Thread: 1 year subscription EMail offer a scam?

I received an email for 1 year offer for $99.99 USD on 24/4/12, yet when I go to the store all I am offered is 1 year sub at £79.99 GBP. (= $129.78 a 30% markup) I want to know if anyone else has come across this issue - OR has managed to take the offer at the email price of $99.99.

Here's a copy of my ticket :

I received an email dated 24/4/2012 for an offer of 1 year subscription for $99.99 (dollars) which at todays rates = £61 GBP - yet I am only being offered a 1 year subscription in the store for £79 GBP. (£18 GBP = 2 months subscriptions) I have tried using the link on the email but it takes me to the same turbine page and only offers the same packages £79 GBP. I have also read the terms and conditions and it specifically says QUOTE "*New and existing subscribers can subscribe to The Lord of the Rings Online™ for only $99.99 when you sign up for twelve months of service. 12-month plans are $99.99." There is no mention on the email regarding time restriction on this offer or "only available in USA". I assume you are aware that once an offer is made IN WRITING and a specific price quoted that price must be offered and honored, OR a retraction given also IN WRITING quoting the offer was made in error and no longer available - which has not occurred.

12 months normal subs GBP 8.99x12 = 107.88 - 79.99 (store price) = 27.89 (3 months subs) difference

12 months normal subs USD 14.99x12 = 179.88 - 99.99 (email price) = 79.89(5 months subs) difference

79.89 USD = 49.23 GBP

There is a significant difference - almost double in the reduction being offered in the email.

So I want that offer for 1 years subscription at the price I was quoted in the official email from turbine. Using the current exchange rate - or as close as within acceptable limits. £79.99 GBP is $129.78, a 30% markup for no reason other than a difference in geography. If you want to entice players to join up and pay for a year, or to stay and continue to pay - screwing them isn't the way to do it. And if it was sent to non-us email subscribers in error then still the have decency to honor the offer and fire the idiot that sent it.

I am also a founder player - one of the few that took the chance on a new buggy game and gave it life so it continues to this day, so to be scammed like this is doubly painful.

I live in Canada and I have to buy a number of things online because many stores in Atlantic Canada just suck. Anytime I buy anything online, I know I have to save a little extra for exchange rate. Even though it is electronic, and not paper money, there is going to be an exchange rate. I don't know the rules or laws governing, but from buying a computer made in the US, to buying a used D&D book from the UK, to buying the expansion from turbine, I always get charged an exchange rate. This is what I believe you are seeing. I think its supposed to be assumed any time you are seeing the $ without CAD near it, its American dollars and you should expect an exchange rate.

It seems a little ridiculous when you are dealing with electronic money for something that is online with no actual physical product to compensate for (I mean like manufactured product), but that's the way it is! Some companies charge the same rates for some electronic things across the board, but its preference, not mandated. And don't take this post as condescending, just trying to help!

I know there was a deal around new years for the $99.99, but I thought that deal had ended in February? Have you tried looking on Turbine.com? Maybe there is some info there you could access? Good luck!

Do you not also have to pay a VAT?

http://www.lotro.com/news/986-become-a-vip

The email i got for the same deal is only a week old. Best I can think is currency conversion weirdness? Best I can say is contact turbine about it

Also do note that the 99.99USD is with an '*' with the * = Terms and Conditions apply. Its very possible based on where you live that the deal is going to be different. It will still get discounted but not all deals may match up exact to its USD counterpart.

http://de.support.turbine.com/link/p...-to-play-LOTRO

$14.99 per month
$29.97 per 3 months
$59.94 per 6 months
$119.88 per 12 months

Thats whats listed on the support page (i dont know if any or all those plans are active right now, as I dont have any billing information to add I cannot verify what packages I can get). If the multi month billing is available to pick you are paying ~10/mon so you only save about $30 by going for the 12 mon special (3 mon discount going on the discounted prices rate which is usually better in the long run anyways). I dont know what price your multimonth is in GBP

Heres some current conversions:

GBP/USD = 0.61627
14.99 USD = 9.24 GBP

79.99 GBP = 129.80 USD
99.99 USD = 61.62 GBP

Provided these are actual conversion we also have to factor in anything else that may have to get tacked onto the price based on your countries laws. So while it would be nice to get an actual conversion I would wager that there are other defining factors in the differences with prices and converting.

Originally Posted by Raphedir

I received an email for 1 year offer for $99.99 USD on 24/4/12, yet when I go to the store all I am offered is 1 year sub at £79.99 GBP. (= $129.78 a 30% markup) I want to know if anyone else has come across this issue - OR has managed to take the offer at the email price of $99.99.

This situation comes as a shock to many European customers when they try to buy something from a USA company like Turbine. USA companies quote the base price. You start adding all the taxes, currency echange costs and all the other fees. In most cases, USA law requires it to be done this way.

A hardware store can't legally advertise a five pound bag of fertilizer for five dollars and sell it to you for five dollars. Where I live, it has to sell for $5.30. It is annoying all get out. Often you never know how much the stuff in your shopping cart is going to cost until after a cashier rings it up. The rules make no sense sometimes. You by gas for your car all the taxes are included. My local gas station offers a cash discount. You buy alcohol some taxes are included others are added at the register.

Your issue is that it $99.99 + Value Added Tax + Turbine's exchange rate and fees. Due to the way USA banks charge excessive fees to everyone, you can't get good exchange rates. Turbine has determined that in order for them to get 100 Dollars Turbine need to get 80 Pounds from you.

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

A hardware store can't legally advertise a five pound bag of fertilizer for five dollars and sell it to you for five dollars. Where I live, it has to sell for $5.30. It is annoying all get out. Often you never know how much the stuff in your shopping cart is going to cost until after a cashier rings it up. The rules make no sense sometimes. You by gas for your car all the taxes are included. My local gas station offers a cash discount. You buy alcohol some taxes are included others are added at the register.

When I moved to North America the fact that all prices are written without taxes (with the exceptions of gas, alcohol in liquor stores) was the most annoying for me.
In Canada not even all products are taxed the same way so it is very difficult to know the exact price.

Consumer laws in Europe (at least from the parts where I come from) have the shops write the exact price you pay at the cash. Doing anything different than that is in my eyes confusing and should not be allowed in North America either. But I guess it is easier to blame the government for the higher price because of the taxes for shop owners. I do not know what the exact law is in that matter though.

However all that becomes void anyway when buying internationally as it the different laws and tax rates make it nearly impossible to have a proper price for everyone so the actual base price is the only valid price to easily put.

It's not a scam, but it is confusing...

First of all, in the US prices are normally quoted before taxes, while you're probably used to prices being quoted after tax, so that adds 20% VAT.

Then those guys at the other side of the Atlantic have an outdated banking system that overcharges for all kind of stuff, especially if it involves foreign currencies. That's probably going to account for another 5%.

And then there's the usual markup for exchange costs and exchange rate variation, tack on 5% more and you'll end up with 30% more in total.

I know back in the days at Codemasters you could 'trick' the system into switching to GBP by changing language settings or something to get the more favourable exchange rate from your own credit card company. Not sure if it's possible to get it to offer you the USD variant here.

Originally Posted by monk_tbd

Doing anything different than that is in my eyes confusing and should not be allowed in North America either.

Part of the problem in the US is the difference between federal law (tax) and state law (tax). With the strong bias towards state's rights, it is doubtful if it will change in the forseeable future. Whenever the federal government attempts to change things in all states it is viewed with great suspicion due to historical reasons.

Originally Posted by chuimon

Part of the problem in the US is the difference between federal law (tax) and state law (tax). With the strong bias towards state's rights, it is doubtful if it will change in the forseeable future. Whenever the federal government attempts to change things in all states it is viewed with great suspicion due to historical reasons.

I have no problem at all with that. The point does not really change whether this is federal or state law.

I just think from the consumer point of view it would be an advantage for the consumer to know the actual price. The current state makes things look cheaper than they actually are and it is not transparent at all with different taxes for different consumables.

I am not sure about the current state of the law if e.g. a shop could decide to always print the price on all products with taxes (and in addition without as well) as a service to the customer.
I do not think that shop will deliberately do that - even if they are allowed to - as it would make them look more expensive and it would also involve costs at least during the transition phase.

Anyhow it is getting quite off topic now. My apologies to the OP for that.

Ar£e...just had a nice good pithy and intelligent reply all typed out - but wasn't logged in so I have to do it all again

Take 2:

OK - Thanks for all the replies and not a flame in sight. Amazing.

I had not taken into consideration the US federal/ state sales taxes into consideration, and that could well account for the variance, BUT there was no mention of it in the terms - someone posted the email they got for an offer and it's the same as mine, if you look you can see the terms only refer to some basic things, nothing is mentioned regarding any hidden extras; like sales taxes or exchange rates apply according to which country you are buying from. Which it should - unless of course it's a deliberate and underhand sales tactic to make the offer seem more enticing that it actually is, which is actually false advertising and illegal, certainly in the UK. If Turbine are going to send out cross continent emails then they should clearly show the legal jargon added to state that things in different countries may apply. In the UK if there are no terms like this clearly quoted, then they don't exist and what you see is what you get, and you can make them give it.

I agree virtualware pricing should be much more transparent. A website GOG (good old games) quote prices in USD and that is what you pay; not USD + taxes + exchange rate + whatever else we can squeeze because we think you are too stupid to notice. I also buy quite a few things from overseas and use paypal most of the time - and that automatically charges me whatever is required to ensure that the recipient is getting the required amount of local currency - but it has never, I repeat NEVER charged me 30% more to do it. NEVER.

As for the offer itself - I think Turbine are missing a trick - a big one. Currently attendance and subs are down, way down, my housing area is a ghost town, all of the houses, ALL of them are "maintenance due" - I know this coz I tried to get into them I'm nosy like that - that's several dozen and I read somewhere that this "owned but not used" housing issue is pandemic across all servers. Of course that's not a totally accurate picture of lack of attendance but its certainly a visible one.

Which brings me to the larger picture, and the crux of why I'm yelling;

A 1 year sub offer of 12 months for the price of 7 (which is roughly what I thought it was originally) is an amazing deal - many people have time constraints that mean some months they play little if at all, so they stick to month by month subs so they only pay (maybe) for the time they can play, but this deal means that even if they only play for 6 / 7 months out of 12 they wouldn't feel like they have wasted money - a very important issue in the current and continuing financial climate.

All of the people in my 2 kinships have said they would take up an offer of 12 months for price of 7 - and many of those are F2P whom have never paid a sub, ever.

Currently Lotro being F2P means that it's dying, death of a thousand non paid subs, an offer like this would convert a great many into PAYING CUSTOMERS - always a good thing. Turbine might think - "but wait they are only paying almost half price", but they are missing the important word; PAYING. 100% of 0 is still 0.

Greed isn't good if it's starving you slowly.

My final though is this; would I buy 12 months for 7? Yes absolutely, - am I going to buy 1 year for equivalent of 9 months? No. Summer is coming and I'd lose to much paid time.

[QUOTE=monk_tbd;6146887]I am not sure about the current state of the law if e.g. a shop could decide to always print the price on all products with taxes (and in addition without as well) as a service to the customer.
/QUOTE]It is illegal go this route. There have been corporations that has been taken to court and lost. The reason some companies went this route, it lowers their operating costs. It expensive buying tax law compliant software especially if you own a lot of stores at different locations to do the calculations as they are ringing up each item.

A business does not send all the collected taxes to the government. There is two tax rates. One is called the sale tax tables. This is the amount of tax that has to be added to the subtotal of each shopping cart. The other is the monthly (or whatever period) payment to the government which is a flat percentage of the total taxable sales. (not trying to be exact here). The local sales tax rate is 6%. The business gives the government 5.55%.

After living in Germany for a while, I developed an appreciation for the European system. I came back to the USA with a different view of tax methods. I have certain amount of unhappiness with the way it in the USA.

Generally in the USA, if all or most companies are doing it the same way - it is because the government is forcing to do it that way. Occasionally, it will be that way - the WAY is superior is to all other methods.

Originally Posted by Raphedir

I had not taken into consideration the US federal/ state sales taxes into consideration, and that could well account for the variance, BUT there was no mention of it in the terms - someone posted the email they got for an offer and it's the same as mine, if you look you can see the terms only refer to some basic things, nothing is mentioned regarding any hidden extras; like sales taxes or exchange rates apply according to which country you are buying from. Which it should - unless of course it's a deliberate and underhand sales tactic to make the offer seem more enticing that it actually is, which is actually false advertising and illegal, certainly in the UK. If Turbine are going to send out cross continent emails then they should clearly show the legal jargon added to state that things in different countries may apply. In the UK if there are no terms like this clearly quoted, then they don't exist and what you see is what you get, and you can make them give it.

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

It is illegal go this route. There have been corporations that has been taken to court and lost. The reason some companies went this route, it lowers their operating costs. It expensive buying tax law compliant software especially if you own a lot of stores at different locations to do the calculations as they are ringing up each item.

This is exactly where the confusion comes from, in most EU countries quoting consumer prices without VAT included is either illegal on its own or considered false advertising, in the US it's exactly the other way around. Which is why localized ads are in order.

The main difference is probably that the worst case of a court ruling in the EU is likely to end up with Turbine having to deliver the year subscription for a total of $99 USD after all for the couple of people who filed complaints.

I wonder if enough of a stink is created, by enough players, turbine would comply without court action? Although I'm not adverse to the idea, and know that turbine in all probability would lose in UK as they have not stated in the offer terms that extra costs are added, they might see that as well as the minor loss of $30 odd dollars to honor the exact offer price instead of the inflated UK price that they will also incurr hefty legal fees too.

Then again - maybe it's about time players made the producers of MMO's make their financial dealings more transparent, and standardised across the world - this is certainly not the first time non US players have been stung in this way - WoW is famous for it.

A very public court case regarding virtualware would certainly highlight what basically amounts to geographical persecution. (ism?, can't think of an appropriate word for it).

Simply put if they opened a shop at their HQ and sold the sub on a disk or something and asked where the buyer was from and charged differing prices according to country there would be riots within minutes, yet online, most MMO's seem to be allowed to do this without compunction or legal intervention.

With the world selling more virtualware everyday at some point this unbalanced situation has to be addressed.

Now..where's my Che Guavara t-shirt?

Whats there really to take to court? based on OP's 12 months GBP subs, its less than the actual conversion from USD. I dont know how much the Multimonth amounts are in GBP but I bet it will be a similar discount like with USD (14.99 -> 9.99). The 99.99 deal only reduces it to ~8.33/mon USD. Most likely the difference in the amounts will boggle down to conversion rate costs and any other taxes or tariffs that are tacked on the the amount that is paid.

@ Jayarih

I had thought I'd laid it out but just to clarify the 12 month current GBP cost is £79.99 - the offer is quoting $99.99 USD = £61 GBP - that's an £18 GBP difference - or essentially the cost of 2 month subs.

Now, the difference (reduction) between the 12 month normal USD cost and the offer cost is GREATER (with exchange rate factored) than the GBP version.

Hope that clarifies, so not only is the $99.99 USD email offer that is being sent out, possibly worldwide, not actually available worldwide (without adding any terms or conditions on the email to state it's not available worldwide), but the US enjoys a greater reduction for a 12 month than anyone else.

If it were the other way about how would US people - with their extremely litigious society react? Screaming from the rooftops doesn't even begin to describe it.

So yes there is grounds for legal action should I feel so inclined.

(sidenote) -those reading this might consider this a storm in a teacup, and yes you are half right, however as said before this is happening all too often, large discrepancies in costs across the world for the same items - TV's, games consoles etc - can be attributed in part to export costs, local taxes etc. Virtual items that are distributed from just 1 location worldwide, should not be subject to similar large variances.

Unfortunately some countries laws, even if its a virtual good, will still charge taxes and tariffs or even the banks that its run through my charge for the conversion of USD -> whatever currency is needed. This isnt the first game that has odd values in regards to sub price between the US and other countries so I doubt Turbine is out to shaft its nonUS players.

Here is their official reply:

Thank you for your inquiry.

We apologize for any confusion. As Turbine officially supports European players, we are required to pay Value Added Tax (VAT) on items sold to players in countries or territories where VAT is charged. This tax is included in the EUR and GBP prices that we list. Therefore, players with billing addresses in a country or territory where VAT is charged must pay in those currencies. We do apologize, but we are unable to provide you with pricing options in a different currency other than the default one provided based on your location.


If you have any additional questions or concerns, please respond to this email and we will be happy to assist you. Please do not update the default subject line in your reply.

Thank You,
Turbine Customer Support

Turbine, powered by our fans.
------------------------------------------------

And now some more info:

Jararih said:
I dont know how much the Multimonth amounts are in GBP but I bet it will be a similar discount like with USD (14.99 -> 9.99). The 99.99 deal only reduces it to ~8.33/mon USD.

ok - lets break this down again - $8.33 USD = £5.14 GBP - and that price in the US looks to be ALL INCLUSIVE, no hidden (by hidden I mean not listed under the terms) taxes / admin fees or any other such "squeeze".

1 year price £79.99 GBP / 12 = £6.66 GBP - £1.52 per month more or £18.24 GBP. = 2 month subs

There's no getting around it, any way you look at it; - USA players get it cheaper.

Now for those that read it, Turbine are saying this is down to VAT, currently at 20%.

Question: Do Turbine have to pay federal and or state taxes in US? - YES they do (whether they actually do or not).
Question: Why is the 1 year subscription prices with these taxes INCLUDED in the USA but EXCLUDED everywhere else?

I can't say it any clearer than I already have - the US discount essentially means you get 1 years sub for the price of 7 months (taken on a month by month sub basis - how most ppl pay as they never know if they will have the time) - the same 1 year sub taken on a month by month price is the price of 9 months in UK.

The only thing that would derail this particular line of inquiry would be if someone in US actually tried this offer and found out if taxes were added at the checkout (as someone said happens in retail) or if $99.99 USD is the actual final price.

Any official turbine employee care to provide actual pricing figures they charge across US and Europe? 5 gets you 10 they won't.

well well - I've just today got an email from eve online - they have changed their pricing policy for GBP. We used to pay in Euros - EU14.99 - which was about £12.20 GBP.

They have now recognized this discomparity and have changed their policy as of 1st May so that UK players will now pay £9.99 GBP pm to bring it inline with everyone else.

When they say they support their players they actually mean it. - Even more reason to support a game that supports it's fanbase. No fans = no profits.

I wonder where my money will go now?

Originally Posted by Raphedir

ok - lets break this down again - $8.33 USD = £5.14 GBP - and that price in the US looks to be ALL INCLUSIVE, no hidden (by hidden I mean not listed under the terms) taxes / admin fees or any other such "squeeze".

1 year price £79.99 GBP / 12 = £6.66 GBP - £1.52 per month more or £18.24 GBP. = 2 month subs

In the US sales taxes are set by the individual states, so how much you actually pay is going to be dependent on where you live. It is standard practice to quote prices without sales tax which would then be added at the point of sale. It is an irritating practice, especially in a bricks and mortar shop where the sales tax is calculated based on the location of the shop. FOr the internet, the tax will vary according to te purchaser's address.

The UK price is all-in, including taxes and allowances for the exchange rate. So, the right comparison would be based on £5.14 GBP + 20% VAT which gets you to £6.17 GBP. You than have to allow for the fact that the exchange rate is variable. Turbine are not going to recalculate the price daily based on the prevailing exchange rate, but are going to pick a rate which they think will be OK for a long period of time, perhaps as long as a year. That involves some guesswork, and will tend to result in a rate that will keep them in profit even if the real rate moves significantly.

The actual price difference between the US and the UK after allowing for VAT is more like £6.00 GBP which is more like 10% of the price. That seems a not unreasonable hedge against exhange rate fluctuation.

The price difference is purely a result of tha fact that you have a contract under UK/EU law and that requires VAT. CodeMasters were always more expensive than Turbine, largely because of the VAT requirement, which is why I originally signed up directly with Turbine and played on the US servers. Signing up with CodeMasters made no financial sense at all. Unfortunately, in the post CodeMasters World, that option is not available to migrated or new UK/EU accounts.

The reason why US never includes taxs is simply this: everywhere may have different tax rates. Reason is that in majority of cases you have a variable state tax rate and a flax federal (think federal is like 1%)

Where I currently live its about 6 cents on the dollar for taxes (or 6% on anything that is taxable). When I lived in columbus oh the tax rate there was 6.25 cents per dollar. Because of that varying difference, all prices in US are pre tax. For the most part if you shop quite a bit you learn your tax rate and its not hard to add in the taxes for an item. Only issue I have sometimes is what is taxed and what isnt that is in the food section. otherwise I have no issues calculating how much it will cost me to buy something.

Originally Posted by Raphedir

Question: Do Turbine have to pay federal and or state taxes in US? - YES they do (whether they actually do or not).
Question: Why is the 1 year subscription prices with these taxes INCLUDED in the USA but EXCLUDED everywhere else?

I can't say it any clearer than I already have - the US discount essentially means you get 1 years sub for the price of 7 months (taken on a month by month sub basis - how most ppl pay as they never know if they will have the time) - the same 1 year sub taken on a month by month price is the price of 9 months in UK.

1) Turbine pays taxes in the US on US sales, in the UK on EU sales
2) It's USD 99.99 without taxes. They get tacked on at sale based on the customers location because tax rates can vary wildly within the US.
But it's GBP 79.99 including taxes. Same for the Euro-area-customers since European regulations allow Turbine to pay VAT for the entire EU in a single country and rates only vary a couple %.

So what you should be comparing is USD 99.99 + 20% = USD 120 = GBP 75. So the additional cost you're paying is GBP 4.99 or 6%, which accounts for probably around 2% costs for currency exchange, some fluctuations in exchange rates (Turbine doesn't like to adjust prices on a daily basis, so picks a high exchange rate to be safe) and rounding to a nice x9.99 number.

but to be fair among all subscribers, shouldn't the GBP/euro offer be equal to the american offer in relation?
so if us citizens only pay 7 out of 12 months, the same should hold true for the UK/Eurozone.

1year offer in dollar without tax compared to 1 month in dollar without tax
= same percentage as
1year offer in EUR/GPB with tax compared to 1 month in EUR/GBP with tax

that means the OP is totally in the right to ask for the same treatment.

only problem with the op's calculation is that they are omitting taxes those in the US has to pay. the 99.99 as said before is before tax whereas no matter what in EU, you pay 79.99 GBP.

Heh - I'm glad this is getting so much attention, and I appreciate all the answers and reads - and still no flames !

Ok so the USD 1 year sub advertised price is without taxes, as those taxes are different from state to state, but as it's been said by Ingaras:

"So what you should be comparing is USD 99.99 + 20% = USD 120 = GBP 75. So the additional cost you're paying is GBP 4.99 or 6%, which accounts for probably around 2% costs for currency exchange, some fluctuations in exchange rates (Turbine doesn't like to adjust prices on a daily basis, so picks a high exchange rate to be safe) and rounding to a nice x9.99 number."

Rounding to 9.99 is of course nice for them, its more profit - WoW rounds up..to 8.99. - The extra 1 per month = another month and a half cost. Except it's not 99.99 +20% USD is it? More like 99.99 + 6% USD = £65 GBP and change. You can't add the UK tax rate to the US initial price.

And now for the coup-de-gras - I've done some more digging and...guess what? My account is being held in..drumroll..THE USA. When I log into the account subscription page it has a note saying "North America".

Originally Posted by Raphedir

Rounding to 9.99 is of course nice for them, its more profit - WoW rounds up..to 8.99. - The extra 1 per month = another month and a half cost. Except it's not 99.99 +20% USD is it? More like 99.99 + 6% USD = £65 GBP and change. You can't add the UK tax rate to the US initial price.

And now for the coup-de-gras - I've done some more digging and...guess what? My account is being held in..drumroll..THE USA. When I log into the account subscription page it has a note saying "North America".

I'm sure they overcharge a little bit, with rounding and all. But yes you've got to add the UK tax rate to whatever base price they're charging (I can write it as USD 99.99 = GBP 62 +20% = GBP 75 if you like it better, that doesn't change the total). Because Turbine is explicitly offering their services to UK/EU customers they've got to pay UK/EU VAT. Regulations on Internet & taxes are almost all based on the customer's location, so the fact that they and their servers are in the US doesn't matter. Before last years migration they could get away with not doing so because there was a separate EU service from Codemasters and they even actively redirected their main page to the EU-site.

Technically, if they weren't, you would have to pay the VAT yourself. It's a bit difficult with internet services to check that, so nobody ever does it, but that's how it is supposed to go when you import stuff from the US.

Originally Posted by Raphedir

Except it's not 99.99 +20% USD is it? More like 99.99 + 6% USD = £65 GBP and change. You can't add the UK tax rate to the US initial price.

Why not? It is the UK VAT that has to be paid. Adding it to the US before-tax price is precidsely the correct calculation.

Originally Posted by Ingaras

Technically, if they weren't, you would have to pay the VAT yourself. It's a bit difficult with internet services to check that, so nobody ever does it, but that's how it is supposed to go when you import stuff from the US.

Precisely. If you order something physical direct from the US, you pay the advertised price without any US taxes being added (which would be added if you lived in the US).

Then you have to pay the Import Duty to HMRC which is collected by the carrier (Post Office, DHL, etc) before they will deliver. And on top of that the carrier will charge an admin fee for collecting the Duty.

HAving purchased many items from the US, including the laptop being used to write this post, I have been through this process on several occasions. You always have to factor in the extra 20%+fee when working out if the price is really worth it.

ok I now have PROOF - absolute proof that what turbine is saying about the price being 99.99 us PLUS taxes is bullcrap. I have not one but TWO players in contact on the evernight server who both paid...guess what...

yup $99.99 and not a PENNY more for 1 year sub, with a credit card statement to match. No taxes on top as they claim; no state taxes, no federal taxes. zero, zilch.

the US price for 1 year sub is the EXACT price quoted $99.99 US.

Which still equals £61 and change GBP.

SO, I was right; US players DO get a significantly better deal - $99.99 based on 1 month normal sub of $14.99 = 12 months for the price of 6.5 months - almost HALF PRICE.

£79.99 divided by UK normal price = 12 months for the price of 8.8 months.

Am I really the only one who thinks this is a raw deal?

Apparently, yes.

new iPad on apple.com - prices from $399.00

newiPad on apple.com/uk - prices from £329.00

Compare US and UK prices for pretty much anything and you will see the same effect.

Is it reasonable? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

Is it likely to change any time soon? No.

Should have started playing on the US servers in the first place.

Once again, you have to factor in the 20% VAT. That is, in this case unavoidable. Having taken over the EU contracts, Turbine have no choice but to charge it.