, but then, what do we need?

Surely Hunters are perfect already?

The Royal Order of TANSTAAFL!!

But, hunters have been asking for changes for a long time, just depressing to see another update with no changes at all for us, even bug fixes.

Originally Posted by Murky_Majare

Well,

SotE gives one tick too little and still is not fixed. It does not scale over lvl 50 either.
Campfire does not scale over lv 50.
Traps do not scale well either.
Hunter's B/P/E (well, only P/E technically) does not scale over 50 either.
Hunters have one primary role - dps, but are 4th or 5th on the sustained dps rank.
They have basically no secondary role, and when they go CC, their dps puts them last or second to last.
They have no "oh darn" skill (except DF which also resets the fight, so really no good compared to the other "oh dear" skills).
Their threat creation severely limits their dps (unless the guardian is *very* good)
They got no (real) threat reduction skill which most other classes have.
The got no (real) increase crit chance skills, when other classes can get high crit scores with "ease"
Their legendary item legacies are much more expensive than the compared legacies of other classes.
They have to use twice as many legacies to get the same effect as other classes.
Items - specifically jewelry are more likely to have high might or will and more rarely have agility - thus, hunters have a tougher time to get "maxed" out gear.
Several of the higher epic rewards are specific (usually a legacy related reward) to all classes (even Warden) *except* the hunters.
Raids frequently take on an additionally burglar or minstel in WS instead of a hunter because they need "more dps" (and there is no champ or RK around).
... just to mention a few points.

Thanks for writing all of that, I started reading the thread and thought I was going to have to make a list myself!

Originally Posted by slflew

Originally Posted by Murky_Majare

Originally Posted by cnrsnl

What's wrong with hunters exactly?

Well,

SotE gives one tick too little and still is not fixed. It does not scale over lvl 50 either.
Campfire does not scale over lv 50.
Traps do not scale well either.
Hunter's B/P/E (well, only P/E technically) does not scale over 50 either.
Hunters have one primary role - dps, but are 4th or 5th on the sustained dps rank.
They have basically no secondary role, and when they go CC, their dps puts them last or second to last.
They have no "oh darn" skill (except DF which also resets the fight, so really no good compared to the other "oh dear" skills).
Their threat creation severely limits their dps (unless the guardian is *very* good)
They got no (real) threat reduction skill which most other classes have.
The got no (real) increase crit chance skills, when other classes can get high crit scores with "ease"
Their legendary item legacies are much more expensive than the compared legacies of other classes.
They have to use twice as many legacies to get the same effect as other classes.
Items - specifically jewelry are more likely to have high might or will and more rarely have agility - thus, hunters have a tougher time to get "maxed" out gear.
Several of the higher epic rewards are specific (usually a legacy related reward) to all classes (even Warden) *except* the hunters.
Raids frequently take on an additionally burglar or minstel in WS instead of a hunter because they need "more dps" (and there is no champ or RK around).
... just to mention a few points.

Thanks for writing all of that, I started reading the thread and thought I was going to have to make a list myself!

This all above and..
Mobility (Induction times are too long + Run Speed is too little, esp. in comparison to warden) - Despite having ports, there is nothing but one escape which doesn't even work in 'moors.
Legacy Exploit (can use bonus find the path speed while item not equipped)

I've essentially shelved my hunter. I have no reason to play something that's an induction machine which has only a temporary chance of hitting the target without setback, can't move, and is bugged up in several aspects.

Thank you to those who commented citing problems. I'm not the only one who actually reads the tooltips and compares with other classes apparently.

Originally Posted by mjk47

Nothing for Guardians either, but then, what do we need?

Surely Hunters are perfect already?

FYI, last time Hunters saw a definite 'Update' was over a year ago, which nerfed strength stance and altered our trait lines. Since then there was only ONE individual fix, which was to remove our ability to stack fleetness more than once using the RoI gear. You could also call the new skills from RoI a fix, but to the majority of hunter players, they are a complete waste.

________________

I'm someone who has a LOT of patience, but I've run out -- maybe two or three updates ago.

I agree with all the complaints/suggestions above.
Can only add that the hunter should get an (better) improved swiftness similar to the champion upgrades. IMO it should continue during the fight and not just for 30sec. After every fight it automatically wears off after 9 Sec out of combat. To reapply the buff every 30 sec is annoying. The focus over time would then be obsolete of course.
Alike this complaint, i also dont like the spamming of focus just to have the kritbuff when the combat starts. It should be active out of combat until the fight starts to avoid this.

Originally Posted by Murky_Majare

Hunters have one primary role - dps, but are 4th or 5th on the sustained dps rank.

Really? What classes are higher in the pecking order?

Originally Posted by Murky_Majare

They have basically no secondary role, and when they go CC, their dps puts them last or second to last.

If you wanted to cc, why would you roll a hunter?

Originally Posted by Murky_Majare

Their threat creation severely limits their dps (unless the guardian is *very* good)

Not a problem with the class, problem with the players you group with.

Originally Posted by Murky_Majare

The got no (real) increase crit chance skills, when other classes can get high crit scores with "ease"

Your primary stat is agility, you're saying you need crit skills? Hunts/burgs have it easy compared to other classes.

Originally Posted by Murky_Majare

Raids frequently take on an additionally burglar or minstel in WS instead of a hunter because they need "more dps" (and there is no champ or RK around).

Because hunters have a bad rap. Most seem to check their brain at the door, so for a pug/non serious raid, they want someone that has a higher chance of knowing what they're doing.

You hunters are a whiny bunch. BTW, I have a 75 hunter

Originally Posted by Batf1nk

Really? What classes are higher in the pecking order?

Champs, RKs, Burglars, WS Minstrels

Originally Posted by Batf1nk

If you wanted to cc, why would you roll a hunter?

Same reason you tank as a champion, dps as a minstrel, switch between healing and dps as a RK...
... having a secondary role.
I certainly do not /want/ to CC, but the hunter's secondary rule is very weak and that was my point.

Originally Posted by Batf1nk

Not a problem with the class, problem with the players you group with.

Well, yes and no.
If (and this is example numbers) a burgler does 1 threat for each damage point, but a hunter does 1.1 damage.
And the guardian can earn 1 point threat in the same duration, then burglar can go all out and the guardian will retain top treat.
The hunters however will have to ease up on their dps in order to not take aggro.
Which everyone should of course... but *compared* to other classes the hunter has to ease up more per damage point than other classes. They have threat reduction skills - hunters do not. (The tome they can use makes little to no difference).

Originally Posted by Batf1nk

Your primary stat is agility, you're saying you need crit skills? Hunts/burgs have it easy compared to other classes.

Everyone can add agility to up their crits. Burglar and hunter classes are dependent on crits. Burglars have crit increase skills. Hunters do not. And no, I do not /need/ anything. This was not a list of needs, this was a list of "not everything is perfect".

Originally Posted by Batf1nk

Because hunters have a bad rap. Most seem to check their brain at the door, so for a pug/non serious raid, they want someone that has a higher chance of knowing what they're doing.

Ah, yes, that trite old mantra. I do not buy it anymore. Hunter players aren't any better or worse than any other classes there. They might generally be morons in world of warcraft, but not here. I have personally rarely met a idiot hunter, but most certainly have met idiot all other classes. Hunters might have a bad rap in some communities here in Lotro, but nothing I've met. Hunters are often passed over because their class contribute less to a raid than half the other classes in the game. Their primary role, dps, is not valuable and their secondary role is weak. This is apparent not only in pugs but also in kin runs.

If you look at the players posting their worries about hunters and their roles, it is first of all not whining, but concerns.
The players posting their worries are veteran players, some of the more skilled hunter players we have. They are most certainly not noobs and the brainless players referred to here.

Originally Posted by Batf1nk

You hunters are a whiny bunch. BTW, I have a 75 hunter

I'm going to go on a limb here and guess that you play creeps a lot and fear that the free-points-hunters will be more difficult to defeat should they be more balanced. It fits the profile and I will allow myself to be a little prejudice about this.

Originally Posted by Batf1nk

Really? What classes are higher in the pecking order?

Depends. If you have average tank, you are self-nerfing. Other dps classes have no real need to do so. Real dps capabilities are irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Batf1nk

If you wanted to cc, why would you roll a hunter?

Um... ok,

U7: OP stance: damage: reduced, mitigations: reduced, skills: all of them with inductions.

If you wanted damage, why would you roll a guardian? ?

Originally Posted by Batf1nk

Not a problem with the class, problem with the players you group with.

For a hunter - yes. For other dps classes? Not so much.

Originally Posted by Batf1nk

Because hunters have a bad rap. Most seem to check their brain at the door, so for a pug/non serious raid, they want someone that has a higher chance of knowing what they're doing.

You hunters are a whiny bunch. BTW, I have a 75 hunter

Ohh, is that a reason your hunter has solo-only gear?

I doubt people were complaining about landscape and I doubt aggro is an issue @ 1k Agi so "having a hunter" is just as enlightening as "I have R2 reaver, stop QQ, I don't think there's anything wrong with the class...

...I could totally kill those slugs"


Yeah, class is not broken, it is indeed playable. Then again you don't need 75 hunter to know that.

Woohoo.

Also, we have bows and arrows, we can shoot using various skills and stuff like Auto-attack is fine...

..oh, wait, even that is bugged, forgot about Dev magnitude XD

A well geared and played hunter will have more dps than a minstrel, and arguably more burst dps than a minstrel.

This may have been different when the orthanac WS minstrel set was bugged.

Also i've seen hunter CC skills put to good use, sure it may require swapping a few traits in and our during raid, but several classes do that.

Originally Posted by Daec

A well geared and played hunter will have more dps than a minstrel, and arguably more burst dps than a minstrel.

This may have been different when the orthanac WS minstrel set was bugged.

Also i've seen hunter CC skills put to good use, sure it may require swapping a few traits in and our during raid, but several classes do that.

I do agree, a hunter can out burst DPS a minstrel pretty easily. It's just that we can only do that from ooc and that means it's absolutely useless in a raid setting. Who wants 15k+ damage in 5s when a tank needs to build aggro?

Hunter CC is great when we have a LI tailored to it and traited correctly, but compared to a burglar who can DPS 2k+ while ccing and us around 700 while CCing, kinda annoying.

Originally Posted by rannion

If traited, champs can add 25% of their aggro to tank every ~30s or so. Hunters get 1 skill that lasts 10s on a 2.30-3 minute cooldown.
Then there is the issue of hunter legacies. Not only are the choices extremely boring, and mostly pointless since the introduction of finesse; but you also have a system with focus/induction legacies that pretty much forces everyone to use the same 4-6 bow legacies (if they want to be taken seriously, and given that they aren't doing cc).
And then there are the ToF traits..

Point 1, bad threat reduction ... well, considering with the other similar DPS class (RK), hunters are miles away better threat management than RKs. They even get a threat reduction stance, and all kind of temporal and permanent aggro reduction tools. Can´t they go full DPS in such? Man, that´s precisely how a skilled player must act, learning when and how they can DPS. If not, it would be just button smashing.

About legacies ... yeah, but every class has the same problems/issues. There are some fixed legacies that everyone uses, and that´s all. It´s not a hunter class problem, it´s legacies design. It makes sense after all, it´s not possible to balance legacies in a way that the´re not "better" ones.

Originally Posted by Murky_Majare

Hunters have one primary role - dps, but are 4th or 5th on the sustained dps rank.

Raids frequently take on an additionally burglar or minstel in WS instead of a hunter because they need "more dps" (and there is no champ or RK around).

That is so untrue...

First, hunters have best burst DPS in the game. And yes, it´s needed on raids.

Second, hunters have best single target (needed for most raided bosses, who tend to be just ... one ) sustained DPS in the game, apart from what it brings the burglar, and similar to RK DPS. But the burglar is the problem, not the hunter. The champion or RK could complain aswell, considering they also bring less DPS than a burglar. I really hope this gets fixed one day, so the other DPS classes feel they dont need a bump (actually, stopping stacking burg debuffs would be enough).

About raids not getting hunters ... where? when? how? THe WS minstrel is a joke, isn´t it? The extra burglar ... fine. This also works on any other class, as i said right now burglars are broken. Hunters are needed in anyways on many ToO trash for their CC (no kidding) and on several ToO bosses they´re a must. We didn´t kill Shadow boss in T2 until our hunters got back; we actually would take burglars and champions away to get more hunters -and some of us did start lvling hunter alts to have them ready for that, as we lost some hunter players due they left game and so.

Hunters have a guanranteed spot on any serious raid. Period. So i can´t see issues here. Will any sensible raid leader bring more burglars to some fights where melee DPS doesn´t make healers stress more? Maybe, but that also works on RKs and champions, they will be dismissed over burglars. Still, hunters are kings of both burst and steady DPS. Asking for more DPS is an abomination.

Originally Posted by Bradegor

considering with the other similar DPS class (RK), hunters are miles away better threat management than RKs.

Er... you have one-click real threat reductions. No significant side effects. Then again, RKs are in the same boat from certain point of view - you should know why

Originally Posted by Bradegor

They even get a threat reduction stance, and all kind of temporal and permanent aggro reduction tools. Can´t they go full DPS in such? Man, that´s precisely how a skilled player must act, learning when and how they can DPS. If not, it would be just button smashing.

You mean dps reduction stance & dps reduction tools that are not necessarily working as threat reduction all the time?

There is nothing related to "skilled" in switching to Endurance - it is the same as "not shooting" for 5 seconds from time to time. I wouldn't call QS in Endurance reliable aggro reduction either - more like "it's all we have, whatever". Don't even get me started on the subject of threat legacies. The sheer amount of *sigh* in LI area is just sad.

Originally Posted by Bradegor

Asking for more DPS is an abomination.

I'd risk a guess hardly anyone is asking for more theoretical DPS.

I see that you have not pick the sentance about raids... because it's true, we need 1 hunters (2 is best) for Orthanc T2. I have done Kalbak with my hunter and you know why ? Because i'm a guardian who has a hunter. So, for kalbak, I just roll with my hunter and we shot down the damn troll

And for T2, we need the root of the hunter (i don't know how you say it in english, but you should understand) because the skill is wider than the one of the lore master.

You can check the profile of Fleura or Cyryon (and Alwend). Three of the most skilled and pvp hunter of estel. The have a damn dps... but they know how to play and they have not take the aggro, even under the +35% of the captain... because they not how to play.


A good hunter is not the guy how do dps dps dps dps, take aggro out of the guardian and all the group is dead. It's someone who will dps when needed (in kalbak, at the end for example). Sangoline, one of my kinmate is a burglar. Before dpsing something, he reinforce my aggro and then dps dps dps.

So, at the end, each of us have to play with quality when we speak about raids (skirmish apart because these are a joke).


So now, maybe hunters needs something to improve their gameplay, but currently, it's a class much welcome in raid (that's what not the same thing with the warden some times ago).

I don't understand aggro issues in serious raids, even when I switch to my full dps stuff, there is already in game a lot of aggro management tools like with champions and burgs, etc...It's all about group play, and especialy in hard content like T2 ToO everyone have to play well and undertand at least a minimum the other classes, and all goes well in matter of aggro.

On Estel, too, I have absolutely no problem finding a group, and I just do the dps we need, all the time, even dont really have a standard-full dps build, so when I see what damage a weel geared, well played, full-damage-built hunter hunter can do, I don't think we are in bad shape in this area too, be it single target or even in AoE if well traited/geared (last time I simply out damaged a champ...)

Also, some talks about delays when activating skills, I don't think it's a problem but just the dynamic of the class, playing with casts and instants to avoid after-cast effects, managing focus to increasing our shoot rate, hence maximize damage.
For a precise example, blindside is *really* instant after PS/BA/HA, so better use PS before it, and be prepared to it, etc...

So, at least in my mind, we are neither broken nor in desesperate need of buffing, but still, I would like some real, last longing, not challenging but painful bugs to be corrected.
* SoTE, dammit, is it so hard to have a working channel?
* blindside/swift bow root, don't tell me it's impossible, my BA have no root on comparable skills.
It's really annoying almost dying in T2 Foundry because of a root in the fire, and I say almost dying 'cause I'm somewhat survivability-built, for some others...
* Agile rejoinder/press onward heals not increased with L75.
It's kind of the same problem wardens had, It's just not important as it was for them, but still...

Just that adjusted, I would be a very happy hunter, and maybe after, we could talk about survavibility (just a matter of building in fact, I have no problem, I'm just the last hobbit standing most of the time, can offtank in some case, and that means DPS-built aggro here too , aggro management and such.

Don't think it's whining here

Ok... I know I'm supposed to just L2P! But this is what's the issue with Hunters:

- Mitigation and stat changes made our Medium as useless as Light armour, which means that Hunters a glass cannons now instead of somewhat-sturdy. Sure, we can build to have 10k morale, but then we're in no way competitive DPSers.

- DPS is very ok, but depends a lot on crits. In 1vs1 or tougher landscape fights this basically means your opponent drops before he reaches you if you get lucky, if you're unlucky you better have a plan B. This also distorts the view from other classes... because, yes, once in a blue moon we are capable of some awesome stuff.

- We can't manage our own threat, if going max DPS in a group I depend on the Tank doing enough threat, the Champion frequently using Ebbing Ire and the Burglar using Provoke to handle it. If any of them do a lesser job, all I can do about is reducing my damage output, ie. standing around for a bit.
There's three ways a hunter can currently 'manage' threat: 1) Just stay in Endurance stance and do 10% less threat as well as 5-10% less damage (pre-emptive and passive), 2) Stand around a bit once in a while or use suboptimal skills to reduce your damage output ('managing' by simply not doing anything) and 3) Hit Beneath Notice if you do pull aggro and pray the tank is able to regain it before BN runs out ('managing' by simply giving the tank time to fix the situation).
I do limit my DPS output, so the group doesn't fall apart... but saying that's 'managing my threat' is like saying a Minstrel is 'managing his power' by simply not healing anyone but the tank.

- Our secondary CC role requires high specialisation, but remains 'iffy'. Our Mezz-shot can Miss, or be BPE-d while the Mezz-effect on it can be Resisted. And when it does fail, we've got no instant backup. Our basic form of CC, Traps, are practically useless in groups because of immunities, they're untargetable and they basically require the Tank to pull the mob in the trap, (ie. all we're good for is putting the trap down, making it useful is up to the rest of the group). And that's not even mentioning the limited role CC has outside ToO.

For all the ppl complaining about hunter have no way to manage threat while in raids I have 2 words for you all:

Endurance Stance

Read above

And two words for you

One thing though,

The complaint about dps from the hunters has never been about burst damage even though that is continuously brought up from others "opposing" the complaint.

The complaint is about sustainable dps, not burst dps.

(Though, hunters aren't really top burst damage either).

First off, in raids, bosses and even most mobs aren't defeated by the burst damage, so what matters is the total damage.
Secondly, if a hunter actually use all their burst damage at the start of the fight, they are more or less guaranteed to get the aggro.

There has been posted countless of combat logs of the longer fights since the last 3-4 updates, and in each of them the hunter is consistently behind the champs and rks. Since update 5 also often behind the minstrels and since update 6 also behind the burglar.

And yes, endurance stance helps... just like a band aid on an arterial bleed helps... a little, but not much.
A hunter could also just stand there for the first five minutes of each fight and then go full dps.
They should not be able to grab the aggro then either.
But the issue still remains. The hunter have to lower/halt their dps at a far greater level than all other classes.
I rarely see other classes holding back their dps, the hunters always have to.

One poster below says their group brings hunters along or Orthanc T2... I will assume that he means as a dps role and not a secondary CC role, and then I would really love to hear what tactics they are using. (And so would most other raid groups).

The few times I have seen a hunter come along for Orthanc T2 is as a CC role. (And only because no LM showed up).

Originally Posted by Shreck_Eldar

For all the ppl complaining about hunter have no way to manage threat while in raids I have 2 words for you all:

Endurance Stance

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

The only thing Endurance Stance is useful for is to spam QS, which is hardly a DPS build. We need to use our other skills like Pen Shot/Blood Arrow/Swift Bow/Barbed Arrow/Hunter's Art to do any real damage, which all build aggro almost exactly the same in endurance stance. Going full out in that stance, a hunter will still pull aggro regularly anyways. Please, play a hunter (not a 75 solo hunter with quest gear) in competitive T2 ToO raid setting and tell me if we don't have problems still.

To anyone who thinks hunters don't need any changes


Roll one and
Go spend a few hours in the moors

Or do a raid with 2200 agility

Originally Posted by deaddove

As title states.

Considering hunters are universally the most hated and also the most played by incompetent morons, I don't see how this is an issue for most.

Originally Posted by The-Walrus

Considering hunters are universally the most hated and also the most played by incompetent morons, I don't see how this is an issue for most.

That's wargs derp

Originally Posted by Ferthcott

Depends. If you have average tank, you are self-nerfing. Other dps classes have no real need to do so. Real dps capabilities are irrelevant.


Um... ok,

U7: OP stance: damage: reduced, mitigations: reduced, skills: all of them with inductions.

If you wanted damage, why would you roll a guardian? ?


For a hunter - yes. For other dps classes? Not so much.


Ohh, is that a reason your hunter has solo-only gear?

I doubt people were complaining about landscape and I doubt aggro is an issue @ 1k Agi so "having a hunter" is just as enlightening as "I have R2 reaver, stop QQ, I don't think there's anything wrong with the class...

...I could totally kill those slugs"


Yeah, class is not broken, it is indeed playable. Then again you don't need 75 hunter to know that.

Woohoo.

Also, we have bows and arrows, we can shoot using various skills and stuff like Auto-attack is fine...

..oh, wait, even that is bugged, forgot about Dev magnitude XD

+rep.

Well still this thread is pure entertainment. Aggro Problems? Do less Damage like a minstrel playing his ballads, - genious. Some people here are beyond derp.

Originally Posted by Zulubeast

You really have no idea what you're talking about.

The only thing Endurance Stance is useful for is to spam QS, which is hardly a DPS build. We need to use our other skills like Pen Shot/Blood Arrow/Swift Bow/Barbed Arrow/Hunter's Art to do any real damage, which all build aggro almost exactly the same in endurance stance. Going full out in that stance, a hunter will still pull aggro regularly anyways. Please, play a hunter (not a 75 solo hunter with quest gear) in competitive T2 ToO raid setting and tell me if we don't have problems still.

buh-bah-nuh-nah endurance QS is a tool. dps build??? ### lower ur agro, go full dps rotate 2 time swap to endurance spam QS and back to dps is it so hard? u think that other classes can use all skils what they have? tanks must hold agro thay cant go to dps stance and go full out, can they. same goes to healers can they use all skills? why the hell hunter should do the same? running raid and doing solo with same skill rotation is not gonna work