Thread: Hunter Freeps weak.

Hi, I recently came back to lotro and found hunter's significantly weaker than the previous expansion, i could give wargs an ok fight before even though i lost most of the time, this expansion feels like even harder with wargs seeming as if they can eat hunters for breakfast.

I've heard a lot about balancing the game in favour of creeps but something better than hunter's art skills could be given to the freepside.

Creeps have been more than compensated by their extra morale now, so as something tangeable must be given back to freeps.

For Hunter's I would suggest a little bit of a melee buff so that we are not just squashed bugs in close range, and maybe rethink that hunter's art skill which is a waste on my quickslot bars.

Roll a different class if you think creeps are too hard.



Creeps from a hunters perspective:







Creeps from a minstrel/champ perspective:

Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr

Creeps from a minstrel/champ perspective:

Those creeps are violating the warranty on that slide. I use that set to get from my bunk bed to the floor and the manual clearly says 1 at a time.

Originally Posted by Borothewhite

Hi, I recently came back to lotro and found hunter's significantly weaker than the previous expansion, i could give wargs an ok fight before even though i lost most of the time, this expansion feels like even harder with wargs seeming as if they can eat hunters for breakfast.

I've heard a lot about balancing the game in favour of creeps but something better than hunter's art skills could be given to the freepside.

Creeps have been more than compensated by their extra morale now, so as something tangeable must be given back to freeps.

For Hunter's I would suggest a little bit of a melee buff so that we are not just squashed bugs in close range, and maybe rethink that hunter's art skill which is a waste on my quickslot bars.

You have the ability to 1-2 shot creeps, as well as firing on the move.

To Odin,

love the pics, yeah the hunter one is pretty on cue. To Stevo, i can't remember the last time i've one shotted a creep but it was way back when. But i guess it is a perspective, other classes deal more easily and combatatively with creeps whilst hunters are very timid because they are somewhat nerfed this expansion.

I hope the creeps can keep some of their buffs while the hunters get some compensations.

The Hunter's Art seems like a waste, as it seems so far.

Boro

Originally Posted by Stevo6

You have the ability to 1-2 shot creeps, as well as firing on the move.

BA can fire on the move too but only revenge does dmg and 20m range Nayh nyah nyah./sarcasm off

Roll a minstrel or a warden or a champ or Rk to completely dominate

Originally Posted by Tangaar

BA can fire on the move too but only revenge does dmg and 20m range Nayh nyah nyah./sarcasm off

Roll a minstrel or a warden or a champ or Rk to completely dominate

Regardless of what you think people do still want a challenge.

Originally Posted by aad0italian

Regardless of what you think people do still want a challenge.

Yes i understand and i accept this
Tbh creep pvping is a challenge.Thats why when you die there you just dont care.

Originally Posted by aad0italian

Regardless of what you think people do still want a challenge.

Then why the hell do freeps play freeps?

Playing as a F2P difficulty is somewhat near soloing raid content without armour.

Originally Posted by Stevo6

Then why the hell do freeps play freeps?

Playing as a F2P difficulty is somewhat near soloing raid content without armour.

I'm sure I can speak for myself along with 90% of the rest of the freep population. I am a freep. It's as simple as that. I have devoted almost 4 years of game time to my champion and my minstrel. I run raids on my freep so I can compete with my freep against creeps. I run the new content so I can compete. I grind reputation so I can stay up to date with my gear. Just like a creep can say the opposite, you guys devote your time to your creep, why would you give that up? Why would I give up my freep because people are incompetent enough to have to come here and ask why do I play my freep. That has to be one of the most ridiculous questions I have ever heard.

Hell, if you spent half the time playing the game as you do posting and complaining on the forums about how unbalanced everything is and boasting about GW2, you could be a competent player.

Regardless of how "gimped" a class is, a great player at that gimped class will still shine and be successful. Just because you aren't doesnt mean you have to come here and complain about it every post.

Originally Posted by Stevo6

You have the ability to 1-2 shot creeps, as well as firing on the move.

Yeah that's how you are supposed to roll. Always compare freeps to greenies.

Originally Posted by aad0italian

<snip> I run raids on my freep so I can compete with my freep against creeps. I run the new content so I can compete. I grind reputation so I can stay up to date with my gear. <snip>

Thank you for so eloquently making one of the Creepside points. Namely, that Freeps have the option of grinding through all the normal content to get their gear and have a rather broad range of gear to choose from. Don't like your current setup? No worries. Go grind some rep or some raids and you'll have what you want - probably within a couple days to a couple weeks at most. Sure, the Epic Boss might wax you a couple times, but you've got others to choose from.

Creeps, on the other hand, have only a limited number of skills, traits, racials, etc., to choose from, all of which require either grinding the same few quests over and over, or facing Freeps who've got more options and are often radically more powerful. Sure, an un-geared or under level Freep is a Wargie Snack with feet, but the range between Moderately-geared and Well-geared is quite broad.

Of course, LoTRO is not about the Moors and PvMP. It's about the main game content and the main game characters. Creepside players know that, or should. But it doesn't mean we don't feel the bias in favor of the main game characters.

Originally Posted by aad0italian

Regardless of how "gimped" a class is, a great player at that gimped class will still shine and be successful. Just because you aren't doesnt mean you have to come here and complain about it every post.

We agree on this. A great player can get the most from their class and really shine. Player skill, specifically with PvP, is a major factor in the Moors.

Of course, I got a chuckle reading the original post since the last time I was blown up it was by a Hunter in a matter of seconds (None of her hits were below 600 or so and about half of them were well over a thousand). Hunters may be the last "Squishy" class Freepside, but they can still hit like a ton of bricks.

Originally Posted by l4j

Of course, I got a chuckle reading the original post since the last time I was blown up it was by a Hunter in a matter of seconds (None of her hits were below 600 or so and about half of them were well over a thousand). Hunters may be the last "Squishy" class Freepside, but they can still hit like a ton of bricks.

See and that's what makes it so hard to change the hunter class, because they do insane DPS...from a safe distance. But changing the survivability without changing the DPS can really put the hunter class in an extremely advantageous position. I think hunters need more survivability, but in order to do it they HAVE to sacrifice DPS for it. Not so much that they cant 1v1 or are not effective in raids, but I think the distinction between survivability and DPS would be the most dramatic and noticeable with the hunter class than any other that would sacrifice DPS for defenses.

Originally Posted by aad0italian

See and that's what makes it so hard to change the hunter class, because they do insane DPS...from a safe distance. But changing the survivability without changing the DPS can really put the hunter class in an extremely advantageous position. I think hunters need more survivability, but in order to do it they HAVE to sacrifice DPS for it. Not so much that they cant 1v1 or are not effective in raids, but I think the distinction between survivability and DPS would be the most dramatic and noticeable with the hunter class than any other that would sacrifice DPS for defenses.

I agree with you on this. Though part of my last post touched on the gear Freepside. It's fairly easy to tailor your gear to the situation, often on the fly. If you can swap back and forth between +agi/+mastery/+critical and +vit/+moral/+mitigation on the fly, survivablity becomes a real-time choice.

I've seen a good friend switch their Hunter's DPS and Morale around on the fly, trading about 15% damage for a 25% boost to their Morale just by swapping around their Jewelry.

From observation, on average, a Hunter will win an artillery duel with a Blackarrow. That they fall to the only Melee only class Creepside ( seriously, the only one they have is one ranged option in an FM) at Melee range seems, well, more or less how it should be.

The main hunter problem is not DPS. Hunters have great DPS. However, that DPS is based on inductions which force the class to be rooted in position for more than 1s during the induction duration. In addition, hunter's survivability is fairly low in general, and by forcing them to stand still for the inductions makes for a lose/loses situation. Immobile + squishy does not lend itself to being fun or successful.


The class is very capable of fighting foes who are unaware and bad players. The class suffers when it cannot get the jump, but can still be successful against poor players.


The thinking of some creeps that they can get 1 shot with R7 audacity and at a minimum 10k morale is as comedic as it is idiotic.

Originally Posted by aad0italian

I'm sure I can speak for myself along with 90% of the rest of the freep population. I am a freep. It's as simple as that. I have devoted almost 4 years of game time to my champion and my minstrel. I run raids on my freep so I can compete with my freep against creeps. I run the new content so I can compete. I grind reputation so I can stay up to date with my gear. Just like a creep can say the opposite, you guys devote your time to your creep, why would you give that up? Why would I give up my freep because people are incompetent enough to have to come here and ask why do I play my freep. That has to be one of the most ridiculous questions I have ever heard.

Hell, if you spent half the time playing the game as you do posting and complaining on the forums about how unbalanced everything is and boasting about GW2, you could be a competent player.

Regardless of how "gimped" a class is, a great player at that gimped class will still shine and be successful. Just because you aren't doesnt mean you have to come here and complain about it every post.

My point was that you said "People still want a challenge" in which case, being a freep simply isn't. I see you have a minstrel and champ. Do you really have a challenge, unless your against multiple freeps? You also have 2 creeps, so even you must admit - creepside is a VERY HARD challenge, whereas freepside isn't.

Also, most freeps on BW now group for no reason. Literally. I see raids/groups formed camping a greenie reaver inside TA. Do they want a challenge? Grouping up, so not only are they OP they now outnumber them?

Originally Posted by l4j

From observation, on average, a Hunter will win an artillery duel with a Blackarrow. That they fall to the only Melee only class Creepside ( seriously, the only one they have is one ranged option in an FM) at Melee range seems, well, more or less how it should be.

If the BA pops MT, BA wins 99% unless they are really bad. What is this "only Melee only class"??? Reaver and warg are melees. Hunters also won't win vs defilers who are worth a grain of salt. Bad defilers, sure, easy kills. But the top defilers are nearly unbeatable.

Originally Posted by Stevo6

My point was that you said "People still want a challenge" in which case, being a freep simply isn't. I see you have a minstrel and champ. Do you really have a challenge, unless your against multiple freeps? You also have 2 creeps, so even you must admit - creepside is a VERY HARD challenge, whereas freepside isn't.

Also, most freeps on BW now group for no reason. Literally. I see raids/groups formed camping a greenie reaver inside TA. Do they want a challenge? Grouping up, so not only are they OP they now outnumber them?

I was expecting the "oh look at your sig, you have a champ and minstrel which means you must be an ezmoder." My champ is my main, has been for over 3 years. I have been playing him far far before they were even considered OP. Champions used to be the most gimped class in the moors PERIOD. Even when they weren't the most gimped freep class, it still took dedication to stick it out considering most people rolled ranged classes and switched away from melee. So don't even go there. Same with my minstrel, he was rolled long before minstrels were ever buffed to godly status. I can't control Turbine happening to revamp the classes I already have.

And for the record there are still challenges for myself and freeps in general. Spiders against melee is a big one, both flayer and good shadow wargs (but moreso good flayer). Defilers with traited flies, WLs who know what they are doing are fun fights and usually comes to neck and neck, and the occasional good BA. So take your creep goggles off and stop searching for the pity card from people. Creeps still have the opportunity to win a fair share of encounters they come across, it just takes a player who knows what they are doing.

Is it fair average freeps of certain classes can beat good creeps? No but for the time being we can't do anything but play with the cards we are dealt or just quit.

And to be honest creep side isn't that challenging. My defiler is fine to play, and my spider is more than fine, considering the upgrade they got.

Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr

If the BA pops MT, BA wins 99% unless they are really bad. What is this "only Melee only class"??? Reaver and warg are melees. Hunters also won't win vs defilers who are worth a grain of salt. Bad defilers, sure, easy kills. But the top defilers are nearly unbeatable.

It would seem your observations have been different. Moving Target has probably helped the BA's I've seen get into artillery duels, but they still tend to lose. It's a matter of DPS, where the Hunter has an advantage. I will stand by my observation.

And note the emphasis on the second "only," please. Reavers at least get Blade Toss, a skill responsible for more KB Ninja's than I care to count.

Yes, Commander Bunny, I'm talking about you! *wargie snickers*

Originally Posted by VincentVanPort

Yeah that's how you are supposed to roll. Always compare freeps to greenies.

I've been hit for 9k+ by 3-4 hunters on my server that I can name, while at R7 Audacity. Even if I managed to pop a Get A Grip! in time, I'd still be three-shot. Which, btw, is impossible because of the well-known animation delays that particular skill has.

So no, it's not just greenies that can be annihilated by a well-geared hunter.

Originally Posted by l4j

It would seem your observations have been different. Moving Target has probably helped the BA's I've seen get into artillery duels, but they still tend to lose. It's a matter of DPS, where the Hunter has an advantage. I will stand by my observation.

Actually, Seyz is right on this one. With my base Evade rating, plus the class trait Uncanny Reactions (+1,527 Evade rating), plus MT, my evade chance against ranged attacks stands at 85% for 30s.

As long as the hunter doesn't get an HS off (or, if it does go through, it doesn't dev), a Skirmisher BA will win this one. Even a ranged fight is skewed towards the BA in this scenario.

Heck, for this very reason, I never MT against a hunter in a 1v1. Unless, of course, they jumped me from stealth with a HS and got me down incredibly low before I could react.

Originally Posted by CirdalvalSilnuviel

<snip>Actually, Seyz is right on this one. With my base Evade rating, plus the class trait Uncanny Reactions (+1,527 Evade rating), plus MT, my evade chance against ranged attacks stands at 85% for 30s.

As long as the hunter doesn't get an HS off (or, if it does go through, it doesn't dev), a Skirmisher BA will win this one. Even a ranged fight is skewed towards the BA in this scenario.

Heck, for this very reason, I never MT against a hunter in a 1v1. Unless, of course, they jumped me from stealth with a HS and got me down incredibly low before I could react.

If you guys are seeing it differently, then it's entirely possible I haven't observed enough BA vs Hunter artillery duels to see MT save them from getting blown up. I'm more than willing to admit my own experience may not be representative.

Originally Posted by VincentVanPort

Yeah that's how you are supposed to roll. Always compare freeps to greenies.

Guess what the mitigations difference is for all creeps rank 0-9?

Nothing! Apart from maybe one armour trait (class specific), and corruption slots (in which nobody traits for mits anyway) there is no difference in mitigation or crit defence!

The only differential would be an increase in their finesse, their usage of pots, and class specific traits designed to work against hunters like the BA's uncanny reactions.
Class dependant of course, but their skills too. You probably aren't going to 2-shot a war-leader if he's paying attention. (I guess this goes into how well geared the hunter at question is, there's still hunters blowing up war-leaders as fast as anything else.)
BA evade goes to question if the BA gets jumped, again depends on the gear of the hunter and reaction time of the BA.

Right now, moors is probably a little worse overall than early MoM days. Goes for hunters too.

Must be terrible keeping up with that 10% extra health. Do you need to 3 or 4-shot them now? God forbid.

Turbine! We need a hotfix here!

Originally Posted by Stevo6

You have the ability to 1-2 shot creeps, as well as firing on the move.

Hahah funny how this line comes up.. what a joke..

Originally Posted by Untg99

Guess what the mitigations difference is for all creeps rank 0-9?

Nothing! Apart from maybe one armour trait (class specific), and corruption slots (in which nobody traits for mits anyway) there is no difference in mitigation or crit defence!

The only differential would be an increase in their finesse, their usage of pots, and class specific traits designed to work against hunters like the BA's uncanny reactions.
Class dependant of course, but their skills too. You probably aren't going to 2-shot a war-leader if he's paying attention. (I guess this goes into how well geared the hunter at question is, there's still hunters blowing up war-leaders as fast as anything else.)
BA evade goes to question if the BA gets jumped, again depends on the gear of the hunter and reaction time of the BA.

Right now, moors is probably a little worse overall than early MoM days. Goes for hunters too.

Must be terrible keeping up with that 10% extra health. Do you need to 3 or 4-shot them now? God forbid.

Turbine! We need a hotfix here!

are you refering to one hunter blowing up a high ranked WL?

If you are referring to focus fire ... well duh...

Originally Posted by CirdalvalSilnuviel

I've been hit for 9k+ by 3-4 hunters on my server that I can name, while at R7 Audacity.

So what you're saying is that between RoI and update 6, there were 3 - 4 hunters on your server doing 13k+ hits. You also seem to suggest this is a regular occurence yet dev hits are less than a 10% chance.

Originally Posted by Untg99

Guess what the mitigations difference is for all creeps rank 0-9?

Nothing! Apart from maybe one armour trait (class specific), and corruption slots (in which nobody traits for mits anyway) there is no difference in mitigation or crit defence!

Speaking of class armour traits, the ones Defiler and Warg get (+1238 armour).. are at rank0, and those are the single biggest mitigation increases any creep class gets before r10.

Afaik, the only other direct mitigation (outside corruptions, which nobody traits) increase Defilers can get is at rank8, the orc racial... +205 tactical mitigation (and +2 stealth detection).

When it comes to increasing Morale with corruptions, the HfD2 and HfP2 are available by rank2. In the specific case of Defilers, their +10% morale class trait is.. rank0.

The mitigation differences between a "greenie" and a rank9/10 creep really is rather small ever since creeps got their core passives autogranted at rank0.

Hate to have to tell you this, but strength sucks. Fleetness is the way to go. If you roll fleetness, you should be able to give most creeps a good fight or you'll get an easy win. Can't speak for MT BAs, but at least for wargs, it's hard enough against a good hunter when I get the drop on them. Luckily, most hunters aren't good :P.

Also, our "extra moral" is not really extra... it may be more than squishy freep classes, but the thing is, squishy freep classes hit 2x - 3x (if not more) harder than any creep class. I would argue that shadow warg has the highest creep dps atm and it is very possible for me to get destroyed by a good hunter even with having 3k - 4k more moral than them. The reason is that my hits hit for 600 - 1k, theirs hit for 900 - really high. I believe the hardest I've been hit by a hunter is around 4k (non-HS) and that is with r7 aud and having ~60% mits.

Originally Posted by l4j

It would seem your observations have been different. Moving Target has probably helped the BA's I've seen get into artillery duels, but they still tend to lose. It's a matter of DPS, where the Hunter has an advantage. I will stand by my observation.

And note the emphasis on the second "only," please. Reavers at least get Blade Toss, a skill responsible for more KB Ninja's than I care to count.

Yes, Commander Bunny, I'm talking about you! *wargie snickers*

When a BA pops MT, DPS has NOTHING to do with the fight from there on. A 75% evade chance on all of our ranged attacks besides HS is an end all for most hunters unless we get some seriously lucky hits.

As to Hunters 1-2 shotting creeps, go please troll another forums. If the only example you're going to use to counter our argument is greenies getting killed by an occasional spawn camping hunter, its time to use something else.

Reavers having blade toss doesn't make them a hybrid class. They are still 99.99999% melee and in a standard 1v1, if a good reaver is being kited by a hunter, he's got more problems as it is.

Originally Posted by Samus1111111

Hate to have to tell you this, but strength sucks. Fleetness is the way to go. If you roll fleetness, you should be able to give most creeps a good fight or you'll get an easy win. Can't speak for MT BAs, but at least for wargs, it's hard enough against a good hunter when I get the drop on them. Luckily, most hunters aren't good :P.

Also, our "extra moral" is not really extra... it may be more than squishy freep classes, but the thing is, squishy freep classes hit 2x - 3x (if not more) harder than any creep class. I would argue that shadow warg has the highest creep dps atm and it is very possible for me to get destroyed by a good hunter even with having 3k - 4k more moral than them. The reason is that my hits hit for 600 - 1k, theirs hit for 900 - really high. I believe the hardest I've been hit by a hunter is around 4k (non-HS) and that is with r7 aud and having ~60% mits.

Strength Stance and Improved Fleetness aren't mutually exclusive.

Originally Posted by TizianEnel

Speaking of class armour traits, the ones Defiler and Warg get (+1238 armour).. are at rank0, and those are the single biggest mitigation increases any creep class gets before r10.

Afaik, the only other direct mitigation (outside corruptions, which nobody traits) increase Defilers can get is at rank8, the orc racial... +205 tactical mitigation (and +2 stealth detection).

When it comes to increasing Morale with corruptions, the HfD2 and HfP2 are available by rank2. In the specific case of Defilers, their +10% morale class trait is.. rank0.

The mitigation differences between a "greenie" and a rank9/10 creep really is rather small ever since creeps got their core passives autogranted at rank0.

Uhhh. Do you realize Audacity exists? Or Delving Pots?

There is a world of difference between a Greenie and a r10+ Creep. The latter can and should have Delving pots up all the time and has max Audacity. The Greenie, obviously, does not and can not.

I think I can get my Warg to 50%+ Mits if I want in Flayer, iirc a Greenie Warg has what, 25% with Armor traited? Then factor in Audacity on top of that and the difference is quite significant.

With the correct gear and traits a hunter can shoot 10-14 penetrating shots (not etten set though)

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

Uhhh. Do you realize Audacity exists? Or Delving Pots?

There is a world of difference between a Greenie and a r10+ Creep. The latter can and should have Delving pots up all the time and has max Audacity. The Greenie, obviously, does not and can not.

I think I can get my Warg to 50%+ Mits if I want in Flayer, iirc a Greenie Warg has what, 25% with Armor traited? Then factor in Audacity on top of that and the difference is quite significant.

I admit that I didn't think of Audacity as a trait, maybe it's too newfangled for me.. so you got me there. (I kinda discounted it because "both sides get it" I guess, which was silly of me)

The Flayer Warg is the most extreme example (+2839 armor is quite a lot when the next highest amount is +1238. Most bonuses from traits are in the 200-600 range) and there are no other creeps that can get such a mitigation boost at r10 (or any rank) that I know of.

Technically a rank0 creep could have 7 audacity, because it's not rank limited just like freep audacity armour is not rank limited to the best of my knowledge. The commendations to purchase them while not ranking up would need to come from a maaaaassive grind of npcs (without questing) or, more realistically, your main high rank creep where you gain more commendations than you can spend.

Delving pots are a good point as well, +1238 armour at rank6.

Originally Posted by Dorothir

So what you're saying is that between RoI and update 6, there were 3 - 4 hunters on your server doing 13k+ hits. You also seem to suggest this is a regular occurence yet dev hits are less than a 10% chance.

There was an 11kish?(I struggle to remember this exactly, could be a little lower) Heart-seeker on a rank 10 defiler on our server by a hunter pre-u6.

Oh, by the way, he didn't even use burn hot.

Originally Posted by therealwhizzy

Hahah funny how this line comes up.. what a joke..

Only if the hunters in question don't have the gear which allows them to complete this.

Originally Posted by therealwhizzy

are you refering to one hunter blowing up a high ranked WL?

If you are referring to focus fire ... well duh...

Yes, I am, why would I mention focus fire?

Originally Posted by CirdalvalSilnuviel

I've been hit for 9k+ by 3-4 hunters on my server that I can name, while at R7 Audacity. Even if I managed to pop a Get A Grip! in time, I'd still be three-shot. Which, btw, is impossible because of the well-known animation delays that particular skill has.

I admittedly don't play as much any more, but I'm yet to see any hit beyond 6k in this last book, and I'm still only on R3 audacity. 9k seems very extreme for a single hit.

Originally Posted by CirdalvalSilnuviel

Actually, Seyz is right on this one. With my base Evade rating, plus the class trait Uncanny Reactions (+1,527 Evade rating), plus MT, my evade chance against ranged attacks stands at 85% for 30s.

As long as the hunter doesn't get an HS off (or, if it does go through, it doesn't dev), a Skirmisher BA will win this one. Even a ranged fight is skewed towards the BA in this scenario.

Heck, for this very reason, I never MT against a hunter in a 1v1. Unless, of course, they jumped me from stealth with a HS and got me down incredibly low before I could react.

With MT up, yes a hunter won't be doing much. But most smart hunters that I find around are also smart enough to go run around a tree or rock while MT is up. Low-cut (and the slow on quickshot if it hits before MT) is usually enough to keep me simply running around in circles until MT wears off.

Originally Posted by Elilreth

With the correct gear and traits a hunter can shoot 10-14 penetrating shots (not etten set though)

Losing out on 5 audacity, leaving us with R2 audacity, 5b/2r, needing our Imp. Conc. CD, Focus Pot. While the faron set bonus was nice for hunters pre-U6, now with audacity we're even more crippled, choosing between deciding for:

Faron set w/ Imp. Fleetness, which can easily be countered by a slow since fleetness doesn't stack over creep slows like champ sprint. Gives us a lot of spammable Pen Shots, but loses a good amount of damage from redline traiting.

Precision set, 2/2/2 set, or 4/2, when combined with 5b/2r gives us mobility, but limits our Pen Shot (adding -30% inc damage though).

Or one of the moors gear options from above, with a 5r/2b that gives us massive burst damage in the first 5seconds of a fight (provided we get the jump from ooc and aren't jumped first) and then hinders mobility as we need to do more inductions, which are slower from not blue line traiting.

More generally on topic, any one of those three options still leaves out our survivability factor, as we have a 4second induction for a 2k morale heal, which is easily stopped w/o NH or interrupted anyways. Sure we have store pots and moors pots, but you can't use that excuse since every other person could have those too.

Originally Posted by Zulubeast

When a BA pops MT, DPS has NOTHING to do with the fight from there on. A 75% evade chance on all of our ranged attacks besides HS is an end all for most hunters unless we get some seriously lucky hits.

Please see the rest of the thread. I stand by my original statement: I disagree that MT gives a BA a 99% win chance, and that does is overstated. But I'm not going to argue it with you when it's based on personal observations. Your observations and experience may be different. Accepted. Move along.

Originally Posted by Zulubeast

As to Hunters 1-2 shotting creeps, go please troll another forums. If the only example you're going to use to counter our argument is greenies getting killed by an occasional spawn camping hunter, its time to use something else.

I didn't say that anywhere in my comments. Please have the courtesy to reply to the right person's comments, OK? I get it may be hard to follow, but seriously. Don't accuse me of trolling when you're quoting someone else.

Originally Posted by Zulubeast

Reavers having blade toss doesn't make them a hybrid class. They are still 99.99999% melee and in a standard 1v1, if a good reaver is being kited by a hunter, he's got more problems as it is.

I did not say Reavers were a hybrid class. I said that Wargs are the only Melee-Only class, and clarified it when it was obvious some people read "only melee only" and missed the melee-only emphasis . Reavers have n>0 ranged attacks, Wargs do not. I did not say Wargs were the only Melee class. They are, however, the only ones that don't have any real ranged attacks - with the exception of one option in FM's. Some might want to count the short range AoE howls, but I don't.

So, to reiterate the two points.

1: It is my observation that on average Hunters win artillery duels with Blackarrows. Your observations may differ.

2: Wargs are the only Creepside class with no real ranged attacks. I did not say Reavers were a Hybrid class, I said they have Blade Toss which gives them at least one ranged attack.

Separately, again, I wasn't the one who was complaining about Hunters 1-2 shotting Creeps, so don't accuse me of trolling with that. Though I have been hit more than once for 5000+ Morale with a Heartseeker, which is almost 1/2 my Morale. 2 of those on a Greenie Creep would probably take them down. Whoever stated that it was possible for a Hunter to kill a Creep in only a few shots was stating a fact, not trolling.

Originally Posted by Zulubeast

As to Hunters 1-2 shotting creeps, go please troll another forums. If the only example you're going to use to counter our argument is greenies getting killed by an occasional spawn camping hunter, its time to use something else.

Don't you get it? The mitigation difference is so minuscule between greenie ranked to high ranked creeps that it doesn't even matter.
Unless, as a creep you are going to throw away your primary combat roles, you would never trait a full mitigation build in corruption slots.

The biggest differentiating factor is audacity, and there are still hunters able to 2-4 shot full audacity creeps that would otherwise be able to 1-2 shot creeps without it just like they were doing this before audacity entered the picture.

Of course, only a minuscule of hunters are even doing this, or perhaps even aware that this is possible.

Originally Posted by Untg99

There was an 11kish?(I struggle to remember this exactly, could be a little lower) Heart-seeker on a rank 10 defiler on our server by a hunter pre-u6.

Oh, by the way, he didn't even use burn hot.



Only if the hunters in question don't have the gear which allows them to complete this.



Yes, I am, why would I mention focus fire?

Cant recall? huh I would assume if this was a regular occurence it would be burnt into yur brain... it just seems everyone remembers the one in 1000 shot... gimme a break already...

Hunters combined with cappy buffs rk buffs an heals are deadly with focus fire and prolly what makes most creeps whine about em. If you whine about hunters in solo situations... you better quit.

Being honest if hunters got solid survive buffs and while being topped tiered (meaning gear, 1st age, Farron )didnt lose dps they would be too OP in a raid scenario, solo it might balance out though.. A balance would be interesting to achieve imo.

Originally Posted by someenigma

I admittedly don't play as much any more, but I'm yet to see any hit beyond 6k in this last book, and I'm still only on R3 audacity. 9k seems very extreme for a single hit.



With MT up, yes a hunter won't be doing much. But most smart hunters that I find around are also smart enough to go run around a tree or rock while MT is up. Low-cut (and the slow on quickshot if it hits before MT) is usually enough to keep me simply running around in circles until MT wears off.

Low cut has to get through MT's 50% evade check, your 40% physical resistance that is native, any additional resistance you've used your corruptions for, and we have to assume you don't have a slow cure pot or haven't branded, haven't prepotted a delving pot, or won't pop a crumbling insignia.

So yeah, Low Cut. lol

And while this hunter is kiting the bejeezus out of you, why don't you just spam hinder him or drop a snare or drop a fire trap around this tree or rock?

Originally Posted by ColorSpecs

Low cut has to get through MT's 50% evade check, your 40% physical resistance that is native, any additional resistance you've used your corruptions for, and we have to assume you don't have a slow cure pot or haven't branded, haven't prepotted a delving pot, or won't pop a crumbling insignia.

Speaking of mechanics like this, Latent Poison needs to bypass BPE to hit (and reduce max power), then it needs to pass resistance once to land the countdown to stun and after the countdown it still needs to pass resistance again to land the stun. And hope the target doesn't get cured or stun immune via pots or SoP:R or other skills etc.

Originally Posted by therealwhizzy

Cant recall? huh I would assume if this was a regular occurence it would be burnt into yur brain... it just seems everyone remembers the one in 1000 shot... gimme a break already...

Hunters combined with cappy buffs rk buffs an heals are deadly with focus fire and prolly what makes most creeps whine about em. If you whine about hunters in solo situations... you better quit.

Being honest if hunters got solid survive buffs and while being topped tiered (meaning gear, 1st age, Farron )didnt lose dps they would be too OP in a raid scenario, solo it might balance out though.. A balance would be interesting to achieve imo.

I remember that as being the peak heart-seeker I saw. They would average probably over 10k with burn hot. Some hunters saw regular one-shots. And, while that's likely not possible any more because of audacity, it certainly doesn't balance out because it takes 2 more seconds to kill something.

Combination of freep raiding skills and buffs used to maximum effect will make freeps invincible. There's really no point in stating something to a lesser extent. 90% of everything to do with freepside has imbalance written all over it.

While as interesting as it may be to give a sturdy DPS class survivability, I would rather them not waste any more time on needless changes. I would hope that be a fantasy that never get's played out.
DPS classes by design do not need anything more than some sort of basic survivability, which the hunter class specifically has continued to hold for a significant amount of time anyway.