I am only rank 6 (almost 7) and I don't have much experience on moors 1v1. I mostly do 6v6 and RvR on moors. With my moors armour (missing only 1 part for the precision set) and dps jewels I have 27,5k pm and 7,1k morale (unbuffed). I can get more morale loosing some pm.
I was cappy buffed from a previous pve run and went to Grothum to do my daily Ost quests.
While questing in Grothum I heard battle sound from somewhere else and used camouflage. After that I saw a BA with 10k/12k morale hiding from the battle. I felt confident to take the BA alone on 1v1, my mistake. The BA was not full morale, I did the 1st attack with the focus buff and the BA still killed me. Am I that bad hunter or is it hard to take a BA down on 1v1?
I can get most wargs on 1v1 even when they jump me. Can a hunter win 1v1 against BAs? Any tips from more experienced moors hunters?!
He probably popped moving target and that was that. They essentially become invincible against hunters for the duration with the one exception of heartseeker, which cannot be BPEed. Their damage output is more than sufficient to kill most hunters if they drop MT early.
With the BA's super uber skill 'Moving Target' they will be able to evade 75% of all of your ranged skills, which means you will be their breakfast if you are a hunter.
The main chance for a BA with MT (Moving Target) is to attempt to stun him with dazing blow. This can be tough since most will try to easy mode you by slowing and kiting you. If the daze hits, that will let you get one shot off, preferably swift bow. You should always pop Needful Haste (Traited) for any moors fight. You can also pray to Z_C that your heartseeker is a devastate, as HS will not be evaded by any mob on-level.
If the BA's MT is on cooldown, you should be able to have a chance at winning by popping Burn Hot and Needful Haste and by pew pew'ing him down.
As a BA I can say that the difficulty of Hunters I've fought range from flawless kill to difficult depending on how you trait and turn. The most noticeable difference in hunters are the ones who back pedal or keyboard turn vs the ones who pro-actively mouse-turn to maintain LoS. Any good BA will rush you into melee range darting in and out thru you and rotating clockwise & counter clockwise randomly. The main two things that will help you out are longevity abilities like Press Onward / Strength of the Earth. Ideally you want to fear the BA (most don't carry the fear specific pots) right before popping Strength of the Earth and you want to do a 'fake' HS bow induction to make the BA burn their induction interrupt (No You don't) which makes using Press Onward easier. The top Hunters I face usually I end up needing to do 15,000 damage to go thru their pots and morale abilities I listed.
Maybe 19/20 Hunters I encounter I don't even bother using MT or self heals as rushing them in melee range in skirmisher stance is all it takes. It's been my experience that the majority of freep hunters are poorly played in terms of turning / fighting a melee opponent they can't faceroll.
hunters are the lowest of class n the moors atm with regards to 1 vs 1..raid wise or grp wise we shine but when it comes to 1 vs 1, its a different story..especially with a BA..what i do most is to go melee attacks but always run short since they have 10-12k morale + the Moving target buff...this ofc considering creep is higher rank than you are ofc..
The top Hunters I face usually I end up needing to do 15,000 damage to go thru their pots and morale abilities I listed.
15,000 damage is quite a bit. Maybe if they're using store morale pots. Seems a little exaggerated to me, but then again, I don't have man-heal or store morale pots. My Press Onward usually heals me on average about 2300. Even so, good BAs can DPS more in those 4 seconds than I can heal even if my induction isn't set back. As for using Strength of the Earth... if you see a hunter use it in a 1v1, you have already won that fight. With a 130 tick 4 times over 5 seconds, you can auto attack more damage in melee than it heals. Consider yourself lucky if you see a hunter pop that sillyness.
Originally Posted by Commish
Maybe 19/20 Hunters I encounter I don't even bother using MT or self heals as rushing them in melee range in skirmisher stance is all it takes. It's been my experience that the majority of freep hunters are poorly played in terms of turning / fighting a melee opponent they can't faceroll.
I better be one of those 1/20 you're talking about, because between you and Vsnack I can count the number of times I've 1v1ed you when you didn't pop MT on one hand lol. As for running into melee range in skirm stance, I think you have it nailed on the head. That is the best strat for 95% of hunters.
To the OP: If you want to 1v1 good BAs, make sure there are trees around in the area. You can use them to break line of sight when the BA pops their +75% evade. Kite them around as long as you can if you want to survive. Good BAs will just plain and simple beat you most of the time. If you get the jump from stealth with some big attacks, you have a good shot to win, but then again, that's not really a 1v1, that is something different. Face to face where they use buttons, good luck, you'll need it.
I am only rank 6 (almost 7) and I don't have much experience on moors 1v1. I mostly do 6v6 and RvR on moors. With my moors armour (missing only 1 part for the precision set) and dps jewels I have 27,5k pm and 7,1k morale (unbuffed). I can get more morale loosing some pm.
I was cappy buffed from a previous pve run and went to Grothum to do my daily Ost quests.
While questing in Grothum I heard battle sound from somewhere else and used camouflage. After that I saw a BA with 10k/12k morale hiding from the battle. I felt confident to take the BA alone on 1v1, my mistake. The BA was not full morale, I did the 1st attack with the focus buff and the BA still killed me. Am I that bad hunter or is it hard to take a BA down on 1v1?
I can get most wargs on 1v1 even when they jump me. Can a hunter win 1v1 against BAs? Any tips from more experienced moors hunters?!
You win against most wargs in 1vs1? I don't think I ever lost a 1vs1 against a hunter after U6 with my warg. When it comes to BA's who use "moving target" it's not easy to win as a hunter. I just use heartseeker, switch to draigoch set, press IC, use another HS and pray for crit. MT makes them evade most shots except HS ofc but they are not untouchable. Sometimes I'm lucky with my number of hits. Also; is it just me or is distracting shot very hard to evade?
As a BA I can say that the difficulty of Hunters I've fought range from flawless kill to difficult depending on how you trait and turn. The most noticeable difference in hunters are the ones who back pedal or keyboard turn vs the ones who pro-actively mouse-turn to maintain LoS. Any good BA will rush you into melee range darting in and out thru you and rotating clockwise & counter clockwise randomly. The main two things that will help you out are longevity abilities like Press Onward / Strength of the Earth. Ideally you want to fear the BA (most don't carry the fear specific pots) right before popping Strength of the Earth and you want to do a 'fake' HS bow induction to make the BA burn their induction interrupt (No You don't) which makes using Press Onward easier. The top Hunters I face usually I end up needing to do 15,000 damage to go thru their pots and morale abilities I listed.
Maybe 19/20 Hunters I encounter I don't even bother using MT or self heals as rushing them in melee range in skirmisher stance is all it takes. It's been my experience that the majority of freep hunters are poorly played in terms of turning / fighting a melee opponent they can't faceroll.
If you're needing to burn 15k morale off a hunter, I have no idea how that hunter is boosting to that high while also damaging you. If anything, a hunter has to burn through 15k of a BA with its uruk heal/pot. No sane hunter will ever use his/her fear so they can tick 4 times on SoTE, as your DoT if we don't pot it does more damage anyways. If anything, I'll fear to use PO and a swift bow if I have the time.
Maybe 19/20 BA's I encounter pop MT before I get 4 shots off, so I don't even bother unless its an actual 1v1 that's been set up. It's been my experience that a BA that doesn't pop MT against me will lose (unless ranked and can kite efficiently), so use whatever you need to win I guess.
A few days ago various hunters in kin were comparing kills on BAs of various ranks. We found that none of us had managed to win a 1v1 against a BA over rank 5 if they popped evade. Since then I fought and killed a rank 8 BA with evade, though to be fair I did burn hobbit flop to wait out evade. Even flopped for the 30 seconds of evade the fight was still pretty tough.
I haven't fought you solo since U6 so can't comment on our previous fights, I think U6 changed quite a bit for fights versus Hunter.
As for 15,000 damage, it was not an exaggeration I run combat analysis and Xac and Ghalsen both use 75 pots, store pots man heal, press onward etc. and usually when the fights are close damage needed gets up there. As for using Strength of Earth, in melee range even if you pull off a fear it's tough but as Seyz said when you LoS kite behind a rock/tree to break MT is a good time to use it.
Not sure why a BA would 'kite' a Hunter when hunters strength is being stationary and using induction abilities (when they aren't spamming penetrating shot). In melee range BA can use all their abilities in skirmisher stance on the move except VT/Headshot while greatly lowering your DPS by having to constantly turn to face your target. I think that the Hunter class attracts a large player base of 'poor players' which is why the degree of difficulty on them ranging so much. If you are a good hunter and claim that BA's need to MT vs you then you're probably right, but there are SO MANY baaad Hunters on the server I play on that they are by far the easiest class to fight even without uruk heal/vt/mt etc.
Freep class + Hunter also leads to many 2v1 victories for a BA, can't say the same for any other combinations.
I have yet to beat a mid/high rank BA that has popped MT, however I'm severely under geared. I only have 1 audacity, I have less than 2000 agility at current moment and only around 7k morale. I think if I had the build I want I could occasionally take down a BA that pops MT.
if he uses moving targets its like a 30 second mezz where you cant do anything against.
--> distracting shot is range attack, so it can be evaded(min. 75% chance) (and blocked and resisted)
--> dazing blow could also be evades, but you have to come into mele range, what should be unpossible against good BA.
--> after the 30 seconds you are death (or you are lucky and found a BA who wants to die :P )
if not
--> he has a knockdown
--> he could interrupt your induction from range
--> he has a (instant) uruk heal
all in all:
--> you should not be able to win versus BA, if you do, be happy to found a BA who do not know all about his class.
I know the hunter's pain, but I myself find MT pretty weak as our only escape skill, useless more like it.
Ive yet to pop MT against a solo hunter which I wont anytime soon.
Just smack the BA with dazing blow and it'll all be good for 2.5seconds is it ?
btw Tchad, didnt know it was possible to catch a member of DOTH solo :P
Last edited by Witch0King; May 02 2012 at 03:33 AM.
“Progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things”
if he uses moving targets its like a 30 second mezz where you cant do anything against.
--> distracting shot is range attack, so it can be evaded(min. 75% chance) (and blocked and resisted)
--> dazing blow could also be evades, but you have to come into mele range, what should be unpossible against good BA.
--> after the 30 seconds you are death (or you are lucky and found a BA who wants to die :P )
if not
--> he has a knockdown
--> he could interrupt your induction from range
--> he has a (instant) uruk heal
all in all:
--> you should not be able to win versus BA, if you do, be happy to found a BA who do not know all about his class.
this +infinity
if MT is down ..then yes.. but most BA's don't leave Grams/Rez Circle/Red Keep without cooldowns ready.
I know the hunter's pain, but I myself find MT pretty weak as our only escape skill, useless more like it.
Ive yet to pop MT against a solo hunter which I wont anytime soon.
Just smack the BA with dazing blow and it'll all be good for 2.5seconds is it ?
btw Tchad, didnt know it was possible to catch a member of DOTH solo :P
you(as a ba) have a 50% chance to evade this skill. (block and parry not, finesse should reduce it to zero). so you have what? a 50% chance for a 1-2 seconds mezz.
the problem of MT is, that is only effects physical classes. tactical classes could just laugh about that skill. and MT was designed for a time, where the BA needed the MT against a single target.
Last edited by Milithion; May 02 2012 at 12:19 PM.
Mellar, from my experience I have found that if the BA popped MT you're gonna have a better chance at damage by spamming scourging blow and barbed arrow, this too is where traiting barbed hindrance comes in handy. One hit with it and it can change the fight. Find a good balance of melee and ranged attacks when he's got MT on.
When he doesn't have it on, mess with his mind. Sacrificing 2 seconds to make him think you're gonna do something else can change the entire fight. Elf parry skill is useless I find, don't mess with it, just a waste of a second that can help somewhere else. It's all about time, practice with some kinmates on movements, timing, range and radius of melee skills. Try low cut just out of range, move into him, scourging blow, walk through turn with mouse and barbed arrow. Works great I've found on any class, and if you can throw in a dazing blow into your rotation, pull off a swift bow instead of barbed arrow. It's really just about getting the rotation down and practicing.
I have a noob rune keeper and a champ that only tanks. Suck it.
Mellar, from my experience I have found that if the BA popped MT you're gonna have a better chance at damage by spamming scourging blow and barbed arrow, this too is where traiting barbed hindrance comes in handy. One hit with it and it can change the fight. Find a good balance of melee and ranged attacks when he's got MT on.
When he doesn't have it on, mess with his mind. Sacrificing 2 seconds to make him think you're gonna do something else can change the entire fight. Elf parry skill is useless I find, don't mess with it, just a waste of a second that can help somewhere else. It's all about time, practice with some kinmates on movements, timing, range and radius of melee skills. Try low cut just out of range, move into him, scourging blow, walk through turn with mouse and barbed arrow. Works great I've found on any class, and if you can throw in a dazing blow into your rotation, pull off a swift bow instead of barbed arrow. It's really just about getting the rotation down and practicing.
This. If anything and they only put evade on after my initial burst and a QS slow, I'll spam my ISB/SS and Barbed if I can stay within melee range, but even then its stop and go and you gotta get some lucky crits/hits and hope their damage is low.
I've sparred a number of R6-8 BAs and can get them down to 800-1.2k morale staying tight on them in melee range, without even using HS. Hunters can win, but we have to have very specific scenarios to pull a win out.
Kite him back. When it comes to a ba and a hunter, you can equally kite if you know what you're doing. Fall behind? Throw in a blinding shot.
kite back? while being shot in the back spam slowed and not being able to hit for 30s and if you do get em down some they heal?
Are you referring to some scenario where you fight a low rank low aud BA? or perhaps you had the chance to get him to 2k morale before getting kited?
plz tell me how you go about kiting a BA that is within 20m with near full morale and MT and win..
Distract shot is what its called btw... and again MT is up and he is kiting you and yur slowed how you gonna slow with low cut distract shot etc or get off scrouge blow to get barb hinderance...
Last edited by therealwhizzy; May 03 2012 at 08:42 AM.
You can not even kite around a tree or stone, since you are slowed for 40% the whole time while he is as fast running backwards as you are slowed...so you can not just walk into him like verybody does with hunters...Running around a tree did work before he could fire close to everything on the move.
Vincent van Port "Held der fliegenden Feder" R13 before 2013!
Collector of superb posts.
You can not even kite around a tree or stone, since you are slowed for 40% the whole time while he is as fast running backwards as you are slowed...so you can not just walk into him like verybody does with hunters...Running around a tree did work before he could fire close to everything on the move.
whats funny is the assumption one has a tree or rock in his pocket to put down when attacked by a BA maybe that could be a new skill... Hunters pet rock..
I have seen Sklavorn doing some amazing stuff on 1v1/moors and I will try to some stuff that he and others suggest here, but after all the posts I read here I am sure that a hunter winning 1v1 on a BA is not an easy task and will not happen often.
Thanks again for all the answers and Tingur, damn it dude, stop been a whiner and go open your own thread to complain about BAs been week and another to complain about DOTHs not going solo. See u in the battle field.
I have seen Sklavorn doing some amazing stuff on 1v1/moors and I will try to some stuff that he and others suggest here, but after all the posts I read here I am sure that a hunter winning 1v1 on a BA is not an easy task and will not happen often.
Thanks again for all the answers and Tingur, damn it dude, stop been a whiner and go open your own thread to complain about BAs been week and another to complain about DOTHs not going solo. See u in the battle field.
hey im not complaining, I just said it since people brought it up, MT is a useless escape skill IMO, but then again, hunters doesnt even have that.
oh btw, DOTH been so quiet lately that ive forgotten about them
Yeah, cya on the field. may the best Uruk win
“Progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things”
kite back? while being shot in the back spam slowed and not being able to hit for 30s and if you do get em down some they heal?
Are you referring to some scenario where you fight a low rank low aud BA? or perhaps you had the chance to get him to 2k morale before getting kited?
plz tell me how you go about kiting a BA that is within 20m with near full morale and MT and win..
Distract shot is what its called btw... and again MT is up and he is kiting you and yur slowed how you gonna slow with low cut distract shot etc or get off scrouge blow to get barb hinderance...
Do notice my second paragraph said "if he doesn't have MT up." You should have at least a 3 second window to get your own 40% slow on him before he pops evade.
I have a noob rune keeper and a champ that only tanks. Suck it.
Do notice my second paragraph said "if he doesn't have MT up." You should have at least a 3 second window to get your own 40% slow on him before he pops evade.
you seem to be referring to scenarios where you have 40m+ range and see a BA everytime 1st... doing what u say is easy and not the issue, so what do you do when a BA has 20m range on before you know? Now thats the real issue so plz do tell.
There is no real issue in the scenario i posted above but its not always a prefect world...
any BA who pops MT against solo hunter is really really eager to win, if he doesnt pop mt and hunter goes into BH, he's the one who fails...
if you ask me
“Progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things”
you seem to be referring to scenarios where you have 40m+ range and see a BA everytime 1st... doing what u say is easy and not the issue, so what do you do when a BA has 20m range on before you know? Now thats the real issue so plz do tell.
There is no real issue in the scenario i posted above but its not always a prefect world...
Well Tchad's scenario was indeed that he was from stealth and had the jump. But even if he didn't, and you're 20m and get jumped, once again, unless the BA runs in with MT already on, you have a short time to do the same thing he can to you. If he pops MT before your own slow, chances are the BA will be back pedaling away from your while shooting, which, if you can survive long enough, you can catch up. Just get the timing right.
Do understand that I am not saying at all that soloing a BA is easy, in fact, I think it's nigh on impossible to solo a good ranked one, this is jut the best strategy I have found, and I have been able to kill a few Rnk 7-8 BA's with that exact strategy, while of course leaving out a few details that I can never seem to portray in words. I try to picture my strategy's on people with different builds and different mit/dps numbers, and it's hard to contrast.
I have a noob rune keeper and a champ that only tanks. Suck it.
I'd love to 1v1 you actually. I've been absent for a few weeks, be back in 2 days, and I'll hunt you down We've only encountered like once right?
Yup and that wasnt really a fair 1v1 either. I'd love to 1v1 you too, Next time im on Tingur I'll make sure you'll know *evil grin*
No MT = No BH. Thats what Ive been told, dont know which rules you use, but these are the ones I prefer but I'll fight you no matter how you lay it out
Dont get any ideas Tchad/Mellar :P, Ill only fight you if I somehow get my hands on a 1age bow myself :P
Last edited by Witch0King; May 04 2012 at 08:02 PM.
“Progress is made by lazy men looking for easier ways to do things”
any BA who pops MT against solo hunter is really really eager to win, if he doesnt pop mt and hunter goes into BH, he's the one who fails...
if you ask me
Well, I can easily out dps a BA when he doesnt pop MT and will win frequently and dont need BH.
any BA who pops MT against solo hunter is really really eager to win, if he doesnt pop mt and hunter goes into BH, he's the one who fails...
if you ask me
Only if he chooses to play "fair". Kiting around a tree or rock will ensure a win for a BA in any case.
Vincent van Port "Held der fliegenden Feder" R13 before 2013!
Collector of superb posts.
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Hunter 1v1 BA (moors)
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Originally Posted by zalladi
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unless I read the tooltip wrong and it can't be evaded.
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