Thread: Why all the hate on Wargs?

As a new PvPer I have been trying to soak up as much as I can knowledge wise and improve my skills. That being said I have noticed that alot of creeps/freeps dislike the warg class. What chance does a low level warg have? I have tried to solo different freeps and it is just a trip back to the rez circle for me. And if i get into a pack to have a chance all I hear is complaints. In raids I die alot...I charge in when the leader says charge, stick to the RAT, and am usually dead in a matter of seconds since it seems an unstealthed warg becomes target # 1 because of the afore mentioned hatred. So I am wondering...How would the rest of you nonwargies like wargs to play to make the Windy moors a better place?

P.S. I noticed you complaining about Wargfola packs..Thomasborn... in one of the threads. I have never seen you give me a get out of jail free card when I am by myself. I would solo you if I could but a)Champs are just OP in melee range and b) you are a really good champ and I know this because my main is a champ. So do you just want me to log on and let you kill me over and over and over again? Boy that sounds like fun...I would like you to roll a warg and then let me know how I should approach the champ class...I would really like to hear your insights on it.

This is just me, not every freep's perspective.
I don't hate wargs, i don't hate. I deeply dislike big packs. Not the same when you group up with another warg like you to improve your odds, but rather when you get jumped by a warg pack where half it's members are r9 and above.
I remember this one time i got jumped by 3 wargs on the norbogs so i bubbled ready to stay and give them a fight. To my surprise, my aoe bleed went off to discover 6 more. I still tried to kill my target but obviously failed. My point here: a pack that big jumping on a SOLO freep isn't looking for a fight, it is looking for an easy kill and that is what bugs me. It would be the same (or comparable) to me running with a HoH cappy and a healing mini against solo creeps. Even if i was to fight Murhaja it would be looking for an easy kill.
Being jumped by a pack of low rank wargs means (in my case) that im gonna get 1 or 2 kills and then die, being jumped by those obscene ezmoding warg packs means im just gonna feed.
Having said that, i don't mind and have fun fighting solo wargs or small packs. I have lots of respects for wargs that pounce me solo, because not only that's ballsy but also because those reckless wargs are more often than not the ones able to kill me 1v1 due to their agressive playstyle. Me myself i don't like blowing CDs if a warg jumps me solo, i take it as a personal challenge and the same as a 1v1 (Insidium once ##### me on a sprint pounce coming down from gv for example. the combination of sprint agressively used and his playstyle got me to half health before i could react).

On a side note: the best way to know how to solo a class is to do 1v1s. When i find creeps that beat me solo i usually flip and ask them if they would be willng to do a couple 1v1s so i can practice and get better. If im lucky i can come up with a rotation that ensures me a chance at winning to them, and if i not i just loose and ask for 1v1s again later on when i came up with something new. I don't know how to play a warg so i can't teach you how to beat a champ, but i am always willing to 1v1.


ps: keep in mind i think the same about burg packs. If there was such a thing, it would be as bad and lame as warg packs. Even though i think it's obvious, i had a silly discussion in OOC one time with someone that stated that burg packs would be the best thing but warg packs were lame.


edit: forgot to mention that i get the most fun when my chances of winning are slim, because it means i have to play to my best or otherwise i'll lose. that's the main reason why i love being jumped by couple of wargs, and hate being jumped by 9 because there's no chance for me there.

Originally Posted by Thomasborn

This is just me, not every freep's perspective.
I don't hate wargs, i don't hate. I deeply dislike big packs. Not the same when you group up with another warg like you to improve your odds, but rather when you get jumped by a warg pack where half it's members are r9 and above.
I remember this one time i got jumped by 3 wargs on the norbogs so i bubbled ready to stay and give them a fight. To my surprise, my aoe bleed went off to discover 6 more. I still tried to kill my target but obviously failed. My point here: a pack that big jumping on a SOLO freep isn't looking for a fight, it is looking for an easy kill and that is what bugs me. It would be the same (or comparable) to me running with a HoH cappy and a healing mini against solo creeps. Even if i was to fight Murhaja it would be looking for an easy kill.
Being jumped by a pack of low rank wargs means (in my case) that im gonna get 1 or 2 kills and then die, being jumped by those obscene ezmoding warg packs means im just gonna feed.
Having said that, i don't mind and have fun fighting solo wargs or small packs. I have lots of respects for wargs that pounce me solo, because not only that's ballsy but also because those reckless wargs are more often than not the ones able to kill me 1v1 due to their agressive playstyle. Me myself i don't like blowing CDs if a warg jumps me solo, i take it as a personal challenge and the same as a 1v1 (Insidium once ##### me on a sprint pounce coming down from gv for example. the combination of sprint agressively used and his playstyle got me to half health before i could react).

On a side note: the best way to know how to solo a class is to do 1v1s. When i find creeps that beat me solo i usually flip and ask them if they would be willng to do a couple 1v1s so i can practice and get better. If im lucky i can come up with a rotation that ensures me a chance at winning to them, and if i not i just loose and ask for 1v1s again later on when i came up with something new. I don't know how to play a warg so i can't teach you how to beat a champ, but i am always willing to 1v1.


ps: keep in mind i think the same about burg packs. If there was such a thing, it would be as bad and lame as warg packs. Even though i think it's obvious, i had a silly discussion in OOC one time with someone that stated that burg packs would be the best thing but warg packs were lame.


edit: forgot to mention that i get the most fun when my chances of winning are slim, because it means i have to play to my best or otherwise i'll lose. that's the main reason why i love being jumped by couple of wargs, and hate being jumped by 9 because there's no chance for me there.

Burg packs are scary.......trust me. I think Chup or one of the other long time burgs used to lead them. Scary...Scary stuff.

Well wargs are a ganking class of course ppl hate them... I hate them when I'm freeping even tho I haz one

2 wargs r5 grouped with a some audacity and than know how to take full advantage of shadow stance are probably more dangerous than 5 r6ish Reavers.

So when you see a pack of 4+wargs with high rank and audacity is kinda ezmode :P and if they are camping gv they just killing action before starts... Now wargs don't get targeted 1st because they are hated.. just cause usually they appear in melee range, they drop down faster and do lots of dmg.

Warg used to be a pack class, while burgs were a solo class (thats why ppl hated burg packs=OP).

Now that the pack class can solo and still packs a lot... is just zerg

Well is just my opinion tho everyone can play how they like.

Just remember u are a creep a diciple of sauron...u are evil if ppl hate you is understandable ... I mean if your own side hates you, that could be a problem.

---------

On a side note: Thomas, dude... when did ur english became so much better? XD

Originally Posted by GordoinWindfola

As a new PvPer I have been trying to soak up as much as I can knowledge wise and improve my skills. That being said I have noticed that alot of creeps/freeps dislike the warg class. What chance does a low level warg have? I have tried to solo different freeps and it is just a trip back to the rez circle for me. And if i get into a pack to have a chance all I hear is complaints. In raids I die alot...I charge in when the leader says charge, stick to the RAT, and am usually dead in a matter of seconds since it seems an unstealthed warg becomes target # 1 because of the afore mentioned hatred. So I am wondering...How would the rest of you nonwargies like wargs to play to make the Windy moors a better place?

P.S. I noticed you complaining about Wargfola packs..Thomasborn... in one of the threads. I have never seen you give me a get out of jail free card when I am by myself. I would solo you if I could but a)Champs are just OP in melee range and b) you are a really good champ and I know this because my main is a champ. So do you just want me to log on and let you kill me over and over and over again? Boy that sounds like fun...I would like you to roll a warg and then let me know how I should approach the champ class...I would really like to hear your insights on it.

Advice on killing Champs....
For good champs....
1. If you bought flayer stance with TP, use it.
2. Keep them slowed (if you are in flayer you have 2 slows) and bleeding, then kite.
3. Cripple/pounce whenever possible to try to get the knockdown.

For bad champs....
Use Shadow stance and faceroll.

Feel free to ask me for any other advice if you see me on

Originally Posted by jfindlay

Advice on killing Champs....
For good champs....
1. If you bought flayer stance with TP, use it.
2. Keep them slowed (if you are in flayer you have 2 slows) and bleeding, then kite.
3. Cripple/pounce whenever possible to try to get the knockdown.

For bad champs....
Use Shadow stance and faceroll.

Feel free to ask me for any other advice if you see me on

I like this guy.

Thanks for the input all. Thomasborn you seem to be a really nice person. Now i am going to feel bad the next time I have a chance to pounce you. I will definitely try to execute that strategy in the future Finmeister so thanks for the pointers. I guess I have played a champ for so long that running in and going toe to toe with everything in sight is just in my blood so you could say at times I play like a champ in a wargs body...it has been an adjustment because you just can't do that with a warg and be very successful. If Turbine would make it easier to start a new creep I would probably give some of the other classes a try but the comm cost for the skills is just way out of wack...cya all ingame.

Wargs have the tools (stealth and escape timers) to choose their fights and get a lot of freep attention when they show themselves.

Creep perspective:
So, they learn that they die often when they engage in dangerous situations, same as most creeps do.
So, they engage in these situations less.
So, creeps learn that wargs wont engage in situations that don't favour the creeps as a whole and are aware of them living whilst they die, often repeatedly. Those same wargs who lived gain plenty of the infamy gained as the class front-loads damage in a convenient way to gain credit on a kill and get out. The combination of surviving at the expense of other creeps and their consistently gaining good infamy annoys other creeps.

Freep perspective:
So, they timer away rather than face certain death. The death would have been attributable to a misreading of a situation through inexperience or a mistake, coupled with a margin of chance and maybe unpredictable changes in the situation. However, stealth classes have the best knowledge of a situation (they know where they themselves are) and thus more often than anything else it is the warg/s who put themselves in the situation that they're timering out of.
So, this is often interpreted, possibly to a degree greater than it actually is, as them covering their pvp mistakes that would cost most others a death by using a timer and escaping the situation. This annoys freeps.

The best part of it all is that warg players are numerous and some freeps and creeps both go out of their way to persecute or actively not help the players of the class without ever needing to consider them as more than one of the many. Therefore the feeling that the warg players experience of facing certain death is perpetuated because we do so (personally; consciously).

It's interesting, some of the same sentiment gets placed to the other classes with what I label 'escape' timers (sprints and hips') and my own is one of them, but the combination of the warg class being the only one with both types, inarguably the best types, and stealth to boot,.. along with the manner in which they're perceived (whether right or wrong in individuals cases) to not use them offensively, has given the perception of wargs you see today.

The fact that most of the warg players on this server really 'are' scrubs, just makes it worse.

We're getting some really good constructive conversations going on, I like it.

Originally Posted by JDCass

I like this guy.

/slap Cirone

So you could say that nobody likes the feeling of not having a chance when a fight starts. I know that it can happen on both creep/freep sides but the lack of balance for the creeps seems to accentuate it more to that side. I would say that the frustration/annoyance produced when a freep has been pummeled by a warg pack is very similar to what is produced when the veteran freeps farm the slug pits or hang around quest turn in points in stealth so they can get easy renown off of the greenies. Are they legitimately looking for a fight or are just looking for cheap points? I have been trying to level a defiler and with a few exceptions(Amandagames and Nyriens both let me go...thank you) I am instantly nuked even though it is pretty apparent I am trying to work on ranking him so he can be viable in a fight because I know there needs to be more creep heals on Windy. I am thinking I should have named him Bentover. So what do you think happens more? Freeps getting warg packed or greenie creeps being stomped by the veteran freeps? In both situations when the fight starts one side has no chance.

Originally Posted by GordoinWindfola

If Turbine would make it easier to start a new creep I would probably give some of the other classes a try but the comm cost for the skills is just way out of wack...cya all ingame.

I generally agree with that, but one must keep in mind that a freep pvping also went through 75 levels of grinding, plus all the jewelry grinding to stand a fighting chance, so it in turn is hard for both sides.
Also, you have a point about the pveing greenies stomped by freeps. In my case i know i've stomped many greenies questing, but after some time i decided to either let them finish their killing and bow or just leave. I think i should stop that though, but the lack of action sometimes is no good. Been working on my ba at those times though.

Originally Posted by Thomasborn

I generally agree with that, but one must keep in mind that a freep pvping also went through 75 levels of grinding, plus all the jewelry grinding to stand a fighting chance, so it in turn is hard for both sides.

Gg on failing to mention that pretty much all this grind - apart from moors armor pieces - is in the relative safety of out-of-moors PvE, and that creeps on the other hand have to farm ten times the commendations freeps need to be half as effective. And in the meantime, they risk annihilation by any half-baked freep that knows where the creepside quest objectives are located.

As far as the OP's question is concerned, it's simple. I hate the way stealth is implemented in this game, 'cause it makes no sense at all that someone can stand on wide-open ground while being completely invisible.

Also, it encourages even more of the cowardly play I love to rail against. While I'm not implying that all wargs and burgs are cowardly PvP'ers, I maintain that an overwhelming majority of them are. Wargs and burgs played aggressively have my respect, but then that goes for all classes.

The biggest problem with Windy wargs, when it's all said and done, is that there's too many of them. Frankly, while I have no love for the way most freeps play on this server, the fact is that they do so because of the the threat warg packs possess. Which brings me to yet another anti-warg point: wargs are currently the one creep class that can effectively be played solo on Windy, but hardly any of them realize it. Even the ones who are "solo" are not really solo... For more information, refer to the definition of "solo zergling" provided in this thread.

And finally, I'm gonna go ahead and conjecture that all the anti-warg QQ'ing on freepside comes from easymoders who can't stand that there is actually a creep class that can match one of their own potential-wise.

Originally Posted by CirdalvalSilnuviel

Gg on failing to mention that pretty much all this grind - apart from moors armor pieces - is in the relative safety of out-of-moors PvE, and that creeps on the other hand have to farm ten times the commendations freeps need to be half as effective. And in the meantime, they risk annihilation by any half-baked freep that knows where the creepside quest objectives are located.

As far as the OP's question is concerned, it's simple. I hate the way stealth is implemented in this game, 'cause it makes no sense at all that someone can stand on wide-open ground while being completely invisible.

Also, it encourages even more of the cowardly play I love to rail against. While I'm not implying that all wargs and burgs are cowardly PvP'ers, I maintain that an overwhelming majority of them are. Wargs and burgs played aggressively have my respect, but then that goes for all classes.

The biggest problem with Windy wargs, when it's all said and done, is that there's too many of them. Frankly, while I have no love for the way most freeps play on this server, the fact is that they do so because of the the threat warg packs possess. Which brings me to yet another anti-warg point: wargs are currently the one creep class that can effectively be played solo on Windy, but hardly any of them realize it. Even the ones who are "solo" are not really solo... For more information, refer to the definition of "solo zergling" provided in this thread.

And finally, I'm gonna go ahead and conjecture that all the anti-warg QQ'ing on freepside comes from easymoders who can't stand that there is actually a creep class that can match one of their own potential-wise.

There's a difference in cowardice and dying needlessly. I, myself, engage in fights that can assuredly award me with infamy. I used to not care in dying for the kill, but seeing freeps farm greenies for renown rubs me the wrong way in feeding them. I won't deny if I got a chance to kill freeps that's level 74 or lower, I would kill them with no hesitation, but it happens rarely and very few.

As far as too many wargs are concerned, I was here before anyone played pvmp (pretty sure anyways, all the really old vets and quit and left lotro).

Originally Posted by skippy454

There's a difference in cowardice and dying needlessly. I, myself, engage in fights that can assuredly award me with infamy. I used to not care in dying for the kill, but seeing freeps farm greenies for renown rubs me the wrong way in feeding them. I won't deny if I got a chance to kill freeps that's level 74 or lower, I would kill them with no hesitation, but it happens rarely and very few.

You do have a point, but not everyone farms yet still everyone get's facerolled by 12 wargs (yeah there was 12 this afternoon).

Originally Posted by skippy454

As far as too many wargs are concerned, I was here before anyone played pvmp (pretty sure anyways, all the really old vets and quit and left lotro).

You can see that, just by paying attention to your playstyle, incredibly different from the new wargs.

Originally Posted by Thomasborn

You do have a point, but not everyone farms yet still everyone get's facerolled by 12 wargs (yeah there was 12 this afternoon).

I haven't been in a large warg pack in years =/ But I do understand the inaneness of being facerolled, whether by 12 wargs, or half a dozen rks/minstrels/lms. I rarely group unless its with tribemates or some good friends.

Originally Posted by CirdalvalSilnuviel

Gg on failing to mention that pretty much all this grind - apart from moors armor pieces - is in the relative safety of out-of-moors PvE, and that creeps on the other hand have to farm ten times the commendations freeps need to be half as effective. And in the meantime, they risk annihilation by any half-baked freep that knows where the creepside quest objectives are located.

As far as the OP's question is concerned, it's simple. I hate the way stealth is implemented in this game, 'cause it makes no sense at all that someone can stand on wide-open ground while being completely invisible.

Also, it encourages even more of the cowardly play I love to rail against. While I'm not implying that all wargs and burgs are cowardly PvP'ers, I maintain that an overwhelming majority of them are. Wargs and burgs played aggressively have my respect, but then that goes for all classes.

The biggest problem with Windy wargs, when it's all said and done, is that there's too many of them. Frankly, while I have no love for the way most freeps play on this server, the fact is that they do so because of the the threat warg packs possess. Which brings me to yet another anti-warg point: wargs are currently the one creep class that can effectively be played solo on Windy, but hardly any of them realize it. Even the ones who are "solo" are not really solo... For more information, refer to the definition of "solo zergling" provided in this thread.

And finally, I'm gonna go ahead and conjecture that all the anti-warg QQ'ing on freepside comes from easymoders who can't stand that there is actually a creep class that can match one of their own potential-wise.

Please refrain from blanket statements thx... There are a few of us wargs who truly "solo" granted it is a dying breed...

As far as warg quantity, who cares if there was 12 wargs on? 12 of any class can "face roll" uneven numbers. If 95% of them are bad it shouldn't matter at all, Wargs are easily blown apart.

If we are going to start a warg haters club, then how about we also start a hunter hater club too. There are tons of them that come out and stand in their npcs (or exploit) stealthed, burn hot, and wreck all from safety.

Stop the QQ!!! Except Shap obviously he can QQ all he wants... Maybe if there was more fighting and less QQ the population here would stop bleeding out.(seriously considering transferring)

./end rant

I love wargs! One of my most favorite things to do is to play bait for a group of wargs. It is so much fun when a group of freeps charges to kill little old me and as they arrive at the target I burrow and as they stand there looking at the ground the pack jumps them and rips them to shreds

In fact if you ever see me in the moors alone you should probably assume that I am traveling with a pack of wargs and not attack me. I'm just trying to be helpful here and keep you from being killed.

Why all the hate on Wargs?
I like the warg class but I just dont have enough time to play everything. Id like to throw in my 2 cents on the subject from a reavers perspective because this has been a topic in creepside ooc for a bit now and i'll stay away from the lets not put too many wargs in the raid argument.
#1 How many freeps port into GV and automatically type x into ooc without even a ride out survey on there own of the action? How many freeps say they solo but really just ride strait (wait for a riding partner) to the main action areas stab/wtab/oc and never stray too far from the safety of momma raids teet? I know not all freeps do the above but some do because of the unknown warg totals. So if was gonna hate, maybe i cant sit at the bottom of GV hill without at least 2 or 3 freeps riding down and destoying me because they think they are gonna get ganked on the way down by a warg pack thats really not there so they need numbers to fight this. Too bad for me because all i wanted to do is just fight 1 freep. (keep in mind i'm putting myself out there to be killed with zero stealth)
#2 So with the same scenario, i finally get a single freep newb hunter riding down all by themselves and i lick my lips and charge! Gut punch, ravage, work'em down and..... Warg outta stealth kb. Hmmmm, i know, i know, its the moors...but i cant tell you how many wargs have done this unapologetically. pffttt hey its not CM right?
#3 Next scenario is the same as a#2 except this time its a freep raid instead of poor hunter, freep raid rolls down GV (because of the unknown)hill and destroys me. Freep raid lights fireworks on my body, dances, campfire, hahaha, corpsejump, fistpumps, and takes off...... by the way that same warg above just unstealthed next to me and mourned my loss. (feeling the hate yet) wait...just gotta tell, wow they just blew you up!!! (wargs please dont tell me how many times you have died as a warg and how life is bad, i cant even get outta a darn charge nowadays without dying)
I could go on and on but i think ya got the point. I still luv you wargies but you do affect game play. ps at the time of this post i have a rare star. hmmm what ya think about that ranked wargs? bet ya always have more must be nice to pick your fights.

Originally Posted by jfindlay

Please refrain from blanket statements thx... There are a few of us wargs who truly "solo" granted it is a dying breed...

As far as warg quantity, who cares if there was 12 wargs on? 12 of any class can "face roll" uneven numbers. If 95% of them are bad it shouldn't matter at all, Wargs are easily blown apart.

Stop the QQ!!! Except Shap obviously he can QQ all he wants... Maybe if there was more fighting and less QQ the population here would stop bleeding out.(seriously considering transferring)

./end rant

Not quite. If i ride down from gv to find a craid ill get rolled and start a freep raid the second i see those sexy numbers to have a heck of a fight. However, if it's 12 wargs, nothing for me or any freeps to do.
Having said that, you're right. We shall stop the qq.


edit: yes, i did get turned on by the thought of a 12 reaver, 12 spider, 12 wl or 12 defiler raid

Originally Posted by jfindlay

Please refrain from blanket statements thx... There are a few of us wargs who truly "solo" granted it is a dying breed...

I put the word 'solo' in quotes to clarify that I meant those who claim to be solo, but are actually running in informal packs. Peeps like you, Baph etc. weren't included, obviously. <3

The hate for wargs is this:

I can't use them in major raid setting, no fun at all
Trust me I would take any other class over a warg in a group setting.

Unless the whole state of the game has changed, then
ITS A TRAP!!!

./vanish >.>

Originally Posted by Alisre

Unless the whole state of the game has changed, then
ITS A TRAP!!!

Flayer stance in rvr :'(

It is just as I had feared, I must return, and cleanse this heracy! and then there shall be order...

right after I finish this bacon, nomononmoonmo

Originally Posted by jfindlay

As far as warg quantity, who cares if there was 12 wargs on? 12 of any class can "face roll" uneven numbers. If 95% of them are bad it shouldn't matter at all, Wargs are easily blown apart.

The thing about 12 wargs is that they're going to be stealthed. If a pack of 12 reavers shows up, a random freep will see them and avoid them. If he doesn't see anything around, he'll feel safe. However, if there are 12 wargs, you never know where they are, and most of the time freeps just assume they're surrounded by wargs even if they're not. So they hug NPC's and never leave, even if the wargs are gone. That's been my observation freepside, anyway.

There's nothing scarier to most freeps than a warg pack. It means they might actually die. *shudder*

Originally Posted by luapremylc

The thing about 12 wargs is that they're going to be stealthed. If a pack of 12 reavers shows up, a random freep will see them and avoid them. If he doesn't see anything around, he'll feel safe. However, if there are 12 wargs, you never know where they are, and most of the time freeps just assume they're surrounded by wargs even if they're not. So they hug NPC's and never leave, even if the wargs are gone. That's been my observation freepside, anyway.

There's nothing scarier to most freeps than a warg pack. It means they might actually die. *shudder*

What's funny is the same exact feeling the wargs get when there are track-spamming hunters waiting for a slip-up for the turrets to begin firing.

Hate wargs? Well I wouldn't say that I hate wargs seriously hate is a very strong word. I will admit that wargs tend to frustrate me, and I am guilty of posting in ooc 'WTS wargs" on particularly frustrating days. But rationally speaking wargs are just doing what wargs are designed to do, it is kind of silly to hate on a player for playing their stealthy sneaky class in a stealthy sneaky way. And to say to a player, hey why don't you do a bad job of playing your character so everyone else will be happy is especially silly, seriously a player is going to use every advantage they can get, because doing less than your best is also pretty silly. I think there are some people who hate HATE wargs, and others who say 'I hate wargs' but mean it in more of a they are frustrating kind of way. This is a game we come to where being opposed to one another is a built in part of it, I would like to think that the people who 'hate' wargs or want to sell them to other servers (/blush) mean it in the second way and not the first way. Frankly there are freep classes that are frustrating as well, so it is important to remember there are two sides to every coin.

As for killing greenies who are pveing for rank, I will admit I do it. But I try not to relentlessly stalk/farm them while they are just trying to rank. I will fight, once, and then move along. When I first came out as a greenie and under level I didn't get the impressions that anybody even hesitated to kill me. I figure if it is good for the goose it is good for the gander.

One more point on wargs. With the new flyer stance they are a lot more useful in a raid setting. Topple, packflayer(10 sec root that can't be int that doesn't let the target B/P/E), can stack 4 dots, have a couple of slows, can add a little healing, disarms, can take a lot more damage, and best of all they are visible!!!(so that puts them on the same playing field with the rest of the creeps Shap). As a matter of fact after reading all of this good feedback I plan on using flayer a lot more...maybe not while I am roaming on my own but when I am around the other creeps or invited to a raid. Seems to me some of those skills might be useful to a raid leader.

As Balug said, The answer to all this is Flayer. This is honestly the fix. I was just on yesterday and only used Flayer. It's quite nice, especially the root. (I just wish you would get inf. for the root but you don't even get credit for the kill since the root does not damage.) If more wargs ran in Flayer I could see a dramatic increase in action on both sides. It's true, No one wants to fight someone they can't see. It sucks but before recent updates that's all a warg had. Now they have been given the opportunity to fix this problem and some act like the stance doesn't even exist.

Sorry for the unorganized ramble but it's true. I made a warg looking forward to that stance and bought it as soon as I had the TP (;

Originally Posted by TylerM95

As Balug said, The answer to all this is Flayer. This is honestly the fix. I was just on yesterday and only used Flayer. It's quite nice, especially the root. (I just wish you would get inf. for the root but you don't even get credit for the kill since the root does not damage.) If more wargs ran in Flayer I could see a dramatic increase in action on both sides. It's true, No one wants to fight someone they can't see. It sucks but before recent updates that's all a warg had. Now they have been given the opportunity to fix this problem and some act like the stance doesn't even exist.

Sorry for the unorganized ramble but it's true. I made a warg looking forward to that stance and bought it as soon as I had the TP (;

Flayer is nice... In the right situations. I use it depending on class. Against heavies it is nice but using it against say a good RK is pointless.

Jumping from stealth then turning on flayer isn't very difficult.

Originally Posted by MaroonDragoon

Jumping from stealth then turning on flayer isn't very difficult.

Originally Posted by TylerM95

As Balug said, The answer to all this is Flayer. This is honestly the fix. I was just on yesterday and only used Flayer. It's quite nice, especially the root. (I just wish you would get inf. for the root but you don't even get credit for the kill since the root does not damage.) If more wargs ran in Flayer I could see a dramatic increase in action on both sides. It's true, No one wants to fight someone they can't see. It sucks but before recent updates that's all a warg had. Now they have been given the opportunity to fix this problem and some act like the stance doesn't even exist.

Sorry for the unorganized ramble but it's true. I made a warg looking forward to that stance and bought it as soon as I had the TP (;

It's harder than you think. Most wargs are in Shadow stance, turning off shadow stance puts both Shadow and Flayer in a 10 second cd. Doing that in mid-combat is usually not a great idea unless you can kite around waiting for Flayer to be ready to use.

Originally Posted by skippy454

It's harder than you think. Most wargs are in Shadow stance, turning off shadow stance puts both Shadow and Flayer in a 10 second cd. Doing that in mid-combat is usually not a great idea unless you can kite around waiting for Flayer to be ready to use.

In my experience most wargs who run flayer will stealth around stanceless, then pounce --> flayer --> eye rake and then get to business. The exception is 1v1s where this is kinda frowned upon atm, seeing how beast flayer wargs are.

Originally Posted by MaroonDragoon

In my experience most wargs who run flayer will stealth around stanceless, then pounce --> flayer --> eye rake and then get to business. The exception is 1v1s where this is kinda frowned upon atm, seeing how beast flayer wargs are.

This is what i do, even in 1v1s seeing as how most freeps use cds against me in 1v1s even though I do not.

Originally Posted by jfindlay

This is what i do, even in 1v1s seeing as how most freeps use cds against me in 1v1s even though I do not.

Mercy shouldn't extend to easymoders

Originally Posted by MaroonDragoon

Mercy shouldn't extend to easymoders

This.

10 chars.

Originally Posted by MaroonDragoon

Mercy shouldn't extend to easymoders

If I crush them too hard, they don't want to fight anymore

Stupid wargs!!

Originally Posted by DSBoomer

Stupid wargs!!

Ath! <3

10chars.

Originally Posted by TylerM95

(I just wish you would get inf. for the root but you don't even get credit for the kill since the root does not damage.)

I dont get credit for my Awesome debuffs and my heals so seems fair to me.