Thread: HoH capstone needs improvement

I've been thinking a lot about the HoH capstone lately, and I honestly feel it's lacking something. The VS HoT is pretty good, but it's not enough to make me trait it any longer aside from a few solo situations. In PvP it's even worse due to the very small range it has if your group isn't right on top of each other. In ToO boss fights are so short you're only going to use it twice in most situations aside from F/F and Saruman.

The extra 10% healing is also underwhelming. I can trait FB, throw on a revealing mark, hit To Arms and probably end up giving (at least the DPS classes) more than 10% extra healing via the 10% extra damage everyone who isn't my main BB is doing.

Personally, considering the way Turbine is designing content to be a constant DPS race, I'm finding that I'm even traiting IDOME over it. Extra morale/power, extra damage (both mastery and crit), extra mitigations, etc, regardless of how slight it is. In other words, I've found I can heal just as well, if not better, without the HoH capstone. Traiting it has started to feel like I'm losing something more than what I gain with it.

I'd like to hear what other Captains think about it. Do you like it as is? Do you think it needs improving? If so, what would you change?

Myself - I've been thinking about the following changes to HoH:

• Option A: Makes WoC usable on self. Even at 50% effectiveness. Captains need a reliable self-heal, imo.
• Option B: Increase the 10% extra healing to 25%. Simple enough.
• Option C: Both?

With Option A, Captains would get a pretty reliable self-heal that doesn't require a defeat response, a crit, or isn't a mediocre HoT or requires use of a legacy + clicky.

With Option B, increasing the outgoing healing to 25% might make me consider traiting it more. It is afterall called Hands of Healing, not Hands of HoT. 10% just isn't enough. Also this seems a bit more realistic.

Option C.. One can dream I suppose.

These are just my personal suggestions. I'm certain the community here can likely come up with better ideas than myself

I don't think WoC should ever be able to use on self. It would be very OP even at 50%. The question of whether you would remove the moral cost also applies.

I do, however, believe an increase to VS range is required along with a larger HoT from RC and improved Inspire heals when traited blue.

The only reason I trait HoH capstone ever is because of the VS heal. VS combined with the Dragon armour set is very good and I could main heal foundry simply because of it.



Turbine actually does a good job at making us jack of all trades, I could be just as good a tank as healer or dpser. However, all our roles could be improved because I don't feel we improved as drastically as other classes have in their roles. I think they simply need to tweak some numbers, add 5% or 10% here and there.

Really, HoH's only weak because Song Brother is such a complete and utter failure as a healing tool.

Dont make 5b+x+h HoH again a must have speck buff all three trait lines that they are equal.

Originally Posted by Thaodan

Dont make 5b+x+h HoH again a must have speck buff all three trait lines that they are equal.

And how would that be a problem if our other traitlines were strong at both DPS and tanking?

Originally Posted by DreagonMK

I've been thinking a lot about the HoH capstone lately, and I honestly feel it's lacking something. The VS HoT is pretty good, but it's not enough to make me trait it any longer aside from a few solo situations. In PvP it's even worse due to the very small range it has if your group isn't right on top of each other. In ToO boss fights are so short you're only going to use it twice in most situations aside from F/F and Saruman.

The extra 10% healing is also underwhelming. I can trait FB, throw on a revealing mark, hit To Arms and probably end up giving (at least the DPS classes) more than 10% extra healing via the 10% extra damage everyone who isn't my main BB is doing.

Personally, considering the way Turbine is designing content to be a constant DPS race, I'm finding that I'm even traiting IDOME over it. Extra morale/power, extra damage (both mastery and crit), extra mitigations, etc, regardless of how slight it is. In other words, I've found I can heal just as well, if not better, without the HoH capstone. Traiting it has started to feel like I'm losing something more than what I gain with it.

I'd like to hear what other Captains think about it. Do you like it as is? Do you think it needs improving? If so, what would you change?

Myself - I've been thinking about the following changes to HoH:

• Option A: Makes WoC usable on self. Even at 50% effectiveness. Captains need a reliable self-heal, imo.
• Option B: Increase the 10% extra healing to 25%. Simple enough.
• Option C: Both?

With Option A, Captains would get a pretty reliable self-heal that doesn't require a defeat response, a crit, or isn't a mediocre HoT or requires use of a legacy + clicky.

With Option B, increasing the outgoing healing to 25% might make me consider traiting it more. It is afterall called Hands of Healing, not Hands of HoT. 10% just isn't enough. Also this seems a bit more realistic.

Option C.. One can dream I suppose.

These are just my personal suggestions. I'm certain the community here can likely come up with better ideas than myself

Healing over Time is a form of healing, so not sure what your beef is with Hands of Healing vs HoTs.

Anyways... I like it as it is. 10% is a solid buff, and it's nice to have the song-brother sync to fall back on if power becomes a problem.

That being said though, I woudn't mind an increase to the buffs for Valiant Strike so I'm with you on that. Would be nice if the capstone reduced it's cooldown even more so it was a little more reliable.

Far as our actual healing though, I belive it's about right. If they buffed our healing much more, we would start being looked upon as a solid healing-class afterall, and I would hate to see that happen. This is one of the few games out there who still have support classes, and I want to keep it that way. Buffing our healing to the point we become a full-blown healing class would be bad for this class and this game.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Really, HoH's only weak because Song Brother is such a complete and utter failure as a healing tool.

Completely true.

That said, updating the base healing benefit from +10% to +25% wouldn't exactly hurt HoH. The ultimate problem with it is that it doesn't bring enough healing to really pull off a main healing spot outside of 3-mans and some 6-mans, but it doesn't bring enough of anything else to be worth taking over a red-line Rallying Cry build when we're not main healing.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

And how would that be a problem if our other traitlines were strong at both DPS and tanking?

For me that would be no problem.

I totally agree that the HOH capstone needs some love. There is some synergy between
it and some armor sets. e.g. 3xDraigoch + 3xMenestaid to emphasize the Valiant Strike.
But Valiant Strike just isn't quite enough. It is a decent HOT, don't get me wrong, but
it still isn't awesome. And the 3xDraigoch bonus is less good against a boss where crits
are few in HOH and defeat events scarce. People have proposed ungating Rallying Cry (which
seems over powered given a 6s and maybe given a 15s cooldown). But something is needed,
I personally feel like LtC with perseverence/dagor has become too clear a choice these days for
me. When I trait/equip away from that, I feel gimped. Maybe just me though.

Fact is, even a healing focused Captain can do very well with 5R/2B/LtC capstone or
4R/3B. The fact that the 2 trait bonus is the big winner of the HOH trait line (unlike
LtC where it is the 4 trait bonus) makes splashing for Now For Wrath and Relentless Optimism
all too easy. I guess my point is that the HOH Capstone should be the OBVIOUS and significantly
better choice for a Captain who chooses to focus on healing, and it is not. Sometimes the
relatively marginal gains are worth dropping 500 DPS and a bunch of defeat events on the floor,
but, well, often it seems those gains are not worth it...

Definitely agree, it has been a long time since I ran HoH because I just can't see that much of an increase.

My suggestions:

Make VS unable to be blocked/parry/evaded when HoH capstone is equiped
Add something like +15% crit chance to WoC
Do something with Song Brother, since most of the time I would trait full HoH there won't be another healer in the group to put it on.

Even with both of those changes we still wouldn't be able to come close to the healing powers of an RK or Minstrel. And I am not saying we should, but the gap should be less wide IMO when fully traited for it.

Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise

I totally agree that the HOH capstone needs some love. There is some synergy between it and some armor sets. e.g. 3xDraigoch + 3xMenestaid to emphasize the Valiant Strike. But Valiant Strike just isn't quite enough. It is a decent HOT, don't get me wrong, but it still isn't awesome. And the 3xDraigoch bonus is less good against a boss where crits are few in HOH and defeat events scarce. People have proposed ungating Rallying Cry (which seems over powered given a 6s and maybe given a 15s cooldown). But something is needed, I personally feel like LtC with perseverence/dagor has become too clear a choice these days for me. When I trait/equip away from that, I feel gimped. Maybe just me though.

Fact is, even a healing focused Captain can do very well with 5R/2B/LtC capstone or 4R/3B. The fact that the 2 trait bonus is the big winner of the HOH trait line (unlike LtC where it is the 4 trait bonus) makes splashing for Now For Wrath and Relentless Optimism all too easy. I guess my point is that the HOH Capstone should be the OBVIOUS and significantly better choice for a Captain who chooses to focus on healing, and it is not. Sometimes the relatively marginal gains are worth dropping 500 DPS and a bunch of defeat events on the floor, but, well, often it seems those gains are not worth it...

I think I suggested flipping the 2 and 4 HoH traitline bonuses.... problem with HoH is that Vocal Healing is too powerful that early on....

The entire traitline needs a bit of work, just to become comparative to LtC again....

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Anyways... I like it as it is. 10% is a solid buff, and it's nice to have the song-brother sync to fall back on if power becomes a problem.

That being said though, I woudn't mind an increase to the buffs for Valiant Strike so I'm with you on that. Would be nice if the capstone reduced it's cooldown even more so it was a little more reliable.

You just said that the weakest part of HOH was solid and the strongest part needs a "buff".

Originally Posted by Armitas

You just said that the weakest part of HOH was solid and the strongest part needs a "buff".

Jeremi's our current forum troll. No amount of logic, theorycrafting, or parsing/information gathering will ever change his opinion, so it's best to just let him be.

There are holes in HoH and Song Brother, the key example being that Shield Brother is a better healing tool than Song Brother, and no amount of buffing VS (or any of the other heals for that one matter) is ever going to clear that glaring problem without a developing adjusting Shield/Song.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

There are holes in HoH and Song Brother, the key example being that Shield Brother is a better healing tool than Song Brother, and no amount of buffing VS (or any of the other heals for that one matter) is ever going to clear that glaring problem without a developing adjusting Shield/Song.

Are you comparing Shield Brother with a maxed out legacy or just the base 5%?

I find To Arms with Song Brother on a minst works very well but that is the only upside. Actually, I also only find that the +25% healing is really great if you have the maxed out To Arms legacy, otherwise the -15% damage for 10 seconds, and Inspire, and the +5% inc healing, works much better for keeping a target up. So yes, obviously something broken here.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Buffing our healing to the point we become a full-blown healing class would be bad for this class and this game.

No one is trying to put you inside a box and say "You are a healer!". When I need to tank I trait LoM capstone. When I feel like doing some nice DPS I trait the LtC capstone. However, when I want/need to heal I do not trait the HoH capstone as it's really borderline on losing more than you gain with it. Something is wrong there.

Originally Posted by Fendrone

...and the +5% inc healing, works much better for keeping a target up. So yes, obviously something broken here.

Don't forget about the SoW legacy to make it 20%. Best used on a clicky emblem. So 20% for one target and 4% for the entire group for a full 2 mins is better than +25% healing for 30s. Not to mention SB's To Arms.

Originally Posted by Naethin

Make VS unable to be blocked/parry/evaded when HoH capstone is equiped

Thanks for pointing this out. I had completely forgotten about VS getting b/p/e'd. Even if it is rare with high finesse, it still sucks that one time it gets b/p/e'd when you need it the most.

I also like the +crit chance on WoC idea.

The capstone bonuses are fine as they are, what needs to be done is a massive general Valiant Strike radius increase which will effectively make this trait more useful.

Make VS SL use full for every trait line and give each line a unique buff/heal effect on SL and VS, this woud buff HoH and other capstones
huge.

Originally Posted by Thaodan

Make VS SL use full for every trait line and give each line a unique buff/heal effect on SL and VS, this woud buff HoH and other capstones
huge.

I like this idea.

But they need to change DB and BoE to fast skills imo.

Honestly, all that really needs to be done is increase VS range from 10m (lol) to at least 25m, if not 50m. And then maybe something like hits restore 2.5% of power on revealing mark (cause that would be awesome). Could also through mark benefits on other capstones too; master of war could make telling mark have 5%+ incoming critical chance, and leader of men (if that's what yellow's name is, I don't even trait it enough to know its name) could make noble mark reduce all outgoing damage from target by 5%.

Originally Posted by Armitas

You just said that the weakest part of HOH was solid and the strongest part needs a "buff".

No I didn't.

I never said it "needs" a buff. I said I wouldn't mind seeing one. Reread the quote you are responding to.

Valliant Strike is a nice skill with that buff, but that doesn't mean I would be against seeing it improved further.

Originally Posted by DreagonMK

No one is trying to put you inside a box and say "You are a healer!". When I need to tank I trait LoM capstone. When I feel like doing some nice DPS I trait the LtC capstone. However, when I want/need to heal I do not trait the HoH capstone as it's really borderline on losing more than you gain with it. Something is wrong there.
.

Just out of curisoity, what trait do you use in it's place?

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Just out of curisoity, what trait do you use in it's place?

IDOME/FB/OB is my typical load out. Swap IDOME with SoD for 'moors and main healing most instances.

ToO is a DPS race. Moors is a DPS race (and the 10m range on VS is lol for moors anyway). And I can main heal 3 and 6 mans half-asleep while rainbow traited. The capstone is just that 'meh'.

I'll trait the HoH capstone when I'm attempting to solo something difficult, which is few and far between.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

No I didn't.

I never said it "needs" a buff. I said I wouldn't mind seeing one. Reread the quote you are responding to.

What criteria do you use to determine which uneeded things you wouldn't mind seeing?

Originally Posted by Armitas

What criteria do you use to determine which uneeded things you wouldn't mind seeing?

Can't resist:
My guess is a dark spherical object with an infinity symbol on it, or a checkered circular object that frequently has projectiles thrown at it.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Can't resist:
My guess is a dark spherical object with an infinity symbol on it, or a checkered circular object that frequently has projectiles thrown at it.

Alabaster cubes, their faces engraved in simple ebony runes, cast across a surface

Guys calm down please, laughing out loud here

Anyway I agree with OP. HoH capstone isn't worth traiting, it's a legendary trait that needs 5 class traits slotted -> it shouldn't be a question to slot it or not if you go 5 blues.

LoM does what it should, but it too has its issues. Point being it still has its uses! (main tanking)

LtC. If you are not tanking theres no point in going with anything else. Our only build that doesn't seem lacking with the proper gear. Without the proper gear (3/3 dagor/pers) even this one feels lacking though.

HoH then? No thanks, never as it is now.

gief buffs for dat cappy!

Originally Posted by Armitas

What criteria do you use to determine which uneeded things you wouldn't mind seeing?

Simple, if it makes something better without becoming OP.

I don't see the problem with the HOH Capstone. Could it be better, yeah - but it's still a nice trait in my mind and worth traiting. But that doens't mean I'm against seeing improvements.

That's basically what I was saying.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Can't resist:
My guess is a dark spherical object with an infinity symbol on it, or a checkered circular object that frequently has projectiles thrown at it.

lol... well one of us deffinitely has some dark spherical objects floating around in their mind.

It's really weird (and funny) to me how you constantly demean the bonuses from the HoH legandary trait yet at the same time tout the benefits of using a shield for your healing. So explain to me why the bonuses to your healing a shield gives you is good, yet the superior bonuses the HoH Legendary trait gives to your healing is so worthless?

Like I've said before, you are nothing but a huge mishmash of contradictions Almagnus. I have yet to find a singular theme or logic running through any of your comments regarding this class lol

Originally Posted by Jeremi

lol... well one of us deffinitely has some dark spherical objects floating around in their mind.

**groan** Can't believe i have to explain this one....

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

My guess is a dark spherical object with an infinity symbol on it

Magic 8 ball.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

a checkered circular object that frequently has projectiles thrown at it.

Dartboard

Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer

Alabaster cubes, their faces engraved in simple ebony runes, cast across a surface

Dice, specifically d6's.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

lol... well one of us deffinitely has some dark spherical objects floating around in their mind.

So what on earth were you referring.... wait, maybe ignorance is bliss here.....

Originally Posted by Jeremi

It's really weird (and funny) to me how you constantly demean the bonuses from the HoH legandary trait yet at the same time tout the benefits of using a shield for your healing. So explain to me why the bonuses to your healing a shield gives you is good, yet the superior bonuses the HoH Legendary trait gives to your healing is so worthless?

The HoH legendary capstone doesn't give enough of a healing boost, as demonstrated when you start comparing various traitings using a healing emblem, as I've demonstrated here: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ng-Comparisons. When you compare healing with a healing emblem across trait configurations to DPS across trait configurations, DPS scales as it should (whereas a full DPS build basically doubles your DPS output), but healing doesn't.... it's roughly 70-80% of what a full healing build is. When you combine the healing output with the DPS output, it becomes really apparent that a full LtC build heals waaaay to much when a healing emblem is slotted.

Thus, HoH doesn't heal as much as it should. That's not to say that there are times when I want to drop my DPS output and pickup that extra healing, but there aren't as many times as there should be because LtC covers a lot of stuff surprisingly well.... so well that it has become the flavor of the month (much to my chagrin).

As far as the healing shield goes....

The healing shield is all about controlling the stats that are normally found on the 2H weapon in exchange for sacrificing a bit more DPS. The 100 DPS that is lost isn't worth all the noise you make of it, so by giving yourself better passives, which gives you better tactical mastery (among other things), allows you to have better healing output. It also pulls the randomness involved with 2H weapons out of the equation - and some might find that aspect of using a healing shield favorable.

It is a healing advantage, and one that combos well with the faster skill firing time of a 1H weapon. While I don't do this, I don't want to discourage others who may want to experiment around with this option, because it is a viable option for a HoH captain.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Like I've said before, you are nothing but a huge mishmash of contradictions Almagnus. I have yet to find a singular theme or logic running through any of your comments regarding this class lol

No, my thinking and writing are so far above your processing capacity that it confuses you.

Also, show me numbers and math, or you can take your argument and....

Hey it's Candle Jack ag

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

The healing shield is all about controlling the stats that are normally found on the 2H weapon in exchange for sacrificing a bit more DPS. The 100 DPS that is lost isn't worth all the noise you make of it, so by giving yourself better passives, which gives you better tactical mastery (among other things), allows you to have better healing output. It also pulls the randomness involved with 2H weapons out of the equation - and some might find that aspect of using a healing shield favorable.

Wait, he's arguing that losing a tiny amount of DPS for dropping a 2H weapon to pick up a healing shield isn't worth using a healing shield... but gaining a huge amount of DPS while not losing much healing by using LtC over HoH isn't worth using LtC over HoH?

Talk about a mishmash of contradictions.

The facts about Captain Traitlines:

--LtC as a whole is working and performing as intended.
--HoH is not working as intended because the majority of its numerical benefits can be picked up via two blue traits tacked on to some other build.
--LoM is mostly working as intended but could stand for some survivability-oriented tweaks.

Originally Posted by furtim

Wait, he's arguing that losing a tiny amount of DPS for dropping a 2H weapon to pick up a healing shield isn't worth using a healing shield... but gaining a huge amount of DPS while not losing much healing by using LtC over HoH isn't worth using LtC over HoH?

Talk about a mishmash of contradictions.

Don't think about it, it will only cause mental trauma =P

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

**groan** Can't believe i have to explain this one....



Magic 8 ball.



Dartboard



Dice, specifically d6's.



So what on earth were you referring.... wait, maybe ignorance is bliss here.....



The HoH legendary capstone doesn't give enough of a healing boost, as demonstrated when you start comparing various traitings using a healing emblem, as I've demonstrated here: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...ng-Comparisons. When you compare healing with a healing emblem across trait configurations to DPS across trait configurations, DPS scales as it should (whereas a full DPS build basically doubles your DPS output), but healing doesn't.... it's roughly 70-80% of what a full healing build is. When you combine the healing output with the DPS output, it becomes really apparent that a full LtC build heals waaaay to much when a healing emblem is slotted.

Thus, HoH doesn't heal as much as it should. That's not to say that there are times when I want to drop my DPS output and pickup that extra healing, but there aren't as many times as there should be because LtC covers a lot of stuff surprisingly well.... so well that it has become the flavor of the month (much to my chagrin).

As far as the healing shield goes....

The healing shield is all about controlling the stats that are normally found on the 2H weapon in exchange for sacrificing a bit more DPS. The 100 DPS that is lost isn't worth all the noise you make of it, so by giving yourself better passives, which gives you better tactical mastery (among other things), allows you to have better healing output. It also pulls the randomness involved with 2H weapons out of the equation - and some might find that aspect of using a healing shield favorable.

It is a healing advantage, and one that combos well with the faster skill firing time of a 1H weapon. While I don't do this, I don't want to discourage others who may want to experiment around with this option, because it is a viable option for a HoH captain.



No, my thinking and writing are so far above your processing capacity that it confuses you.

Also, show me numbers and math, or you can take your argument and....

Hey it's Candle Jack ag

lol... w/e Almagnus. You can keep pretending you are on a higher plane of intelligence if you want. But the bottom line is your logic just doesn't add up.

You act like 10% extra healing is almost worthless one minute, then the next minute a few percents from wearing a shield is so important it's worth gimping your dps in a huge way over. I don't need to do any math to figure this one out

Bottom line, reason you confuse me is because your opinions are confusing. It has nothing to do with me or my "processing capacity" lol

Originally Posted by furtim

Wait, he's arguing that losing a tiny amount of DPS for dropping a 2H weapon to pick up a healing shield isn't worth using a healing shield... but gaining a huge amount of DPS while not losing much healing by using LtC over HoH isn't worth using LtC over HoH?

Talk about a mishmash of contradictions.

The facts about Captain Traitlines:

--LtC as a whole is working and performing as intended.
--HoH is not working as intended because the majority of its numerical benefits can be picked up via two blue traits tacked on to some other build.
--LoM is mostly working as intended but could stand for some survivability-oriented tweaks.

It's touching how you run to your friend's defense, and I almost wanna let this slide cause of it, but I won't

First off, getting rid of your 2-hander isn't losing a "tiny amount of DPS" like you claim. It's actually a lot of DPS. And it makes absolutely no sense how Almagnus thinks 10% extra healing is almost worthless yet thinks a few extra percents on their heals (which is a weaker buff than from a trait) from wearing a ministrel shield is somehow so important it's worth losing a lot of DPS over. It makes no sense what so ever.

I was never arguing the value of rather to trait LtC or HoH. You are confusing the issue, and my point. I was just pointing out his very contradictive logic, and how sometimes he thinks slight buffs to healing are so important, where as other times he shrugs them off as almost worthless.

Bottom line - you can't claim that an extra 2,3% increase to your healing from wearing a shield is so beneficial that it's worth dumping a lot of DPs for... then at the same time claim a 10% increase to your healing is almost worthless. Sorry but that just doesn't add up.

What-ever traits you feel are worthwhile or not is besides the issue. I could care less if you wanna trait LtC. Knock yourself out - just don't claim a 10% increase to your over-all healing is almost worthless then turn around and tell me the slight buffs to your healing a shield will give you is of such dire importance it's worth gimping a lot of your DPS over.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

lol... w/e Almagnus. You can keep pretending you are on a higher plane of intelligence if you want. But the bottom line is your logic just doesn't add up.

You act like 10% extra healing is almost worthless one minute, then the next minute a few percents from wearing a shield is so important it's worth gimping your dps in a huge way over. I don't need to do any math to figure this one out

Bottom line, reason you confuse me is because your opinions are confusing. It has nothing to do with me or my "processing capacity" lol

That 10% is not a real world, observable improvement of +10% to healing, in really closer to a few percent.

I will agree that a shield is far less, however, it is still mathematically superior to a 2H. It's something that some may find interesting. I don't use it because I'm:
A) Lazy
B) At a complete loss of playtime to grind out the 1H and shield thanks to my job.

You need to learn your mechanics dude.

Edit, because you are so fraking lazy.... I'll show you what I'm talking about:
From: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...1bUJLa3c#gid=5

	5DFNRX-H	4DFNR-H	2NR-H
Words of Courage	100.00%	94.87%	84.62%
Rally Cry	100.00%	94.74%	94.74%
Inspire	100.00%	94.87%	79.49%
Valiant Strike (Initial Heal)	100.00%	94.74%	89.47%
Valiant Strike (HoT)	100.00%	0.00%	0.00%
Muster Courage	0.00%	0.00%	0.00%

This table is from the normalization against a 5 HoH trait build, specifically one that has the capstone.
The code indicates that each build has:
Deeds Before Words, Fear No Darkness, Now for Wrath, Relentless Optimis
And the HoH build has either Captain's Hope, Blood of Numenor, or Strong Voice

The 2NR trait is just using Now for Wrath and Relentless Optimism (the best setup to yield strong healing with low HoH trait investment).

The Assumed captain outgoing healing is 40% (which is actually low for most of the captains on the board)

All are using a theoretically uber healing emblem of:
+15% Vocal Healing
+15% Melee Healing
+15% Valiant Strike Return
+15% Rally Cry

The difference in the strength of the heals between a HoH and a LtC captain isn't as strong as it should be, and without some major mechanical changes to how HoH functions (like what Master of War does for LtC and captain DPS), HoH is lagging behind. Having the Song Brother/HoH capstone connection being as observably broken as it is does not help things.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

That 10% is not a real world, observable improvement of +10% to healing, in really closer to 2 or 3%.

I will agree that a shield is far less, however, it is still mathematically superior to a 2H. It's something that some may find interesting. I don't use it because I'm:
A) Lazy
B) At a complete loss of playtime to grind out the 1H and shield thanks to my job.

You need to learn your mechanics dude.

lol well this is interesting.

Now you are agreeing the benefits from a shield is far less than the benefits from the trait - a trait you called almost worthless - yet still you say this shield is mathematically superior to a 2H?

Well that makes sense.

And now it turns out you don't even use a shield? lol

If it was so superior I'm sure you would have leveled one up by now... lazy or not...

I understand my mechanics just fine. You're the one who doesn't understand this class, least not the HoH part of it. Because anyone who argues it's smart to dump a ton of your DPS just so you can add a few extra percents to their outgoing healing just doens't know what they are talking about. You can do it if you want, but it's a very poor trade-off IMHO.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

And now it turns out you don't even use a shield? lol

If it was so superior I'm sure you would have leveled one up by now... lazy or not...

When you are working so much that you have barely logged 10 hours of time in LotRO over the last month....

It's about priorities.... I don't have the time to play as I once did.

I mean, I don't have enough of the perserverance set to take advantage of that due to reduced gameplay, and mathematically I see the advantage of that in gameplay terms. Just because someone doesn't have something in game, doesn't mean they can't see the advantage of doing so and advocate for it.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

I understand my mechanics just fine. You're the one who doesn't understand this class, least not the HoH part of it. Because anyone who argues it's smart to dump a ton of your DPS just so you can add a few extra percents to their outgoing healing just doens't know what they are talking about. You can do it if you want, but it's a very poor trade-off.

Did you even take the time to look at the chart and comprehend what I'm saying about healing strength?

You can't form an argument based upon logic, so you must insult anyone that disagrees with you. It's getting **REALLY** old.

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Did you even take the time to look at the chart and comprehend what I'm saying about healing strength?

You can't form an argument based upon logic, so you must insult anyone that disagrees with you. It's getting **REALLY** old.

You insulted me first lol Don't dish it out if you can't take it.

And no, you added that silly chart later after I responded to your initial post. It wasn't even there when I read your post the first time.

And this is how my logic works Almagnus. I put on a one hander and go fight something, and my damage sucks... and my healing isn't noticeably any better. I put on a 2 hander, my damage is good again and my healing is the same.

Therefore logic dictates I think I'll use a 2-hander lol

And if anything is getting old it's all of your silly charts and equations to try and prove nonsense.

Use a shield if you want...though strangely it turns out you don't even use one. Go figure...

Originally Posted by Jeremi

And this is how my logic works Almagnus. I put on a one hander and go fight something, and my damage sucks... and my healing isn't noticeably any better. I put on a 2 hander, my damage is good again and my healing is the same.

Are you parsing, or are you using an off-the cuff observation?

Without hard data, perspective can be skewed and it's fairly easy to think something is one way without it really being that way.

There's plenty of psychological research that can prove this very point, but I'll spare you that data - because I already know what your answer is going to be.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

And if anything is getting old it's all of your silly charts and equations to try and prove nonsense.

It's called math, logic, and the ways of theorycrafting.

If you don't understand, try to learn rather than insult - otherwise you're just making white noise.

I mean, most of the other captains browsing the forums see it, and understand, so why don't you?

Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Are you parsing, or are you using an off-the cuff observation?

Without hard data, perspective can be skewed and it's fairly easy to think something is one way without it really being that way.

There's plenty of psychological research that can prove this very point, but I'll spare you that data - because I already know what your answer is going to be.



It's called math, logic, and the ways of theorycrafting.

If you don't understand, try to learn rather than insult - otherwise you're just making white noise.

I mean, most of the other captains browsing the forums see it, and understand, so why don't you?

LIke I said, it was you who accused me of not understanding my class mechanics first. I just accused you of the same. If you can't handle it, don't give it. You lecturing me about insults is some funny hypocrisy I can tell you lol

And I hope you are wrong.... because if "most" of the HoH captains on this forum think our DPS doesn't matter that doesn't speak well for this community. I haven't seen any evidence of this though, and most HoH Captains on this forum seem to understand just because they trait into their healing-line that doesn't suddenly mean our damage ceases to matter.

And there is nothing to learn from you when it comes to HoH Captains Almagnus. That's what you don't seem to understand. Just because you post a chart that doesnt' mean you know what you are talking about. You are consistently wrong about HoH Captains generally - and make a lot of silly comments about them. And now you are fervently arguing the superiority of a shield that you don't even use lol