Thread: need some definitions Please!

First off thanks to all those that reply. As I am getting up in lvls(now almost 71) I keep seeing items and hearing about Finesse, Physical Mastery, Tactical and Physical Mitigation. Now in real world definitions I know what these words mean...but...in game, I am lost. Tried to check the lorebook boards with little help. Can someone explain them in layman terms and which are the best to have as a Warden? Again thanks to all that reply.

Originally Posted by Oissene

First off thanks to all those that reply. As I am getting up in lvls(now almost 71) I keep seeing items and hearing about Finesse, Physical Mastery, Tactical and Physical Mitigation. Now in real world definitions I know what these words mean...but...in game, I am lost. Tried to check the lorebook boards with little help. Can someone explain them in layman terms and which are the best to have as a Warden? Again thanks to all that reply.

Finesse- lowers your targets chances to block/parry/evade/resist your attacks by a %.

Physical/tactical mastery- increases the amount of physical/tactical damage you do (melee and light DoTs in a wardens case) tactical mastery will also increase your outgoing healing. (bigger HoTs)

Physical/tactical Mitigation- Reduces the amount of damage you take from physical/tactical attacks. For a warden caps at 50%. One of the most important things any tank can do is cap their mitigation

Best to have in order: (based off of my opinion only. others may vary) Mitigation both physical and tactical #1 priority.Finesse to cut thro resistance on cries #2 priority (if your a non raider it wont matter as much)#3 priority goes to physical mastery. It ups the amount of damage you do. Im not a big fan of doing huge damage when tanking so mine is really low.

Originally Posted by Erasluindor

Finesse- lowers your targets chances to block/parry/evade/resist your attacks by a %.

Physical/tactical mastery- increases the amount of physical/tactical damage you do (melee and light DoTs in a wardens case) tactical mastery will also increase your outgoing healing. (bigger HoTs)

Physical/tactical Mitigation- Reduces the amount of damage you take from physical/tactical attacks. For a warden caps at 50%. One of the most important things any tank can do is cap their mitigation

Best to have in order: (based off of my opinion only. others may vary) Mitigation both physical and tactical #1 priority.Finesse to cut thro resistance on cries #2 priority (if your a non raider it wont matter as much)#3 priority goes to physical mastery. It ups the amount of damage you do. Im not a big fan of doing huge damage when tanking so mine is really low.

A bit to add...
- Physical and Tactical mitigation are definitely important. Note that for Physical Mitigation, the number you want to look at is common damage, so you want high Physical Common Damage mitigation and high Tactical mitigation. You can swap carvings if necessary depending on the circumstances. (Typically, the only time you will see non-common physical damage is when sparring a Freep, e.g. Beleriand). A well-geared Warden should strive for 50% on both, although you can get by with less. CombatAnalysis plugin is useful to see where you're taking Common Damage (mostly landscape stuff) versus Tactical Damage (typically more in instances/raids).

- Finesse is also a priority because if it's too low, you will have trouble holding aggro. I bumped my Finesse up to about 14% to reduce resists on threat skills. It's quite easy to recognize if your Finesse is too low because of resists, or you could use CombatAnalysis plugin. I noticed a significant improvement going from about 10% to 14% Finesse. If you PvP in the 'moors, you'll want even higher Finesse.

- My Physical Mastery is also very low when tanking. I swap gear/weapons for solo or PvP.

Physical Mitigation helps you mitigate physical attacks. It does not get any more simple than that. He he. This means that if Joe-bob hits you with his Club of Uber for 100 points of Common Damage, your physical mitigation value will determine how much of the damage is mitigated. It Joe-bob's evil minion Ghost of Unhappiness attacks you with his fearful attacks, your tactical mitigation will help mitigate the damage that his non-physical attacks do to you. Physical Mitigation is alot easier to cap then Tactical Mitigation. So once your Physical is up to a decent number, start focussing on Tactical Mitigation. Use a Warden Carving that has Tactical Mitigation instead of Physical Mitigation for example.

EDIT: As Zed2 already stated, don't worry too much about Finesse unless you are raiding. I rarely ever look at the finesse stat. It will come naturally on gear that you acquire as you are getting stuff for your Warden. Focus on Mitigations First and foremost, and then your secondary stats to follow (Block/Parry/Evade). You can get these from Might, Vitality, and Agility easy enough... or raw stats from Relics and on gear. Don't worry too much about physical mastery. That's really just for DPS... so if you're in this to be a tank, then ignore it for now. Obviously a little here and there doesn't hurt though since more DPS equates to more threat generated.

Originally Posted by Elrendos

Physical Mitigation helps you mitigate physical attacks. It does not get any more simple than that. He he. This means that if Joe-bob hits you with his Club of Uber for 100 points of Common Damage, your physical mitigation value will determine how much of the damage is mitigated. It Joe-bob's evil minion Ghost of Unhappiness attacks you with his fearful attacks, your tactical mitigation will help mitigate the damage that his non-physical attacks do to you. Physical Mitigation is alot easier to cap then Tactical Mitigation. So once your Physical is up to a decent number, start focussing on Tactical Mitigation. Use a Warden Carving that has Tactical Mitigation instead of Physical Mitigation for example.

EDIT: As Zed2 already stated, don't worry too much about Finesse unless you are raiding. I rarely ever look at the finesse stat. It will come naturally on gear that you acquire as you are getting stuff for your Warden. Focus on Mitigations First and foremost, and then your secondary stats to follow (Block/Parry/Evade). You can get these from Might, Vitality, and Agility easy enough... or raw stats from Relics and on gear. Don't worry too much about physical mastery. That's really just for DPS... so if you're in this to be a tank, then ignore it for now. Obviously a little here and there doesn't hurt though since more DPS equates to more threat generated.

Actually, I didn't say to not worry about Finesse. I think it's very important. Even when not raiding, I believe you need a respectable amount to avoid having your aggro skills resisted (more if raiding because elites/bosses are typically a couple levels higher). I think my Finesse for tanking is around 14% (higher when I do PvP). There probably are tanks who disagree but then I wonder if those are the same tanks who complain about aggro problems (not noticing a high resist rate).

You might not need 14% but I strongly recommend using CombatAnalysis plugin to track how often your aggro skills are resisted. That's what I did and I noticed a significant improvement after bumping my Finesse up to 14%.

Originally Posted by Zed2

Actually, I didn't say to not worry about Finesse. I think it's very important. Even when not raiding, I believe you need a respectable amount to avoid having your aggro skills resisted (more if raiding because elites/bosses are typically a couple levels higher). I think my Finesse for tanking is around 14% (higher when I do PvP). There probably are tanks who disagree but then I wonder if those are the same tanks who complain about aggro problems (not noticing a high resist rate).

You might not need 14% but I strongly recommend using CombatAnalysis plugin to track how often your aggro skills are resisted. That's what I did and I noticed a significant improvement after bumping my Finesse up to 14%.

Oh ####, sorry Zed. I meant to quote Erasluindor. He he. My bad. Had your post mixed up with his.

Originally Posted by Elrendos

Oh ####, sorry Zed. I meant to quote Erasluindor. He he. My bad. Had your post mixed up with his.

To clarify a bit. Im not saying its unimportant. I have over 4k now. Its not AS important if your a non raider but its still a stat that cant be ignored entirely.

Originally Posted by Erasluindor

To clarify a bit. Im not saying its unimportant. I have over 4k now. Its not AS important if your a non raider but its still a stat that cant be ignored entirely.

Precisely. I don't go out of my way to acquire it if I am not going to raid or pvp, but the little bit that I do acquire on gear still helps a bit.

I know the OP didn't specifically ask about Incoming Healing, but since part of the question was "which is best" I would suggest getting that to a respectable level before putting much energy into Finesse or even Physical Mastery. Mitigation and Incoming Healing are what keeps you alive (BPE you can boost in-combat, as long as you have on-level gear your BPE will probably be suitable). Resistance is nice too, though the return on investment there can be argued.

Thanks to that posted..appreciate the help...

keep in mind:

Warden = avoidance tanks => block/parry/evade
Guardian= mitigation tanks => phy./tact. mitigations

As a warden you will have far more benefit to work on getting block/parry/evade up than getting your mitigations up (of course having no mitigations is not helpful either).

As in priorities imho:

Vitality, Agility / Might, Block/Parry/Evade, Mitigations.
At least this works very well for me - but then again - i never swim with the rest

Originally Posted by UwS-Harledir

keep in mind:

Warden = avoidance tanks => block/parry/evade
Guardian= mitigation tanks => phy./tact. mitigations

As a warden you will have far more benefit to work on getting block/parry/evade up than getting your mitigations up (of course having no mitigations is not helpful either).

As in priorities imho:

Vitality, Agility / Might, Block/Parry/Evade, Mitigations.
At least this works very well for me - but then again - i never swim with the rest

Warden = self healing tank.
Id have to disagree with your priorities a little as well. Mitigation capped >>>>>>>>> than avoidances capped. Those avoids wont help you when you take a 1shot due to lack of mits. also might>agi for added mitigations. agi= +5evade+3parry might= +5block +3parry. The same numbers for avoidances just to different stats. Mitigation alone makes might the better stat to stack imho

Originally Posted by Erasluindor

Warden = self healing tank.
Id have to disagree with your priorities a little as well. Mitigation capped >>>>>>>>> than avoidances capped. Those avoids wont help you when you take a 1shot due to lack of mits. also might>agi for added mitigations. agi= +5evade+3parry might= +5block +3parry. The same numbers for avoidances just to different stats. Mitigation alone makes might the better stat to stack imho

aye but you will have to agree that maxing block/parry is easy - and most have lack in evade - so agi is important (since might does not give that to you). If you can block/parry/evade most attacks - there is no need to mitigate them - it is a different approach i know

I have always gone for a balanced setup.
1k agi 1k might 2k vit is my goal - and i am very close

I didn't notice anyone else mentioning this, but in the don't-leave-home-without-it category I would add *partial* b/p/e. While it requires trade-offs, I recommended adding at least 2 partial b/p/e melded relics (all 4 if you can). After you lose a b/p/e roll and get hit your partial stat allows you to reduce the amount of actual damage taken, substantially with a high enough partial rating. The only way of getting up your partials, as far as I can tell, is though the small % buffs that come from using your gambit builders in combat and (to a much greater extent) through the melded relics.

I currently have 3 slotted and am working for my 4th.

Originally Posted by Morat

I didn't notice anyone else mentioning this, but in the don't-leave-home-without-it category I would add *partial* b/p/e. While it requires trade-offs, I recommended adding at least 2 partial b/p/e melded relics (all 4 if you can). After you lose a b/p/e roll and get hit your partial stat allows you to reduce the amount of actual damage taken, substantially with a high enough partial rating. The only way of getting up your partials, as far as I can tell, is though the small % buffs that come from using your gambit builders in combat and (to a much greater extent) through the melded relics.

I currently have 3 slotted and am working for my 4th.

Agreed. I have four of these on my two legendary items currently and they are great. They seem to work quite often too judging by my combat logs.

once again thanks to all who posted..this has been a great help!