Thread: Well, that will be all, sirs.

OP... very sorry to see you go but absolutely agree with your sentiments. I enjoy the Lotro story and being for 40+ years an avid fan of the books keeps me around. Just not on my hunter

It's sad that some posters can't see through their own self-delusions and objectively look at the plight of the hunter <shrugs> but that's fine... as they say "you can lead a horse to the water..... "

OP, may your journey be joyous!

/bow

Originally Posted by aruthir

Just so you know, you cannot use clickies in the Moors.

Which is why I don't and won't participate in the Ettenmoors.
Once they started taking away skills (i.e. Desperate Flight) and item use (like clickies) it was game over as far as I am concerned. Why should I participate in a fight in which some of my skills/items/consumables are banned?

No thank you. Up yours ########!

Originally Posted by Silmahad

I have to admit I really like the new game mechanics with high or no caps at all

Of course there's a cap, the highest agi pieces now are 134 or 136 right? Add those up for every gear slot plus virtues, plus LI relics and stat legacies, and that's the cap.

Do the same for every stat. Its not like Turbine completely randomized their itemization. There's no 1000 or 1 million agi pieces floating around out there.

The current cap is somewhere just under 2500 agi, right? Instead of an "artificial" cap they applied a "soft" cap instead. But its a cap none the less.

Personally I hate it. I liked being able to cap two or three stats because it felt like you had a much more well rounded character that still achieved top tier DPS. Yes, eventually it meant you had nothing left to work toward, but that was okay; then I would just sit back and enjoy playing the game without having to grind anything.

Now I have to be a glass cannon that often has to throtle back the only utility I now have in order to not die. I run out of power quickly, or I need to include outside factors like blue pots and/or food or LM's, which I never did before.

Originally Posted by sevrid

Still, I don't think this justifies all the bitching and moaning that goes on in these forums. I rarely go to the Moors except for post-raid victory laps. It isn't nearly as bad as people are letting on. Even taking more deaths doesn't convince me. No repair bills, and the only thing you get from it is improved K/D ratio, which is meaningless, especially in a PvE-oriented game. There are no other advantages to it. It's a meaningless statistic. I would advise a rethinking of priorities to anyone who does attach much meaning to it.

As you just admitted you rarely go to the moors which means you dont pvp. So you dont really know how hard it has become for hunters. And its not the K/D ratio, its the constant having to retreat and run back to the battle only to get pounced by res campers from stealth. Cant track weavers in long burrow even with heightened senses traited (imo needs to be fixed, burgs can get +11 stealth and can be tracked yet long burrow is +10 stealth yet cant be tracked ). And if you track a warg they just restealth and pounce, besides they usually run in packs. Yea there are ways around them but still it makes it longer and harder to get back to the real action.

Anyway as to the title of this thread...
Sry to see you go. Ive always enjoyed reading your posts whether Ive agreed with them or not, they've always been informative. Maybe someday they will do something to improve the hunter like they keep improving every other class and hope you will come back and find it fun again. If not, hope you find fun in whatever you do.

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

Of course there's a cap, the highest agi pieces now are 134 or 136 right? Add those up for every gear slot plus virtues, plus LI relics and stat legacies, and that's the cap.

Do the same for every stat. Its not like Turbine completely randomized their itemization. There's no 1000 or 1 million agi pieces floating around out there.

The current cap is somewhere just under 2500 agi, right? Instead of an "artificial" cap they applied a "soft" cap instead. But its a cap none the less.

Personally I hate it. I liked being able to cap two or three stats because it felt like you had a much more well rounded character that still achieved top tier DPS. Yes, eventually it meant you had nothing left to work toward, but that was okay; then I would just sit back and enjoy playing the game without having to grind anything.

Now I have to be a glass cannon that often has to throtle back the only utility I now have in order to not die. I run out of power quickly, or I need to include outside factors like blue pots and/or food or LM's, which I never did before.

Then we have totally different opinions.

I like the current game mechanics, I like the itemization, I like the character evolution and I hated the old system with moral stacking (who has the longest moral bar in the 21. hall?...) and tons of senseless items...that was so old school EQ-like, sorry. I love the choice between moral stacking while losing damage and the other way round, I call that balanced. I like it, that mobs hit hard now and punish mistakes. I like it, that you have to watch your threat and I like it that you are able to go all out as a hunter now, if the situation requires it AND IF your tanks and champions and raidleaders have a clue about their class and skills (threat stance + challenge + engage anybody?)

I like it, that loremaster's power share, buff food and power pots have a sense again. My cook and my historican make tons of gold with this stuff now.

I never felt more needed as a hunter in this game as ever before. Bukot T2 without at least one, better two hunters? impossible. Acid Boss t2 without at least one hunter for adds? Not recommended. Fire and Ice T2 with only melee DDs? Possible, but why doing it the hard way? a ranged DD for RoF for slow poison cleansing and to get rid of the little spiders asap? get a hunter.

You don't have to have 2500 in your main stat to get the job done, 1,8k to 2k is more than enough and achievable. Draigoch or TO set, Limlight jewelry and a few now real good crafted items make it possible. Four 122 mainstat items you are able to buy with medallions and Draigoch is a fluff mob who can be done with one group...

I have seven lvl 75 chars with 2k+ in their main stat, I play 3 to 4 hours in the evening every day, maybe saturday the whole day til evening and sundays a few hours. Some may think that is much, ok, it is, if you level seven chars from lvl 65 to 75 and want them have equipped in the above described manner, but not if you concentrate on one or maybe two chars.

I even had the time to play SWTOR for two and a half month in january/february/march....my god THIS was grind in a totally overhyped, unfinished, unbalanced and boring game, that will probably die now with good reason.

As I said, it's not perfect. I would wish a real aggro dumb skill for my hunter and a group buff/debuff ability and I see the necessity for a survivability buff for hunters in the EMs.

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

Of course there's a cap, the highest agi pieces now are 134 or 136 right? Add those up for every gear slot plus virtues, plus LI relics and stat legacies, and that's the cap.

Do the same for every stat. Its not like Turbine completely randomized their itemization. There's no 1000 or 1 million agi pieces floating around out there.

The current cap is somewhere just under 2500 agi, right? Instead of an "artificial" cap they applied a "soft" cap instead. But its a cap none the less.

Personally I hate it. I liked being able to cap two or three stats because it felt like you had a much more well rounded character that still achieved top tier DPS. Yes, eventually it meant you had nothing left to work toward, but that was okay; then I would just sit back and enjoy playing the game without having to grind anything.

Now I have to be a glass cannon that often has to throtle back the only utility I now have in order to not die. I run out of power quickly, or I need to include outside factors like blue pots and/or food or LM's, which I never did before.

Someone who sees the game from my point of view too. I also agree with the OP.

I'm an analyst, I liked having a stat cap, analysing my equipment and deciding what gave me the best deal in the best situation. Now it's just a case of stacking agility whilst remaining survivable (not that easy). Luckily we have some good LMs in our kin to keep me topped up with power, however tanks find it very hard to keep aggro with high dps and threat management is not that easy (one aggro dump skill and the only other option to slow down dps or switch stance mid fight).

I've pretty much turned into a button masher who just has to keep one eye on the fight and one on the TV. I know if I take aggro I can dump it once, otherwise it's just counting down the moments until death.

I just wish we had some other utility, CC is possible, but not that useful as there are other, much better, CC classes.

I would go into some long essay about the class, but I won't. I think the game is slightly at fault too, end game content isn't that prolific, T2 ToO is hard, made 10 times harder by server lag back to Europe, but this is the hunter forum so I'll leave it at that. Hopefully the devs are working on some amazing new direction for the hunter to go in, I can only hope that's true!

Perspective perspective perspective...


Sometimes I guess its impossible to get through to people. I don't think there is anyone who PvPed on a hunter in Moria through Mirkwood who thinks that the class was hard. Its unfortunate that people can't understand that what a class once was, does not carry through to today. There's certainly alot of high ranked hunters due to it being pretty easy in the past. Rank doesn't mean anything except /timeplayed.


I do appreciate the PvE-only crowd who don't pretend to be PvPers. I agree that hunter isn't that bad in PvE. It a useful class. We can parse some solid DPS. Unfortunately some people just like to argue I guess. It really is foolish to make broad, general, & strong statements on unfamiliar topics.

Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr

Perspective perspective perspective...


Sometimes I guess its impossible to get through to people. I don't think there is anyone who PvPed on a hunter in Moria through Mirkwood who thinks that the class was hard. Its unfortunate that people can't understand that what a class once was, does not carry through to today. There's certainly alot of high ranked hunters due to it being pretty easy in the past. Rank doesn't mean anything except /timeplayed.


I do appreciate the PvE-only crowd who don't pretend to be PvPers. I agree that hunter isn't that bad in PvE. It a useful class. We can parse some solid DPS. Unfortunately some people just like to argue I guess. It really is foolish to make broad, general, & strong statements on unfamiliar topics.

For those who wish to argue and find out how good they really are..need only to head to the moors and do a little solo ( no camo killn and killn rank 0's -4's really dont count either (no offense creepers ) It wont take long for all the real weakness's of the class to be exposed or to find out how good you really think you are..

Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr

Perspective perspective perspective...


Sometimes I guess its impossible to get through to people. I don't think there is anyone who PvPed on a hunter in Moria through Mirkwood who thinks that the class was hard. Its unfortunate that people can't understand that what a class once was, does not carry through to today. There's certainly alot of high ranked hunters due to it being pretty easy in the past. Rank doesn't mean anything except /timeplayed.


I do appreciate the PvE-only crowd who don't pretend to be PvPers. I agree that hunter isn't that bad in PvE. It a useful class. We can parse some solid DPS. Unfortunately some people just like to argue I guess. It really is foolish to make broad, general, & strong statements on unfamiliar topics.

I understand the PvMP crowd and I see the necessity for some sort of survivabilty buff in the EMs for the striving solo hunter there (in raid vs raid we are pretty deadly for focus targets), who wants to have at least a chance to win a 1v1.

I just fear the consequences if Turbine touches the hunter to improve EM performance and nerfs some utility for PvE while doing this, maybe even unintentional. Don't say this never happened :-)

Originally Posted by therealwhizzy

For those who wish to argue and find out how good they really are..need only to head to the moors and do a little solo ( no camo killn and killn rank 0's -4's really dont count either (no offense creepers ) It wont take long for all the real weakness's of the class to be exposed or to find out how good you really think you are..

I'd +rep, but I get this...


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Originally Posted by Silmahad

Then we have totally different opinions.

I like the current game mechanics, I like the itemization, I like the character evolution and I hated the old system with moral stacking (who has the longest moral bar in the 21. hall?...)

It's cool. I can appreciate your point of view even if my personal playstyle makes me disagree with it.

Back in the Mirk days before ZC got a hold of the class, so from Book 7 until Echoes of the Dead, there was alot wrong with the hunter, but there was one thing that was really, really right, that in pve worked. In that period, similarly to today, hunters complained about their lack of role, the RK was the kin of single target dps, not the hunter. But I always disagreed with it. During this period, the thing that differentiated the hunter from the RK was, if you wanted sustained ranged dps, there was nothing better than a hunter.

We were sturdy, so if we pulled aggro we could handle it. We didn't run out of power. And while we usually couldn't boast the flashy crit numbers of the rk, when the RK was either kiting for his life with aggro, or waiting for their power pot to come off CD, the hunter just kept on trucking. For smart raid leaders, a well geared well played hunter's role was assured because of our consistancy.

Now? The difference between us and RK's? The hunter can... Die just as quickly, manage aggro just as poorly, and run out of power just as fast, while the RK's are still bringing the same amount of ranged DPS, but can also be used as healers, they can throw out Do Not Falls, they can remove dread etc etc.

Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr

I'd +rep, but I get this...


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I dont think you can get rep for making sense haha

And of course, while it will be great to upgrade our awesomeness with these starlight crystal thingies, it's going to make our aggro management/glass cannon issues even more acute.

Unfortunate that you have reached this point.

I agree with everything in the OP except dealing with GM's. Perhaps I have been extremely fortunate but my personal experiences with GM's has been exceptional. It is rather telling that there is still no official acknowledgement of your post and a bit discouraging. I know it's a can of worms for any Dev to get into these sorts of conversations but it's reached a point where some sort of acknowledgement might stave off an exodus the company neither wants nor needs. Best of luck to you. I am going to hold out because despite the flaws, this is still my favorite mmo and at some point, I am hoping that my Hunter, my only level 75 character so far (My Warden is almost there) will get the kind of attention he needs to not only be useful to teams but viable as a primary DPS role without losing survivability.

Cheers

I think the Professor said it best. With apologies to him...

'Hope on then!' laughed Zombiethor. 'Do I not know thee, Mithhuntir? Thy hope is to rule DPS, to stand behind every raid, north, south, or west. I have read thy mind and its policies. Do I not know that you commanded this RK here to keep silence? That you brought him hither to be a spy within my very chamber? And yet in our speech together I have learned the names and purpose of all thy companions. So! With the left hand thou wouldst use me for a little while as a shield against Guild Wars, and with the right bring up this Employer of the Devs to supplant me.
'But I say to thee, Anxious Mithhuntir, I will not be thy tool! I am Steward of the Class of Huntardion. I will not step down to be the dotard chamberlain of an upstart. Even were his claim proved to me, still he comes but of the line of Sane Developers Who Give A Toss. I will not bow to such a one, last of a ragged class long bereft of lordship and dignity.'

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

Now? The difference between us and RK's? The hunter can... Die just as quickly, manage aggro just as poorly, and run out of power just as fast, while the RK's are still bringing the same amount of ranged DPS, but can also be used as healers, they can throw out Do Not Falls, they can remove dread etc etc.

From a PvE point of view lightning traited Runekeepers are behind us in dps by a good bit (around ~400 dps, depends on encounter and the job that has to be done). They come close if fire traited, but fire traited does only the trick, if there is room for massive AE aka no CCed mobs and mobs have enough moral to build up this dps. In current encounters in TO range plays not only a small role. The larger range a hunter is able to attack there, makes a difference (Limrafn adds at Bukot T2 for example). I guess the range is an advantage in the EMs too, if you zerg from behind.

They have a dps advantage in the EMs, because they have the chance to dish out more burst damage with epic conclusion.

Their threat management is even better as hunters', because they have at least an ability to decrease their threat not only temporarily. As I said above, I would wish a threat throttle skill for hunters which doesn't work only temporarily. There is not a single reason, why we shouldn't have one, because all other classes have one.

For the overall utility topic I am on your side. In spite of the weakness in the dps department, the overall usefullness of a RK still outshines a hunter. As I said above, I would wish a group support buff/debuff for hunters.

...and as I said I totally understand the wish for a survivability buff for hunters for the EMs, but from my PvE point of view (be it solo or raid) I have to say, I do not need this for PvE.

It's not perfect as I said, but the class is not only playable in PvE, it's real good in doing the job there although its only a one trick pony. I remember times where we weren't even a one trick pony, but only a taxi.

There is reason for criticism, but not for hilarious outrage here...

Originally Posted by Aedfrith

'Hope on then!' laughed Zombiethor. 'Do I not know thee, Mithhuntir? Thy hope is to rule DPS, to stand behind every raid, north, south, or west. I have read thy mind and its policies. Do I not know that you commanded this RK here to keep silence? That you brought him hither to be a spy within my very chamber? And yet in our speech together I have learned the names and purpose of all thy companions. So! With the left hand thou wouldst use me for a little while as a shield against Guild Wars, and with the right bring up this Employer of the Devs to supplant me.
'But I say to thee, Anxious Mithhuntir, I will not be thy tool! I am Steward of the Class of Huntardion. I will not step down to be the dotard chamberlain of an upstart. Even were his claim proved to me, still he comes but of the line of Sane Developers Who Give A Toss. I will not bow to such a one, last of a ragged class long bereft of lordship and dignity.'

I laughed loud :-)

Originally Posted by Silmahad

From a PvE point of view lightning traited Runekeepers are behind us in dps by a good bit (around ~400 dps, depends on encounter and the job that has to be done). They come close if fire traited...

What numbers are you using here? What parses, I'm just curious. Either I'm just doing hunter wrong or you found some bad RKs. I play with some stellar RKs and they have put down some sick parses. Not sure if I've ever out DPSed one by 400 DPS, and certainly doesn't occur on a regular basis.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just looking for the data by which you based your statement because it is different than what I've seen.

Sad to see another hunter go. As someone who has a capped hunter and an RK, I find myself spending more time on my RK. My RK has rapidly become better geared than my hunter, and a lot more in demand and useful for raiding and instancing. I completely understand the opinions of the OP and hunter community at large.

Cerridan of Firefoot.

And, this is why, my Hunter, my main since Open Beta, now sits at lvl 71 completely neglected and I'm playing a Burg -- where the dev love is only slightly better but always comes with a nerf bat.


/hums "Pain and Pleasure" by Judas Priest

Well-said, Thrax. Ave atque vale; your posts are missed.

Having recently leveled a hunter to 75, I have to agree that the hunter is rather limited (the word one-trick-pony has been mentioned).

At least on my champ I have decent survivability when I draw aggro and i can transfer aggro, but as a hunter, hard time..

I found the leveling process rather fun and quick, but things like untrappable mobs, boss fights only activating when talking to them (close up) had a sour taste..

I didnt do much group content on my hunter so far, only limlight dailies and I weep when drawing aggro even in precision stance (perhaps endurance plus appropriate legacies, but otoh, sad that there is need for that) with sub-par equipment.. cant imagine what its like for a fullfledged hunter and more dps..
I find myself pressing one key for quickshot and an occasional bleed in between, just not to do too much dps and run out of power..

sorry to see you go!

I understand how you are feeling. My hunter is my main and I've played it for over 4 years. The only thing I really do is bankroll my other toons. I hardly ever raid any more. I could up my armour a little but other then getting a 1st age there isn't much to do. I think the hunter for soloing is the best of all I've played. Grouping is where the limit of the class is evident. The problem is there are many hunters but only a small percentage play it well. I think those that really learn the class and worked hard on it are the ones that are getting frustrated. It begins to rub off on my other toons and I start to get tired of LOTRO. I don't want to quit the game or stop working on my other toons but when I think about the time and effort spent on my hunter I do feel like taking a long break!

Oh well until then I will kill, gather matts and dream of that short period of time when the Hunter was nearly OP!

Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr

What numbers are you using here? What parses, I'm just curious. Either I'm just doing hunter wrong or you found some bad RKs. I play with some stellar RKs and they have put down some sick parses. Not sure if I've ever out DPSed one by 400 DPS, and certainly doesn't occur on a regular basis.

I'm not saying you're wrong, just looking for the data by which you based your statement because it is different than what I've seen.

It was Bukot T2 and neither the (5r/2b S:P) hunter nor the lightning traited runekeeper had bladebrother (only the group version) and both were on add duty and had to kill adds, where you have no burglar crit buff on the mobs (which lets burglars and champions really shine in this encounter, because they keep beating only on Bukot the whole encounter, no target switching and this leads to dps parces of around 2,1-2,2k+). Both had lvl 75 FA weapons and the dps difference was about 380 dps.
As I said dps parces are encounter dependant. At Bukot the runekeepers have the disadvantage of a lower range, a hunter is able to harm Limraafn adds earlier. Usually the dps difference should be around 200-250 dps, I guess. Runekeepers and hunters are crit dependant, but the runekeeper even more. One not critted or even not devastated epic conclusion really hurts their dps.

A fire traited runekeeper on the other side should have an advantage at Saruman for example. When the mezz phase is over and all get tanked or kited around in a crowd I guess an AE spamming fire traited runekeeper is a walking hell of fire on two legs.

Dropping back in to the forums to see what's happened with the class since Update 7 has come.... I feel all the more justified.

Now that I'm roughly three weeks removed from the game I can honestly say I don't miss it. Sorry Turb's, too many mistakes, not enough success.

Thank you again, all for bothering to read this post/thread.

As someone said yesterday "how hard can it be to stand around spamming penetrating shot" and then they concluded "not that you have any alternatives".

I enjoy a bit of CC, but can't use it effectively if I also wish to deal some damage.

For a non-capped hunter, there really is no competing with other classes. My hunters 50 and 66 (different servers) have not been allowed to run any group content after GB enough times to be able to learn how to play the content using the class.