I don't actually expect this request to get any traction, but here goes anyway.
My three-year-old son loves to watch me play LOTRO. He has never once seen my character fight, or seen a frightening monster. (He's seen the Stone-trolls in Trollshaws, but they're kind of dopey-looking, and anyway they left our high-level toon alone.) We spend most of our time in the Shire, a bit in Northcotton Farms, and around other safe places like Rivendell. He's also had a good time helping me gather envelopes in Bree during the current festival.
LOTRO is great for this.
Except for some of the loading screens!
I've been really lucky up until now. My son never saw the Orc Defiler screen advertising Monster Play. I think once there was a Deep-Claw on the screen that he asked about. The Nazgul on one of the current screens have their backs to the viewer and are kind of at the edges, so his attention is drawn to the "adventurers" in the middle of the picture.
My luck isn't going to hold forever. One of these days there's going to be a truly scary loading page on the screen while he's watching. Therefore: can we have some kind of user preference to opt out of loading screens that depict monsters?
I know, I know, it's a pipe dream. But I thought I'd ask anyway. Maybe there are a bunch of other LOTRO parents out there quietly wishing for the same thing. Anyone?
Wow. My son was watching me play in Open Beta back in 2007 and made a character not long after and he's still playing now that he's 9 and his toon is level 75.
I figured what he would see in the game is a lot tamer than what he could see on TV or movies. Heck, it's even tamer than the things he and his older siblings would play.
As far as the screen shots, if you're really worried about running into a scary monster, don't let him watch while it's loading, and stay within the same area so you never run into a load screen. Time those for when he's distracted by something or looking out a window.
Or my personal favorite...play the game windowed so you can go look on the internet while waiting for annoying load times.
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to belittle what you'd desire, however I also have to wonder if you let your child watch Disney movies, or even cartoons in general since every Disney movie I've ever seen has some sort of scary moment in it and a lot of cartoons aren't much better. Heck most Disney movies have far worse things than what I've seen in LOTRO so far, so much for family friendly entertainment from the Mouse.
And letting your child watch something that's rated for Teens is like taking them to an R rated movie than complaining about the content.
When my kids were young, the Indiana Jones movies were just coming out. There were some TV making-of specials, with emphasis on the special effects. The kids loved them, watched them (on Beta tape) over and over again.
Then we went to see The Temple of Doom. Around about the heart-cutting-out scene, the kids started getting a trifle nervous, but I said, "Wow, look at the great special effects! How do you suppose they made it look like that?"
For *my* kids, this worked like a charm. They stopped worrying and concentrated on how-did-they-do-that?
This may not work for everybody else's kids. But if you're sitting at your computer, playing your character, with your kid watching, I should think a confident remark on the order of "Oh, hey, that's a Troll Wound-Taker! Ugly, isn't he? I can take HIM" would work. Kids learn from their parents what to be afraid of and what not to be afraid of.
However, you know your own children best, so judge accordingly ...
My kids play LOTRO, although they are older than your son (7 and 9). My oldest has her own character and she plays it, and even does group content with people in our kin only (who all know her and are happy to interact with her in ways that are appropriate to her age). She has tells turned off and she knows that she is not allowed to participate in chat without me or her Dad's permission. We also have all of our computers in the living room, so she never plays unsupervised. My younger daughter is not really old enough to have her own character, but we do let her play mine or my husbands toon in low level areas, she loves festivals and sometimes we tape a piece of paper over the mini map, and her and her sister play hide and seek. We have read the books to the girls, let them see the movies, etc. So they know their Tolkien stories and lore and they know what to expect in terms of monsters and things so that has never been a factor for us, plus they have always had a firm grip on the difference between real and pretend. Some kids struggle with the difference and that is normal, I just lucked out and had kids that got the concept easily.
Everyone has to make decisions about what to expose their kids to, and how to expose them, based on their individual kid, so if you are worried about things being scary then I am inclined to believe you, if he is truly interested in the game, and if you are truly comfortable with him playing your toon in this game, then I would recommend that you break out a copy of the hobbit and read it to him, a chapter a day or for however long he has an interest. Then when there are scary parts spiders, trolls, smaug, etc you will be there to reinforce the difference between real and pretend and then let his reaction to these events guide you in determining how/if to let him play your toon. If you are worried that the hobbit is too much for him, then maybe start out with classic fairy tales (not the sanitized versions that people tell today). If I am reading my kids something that I think might scare them then instead of right before bed, I read to them at breakfast that way we have all day to deal with and process, and ask questions about whatever issues that may come up. This way I am not sending them to bed scared and primed for nightmares. I read Anne Frank to them every morning at breakfast because the concepts and events surrounding that book are truly terrifying and I knew I couldn't just tell them it was make believe so I wanted to make sure they had all day to deal with whatever came up in the book that day.
As I said before kids are so unique that it is really hard to give advice about how someone should do x, y, or z with their kids, but if you decide that the world of LOTR is something that you do want to expose him to, then I would say controlled exposure, guided by the parent is the way to go.
I'm sorry, I'm not trying to belittle what you'd desire, however I also have to wonder if you let your child watch Disney movies, or even cartoons in general since every Disney movie I've ever seen has some sort of scary moment in it and a lot of cartoons aren't much better. Heck most Disney movies have far worse things than what I've seen in LOTRO so far, so much for family friendly entertainment from the Mouse.
No, I don't let him watch today's Disney movies. I'm super-selective with his TV shows and books. Right now his favorite thing in the world is the chimney sweep dance in Mary Poppins. He's a boy and naturally likes action, but when we play-fight it's about wrestling and rolling around rather than striking with fists. We don't play with toy guns, either.
He's three years old. There'll be plenty of time for him to learn about things like that as he grows up.
And letting your child watch something that's rated for Teens is like taking them to an R rated movie than complaining about the content.
That's a nice sound bite, but surely you can perceive the difference. You can't take your child to an R-rated movie and watch just the 5-minute part where people are having a pleasant conversation. But you can play LOTRO and explore the Shire and milk the cows at Northcotton Farms and set off some fireworks, and make it a fun experience for a small child.
Like I said, I don't realistically expect anything to come of this suggestion. It is a game rated T for Teen, as you point out. I just thought I'd go ahead and make the post and see what people had to say.
To Dinarian: Thanks for your considered and insightful reply. As you say, kids are individuals and their emotional readiness for some stories varies widely. I know my son isn't ready for The Hobbit yet. Maybe in another year or so.
With LOTRO, the main thing that interests him is exploration. He wishes (as do I) that every door in every building could be opened and you could poke around to see what's inside. Right now he's vexed that I can't get into the back room at the Bird and Baby Inn. So as soon as the Spring festival begins, I'll be running around the Shire drunk to build up Inn League rep. After he goes to bed, of course.
If you have any tech abilities you may be able to create your own screens and put them in the correct folder.
The game will overwrite them eventually so you could create a duplicate folder and just paste in your "safe" screens when it does (or before you start the game each time to be sure). Sounds like a bit of effort but how cool would it be if the loading screen popped up and it was a picture of you or your son.
I don't know what the requirements are but I don't think you would have to write a plug in if you are going to manually paste them in the folder.
You could also appeal to one of the LUA plug in makers to make a "Safe" version
Your suggestion was to make it an opt out setting? I see nothing wrong with that suggestion. Not just for those with young children but for anyone not wanting to see the cutscenes.
But I have to admit I do have a problem with parents that let their young children watch things or play games that are not for their age group. Why not let your kids play the more age appropriate games out there and leave Lord of the Rings Online out of it until they are older?
I dont say that to be rude or anything or disrespectful but if its rated T and your child is 3 there are other games both online and off that can give them general tasks to do (such as the ones you mentioned Lord of the Rings having) but without any chance of something innappropriate coming up. Those games are designed to be fun, educational or both.
Right now I just think that Lord of the Rings is beyond them. Im sure that most parents can look at their child and say how smart they are - but mentally there are certain things they will be able to understand more fully when they are older. Why rush it by putting them into a situation that they dont understand or cant handle from a mental standpoint without a lot of protective measures being put in? Why not just let them enjoy being a kid and doing kid things while they are the age for it?
ilarenrandall: I pretty much agree with everything you said. I'm sure I'll be looking into setting up a Club Penguin account or something similar before too long.
I've actually been surprised by how easy it is to play LOTRO as though it had an "E for Everyone" rating. Festival events (non-alcoholic ones), prospecting, jumping off waterfalls, and opening every door in sight are all approved activities for my little guy. The loading screens are the only slight hitch, and really, most of them are fine. Turbine has given us such a gift by making this style of play possible that I hate to make even a small complaint about it. They deserve tremendous thanks and applause.
I personally have a four year old myself--most of the stuff he doesn't pay attention to but sometimes he likes the scenery which is fine by me. Normally it's waterfalls, seeing train tracks, looking at horses, seeing the giant flower my hunter can hold, etc.
For all other times, I've discovered a MMO for toddlers you can use for free: www.pocoyoworld.com.
It's a cute little show that comes on Nick Jr. and pretty much involves all things that are silly and cutesy as well as educational. If he does happen to catch a glimpse of some weird creature--I just explain it's a bad guy and mommy is out there to help get rid of them. This ends up with him donning his cape we've made together and 'flying' as my sidekick.
There's other options to explore and certainly you can never really shield a child from everything--it's trying to reinforce the good in the child when the child happens across bad by accident. I'd say that passing road kill is more horrifying for him...try explaining that one when there's a deer to the side of the road and he's fixated on it asking why Bambi isn't going to the hospital.
Nehl the Rune-Keeper | Ramiell the Minstrel
\M/ ^_^ \M/
You might notice that most children don't give a *** about what's going on in the game.
My cousin let his 10 year old son play GTAVC, I would never have done that, but the kid only cared for the stunts on the motorcycle anyway. All he did was drive around town and perform jumps.
It's great that you let your 3 year old son see how people beat the cr** out of each other in a MMO against all kinds of monsters. Personally I don't think a loading screen will make any difference.
But I have to admit I do have a problem with parents that let their young children watch things or play games that are not for their age group. Why not let your kids play the more age appropriate games out there and leave Lord of the Rings Online out of it until they are older?
I dont say that to be rude or anything or disrespectful
Why rush it by putting them into a situation that they dont understand or cant handle from a mental standpoint without a lot of protective measures being put in? Why not just let them enjoy being a kid and doing kid things while they are the age for it?
So first fyi, I confess I don't know how to multi quote and just so I don't get accused of deceptively chopping up a post or changing context or anything, I just edited out some of the parts for space, and efficiency, not to be deceptive or to take things out of context or anything like that.
I know your response was mostly directed at the idea of a 3 year old playing LOTRO, but I just wanted to chime in and say a word of caution about deciding what other peoples kids are or are not prepared for is not a wise thing to do.
My kids for example have been well versed in Tolkien since long before this game came out. I read Tolkien to them in utero when most parents are reading Dr. Seuss to their stomachs. The office that I worked at even had a betting pool going that I would go into labor waiting in line to see the movie when it opened, there where even bets that I would end up delivering at the theater. And of course my kids are being raised by 2 gamers, so what they are 'ready' for is different than what someone else's kid is going to be ready for. We go to a play group and there are teenagers there who wouldn't be 'ready' for this game or some of the other games I let me kids play, not because my kids are super smart, or because these other kids are somehow deficient, but they have been raised differently, and have had different experiences, and different reactions, and that is cool, if everyone where exactly the same, then this would be a very dull world indeed. My kids love playing sorry and we bump each other off the board ruthlessly, but when their friends come over we play candy land or a cooperative game. Just because some kids aren't ready to deal with being bumped doesn't mean my kids aren't. A rating system is a good starting point but it is definitely not a one size fits all kind of system. If my kids want to watch a movie, or play a game first I check the rating, then regardless of the rating I play the game/watch the movie myself, then I decide how/if to let them play it, and so long as I keep my kids from being jerks in chat which I do then it really doesn't effect anyone else.
For example yesterday as a family we all watched Galaxy quest, since my kids uncle works in film the idea that a show could be mistaken for historical records was really funny to them, and they liked the movie, however I do know parents with kids older than mine who would not let their kids watch due to the in my opinion mild language, mild violence, cleavage, and especially due to the premarital inter species kissing, and this is a movie that is rated PG. I don't think my choice about the movie and my kids ages was 'right' and theirs is 'wrong'. I think it just depends on the kid and the family, and while the PG rating was a good starting point in determining the right age for the movie it could never be the definitive answer if you know what I mean.
You also might want to take a look at Wizard 101. It's a F2P MMO made for kids. Three might be too young, but it's very kid-friendly. Character names are chosen from a list by combining words; creatures are mostly silly looking and don't attack as long as you stay on the sidewalk (not stepping into the street is a good lesson); turn-based combat is done by selecting cards from a deck of spells, with lots of cute animations. Lots of parental controls for chat, etc.
Plus the game tech is great. You can install it and start playing in about 5 minutes, and it downloads what it needs in the background. No massive downloads or slow loading times like some games. And even though the graphics are pretty impressive, the minimum requirements are very low. (My friend's video card died recently, and she was not able to play LotRO, but she could play Wizard 101 on her on-board GPU).
I hardly think there's anything in Lotro that's "scary" enough to traumatize a child. Besides, I've never had any problems with letting young children play GTA or watching movies like Hostel.
I figure they're going to get see that stuff sooner or later anyway, better to get them used to it early and under controlled circumstances.
OP, I think you are getting overly worried for naught.
Originally Posted by Issachar44;6142643That's a nice sound bite, but surely you can perceive the difference. You can't take your child to an R-rated movie and watch just the 5-minute part where people are having a pleasant conversation. But you [B
can[/B] play LOTRO and explore the Shire and milk the cows at Northcotton Farms and set off some fireworks, and make it a fun experience for a small child.
IMHO - T rated Lotro and R rated movie are the same experience. You could somewhat avoid the inappropriate parts of a R rated movie by disabling their vision and hearing for a bit. Which is the same technique you have to use in Lotro.
Alternatively you can look into manual modification. For a R movie, watch the entire movie yourself - manually edit out the parts that you think are in appropriate. In Lotro, you could look into player mods - again you would to review all the visuals and manually remove them.
Expecting Turbine to release a E version of Lotro is unreasonable. It is unreasonable to ask New Line Cinemas to provide an E rated version of one of their R or M rated movies. At least, we have ratings to tell us what to expect. Although some letter codes - cover a lot of ground. One product with a T rating is fine. The next one is not good at all. As you move up to R - it is gets more difficult because my personal rating system does not line up with the standards.
In summary, I understand your issue because I have four kids of my own. Ms. Yula and myself dealt with this issues as they grew into young adults. The biggest issue - which you are not facing yet with 3 year old - is the parent and child conflict over what is allowed. Enjoy it while you can, eventually you will forget completely about this issue. It is going to be - no looking at porno - which was the problem with the eldest my son on the computer - the littlest one -what is this stuff Daddy.
Last edited by Yula_the_Mighty; Apr 30 2012 at 04:14 PM.
Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.
My husband's played LOTRO for 4 years and over that time our kids have both watched him play various parts of the game. In the last year we've allowed them to get their own accounts, but - we monitor their play very closely. Frankly, the "scarier" parts of the game kind of freak them out so they don't even go through them. I find they have a very good self-imposed filter.
I was questing in Angmar and they both kept saying how much it freaked them out and they didn't plan to play there.
I don't think you could really expect Turbine to come out with a modified version to accommodate younger players - there are plenty of games out there for younger kids. It's really not a kid's game - some kids can handle the content surely - esp. as they get older. I'm sure you can find some work arounds like others have suggested until they are better able/allowed to view the content. Or stick to more tame areas like the shire, bree, etc. Maybe get them involved in the housing aspect of the game and crafting - those keep my daughters attention a lot more than questing.
And, like another poster, my kids have been exposed to the lore behind the game since day 1. It's something they are familiar with and comfortable around - balrogs and all.
Maybe I've been too longwinded, and the tl:dr effect is the reason we seem to be talking past each other.
So here's the summary:
* Agreed: it's not reasonable for Turbine to make LOTRO an "E for Everyone" game. (Not asking for that.)
* Agreed: stick to the Shire, crafting, and similar tame activities/areas for small kids. (Already do that.)
* My kid doesn't get to see any fighting or other scary stuff in LOTRO.
* Was only inquiring about the loading screens. Can we opt out of the "monster" screens? (Pretty sure the answer is no, and that's okay. Just asking! )
* Was only inquiring about the loading screens. Can we opt out of the "monster" screens? (Pretty sure the answer is no, and that's okay. Just asking! )
Doesn't the plugin effectively give you an opt-out? It's not phrased that way, it wasn't even intended for that purpose, but while they are created by players rather than by Turbine, they're 'supported' in the sense that Turbine made it possible in the first place to create these plugins, they're contained so they can't harm your computer (nor your account) and with the new plugins manager, they're really quite easy to use.
(And this is off-topic, but I don't like seeing that monster player guy either... maybe I should have a look at that plugin myself.)
I wish you the best of luck with child-proofing LOTRO: it seems you've been able to work things out quite nicely, better than I would have thought possible. At the face of it, letting a three-year-old play a T rated game is, well, a long shot? But indeed, I would have loved to run around in the Shire when I was a kid.
Well, no one here can tell you how to raise your child or what is appropriate for him or not.
Perhaps, if he's been very guarded, he would be scared with some of the 'monsters' in the game. But, I've had my 3 year old baby sister sit by me while I'm playing and she's always been fine. Then again, I suppose it depends on the child and how 'impressionable' he could be.
Bottom line is: your parenting style is out of the question here; he is your child and you have a right to decide what is good for him -or not- but this is, after all, a 'teen' rated game; most you can do is take him away while you're on the loading screen to avoid an unwanted image shown to him.
I'm not sure if this is still possible, but I used to regularly nuke the LOTRO loading screens and substitute ones I liked better. There was a nice set over at lotro-interface.com that you could install in the LOTRO directory, for example. Of course, you had to do this on the order of 2-3 times a week because they rotate in new ones regularly, but I had a little command-line prompt on my desktop that would put back my loading screens.
I hardly think there's anything in Lotro that's "scary" enough to traumatize a child. Besides, I've never had any problems with letting young children play GTA or watching movies like Hostel.
I figure they're going to get see that stuff sooner or later anyway, better to get them used to it early and under controlled circumstances.
OP, I think you are getting overly worried for naught.
Agreed here. I cannot think of one loading screen in this game that would mess up a child's head.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
Civ II rules after all these years......
(Pretty sure the answer is no, and that's okay. Just asking! )
Not a problem with asking. That's what the forum is for, discussion! You might get a couple of miscreants making trouble but just ignore them.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, totally worn out & proclaiming "WOW, what a ride!"
Civ II rules after all these years......
Agreed here. I cannot think of one loading screen in this game that would mess up a child's head.
It depends on how much the child was exposed to. For instance, when my cousins were younger and I would sing to them, I often had to change the words. I knew an old lady who swallowed a fly...I guess she'll get sick...just doesn't seem to have the right ring to it lol. But if you have a young child that's never away from parents, never has access to the TV we as adults watch (even in passing through the room), never even gets to watch Disney movies, then you have a child who doesn't know what a villain is. Who may not be ready for gruesome monsters like the MP loading screens.
As long as what you're asking for is an option and relatively easy to fix, I'm all for it. The suggestion wasn't for changing everyone's screens to dancing hobbits, it was for being allowed to select that yourself.
I'd go with the plugin option, personally. If you're uncomfortable with downloading things to your pc, especially those which change your game, ask for help from people you trust. I'm bad with computers but I am confident in the plugins I use because several of the kinmates I trust most linked me directly where I needed to go and walked me through it.
And some creeps. Most of whom shall remain nameless
You wouldn't ask people to get their towel on when they're on the beach just because you brought a child to it, would you? I think it would be easier not to let your child play a game that is rated T for teens.
There's no reason for any kind of filter on a game rated for T, as it fits the content it's rated for.
Kids like scary monsters. I don't see any problems.
This is very dependent on the child. One of mine is pretty immune to that stuff, and has been since she was little. The other used to run and hide from even modestly stressful situations in films or cartoons, and scary monsters would absolutely give her nightmares. She did eventually outgrow that, but we paid close attention to film/game ratings with her - they were totally applicable.
If the launcher hasn't been changed to "fix" loading screens you've set yourself, I'd suggest the OP look into that. It's not difficult to do.
This is very dependent on the child. One of mine is pretty immune to that stuff, and has been since she was little. The other used to run and hide from even modestly stressful situations in films or cartoons, and scary monsters would absolutely give her nightmares. She did eventually outgrow that, but we paid close attention to film/game ratings with her - they were totally applicable.
If the launcher hasn't been changed to "fix" loading screens you've set yourself, I'd suggest the OP look into that. It's not difficult to do.
Khafar
Maybe, but kids that are easily scared shouldn't play a T rated game. When I was a kid, I loved watching "Courage the cowardly dog". That show was messed up even by adult standards. There was and episode where a zombie serial killer film director tries to resurrect his serial killer buddy so they can film themselves eating an old woman. I loved that episode, and my parents let me watch it. If your kid is too scared of a game, he's going to stop playing it anyway. If he isn't scared, his parents shouldn't care.
(...) When I was a kid, I loved watching "Courage the cowardly dog". That show was messed up even by adult standards. There was and episode where a zombie serial killer film director tries to resurrect his serial killer buddy so they can film themselves eating an old woman. I loved that episode, and my parents let me watch it. (..)
Off topic, but... I LOVED that show.
And yes, as a child, I was never censored. Instead of not letting me watch something, if my mother caught me looking at an 'inappropriate' show or movie, she'd sit by me and explain things. I remember watching that movie 'Seven' when I was very young and I was perfectly fine.
Then again, OP's boy seems very guarded. It's more than plausible that he would get scared by some of the things you can find in game. Regardless, we were raised in a way and we can raise out children how we wish, but please do not mock OP for his / her parenting style, we may find it odd, but it's how it is.
It's also against the rules and could get you banned.
If they want to "ban" me for overwriting their obnoxious ads, be my guest. But it won't happen. They don't care so much about those that they'll lose customers who have paid them hundreds of $$ apiece over this issue.
How so? I'm not sure which part of the rules it would be against.
It could be construed to be against this one:
1. Grant of a Limited License to use the Game Server. Subject to your agreement to and continuing compliance with this Agreement, you may use the Game Server solely for your own non-commercial entertainment purposes by accessing it with an authorized, unmodified Game Client...
Loading Screens are part of the "game client". But as I said, there's no way they'll ever enforce it for this. The only possible impact is on my client, and they're not so brain-dead that they'd risk losing paying customers over loading screens.
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Originally Posted by whybird
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I find they have a very good self-imposed filter. 
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