Thread: PVMP: How do you (CHAMP) deal with defiler flies in a 1v1 ?

Hai All,
As the subject line sugests "How do you (CHAMP) deal with defiler flies in a 1v1 ?"

I'm some what at a loss on this one. On less experianced defilers its not really a big a deal, but still somewhat a pain. How do you deal with them ? ... could use some help on this one please.

Just ignore it, its pointless to kill them since they can be sent back. I run with vigour of champions all the time, so regen aint really a problem. If fervour/vigour of champions aint enough, just pop controlled burn and kill the guy asap =P

You shouldn't really care about them, even if it is a high ranked defiler.

95% of their skills are induction of one second or two seconds if they've traited the cd trait.

Just stand in melee and whack them to hell, defilers incombat power regen is a little around 400 if I remember so it's pathetic compared to a champions 2K fervour and then our power restore skill per second.

Horns help nicely here aswell, or even the athletic trait which gives one skill a stun on next hit.
Defiler only has two none induction heals the rest are on like a 20-30 second CD so just keep nuking and over a bit of time you should win.

Well either you need about 6k power regen to ignore them (taking into account the power drain and power skill cost) or you need to kill the Defiler before you run out of power. Easier said than done, really.

Also, I think Defilers have been given a larger in-combat power regen. They're at least at 2k now, since I was watching a defiler actually gain around 100 power everytime it updated.

They can be an issue on good defilers espcially if the defiler gets blight down. I trait cbr still so defiler die pretty easy to me because they can't use the fear and heal up tactic. Just remember to break inductions and stay right on them. CB is really useful since its almost impossible to run out of power with it up.

Little tougher once they gain enough audacity... since it grants icpr. Haven't fought any 1v1 since U6... but I suspect CBR would be suicide against a self healing/kiting defiler with 7 Audacity... just use BR for the first fear... seems to be the same fight versus warleaders with the banner down.

I have been on both sides of this fight, it really comes down to keeping them hamstrung so they can't kite you. Defiler is one of the few classes I don't like opening with seeking blade against, I prefer to get pips up then hit them with brutal+clobber, this will usually force them to use their fear skill to get induction heals off, once you come out of fear if you don't resist just go to town and hit them with seeking.

A champ hits fast enough to keep a defiler from using any skills except headcracker, flies, instant cast heals and slow.

Low level defilers who do not have improved flies, just pot the flies when they come up the first time, they will be on CD for the rest of the fight.

keep in range for when the flies expire and use low pwr skills just to keep new flies from coming.
Hint - if you're on the move when flies pop up and move out of their aggro range before they activate nice things can happen

A smart defiler is fearing you to get blight off right at the start of the fight. If a defiler doesnt get blight down they arent going to beat me. I just cbr to break fears when fear pots on CD example i will burn defiler a bit or if they fear to get blight off i will break it automatically to interupt that. If they dont blight and save for heals i will burn defiler, they fear, i break it with cbr and hit guaranteed crit with cbr up you gain that 10% dmg for a guaranteed crit skill, then i drop cbr continue on the fight. In all honesty champs are probably a defiler toughest fight you should be wreaking them.

Aye, thanks for the responses.

Yes, I do wreck Defilers 99.9% of the time, but sometimes I almost run out of power extremely fast for some reason which makes it tougher, not impossible mind you, but tougher. Yes I do have my power regen traited, etc. So was just wondering what ya all do against Imp. flies. Fear was not part of the topic or blight, etc. just flies, but always glad to hear tactics about them as well. I usually ignore them mostly but was wondering if maybe stun the flies or something like that. Probably what happenes on some is I forget to hit CB. Don't know that's why I was asking what ya all do.

Would like to hear more on this tho:
(from OP) Hint - if you're on the move when flies pop up and move out of their aggro range before they activate nice things can happen. ???

You all didnt answer, problem is not blight, or fear or whatever, but FLIES - they do cca 50-70 dmg to power, every 1s !, they are at 30s CD... they are ON all the time!

Against a high-ranked, skilled defiler that has traited enhanced flies (R14 skill btw)... the only thing you can do is die or sprint away (if you even have power to do that). An unskilled defiler with enhanced flies (store bought of course) .. beatable .. most often they try and run away so it's critical to catch them out in the open

Originally Posted by Nuth_KM

Against a high-ranked, skilled defiler that has traited enhanced flies (R14 skill btw)... the only thing you can do is die or sprint away (if you even have power to do that). An unskilled defiler with enhanced flies (store bought of course) .. beatable .. most often they try and run away so it's critical to catch them out in the open

Agree. Landy has a couple Defilers who REALLY know what they're doing and it's my opinion that they're near unbeatable assuming they make no major mistakes. Of course we have a couple really high ranked ones that are spec'd terribly and pretty much explode to a Champ as well...

But I'd suggest it's not even just the flies. A Defiler that really knows their class and how to spec is going to be hard to even out dps their heals. Power issues aside, even with a 1st age they're tough nuts to crack if they're spec'd for it.

As to the fear issue, I pot that garbage. It's easy to keep stocked in pots these days once you hit your 7Aud.

heh, I had to buy more vault space because I was loading up on so many pots.

Originally Posted by Drakkarmyst

Aye, thanks for the responses.

Would like to hear more on this tho:
(from OP) Hint - if you're on the move when flies pop up and move out of their aggro range before they activate nice things can happen. ???

LoL,it's pretty straight forward to be honest, imo. When an npc pops up it has the time before it is active (when it aggro and is active it is indicated by a yellowish arrow? thingie, think of it as the exclamation mark in MGS, lol) Then there's aggro range ~4m I guess for this particular mob. Lets say you have are running to the defiler, he is ~14m away from you, flies pop and you keep running at him. You could end up with a Draigoch of sorts (catch my drift? ) If he does that and you close range it's pretty easy to keep interrupts on pretty much all of the time. I guess I am being a bit round about with this, but really, work yer brain :P
This doesn't really happen all that often, but it can give you an idea how to try and fight/move.
If you want a pretty much direct answer what happens you can send me a PM here(am looking out for defilers who read champ forums and might not get what i mean here, lol)

I play a defiler with some bought skills and think I understand the class well. I have no clue how a defiler is beating a champ that knows his class. Im directing post to those that are calling good defilers unbeatable. Im sorry but that simply isnt true IMO you have all the skills that are needed to stop a defiler dead in his/her tracks. Your slow is better then defilers, you can break fears with pots and CBR, yes if they get blight down it can be tough but you have bubbles to survive that. The most damage a defiler does if blight does not get down is from the bloody fire reflect. Honestly a champ should never lose to a defiler if the champ understands his/her class well. I am hoping some defilers post or champs post that when defilers beat them how they do it however i think its major errors on the champs end if they lose to a defiler.

Originally Posted by Wilantuk

I play a defiler with some bought skills and think I understand the class well. I have no clue how a defiler is beating a champ that knows his class. Im directing post to those that are calling good defilers unbeatable. Im sorry but that simply isnt true IMO you have all the skills that are needed to stop a defiler dead in his/her tracks. Your slow is better then defilers, you can break fears with pots and CBR, yes if they get blight down it can be tough but you have bubbles to survive that. The most damage a defiler does if blight does not get down is from the bloody fire reflect. Honestly a champ should never lose to a defiler if the champ understands his/her class well. I am hoping some defilers post or champs post that when defilers beat them how they do it however i think its major errors on the champs end if they lose to a defiler.

i dont use any cds (besides sprint if they kite me) and i can beat defilers pretty easy

my fights usually last 20+ mins tho so i dont particularly look for defiler fights anymore. haven't fought any good ones since i got my 5 piece set either last i 1v1'd a def i had 3 or 4 audacity (still only have 6 lawl).

A better question would perhaps be how to beat a defiler with flies without using an embarrassing number of cds/pots?

Fancy gear combined with traits specific to fighting defilers may be enough. Although against a quality defiler who is going full out, probably not.

unlike everyone else it seems, I just kill them, they are swarm I think. So you crit a lot on them and hit them hard, 3 hits and they're dead, keep defiler slowed and try not to let them get their flies off too often, defiler dps is pretty meh so if you keep killing the flies they will also run out of power and you won't cause you don't have the power drain on you and you can spam second wind...

so far this has never really failed me, tho granted I don't 1v1 defilers very often

Originally Posted by Enska

unlike everyone else it seems, I just kill them, they are swarm I think. So you crit a lot on them and hit them hard, 3 hits and they're dead, keep defiler slowed and try not to let them get their flies off too often, defiler dps is pretty meh so if you keep killing the flies they will also run out of power and you won't cause you don't have the power drain on you and you can spam second wind...

so far this has never really failed me, tho granted I don't 1v1 defilers very often

even though they may be swarm they still have 12k health which you cant spike down fast enough because of defiler healing, also if you attack there flys they will be able to get there better debuffs off

Originally Posted by Wilantuk

I play a defiler with some bought skills and think I understand the class well. I have no clue how a defiler is beating a champ that knows his class. Im directing post to those that are calling good defilers unbeatable. Im sorry but that simply isnt true IMO you have all the skills that are needed to stop a defiler dead in his/her tracks. Your slow is better then defilers, you can break fears with pots and CBR, yes if they get blight down it can be tough but you have bubbles to survive that. The most damage a defiler does if blight does not get down is from the bloody fire reflect. Honestly a champ should never lose to a defiler if the champ understands his/her class well. I am hoping some defilers post or champs post that when defilers beat them how they do it however i think its major errors on the champs end if they lose to a defiler.

Things don't always pan out so well in action as they would on paper. I've seen defilers do some pretty impressive things even before audacity and the super flies.

True Daec but that was also before the buff to champs.

Not enough good defilers on BW to even be able to gauge, in terms of 1v1s there's only 1 I can think of and he beats most players without flies.

Of course it shouldn't be hard given CD's if you're bad enough to require them all, as for me I don't really see SD as a cd since it takes 30-40s to recharge, which is the same cd as battle frenzy for me. Good defilers are still
incredibly hard though.

Originally Posted by Wilantuk

True Daec but that was also before the buff to champs.

What buffs have champs got after RoI?

Originally Posted by Daec

What buffs have champs got after RoI?

All I can think of is two nerfs.

Originally Posted by MaroonDragoon

All I can think of is two nerfs.

That's a joke, right?

Originally Posted by MaroonDragoon

All I can think of is two nerfs.

lol im out

Originally Posted by invaznoftheazn

GE pipgen and needless SD nerf? Or did I miss one

Wasn't even aware of the BE nerf... Shows how much I run in glory.

OD 5 set AA damage bonus being permanent in fervour was nerfed with U6.

Originally Posted by MaroonDragoon

All I can think of is two nerfs.

GE pipgen and needless SD nerf? Or did I miss one

You guys do realise that he said after RoI, yes? I'm fully aware that we got plenty of changes with the expansion.

Originally Posted by invaznoftheazn

GE pipgen and needless SD nerf? Or did I miss one

Originally Posted by MaroonDragoon

Wasn't even aware of the BE nerf... Shows how much I run in glory.

OD 5 set AA damage bonus being permanent in fervour was nerfed with U6.

Not very used to English Skill names and their abbreviations. What do GE and BE stand for please?

Originally Posted by Bohegar

Not very used to English Skill names and their abbreviations. What do GE and BE stand for please?

I meant to say GE and it stands for Glorious Exchange, which is the traited version of Exchange of Blows.

I wasnt really speaking about after RoI i was talking before RoI. After RoI a champ shouldnt lose to a defiler.

Originally Posted by Wilantuk

I wasnt really speaking about after RoI i was talking before RoI. After RoI a champ shouldnt lose to a defiler.

I can lose to practically anything.

It may have something to do with switching my strategy to make things as challenging (fun) as reasonably possible, though.

Originally Posted by MaroonDragoon

I can lose to practically anything.

It may have something to do with switching my strategy to make things as challenging (fun) as reasonably possible, though.

There might come a day for a champ when fights depend on skill rather than "how much can i gimp myself and still win".

I suppose you could always fight with out a weapon or something. Defiler vs champ has always been a bad match up. When i soloed and 1 v 1ed on my defiler it was always champs that were the worst class to fight, I can't see how thats changed much now.

Originally Posted by Wilantuk

I suppose you could always fight with out a weapon or something. Defiler vs champ has always been a bad match up. When i soloed and 1 v 1ed on my defiler it was always champs that were the worst class to fight, I can't see how thats changed much now.

Without cooldowns (ISB, sprint, CB, bubbles) or pots (read: fear pots) the fight can be very tough in my experience even without the defiler using blight/flies. Well-timed fears are crucial and blood-raging them can be a risk especially if they only DPS during the fear. I'm not saying I don't win the majority of the time; I recognise the match-up takes a lot of skill and movement on the part of the defiler (and luck, to an extent). However, I wouldn't bother fighting them if I thought my victory was certain, or even close to certain.