Thread: Wardens?

I think because I have a 75 guard as a main and also a 69 warden, a 65 mini, 70 rk, 60 cappy, etc etc AND I have all the creep classes ranked I was used to having pvp be somewhat balanced and knowing what could be done to solo each class. Even the ranger and troll can be solo'd so it just ticks me off that you would need a group of more than 8 to kill 1 freep or at least have a defiler to power drain since 1 warg and a BA isnt enough.

Anyway thanks for the replies everyone, i think for the sake of my blood pressure ill just go back to tribes ascend or something until they fix the warden.

Ill just leave this video of me after fighting a warden in the moors

Originally Posted by frgpugs

I think because I have a 75 guard as a main and also a 69 warden, a 65 mini, 70 rk, 60 cappy, etc etc AND I have all the creep classes ranked I was used to having pvp be somewhat balanced and knowing what could be done to solo each class. Even the ranger and troll can be solo'd so it just ticks me off that you would need a group of more than 8 to kill 1 freep or at least have a defiler to power drain since 1 warg and a BA isnt enough.

Anyway thanks for the replies everyone, i think for the sake of my blood pressure ill just go back to tribes ascend or something until they fix the warden.

Ill just leave this video of me after fighting a warden in the moors

Ok then....

It does seem wardens have finally got some love from Orion...we were in a horrible place when ROI hit....hey, knowing how Op we are it just might entice me to come out and try some pve to sharpen my 'lite skillz. Fair warning, i admit i don't have the full picture of what this latest update did for wardens in terms of skills.

most enjoyable moors (for me) = spear traited, reckless Warden....nothing like slamming down 2 back to back warden's triumph (our money shot damage skill) on your helpless target. You are basically a Reaver on acid except you have some punching power. If you got the ambush off (OP knockdown) then your chances of winning just went up by >50%. Sure, you eat thru power like a reaver spamming DS (if they could) but who cares with a good stack of store power pots ;D Anyway, spear = comes down to crits and some luck...that amount of uncertainty made my gaming enjoyment.

Yellow line has good annoyance factor but with DR for CC effects, it's big AOE fear has limited effect. Shield traiting (insecure nameless freeps) is mostly about not dying or fighting bosses solo.
cheers maggots

Originally Posted by astalyn

Jesus, it was a joke

So was mine :P

And yes, I play in the moors, but not on Ridder or Imladris... *shrug* I'll leave it at that.. the mylotro page spit this thread out and it caught my eye... and does it matter if I play on Riddermark or not? The comment sting was essentially "Wardens are OP" not "Wardens on Riddermark are OP"... makes a difference if you're going to generalize.

Shield-traited wardens can still outDPS, while outhealing a defiler or WL. Also my defiler unless he has armour-traited (6-8% mits difference) which I don't for healing has like 24% Beleriend, 21.5% Light/Lightning mits. Me staying alive against more than maybe 2 Freeps is silly. Even then those 2 Freeps have to be bad. To be completely honest I don't really care how OP anything is as long as I have fun fighting it. Wardens are not fun to fight most of the time. Thats why I enjoyed fighting Adino using heals than Silvers not using heals. The fight was much closer and I feel like it was possible to win. Example, My defiler can literally hold still and spam HoTs and Flies till someone is out of power. I don't do this, because I want people to keep 1v1ing me so I try to give them interesting fights.

Originally Posted by pelmysilverwolf

So was mine :P

And yes, I play in the moors, but not on Ridder or Imladris... *shrug* I'll leave it at that.. the mylotro page spit this thread out and it caught my eye... and does it matter if I play on Riddermark or not? The comment sting was essentially "Wardens are OP" not "Wardens on Riddermark are OP"... makes a difference if you're going to generalize.

Since you are replying to comments made by vet creeps and freeps, and/or disagreeing with said riddermark players, yes, I would say it does matter.

But no need to get testy, it was a simple question posed in a simple manner

Originally Posted by ThunderbowStormshard

Since you are replying to comments made by vet creeps and freeps, and/or disagreeing with said riddermark players, yes, I would say it does matter.

But no need to get testy, it was a simple question posed in a simple manner

Vets? Pfft. You're a noob.

Be nice Tbow, back to your corner!

<3 Bonnie

Originally Posted by pelmysilverwolf

So was mine :P

And yes, I play in the moors, but not on Ridder or Imladris... *shrug* I'll leave it at that.. the mylotro page spit this thread out and it caught my eye... and does it matter if I play on Riddermark or not? The comment sting was essentially "Wardens are OP" not "Wardens on Riddermark are OP"... makes a difference if you're going to generalize.

Do you play a warden in the moors?

Originally Posted by big_boi198

A) give them the ability to do nothing but heal themselves and live with little to no damage or vice versa. Also imo the ability to swap between shouldn't be as easy as a toggle stance.

It already works like that, but is as simple as a stance toggle.

Originally Posted by couillon

most enjoyable moors (for me) = spear traited, reckless Warden....nothing like slamming down 2 back to back warden's triumph (our money shot damage skill) on your helpless target.

You don't get the 30% WT boost for traiting spear anymore so WT is kinda weak atm.

Originally Posted by dontneed7

The class was totally broken when ROI came out with changes to medium armour mitigations, removal of passives and finesse which together helped make the Warden "tank" class quite squishy and near useless overall (among other new bugs and problems), it's just now back to being fun again since then, almost 8 months later.

Cletus is right, if the class itself was too strong, we'd see tons of new Wardens all over the moors. It's just not happening. Warden is still the least played class. Last time I checked it was at or below 2% of toons in the moors, compared to wargs which I believe are at about 20% of the total (across all servers to get a large enough sample).

Shield traited Wardens are at or near the lowest dps output of any other class/config. I doubt many shield traited Wardens can reliably kill a strongly played War Leader or Defiler right now without help. It would be a long time waster of a fight for nothing. And even on this server there are Weavers and Defilers that are harder than any Warden to take down when in retreat mode even with a strong group pursuing.

All I can say is that if you think high survivability comes automatically with every Warden who desires it, you just aren't paying attention - it's a difficult class to master and most people I know who try it don't even find it fun to play - only the weird ones do

There are a few things I believe to be wrong here. I shall explain.

The warden class was always fun, but I do agree that it was "broken" before U6. That was mainly in its ability to tank and take damage however, not so much in the dps field.

Warden may have been the least played class, but that is not the case anymore. Since U6, a lot of new wardens have shown up. Burglars, Captains and Lore-Masters are all less played than the Warden. The reason that the Moors doesn't only have Wardens instead is because the most played classes in the Moors are now Minstrels and an insane amount of Champions.
Both of those classes are "OP" in their own right, so their desire to level a Warden is obviously quite limited.
You may verify these claims quite easily.


You claim that not many shield-traited Wardens could solo a well-played Warleader or Defiler? If the Defiler has enhanced flies, then sure. Apart from that however, only someone completely clueless could lose to one. Someone that clueless should not be winning a 1v1 against a well played Warleader and Defiler anyways.
Any shield-traited Warden can easily kill a Warleader or Defiler. Even without the heal-enhancing legacies, a shield traited warden's Restoration and Conviction can heal for close to 700 morale every 3 seconds for 24 seconds. Add this to the 1% heal per block and ICMR, and the Warleader and Defiler cannot even hurt you due to their low amount of dps. Additionally, both of those hots can be used in Recklessness stance, which means that you are doing almost as much damage as a spear-traited Warden while also giving yourself massive heals. It isn't even a competition unless the Defiler has flies. It doesn't even matter if the Warden is badly geared.

If a Warden decides not to lose in a 1v1, he wont. (bar defiler flies)


As for some Weavers and Defilers being harder to kill in a pursuit than any Warden...
The ONLY way that some Defilers and Weavers can be tougher to take down than "any" Warden is if those giving chase do not know, nor understand the opposing class. Their lack of knowledge on how to deal with those classes is not a measure of how tough to kill said class is.

/Aza

thats what im saying, any warden no matter the stance or traits is either impossible to kill 1v1 or it would be a fluke and they would have to mess up badly. The only way I can see it happening is a complete power drain with flies, even a warg isnt enough to power drain a warden and thats just wrong to me. I call for a nerf posthaste!

Originally Posted by Priestetute

It already works like that, but is as simple as a stance toggle.

That's what i'm saying...the ability switch from healing to dps in a matter of a second is ridiculous. But seeing that gambits define the warden and the dps and healing comes from the gambits then i have no clue how to fix the issue. It's all cool when wardens decide not to heal, but i'm not for people having the ability to become OP just simply by spamming a few gambits.

Originally Posted by ivan11787

1. Ranged kiting. Shield gambit hots, even in assailment stance can only be activated in melee range. The AOE hots have a range of 6 meters and require 4+ creeps to be around them in order to be more effective than shield-gambit hots. Whiskey and I got silvers down to 1500 morale the other day, even after he popped NS etc.. We simply kept him at range and whoever he chased would simply kite him. Unfortunately he found an npc to hot himself on and healed up again, but if it were not for that npc then he would have died. So if you've got more than 2 ranged, then it is even easier.

/Aza

Originally Posted by ivan11787

.....those giving chase do not know, nor understand the opposing class. Their lack of knowledge on how to deal with those classes is not a measure of how tough to kill said class is.

/Aza

2v1, Aza's BA and my spider didn't do a terrible job of getting Silvers down to 1500 even after he blew all his CD's because we both KNOW how Wardens work.

The key here is to understand your opponents, how they work, why they work and what skills look like (animations) and when to interrupt.

It's as Sun-Tzu said (I'll quote him two times here):

If ignorant both of your enemy and yourself, you are certain to be in peril.

If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.

Sun-Tzu is a wise man indeed, and far beyond his time.

Originally Posted by big_boi198

That's what i'm saying...the ability switch from healing to dps in a matter of a second is ridiculous.

This is how the warden has been since pre-roi and you didn't even have to change stances to dps..

anyway.. If you can't beat a warden in the moors no matter how he's traited you might want to change up your strategy or ask a couple creep vets for advice. I checked out the "easiest freep class to 1v1" thread, and the nonshield traited wardens fall in the medium category while shield traited fall in the hard..meaning people are beating nonshield traited wardens 1v1(without cds) on other servers...seems like the riddercreeps are the only guys losing to every warden no matter how traited or poorly played...

I remember most of the transfers for example Als and zazel being able to thrash 95% of the nonshield traited wardens 1v1

Theres even a warden in this thread admitting he went 0-5 in a 1v1 circle while spear traited...

^ what silver said (cbf to get a quote) and about the wardens always winning..i trait yellow on mine for 1v1s and i get roflstomped most of the time now


Also this is just my opinion on Classes being OP..so..dont get too angry and rage at me

IMO for all classes but the mini (till i find otherwise) its the PLAYER that makes the class OP and not the Class itself..

I say all but minis coz they can run around heal spamming etc ive seen quest geared minis escape an EC zerg..even tho it was like 6 of them on him/her..he/she got away clda been skilled but idk