Thread: Good Solo Warg Fights

I just wanted to thank eviliz and tailmage for standing their ground and having some great duels tonight with my champion Naugrimir. Tail, I thought we were going to have an epic third round until your buddies showed up.

Evil, I have never had a duel end with both of us dying at the same moment, that was pretty cool.

-Naugrimir

Both good wargs.

I've been having particularly good fun with Eviliz lately...that dog wont hold back AND will definitely use npcs to its advantage.

If a warg is standing in front of you waiting for the fight to begin, chances are they've already wasted one of their most powerful skills. This is why I insist they're NOT underpowered at ALL. Eviliz gets this fact. And we've had some really interesting 1:1 fights because of it.

Yeah I was able to kill eviliz but at the cost of my own life, but we have only fought once. I beat Tailmange twice in a row, and was about to kill him for the third time when a whole crew of creeps came up and killed me. All the fights were very close and very fun.

Tailey and Arcticey are awesome, and thats the sort of level I'd like to be one day....

Alas - too much beer, too much speaking, and not enough keyboard. Oh well - I try anyway

Love & Hugs

Fluffy Hithy

Originally Posted by Thane9

Both good wargs.

I've been having particularly good fun with Eviliz lately...that dog wont hold back AND will definitely use npcs to its advantage.

If a warg is standing in front of you waiting for the fight to begin, chances are they've already wasted one of their most powerful skills. This is why I insist they're NOT underpowered at ALL. Eviliz gets this fact. And we've had some really interesting 1:1 fights because of it.

Using npcs to your advantage makes you a good warg? What are the moors coming to?

Originally Posted by shilow7

Using npcs to your advantage makes you a good warg? What are the moors coming to?

Burz and Luc are of the opinion that using the NPCs/trees/topography are great PvP. While knowing and using your surroundings is smart, I think there is a severe lack of confidence when your combat approach is trying to stick NPCs on your opponent....

Originally Posted by shilow7

Using npcs to your advantage makes you a good warg? What are the moors coming to?

No, using STEALTH to your advantage makes you a good warg. Sometimes that's attacking when your opponent just engaged an npc, sometimes that's just getting into and out of combat.

I think this is the issue people don't understand why I think wargs are often problematic from a design perspective. They are NOT a Champion. They're not visible, they're not in the fight to the death. They have stealth for engaging and hips/sprint for disengaging and reengaging. Players who use those skills are EQUALLY powerful as a champ who uses all his cooldowns in a fight. EASILY. AND they have quicker/fewer cooldowns to manage.

IF they want to remove stealth from the game THEN wargs should match up to a melee dps class in a toe to toe fight. But stealth is still around, and in general they should remain weaker in that face to face fighting because of it.

This is just another reason on the pile why fightclubbing is so lame. It removes those strengths from certain classes making other classes feel as if they're OP, or that they need to not use certain skills to be "fair".

I'd rather be challenged by EVERYTHING a creep can throw at me and know I need to dig deep and use EVERYTHING I have at my fingertips than play this game of "oohh he's a "bad" player because he uses X skill".

We've lost that on Landy. I remember when it was all out. When if you saw a creep you attacked a creep, not stand around to make sure no one else jumps in THEN decide to participate to "even" things up.

Warginator NEVER held back from attacking me in Grothum. I can's speak for his intentions, or if he waited for me to overpull, or if he waited for me to not pull..but I do know that it was ON when we fought. No matter when or where. THAT's what makes a good warg. THAT's what makes a good player. IMHO.

---

I have taken to literally killing NPCs in some locations just waiting for a creep to come around. Why? They feel underpowered and won't even reveal themselves or fight me if I'm not otherwise engaged. Heck, if that's what it takes then bring it on. I'd rather lose a fight because I was knee deep in orcs than win at riding around seeing nothing. I've mastered the latter, I'm over it.

Eviliz has been bringing the fight, npcs, no npcs, group or no group, I win or he wins. That's worthy of note these days. Sad that it is...but it is...

Originally Posted by soccercake7

Burz and Luc are of the opinion that using the NPCs/trees/topography are great PvP. While knowing and using your surroundings is smart, I think there is a severe lack of confidence when your combat approach is trying to stick NPCs on your opponent....

I'm of the opinion that there are matchups that will ALWAYS end the same way. Things that can balance the tables are worth using.

I'll say it. ANY WARG on this server, if I have all my cooldowns and they're visible standing in front of me and engage me in melee (ala the fightclubbing garbage) I will win 99% of the time (barring some weird crit spike and not counting server stability issues). Guarentee. That's not bragging, that's not making things up, that doesn't make my class OP...you know why?

Because in OPEN PvMP this is never the case. And in an OPEN fight, where the warg can dictate how and when and where the fight starts I go from an Arctic type fight (Arctic is probably the closest to a stand up melee fight of any warg) of close to 50% even without using all my cooldowns, to a Eviliz type fight of 50% where I have to blow everything I have everytime.

I'm not saying one is better than the other. I have a great deal of respect for Arctic and several wargs on our server. I'm just saying when a warg brings the fight, no matter HOW they do it, it's admirable. Why? because at least they're not calling out airstrikes and sitting in stealth waiting to just zerg you repeatedly. And if you don't think there are wargs on our server that do just that, then you're completely mistaken.

Anyhow, thanks to ANY warg who gives the good fight. Whatever that looks like. Stealth and in particular stealth tracking opens up a lot of playstyle opportunities that can be extremely griefy...and to those who choose to PvMP instead I salute you.

I do agree that when I am playing my champ I rarely lose to wargs and maybe have only done so one time in 1v1 when it was a "stand up" fight. This by no means is because of my skill in pvp, as some have accurately described "I am a keyturning skill clicking noob." However, I do get trashed quite frequently by wargs when I am in grothum and half my health is gone because I just pulled 6 npcs to try and farm some quests quickly. I do enjoy a standup fight where I get jumped at full health by a warg with my cooldowns available, but I don't expect it. Wargs are hunters and good on them for making a smart attack against a more durable opponent. There are some creep classes that I just cannot bring down as a champion, once again maybe because I am a noob. I had a very long fight with I believe burglartarget the other day in grothum and he was actually kind enough to wait for me to get done killing an npc that respawned mid fight before he continued to defeat me. It just seems like some defilers or warleaders are just impossible for me to bring down unless I get lucky. Which is probably how many wargs feel about fighting champions without using every advantage possible.

-Naugrimir

Originally Posted by Thane9

I'm of the opinion that there are matchups that will ALWAYS end the same way. Things that can balance the tables are worth using.

I'll say it. ANY WARG on this server, if I have all my cooldowns and they're visible standing in front of me and engage me in melee (ala the fightclubbing garbage) I will win 99% of the time (barring some weird crit spike and not counting server stability issues). Guarentee. That's not bragging, that's not making things up, that doesn't make my class OP...you know why?

Because in OPEN PvMP this is never the case. And in an OPEN fight, where the warg can dictate how and when and where the fight starts I go from an Arctic type fight (Arctic is probably the closest to a stand up melee fight of any warg) of close to 50% even without using all my cooldowns, to a Eviliz type fight of 50% where I have to blow everything I have everytime.

Right. I agree. Line it up and tell me to expect it and it's 99% too. When I fight club, I turn around as if I'm not expecting it and do nothing preliminary. In fact, I make myself even weaker than if they caught me in the open world. Needless to say, I lose 99% of my fight clubs....


BUT, if someone does such a great job at catching you off guard. Take it. You got beat. Don't drag it into NPCs and make it ugly. Might as well be calling in your friends or trying to escape.

For instance, one time Gutlard caught me like coming down that Lugz/xr/Wtab hill area. I couldn't find him. It was hilarious. My camera was angled down from the drop in the hill. My mount did something ridiculous. And I think my cat was licking my hair. Like, kudos. He was probably in some bush or behind some tree up higher than I was. But I'm not gonna run away to NPCs or cheapen his kill. It was hilarious because of how caught off guard I was. It was my favorite death.

I'm mostly agreeing with you Luc. Creeps have it good now and it's great competition. But I think a lot of players, and mostly wargs, play a gross 'caught-ya!!' pvp. Maniia literally F-ed me up last night. Just brutal. awful. It hurt. He's a good warg. But take Alpa. He only attacks me when I have NPCs. It's gross; and for that reason, I beat him everytime because there is a poetic justice of vengeance skill that LMs get. It's a buff that allows us to hit really big when someone plays bad pvp.

Originally Posted by soccercake7

Right. I agree. Line it up and tell me to expect it and it's 99% too. When I fight club, I turn around as if I'm not expecting it and do nothing preliminary. In fact, I make myself even weaker than if they caught me in the open world. Needless to say, I lose 99% of my fight clubs....


BUT, if someone does such a great job at catching you off guard. Take it. You got beat. Don't drag it into NPCs and make it ugly. Might as well be calling in your friends or trying to escape.

For instance, one time Gutlard caught me like coming down that Lugz/xr/Wtab hill area. I couldn't find him. It was hilarious. My camera was angled down from the drop in the hill. My mount did something ridiculous. And I think my cat was licking my hair. Like, kudos. He was probably in some bush or behind some tree up higher than I was. But I'm not gonna run away to NPCs or cheapen his kill. It was hilarious because of how caught off guard I was. It was my favorite death.

I'm mostly agreeing with you Luc. Creeps have it good now and it's great competition. But I think a lot of players, and mostly wargs, play a gross 'caught-ya!!' pvp. Maniia literally F-ed me up last night. Just brutal. awful. It hurt. He's a good warg. But take Alpa. He only attacks me when I have NPCs. It's gross; and for that reason, I beat him everytime because there is a poetic justice of vengeance skill that LMs get. It's a buff that allows us to hit really big when someone plays bad pvp.

Well, I'm sorry if I'm not explaining my position in a way that makes sense to everyone.

I think call outs are so significantly different than utalizing surprise or npcs that it's not even on the same radar screen.

Why is it "cheapening" or "ugly" to fight amongst npcs? Some of the best fights I've ever had were in/around the old hotspots, even to this day those are fights I'll never forget. A well timed flip and things got real interesting real fast.

The single best thing about the moors to me is the vast and varied situations one can find themselves in.

Am I "cheapening" a fight when I run to jump off a cliff and if they follow remove their BPE to go along with my lack of BPE in fervour thereby giving me that edge?

Am I cheapening the fight by not standing by waiting for an opponent to finish an npc (or expecting them to stand by and wait for me) so we can have a "fair" fight, where fair is so unbelievebly complex and unlikely to happen anyhow?

Just yesterday I engaged a reaver, along the river after ROP flipped I KNEW more would be coming and a freep was on his horse nearby and didn't engage until a bug was spitting poison at me. I didn't have many of my cooldowns up (and neither of my heals) after another recent fight and I knew it was going to get ugly. Then the instant the freep joined a warg pounced.

NO ONE knew what was in it's entirety going to happen. I say, have at it and treat the other side like your opponent and always TRY to beat them. By giving 100% always you have the opportunity for good fights. By trying to make a judgement call and scale your effort to try and artifically make things "fair" you end up just upsetting everyone and never really being fair anyhow. There's no increase in "fair" so why try to game the system?

Attack the opposing side. Help and aid your side. That's the game. And I pity Turbine if they need to balance their game for people NOT playing that way. It'd be an insurmountable task. Better to always go all out and if there's a massive power discrepency then it'll become apparent and documented then Turbine has REAL information to go by.

Artifically set the stage and all that is thrown out.

Wargs have stealth. If the argument to balance them assumes no stealth, and not taking advantage of what stealth provides then they'd be WAY OP. They NEED to be balanced based on having that skill.

For that matter they should be further balanced based on their skills to exit and re-enter combat easier than most classes.

And I'm not picking on wargs specifically, that's just the case at hand...other classes have skillsets that are not part of a stand 10m away from each other and jump twice then start situation. Those classes need to be balanced based on OPEN PvMP not on toe to toe fighting.

Otherwise we don't need a new map, we just need to remove the map and have a 10x10 square box to fight in.

Originally Posted by Thane9

I'll say it. ANY WARG on this server, if I have all my cooldowns and they're visible standing in front of me and engage me in melee (ala the fightclubbing garbage) I will win 99% of the time (barring some weird crit spike and not counting server stability issues). Guarentee. That's not bragging, that's not making things up, that doesn't make my class OP...you know why?

Challenge Accepted.

Originally Posted by shilow7

Challenge Accepted.

haha, makes me wanna dust off my warg lol

I was never able to beat Luc or Lee on my warg back when I was playing her pretty much exclusively years ago...I would think good wargs would have a much better chance now given they're as powerful as they have ever been. I know Arctic and Dirtluk probably do it in straight up fights with no surprise factor pretty regularly. Careful, Luc

I've had some very good fights with most wargs.. but there are some that are darn near impossible.

Arctic - a pure beast of a warg. He'll go toe to toe and just demolish most players
Dirluk - another very tough warg. I thought I had him once and he used a very interesting and successful strategy that basically DOT'd me to death

Not to say you don't stand a chance Luc .. but 99% seems like an unlikely percentage to maintain against some of Landy's best wargs

Warg fights are my second favorite -- right after reaver fights. You just never know when you're going to get pounced, and when you do, you have to instantly switch to fight gear. It's great.

Don't know about anyone recently, but after Malicious went on to other characters, Arctic was always my favorite warg to find solo (or more realistically, for him to find me). Lots of wargs are great at soloing on their own terms; Arctic was one of the only ones who was excellent at soloing on any terms.

Also, it may just be the lack of Audacity, but wargs seem a lot tougher now than they were 6 months ago.

Originally Posted by Jamers

Warg fights are my second favorite -- right after reaver fights. You just never know when you're going to get pounced, and when you do, you have to instantly switch to fight gear. It's great.

Don't know about anyone recently, but after Malicious went on to other characters, Arctic was always my favorite warg to find solo (or more realistically, for him to find me). Lots of wargs are great at soloing on their own terms; Arctic was one of the only ones who was excellent at soloing on any terms.

Also, it may just be the lack of Audacity, but wargs seem a lot tougher now than they were 6 months ago.

Wargs are a lot tougher.
Reavers are a lot weaker, surprisingly weaker in fact.

Editing to add: I LOVE that you still swap gear. Awesome.

I have my sprint weapon swap...but that's about it these days.

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

I was never able to beat Luc or Lee on my warg back when I was playing her pretty much exclusively years ago...I would think good wargs would have a much better chance now given they're as powerful as they have ever been. I know Arctic and Dirtluk probably do it in straight up fights with no surprise factor pretty regularly. Careful, Luc

If I use all my cooldowns, and have no surprise engagement...literally toe to toe...yeah..I think it's reasonable to suggest a Champ is not going to lose.

The KEY to making a warg competative is that initial pounce from stealth. Not to mention hips/sprint and disengage/reengage. They get several times more powerful when those skills are utalized.

I'm NOT talking about fights "in the field" where wargs get to utalize those skills. Obviously, I'm LUCKY to hold a 50% win ratio with those top wargs in those cases.

Sure I guess with your all CDs including manheal you'd probably win. Wargs just don't have the CDs that rival a champ's. Still, I'd be curious how you'd fair against the two I mentioned. I have seen them both good melee to absolute shreds. They're incredible movers.

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

Sure I guess with your all CDs including manheal you'd probably win. Wargs just don't have the CDs that rival a champ's. Still, I'd be curious how you'd fair against the two I mentioned. I have seen them both good melee to absolute shreds. They're incredible movers.

I haven't managed to find Dirt recently, I'm ~50/50 with Arctic (correct me if I'm wrong Arctic) mostly depending on which cooldowns I have available and/or how bad that initial burst he does hits me.

Oh and btw...manheal is the WORST cooldown of ANY. Heck, I'd rather have a Pot availble than manheal. It's a self root, it's slow to fire, and it's really not much morale. YUCK!

So I'll change my statement...all my CDs except Manheal, visible warg 10m away, able to engage in combat prior to their ooc stealth. Essentially forcing them to use Hips and/or Sprint to stealth.

Originally Posted by Thane9

I haven't managed to find Dirt recently, I'm ~50/50 with Arctic (correct me if I'm wrong Arctic) mostly depending on which cooldowns I have available and/or how bad that initial burst he does hits me.

Oh and btw...manheal is the WORST cooldown of ANY. Heck, I'd rather have a Pot availble than manheal. It's a self root, it's slow to fire, and it's really not much morale. YUCK!

So I'll change my statement...all my CDs except Manheal, visible warg 10m away, able to engage in combat prior to their ooc stealth. Essentially forcing them to use Hips and/or Sprint to stealth.

Flayer stance...will rip you up from either one of them. I'd bet on it...but we shall see.

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

Flayer stance...will rip you up from either one of them. I'd bet on it...but we shall see.

They haven't yet. But yeah...I'd be happy to get the chance to see.

I wonder when the next export to the test server is? I'd hate to have to grind audacity over there a second time.

Originally Posted by Jamers

Warg fights are my second favorite -- right after reaver fights. You just never know when you're going to get pounced, and when you do, you have to instantly switch to fight gear. It's great.

Don't know about anyone recently, but after Malicious went on to other characters, Arctic was always my favorite warg to find solo (or more realistically, for him to find me). Lots of wargs are great at soloing on their own terms; Arctic was one of the only ones who was excellent at soloing on any terms.

Also, it may just be the lack of Audacity, but wargs seem a lot tougher now than they were 6 months ago.

Arctic is a beast!!
I would hate to come across him in a dark alley when he is hungry.

Originally Posted by Thane9

Wargs are a lot tougher.
Reavers are a lot weaker, surprisingly weaker in fact.

Editing to add: I LOVE that you still swap gear. Awesome.

I have my sprint weapon swap...but that's about it these days.

It's mostly just LI swapping right now... I miss the days when I used to carry around mitigation sets. Maybe once I get a bunch of the audacity sets I can fool around with those.

Haven't been able to gauge reaver fights yet... but you're right; wargs definitely feel stronger.

Originally Posted by Jamers

Don't know about anyone recently, but after Malicious went on to other characters,

Not too many folks remember Malicious.

Originally Posted by Reichpapers

Not too many folks remember Malicious.

Or likely recall him fondly.

He squeezed every drop of ability out of that class.