Thread: The state of the reaver

Originally Posted by harman097

It wouldn't have to be a straight dps boost, but enough burst to potentially land DS and get the inc healing debuff might do it. Unfortunately, you're probly right, regardless. Maybe an inc healing debuff on severing strike or something, too.

I hate playing a class that has absolutely no chance against certain other classes, regardless of whether you do everything perfect and they don't. I realize this game isn't balanced with soloing in mind, but that doesn't change the fact that I'd like to see it happen.

i like the severing strike idea. however the debuff would need to be rather short i think, due to it being useable at any point with no pre-req of sorts(other than it actually landing of course.

i agree with the second part too. i have actually been pve'ing a lot lately, leveling up alts and gearing my 75's. i despise pve, despite having multiple 75's :/. sadly, the only way i stand any chance even against half decent minstrels, is if they dont heal or are undergeard and i can burst them below half before they can react.

Originally Posted by Lendas

Enter: The Hunter!

if my hunter had decent gear, i would be playing him out there instead of my reaver. and yes im solo 95% of the time.

Originally Posted by Daec

I remember the days of seeing reavers charge in for me when i hit 50% morale and thinking wow this isn't going to turn out well.


Now i just think "Aww thats cute".

LOL that was perfect!

Originally Posted by 0987654321

if my hunter had decent gear, i would be playing him out there instead of my reaver. and yes im solo 95% of the time.

well you don't now do you? try soloing on Hunter. go out there and kill an R8 creep. yea its that easy..........



/trolloff

really its not that easy. if a Hunter encounters Any med-high ranked creep with a brain when they are not prepared then they WILL DIE regardless of anything else. you thinkz reavers have it hard that they cant solo a mini? try being hunter for a day and going down GV hill to solo a R9 wargs that have all damage proc and a few pots..... go ahead. get pounced and lets see if a hunter can win.


oh and if you REALLY want to compare who is helpless in a fight vs a single class of the opposing side:

BA vs Hunter: lose/lose/lose situation.

Originally Posted by Muzzard

I think we are in a really good place right now however since the update to freep mitigations with Isengard it does take a lot longer to kill them, a slight damage boost would be appreciated.

Having said what I did experienced minstrels and wardens do seem impossible to beat if they use every or some vital skills in their arsenal.

Define good place? You must be on a very incompetant server if you only struggle with wardens and minstrels, it's impossible to lose on any class vs a reaver. It's probably most difficult to win vs a reaver as a hunter but still easily done with a brand/pots. I got a well geared burglar and rk and I simply do not need to use cds on my burglar to kill any reaver and easily have 2-3k morale left out of 7k, mainly dps build, I don't even have FA or clasps for the gold stuff. On my rk I might occasionaly lose vs a rvr in my pve full dps build (6k no audacity) but then again I could just swap to audacity gear and 8k morale and make my prelude and writ outheal entire rvr dps by trololol kite/slowcure lolocrit bai reavur.

Could make a list of any freep class beating a reaver with complete ease but I guess that's not the point.

What I'm trying to say, We do need a massive buff mainly to dps. Also a massive boost to mitigations I'm not on my reaver atm but I think I've got ~24/5% mits on my reaver without the dof armour pot, I got 34% on my rk pvp specced... (tactical mits).

On a side note, I think it's sad but true that ever since reavers were made to be F2P they are intentionally weaker for $$$ purposes.

On another side note, I wonder if devs/gms/mods actually follow the content that is being discussed and would actually ask for player feedback. Not to be annoying or anything but this might be pointless since these kind of threads have come and gone for a while and OPness shifts everytime.

Originally Posted by 'Ongbyrz.

Define good place? You must be on a very incompetant server if you only struggle with wardens and minstrels, it's impossible to lose on any class vs a reaver. It's probably most difficult to win vs a reaver as a hunter but still easily done with a brand/pots. I got a well geared burglar and rk and I simply do not need to use cds on my burglar to kill any reaver and easily have 2-3k morale left out of 7k, mainly dps build, I don't even have FA or clasps for the gold stuff. On my rk I might occasionaly lose vs a rvr in my pve full dps build (6k no audacity) but then again I could just swap to audacity gear and 8k morale and make my prelude and writ outheal entire rvr dps by trololol kite/slowcure lolocrit bai reavur.

Could make a list of any freep class beating a reaver with complete ease but I guess that's not the point.

What I'm trying to say, We do need a massive buff mainly to dps. Also a massive boost to mitigations I'm not on my reaver atm but I think I've got ~24/5% mits on my reaver without the dof armour pot, I got 34% on my rk pvp specced... (tactical mits).

.

Speaking from the experience on my server - Snowbourn.

We can get in there and we can sure as hell get kills, I think we are in a good place especially compared to pre the update. Resilience has helped a great deal.. so has audacity seeing as most freeps with isenagrd hit way to much, dying rage is still great regardless what some of you may think.

Remember the times when even the brand didn't make us immune to slows (hard times then however I still prefer Moria times)? Now we can simply flick it on then wa-la, same with the use of resilience.

I'm not saying we can't get killed, we can.. but we can also kill freeps even in the mist of other freeps if we get it right, I learned something quite helpful from my server, this is ultimately my game, we shall not play their game.

I would actually love to spar your burgler who uses everything.. you'll see me running up to a tree or a rock or just in distance while slowing you and buying my time before I go for you. You may win, I may win, that's one fight down I look forward to many more if only we got the opportunity.

You must admit as a high ranked reaver even with our cds used at the right time prove extremely effective and the majority of the time I personally will get a kill from them. You don't exactly go for the warden or guard or even champ if you see a hunter there, you dust the closest and prepare to kill that hunter, do you're best to damage it as best you can. Even if we're out numbered, use the environment, like I said I'm not saying we can't die but we sure as hell can get kills solo or not that is why I think we are in a good place and mainly because of the changes to resilience and the brands.

You can not compare a freep who uses absolutely everything anyway purely because when you're out there in the open and half the time you ambush them they are unprepared (don't get me wrong there are people who go looking for these fights but the majority tend to just try get away).

From my experience it's a freeps incentive to survive and then later on come back with more.

I'm using 4 tactical corruptions and 2 +10% moral ones most of the time due to hunters using fire oils and there being so many minstrels and rks around, having said that I quite often swap to 4 physical instead of the 4 tactical and mess around with my class ones when I see either a burgler group or just generally more champs/melee.

But don't get me wrong, I would love a damage boost.

Also from my experience we do have very experienced freeps on our server, creeps too but fights can go either way. We have respected players on our server, the type who won't use everything because they want a challenge.

Bla bla bla, maybe this was a pointless post, I'll just say it's once more I think we are in a good place because we can kill things.

Originally Posted by Muzzard

dying rage is still great regardless what some of you may think.

I would actually love to spar your burgler who uses everything.. you'll see me running up to a tree or a rock or just in distance while slowing you and buying my time before I go for you. You may win, I may win, that's one fight down I look forward to many more if only we got the opportunity. .

with dying rage, the biggest gripe i have it with(and i would think others), is that i tend to get 1 or 2 shot by RK's/mini's/LM's, as the morale threshold to use it is so low. its awesome against melee's, less so against tact class's.

also agree with the burgs that pop CD's. even at R7 they are fun fights considering how bad most are :P

Yes I suppose but I'm not saying you will always get a kill just by clicking it, sometimes I know I wont get a kill so I wont use it and at least then it's ready for my next charge, most of the time I do get a kill, I look for a place to get out of line of sight if needed, even run around a big boulder and back again just to go for my target.

yea, shouldnt expect to get a kill everytime. if a target is below half and i get DS off before hitting it, i have a decent chance, but often times i use it just to see how much i can do.

Originally Posted by Muzzard

Speaking from the experience on my server - Snowbourn.

We can get in there and we can sure as hell get kills, I think we are in a good place especially compared to pre the update. Resilience has helped a great deal.. so has audacity seeing as most freeps with isenagrd hit way to much, dying rage is still great regardless what some of you may think.

Remember the times when even the brand didn't make us immune to slows (hard times then however I still prefer Moria times)? Now we can simply flick it on then wa-la, same with the use of resilience.

I'm not saying we can't get killed, we can.. but we can also kill freeps even in the mist of other freeps if we get it right, I learned something quite helpful from my server, this is ultimately my game, we shall not play their game.

I would actually love to spar your burgler who uses everything.. you'll see me running up to a tree or a rock or just in distance while slowing you and buying my time before I go for you. You may win, I may win, that's one fight down I look forward to many more if only we got the opportunity.

You must admit as a high ranked reaver even with our cds used at the right time prove extremely effective and the majority of the time I personally will get a kill from them. You don't exactly go for the warden or guard or even champ if you see a hunter there, you dust the closest and prepare to kill that hunter, do you're best to damage it as best you can. Even if we're out numbered, use the environment, like I said I'm not saying we can't die but we sure as hell can get kills solo or not that is why I think we are in a good place and mainly because of the changes to resilience and the brands.

You can not compare a freep who uses absolutely everything anyway purely because when you're out there in the open and half the time you ambush them they are unprepared (don't get me wrong there are people who go looking for these fights but the majority tend to just try get away).

From my experience it's a freeps incentive to survive and then later on come back with more.

I'm using 4 tactical corruptions and 2 +10% moral ones most of the time due to hunters using fire oils and there being so many minstrels and rks around, having said that I quite often swap to 4 physical instead of the 4 tactical and mess around with my class ones when I see either a burgler group or just generally more champs/melee.

But don't get me wrong, I would love a damage boost.

Also from my experience we do have very experienced freeps on our server, creeps too but fights can go either way. We have respected players on our server, the type who won't use everything because they want a challenge.

Bla bla bla, maybe this was a pointless post, I'll just say it's once more I think we are in a good place because we can kill things.

+rep for having the patience to get a reaver to tyrant and for the info

Originally Posted by Muzzard

Speaking from the experience on my server - Snowbourn.

Great post we can get kills indeed, and on a 1v1 bases with the resilence and stuff reaver is on a good way. (The days when we didn't have charge/charge speed could be slowed etc, but if you pop resilence and a freep was doing an induction you will be slowed, same counts for using a brand, if you time your slow well, even if a freep/creep uses store brand u can have them slowed -it's kinda going to the extreme but this should be fixxed).

But my point was we have to do way much effort compared to other classes to get a kill. Especially compared to freeps like you said most of em don't even need or want to use their cds. I would like that our cds could be more of the ''oh darn'' savers and that we are a bit stronger overall.

On evernight freeps only zergball and theres rarely a group without a minstrel, I simply cannot get a solo kill in the zerg like I used to be able to in MoM/SoM I need to be teamed with Lepakko (spider) or a warg in general to be able to get a suicide kill simply to burst a target below 50% morale to get ds off, and then the healing debuff gets resisted most of the time. DOH.

I retired my reaver and rolled a warg r6 now, and I have to say it's already easier on my r6 than my r13 reaver, idk whether I should devs be grateful for boosting warg or >insert bad word(s)< for ''nerfing'' reaver/not scaling reaver dps since SoM (due audacity I do way lower dps than I used to do in SoM, even without it my dps isn't much higher than it used to be eventhough freeps got a massive dps increase).

The reaver should have a lot more dps than the warg, full stop. Wargs are invisible, thats the trade off. I'm saying boost reavers, not nerf wargs. Then there might be less wargs around too.

Originally Posted by 'Ongbyrz.

But my point was we have to do way much effort compared to other classes to get a kill. Especially compared to freeps like you said most of em don't even need or want to use their cds.


I retired my reaver and rolled a warg r6 now, and I have to say it's already easier on my r6 than my r13 reaver, idk whether I should devs be grateful for boosting warg or >insert bad word(s)< for ''nerfing'' reaver/not scaling reaver dps since SoM (due audacity I do way lower dps than I used to do in SoM, even without it my dps isn't much higher than it used to be eventhough freeps got a massive dps increase).

Yes I couldn't agree more. I'm not really one to talk about balance because from day one I realised it didn't exist in the morres and had to learn to adapt, after reading all your posts and speaking to some friends here on creep I still think ever since Isengard it has been pretty much one sided in the favour of freeps. We are strong, we have the Dark Lord on our side, we can strike fear into our enemies with our superior knowledge of them.

I wouldn't advice hoping for Turbine to make changes we actually want, because let's face it they have bullroarer and regardless what we think about new recent updates they try on there they still go forward with what they are doing. Best thing I think is just make a petition thread or just work up some tactics with your fellow creeps, freeps can die, that part is inevitable. Now it's time for action.

just thought i would throw this out there what about making wrath a toggle and a blanked dps increase of 20-30%?
discuss

Originally Posted by Muzzard

Bla.

This has nothing to do with your post, but HOW DID YOU MANAGE TO HIT R15 IN ONE YEAR!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

reavers will get get their dps boosted in ror so no worries, they do comparable if not more dps then bas now

Originally Posted by thabos

reavers will get get their dps boosted in ror so no worries, they do comparable if not more dps then bas now

A lot more than BAs, even without the Wrath buff. It's been tested on dummies and Reaver did 40% more DPS than a BA in a minute-long fight.
But then again, Spiders and Wargs will do a lot more than even Reavers (we're talking 29% for Wargs and 46% for Weavers higher than the Reaver here).

Which makes me worry about the BA.
The squishy DPS class on creep side has the lowest DPS of all the classes? (except the 2 healers)
Not a great idea by the devs.

Originally Posted by BirdofHermes

A lot more than BAs, even without the Wrath buff. It's been tested on dummies and Reaver did 40% more DPS than a BA in a minute-long fight.
But then again, Spiders and Wargs will do a lot more than even Reavers (we're talking 29% for Wargs and 46% for Weavers higher than the Reaver here).

Which makes me worry about the BA.
The squishy DPS class on creep side has the lowest DPS of all the classes? (except the 2 healers)
Not a great idea by the devs.

Are you saying that weavers have 86% more dps than BAs in beta atm? Are you doing single target parses (no aoe dots on the other dummies)? I honestly find this hard to believe... Plus, SSs are your friend . So, SSs if possible when talking about dps parses.

Originally Posted by Lendas

well you don't now do you? try soloing on Hunter. go out there and kill an R8 creep. yea its that easy..........

/trolloff

really its not that easy. if a Hunter encounters Any med-high ranked creep with a brain when they are not prepared then they WILL DIE regardless of anything else. you thinkz reavers have it hard that they cant solo a mini? try being hunter for a day and going down GV hill to solo a R9 wargs that have all damage proc and a few pots..... go ahead. get pounced and lets see if a hunter can win.


oh and if you REALLY want to compare who is helpless in a fight vs a single class of the opposing side:

BA vs Hunter: lose/lose/lose situation.

Ulgot my hunter geared (might not have had audacity gear, but I did ok) and solo'ing wasn't too bad. Sure, if a warg found me and had audacity, I was pretty screwed, but I didn't do terribly especially considering I didn't have any audacity. I'm
Not even good. If you want to see a good hunter, come to brandy and watch daymen fight.

Oh, and hunters don't die regardless of what you do to any mid/high ranked creep, just those that suck. Although none of this will matter come RoR, as soloing will be non-existant

Originally Posted by Samus1111111

Are you saying that weavers have 86% more dps than BAs in beta atm? Are you doing single target parses (no aoe dots on the other dummies)? I honestly find this hard to believe... Plus, SSs are your friend . So, SSs if possible when talking about dps parses.

No, I'm saying Weavers do 104% more damage than BAs.

It's called maths;
140% of 100 (BA) is 140. (= Reaver damage)
146% of 140 (Reaver) is 204,4 (Weaver).


And yes, single target.
Weaver damage went up significantly, but the factor which makes their DPS so incredibly high is that their DoTs now stack, including Tainted Kiss (a bit like the old BA fire dot stacking).
Tainted Kiss = 6s CD, 1k initial hit and 400 every 3 secs for 30 secs after.
Keep stacking those and your DPS goes through the roof.


Not sure if I'm allowed to be posting the SS since I didn't post them in the first place. Maybe I should ask permission from who did.

Originally Posted by BirdofHermes

No, I'm saying Weavers do 104% more damage than BAs.

It's called maths;
140% of 100 (BA) is 140. (= Reaver damage)
146% of 140 (Reaver) is 204,4 (Weaver).


And yes, single target.
Weaver damage went up significantly, but the factor which makes their DPS so incredibly high is that their DoTs now stack, including Tainted Kiss (a bit like the old BA fire dot stacking).
Tainted Kiss = 6s CD, 1k initial hit and 400 every 3 secs for 30 secs after.
Keep stacking those and your DPS goes through the roof.


Not sure if I'm allowed to be posting the SS since I didn't post them in the first place. Maybe I should ask permission from who did.

lol, it's summer, I don't do math :P

Do all the spider's DoTs stack with each other and is there a limit to how high they stack (aka. can you stack 5 TK or is it capped at 3 or something)?

Originally Posted by Samus1111111

lol, it's summer, I don't do math :P

Do all the spider's DoTs stack with each other and is there a limit to how high they stack (aka. can you stack 5 TK or is it capped at 3 or something)?

Difficult to say on dummies since they reset so often.
Tell you what, when BR is back online, I'll try it myself on an OP boss or something.

Originally Posted by BirdofHermes

Difficult to say on dummies since they reset so often.
Tell you what, when BR is back online, I'll try it myself on an OP boss or something.

Thanks

Originally Posted by Samus1111111

lol, it's summer, I don't do math :P

Do all the spider's DoTs stack with each other and is there a limit to how high they stack (aka. can you stack 5 TK or is it capped at 3 or something)?

The only change to weaver dots stacking are:

1. Mephetic kiss and tainted kiss now stack (they used to overwrite eachother).
2. The damage portion of poison spray now stacks between spiders.

This is actually a small component of the overall spider damage increase. We already use mephetic on cooldown in our damage rotations, so we're only gaining Average DoT Damage per 3 seconds worth of DPS. I don't have a screeny of the damage to look at here (at work), but this is going to be less than 100dps difference. I would guess it's in the 70-80 range, depending on the target's mitigations.

Bigger factors are:

1. Piercing attack's DoT was changed to acid damage, and the trait that boosted this attack has increased to +50%
2. The DoT on Poison spray was changed to acid damage.
3. Damage scaling from each acid pip was doubled (it used to be +3% damage per pip for 15% total at 5 pips, it is now +6% per pip for 30% at 5 pips).
4. Damage scaling from each acid pip now effects all spider skills (before, some did not scale with pip increase).

This causes pip management to have a much higher influence on overall damage output. It also rewards spiders for being in melee range. We do noticably higher damage when able to work shadow's bite/piercing attack and drink deep into our rotations.

Speaking of drink deep: this thing can really hurt on a dev crit.

One thing to keep in mind:

The ranged pet on the test server attacks every second. On live it attacks about every 10 seconds. The devs do NOT know what causes this, or if it is fixable. Improving server performance may fix it, but there's no knowing. This is a factor, because on the test server the ranged hatchling hits like a TRUCK. Its ranged auto-attack can crit into the 1400's. This is making ranged pet-using spiders have a lot more damage on the test server than they likely will on live.