Thread: Just balance this game...

Please Turbine? Preeeeettty please? I don't want to have to go to GW2 (because it looks so awesome)... I want to keep playing but you give me no choice with the state of PvP right now. Just give creeps more damage, more healing, and more skills in general, and for the love of God, make skill costs actually make sense, 2k+ comms for ANY skill is absolutely ridiculous, especially if its below rank 5.

I agree comms suck but creeps are meant to be weaker. its quantity over quality for us while freeps are the opposite. it adds difference between the classes and is something that is working fine in my opinion. That's why freeps are P2P and creeps are F2P. sure soem balance is needed but this games PVP is not completely broken. infact i think it is interesting and fun even though at times it gets annoyign

Originally Posted by dragerslayer

it... is ... working fine in my opinion. That's why freeps are P2P and creeps are F2P. sure soem balance is needed but this games PVP is not completely broken. infact i think it is interesting and fun even though at times it gets annoyign

Says the freep.....have you tried a creep? And creeps are just as P2P as freeps are. Creeps can buy skills as long as they have cash or TPs. Which tells me you DON'T have a creep. And freeps can get to the moors when they are F2P as well. They just have to grind and grind and grind. Creeps don't get half the skills freeps at the same level get. As far as quantity over quality, if you want to open that can of worms then fraids and froups should only be allowed to be 1/2 the size they are. that would give you 12x24, which, by your opinion, is just fine. How many freeps are gonna let that happen without QQing?

PVP in screwed in this game. It may as well be Farmville for the freeps.

Ettenmoors effectively stopped attracting new players creep side. All traits/abilities cost rediculous amounts and it is almost impossible to play a new creep these days. You'll be rank 4 by the time you can buy ONE ability with commendations, in the past you would have earned enough DP to buy 7+ abilities and 5+ traits.

So once GW2 releases and the vet creeps leave (because anyone playing a creep is interested more in PvP than PvE or 'casual keep flipping') which is exactly what kind of playerbase GW2 attracts. The ettenmoors will be a barren wasteland, no new creeps and the majority of veteran creeps will have quit for a F2P MMO that has a PvP centric niche as opposed to SWTOR/Rift/Aion (which was more a generic MMO with emphasis on PvE).

GW2 will not have a huge impact on LOTRO raiding or freepside. But freeps are going to be surprised when all there is to do is flip keeps in the ettenmoors with no opposition.

Originally Posted by dragerslayer

I agree comms suck but creeps are meant to be weaker. its quantity over quality for us while freeps are the opposite. it adds difference between the classes and is something that is working fine in my opinion. That's why freeps are P2P and creeps are F2P. sure soem balance is needed but this games PVP is not completely broken. infact i think it is interesting and fun even though at times it gets annoyign

Quality over quantity can't work unless they essentially make everything free to play for creeps; the way it is now absolutely NO new players will stick with creepside. It's just a bad design idea anyways, who actually WANTS to play a weaker gimped side that requires you to group up and zerg in order to win?

For a good rounded game, PvP needs to be present and as polished as possible. With just some simple balance, doesn't even have to be truly equal just better than what it is now, we'd get that with LOTRO and far less people would be leaving for other games. Some people (including me) came back from SWTOR... many others did not. If this game had a good PvP aspect, a lot of people would come back.'

Right now, balance is marginally better, or possibly equal to MoM release PvMP. It's awful- minstrels and wardens don't die unless beaten upon by 4+ creeps, probably every freep class can outdps reavers, and RKs + hunters can basically one shot things (albeit without audacity, but have fun getting 36k comms, which is making 72k infamy).

Something really needs to be done... I want to keep playing this game, PvE is fun.

Originally Posted by Spacmanbobr

Something really needs to be done... I want to keep playing this game, PvE is fun.

It's fun up to a point. Other games still have better PvE. For me, the only thing that has really held me is PvMP.

Unless something changes I'll be part of the GW2 pack.
Probably still visit back for the lols and such.

And as someone who plays a freep 100% now I agree. (Note- My issues with creepside are personal and came before U6). Defiler heal stacking was a step in the right direction, but certain classes, i.e. reavers, could use a serious DPS boost.

Originally Posted by Commish

The ettenmoors will be a barren wasteland, no new creeps and the majority of veteran creeps will have quit

That's what is always said before a new game is released.

Everyone comes back to LOTRO.

Originally Posted by DreagonMK

For some bizarre reason Turbine decided that it should cost creeps 42k comms for 7 audacity. Only 36k for freeps.

And as someone who plays a freep 100% now I agree. (Note- My issues with creepside are personal and came before U6). Defiler heal stacking was a step in the right direction, but certain classes, i.e. reavers, could use a serious DPS boost.

36k for creeps (the first rank is free) and 35k for freeps.

Originally Posted by CarltheRed

That's what is always said before a new game is released.

Everyone comes back to LOTRO.

Doubtful - First time in 5 years I am considering leaving especially after a great GW2 weekend. Sure its not 100% perfect but they have 5 years to peak whereas its taken 5 years for LOTRO to get its act together and still were waiting.....

Originally Posted by CarltheRed

That's what is always said before a new game is released.

Everyone comes back to LOTRO.

That's a bit of a naive statement.
About 20 of windfola's creep veterans left for star wars and have not come back.

Kinda messed things up, as they were carrying things and were probably the servers peak of creepside progress.
I would have been over there with them, had I been able to afford the subscription.

So no, not everyone comes back to lotro.

I know a bunch of people who still play this game not because they want to, but because they are addicted.



As far as the ettenmoors looking to be a wasteland, turbine does seem to be heading in that direction.

When everyone of the playerbase can agree upon common problems that simply aren't fixed, then those problems exist for a reason.

@quig same boat, been here 5 years. Have never even touched another game simply because none were innovative or interesting enough to take my attention. Case is changed now.

Originally Posted by Felajarko

Says the freep.....have you tried a creep? And creeps are just as P2P as freeps are. Creeps can buy skills as long as they have cash or TPs.

At some point though you become "paid for". You don't have to keep "buying" skills. And if you chose to not use the store you can get all your skills without spending a dime albeit through an obscene grind.

Originally Posted by Felajarko

And freeps can get to the moors when they are F2P as well. They just have to grind and grind and grind.

Umm, no. IIRC Freep PvMP is only available to lifetime members and subscribers. There was an exploit that allowed F2P freeps in the moors, but it's been fixed afaik.

Originally Posted by Spacmanbobr

I don't want to have to go to GW2 (because it looks so awesome)...

Originally Posted by Commish

So once GW2 releases and the vet creeps leave (because anyone playing a creep is interested more in PvP than PvE or 'casual keep flipping') which is exactly what kind of playerbase GW2 attracts. The ettenmoors will be a barren wasteland, no new creeps and the majority of veteran creeps will have quit for a F2P MMO that has a PvP centric niche as opposed to SWTOR/Rift/Aion (which was more a generic MMO with emphasis on PvE).

GW2 will not have a huge impact on LOTRO raiding or freepside. But freeps are going to be surprised when all there is to do is flip keeps in the ettenmoors with no opposition.

Originally Posted by Untg99

Unless something changes I'll be part of the GW2 pack.

Originally Posted by Quig

Doubtful - First time in 5 years I am considering leaving especially after a great GW2 weekend. Sure its not 100% perfect but they have 5 years to peak whereas its taken 5 years for LOTRO to get its act together and still were waiting.....

I had a great weekend.

Its funny and sad at the same time to see long-time freeps like Spacmanbobr and Beleg-of-Doriath and many other demand balancing in favor of creeps.

Sadly, its to late, and Turbine is not listening anyway.

As a lifetimer, I will "stay" at LOTRO, in some way. But I will definitely get me a GW2 copy, learn this new game and join in the fray. I never claimed to leave for Conan, Warhammer, Rift and all the other "PVMP-killers". This time, I will be gone.

Originally Posted by doug01

At some point though you become "paid for". You don't have to keep "buying" skills. And if you chose to not use the store you can get all your skills without spending a dime albeit through an obscene grind.

Commendations was supposed to help alleviate the grind by encouraging PvP. However, it has done the opposite. And a new creep will never have all of their skills without spending money and TPs. The costs are outrageous for a creep to buy their skills and someone starting a new creep is pretty much screwed from the start. They will never catch up to all of their skills with just commendations. They have to pay money. They are just as 'paid for' as freeps.

Originally Posted by doug01

4Umm, no. IIRC Freep PvMP is only available to lifetime members and subscribers. There was an exploit that allowed F2P freeps in the moors, but it's been fixed afaik.

I stand corrected on this point then. I am a subscriber so I don't know for sure. But looking in the forums I see I was mistaken.

Originally Posted by CarltheRed

That's what is always said before a new game is released.

Everyone comes back to LOTRO.

Very, very untrue. I am among a small percentage that came back to LOTRO after SWTOR, and I'm already considering leaving again after being back for less than a month. In my guild, we lost about 14 people to SWTOR, only me and one other person came back to this game.

I want to keep playing this game, LOTR is the greatest fantasy IP. However, it's slowly becoming not fun at all anymore, so I have no choice but to quit. If Turbine cares anything for their longtime veteran players, they'll do something besides giving us a new little portrait and new creep skins and actually ####ing improve the aspects of game play that we care about.

Originally Posted by CarltheRed

That's what is always said before a new game is released.

Everyone comes back to LOTRO.

That is what I always think, but GW2 has the attractions that pvmp has with balance. Other MMOs have always been ###### with horrible pvmp. GW2 beta was amazing and the pvp is balanced. This one will definitely put a good dent in the moors.

Originally Posted by Spacmanbobr

Very, very untrue. I am among a small percentage that came back to LOTRO after SWTOR, and I'm already considering leaving again after being back for less than a month. In my guild, we lost about 14 people to SWTOR, only me and one other person came back to this game.

I want to keep playing this game, LOTR is the greatest fantasy IP. However, it's slowly becoming not fun at all anymore, so I have no choice but to quit. If Turbine cares anything for their longtime veteran players, they'll do something besides giving us a new little portrait and new creep skins and actually ####ing improve the aspects of game play that we care about.

Amen, I too lost quite a few friends to SWTOR and I enjoy the LOTRO IP, just this game has lost all appeal. I am going to be one of the D3/GW2 people it looks like, simply because fewer and fewer of my friends are sticking around with LOTRO. I likely will come and see changes to my Reaver from time to time, but I fear my majority of gaming time(already not much ) will no longer be spent in Middle Earth. So if there was one thing that could bring me back for an extended period in the future would be a major PvP overhaul(new mechanics, maps, fights etc. not just class tweaking to FOTM status), and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Originally Posted by Commish

Ettenmoors effectively stopped attracting new players creep side.

IF you check surugi.com you'll see freep and creep population has been pretty steady for the last 8 weeks, in fact this last week has been one of the best this year for creep population. New creeps are coming in as old ones leave.

Originally Posted by Commish

So once GW2 releases and the vet creeps leave (because anyone playing a creep is interested more in PvP than PvE or 'casual keep flipping') which is exactly what kind of playerbase GW2 attracts. The ettenmoors will be a barren wasteland, no new creeps and the majority of veteran creeps will have quit for a F2P MMO that has a PvP centric niche as opposed to SWTOR/Rift/Aion (which was more a generic MMO with emphasis on PvE).

GW2 will not have a huge impact on LOTRO raiding or freepside. But freeps are going to be surprised when all there is to do is flip keeps in the ettenmoors with no opposition.

I have no doubt the PvP in GW2 will be better. I have no doubt it will impact the moors population. As to a "barren" moors, I have no doubt you'll be wrong. As stated in several other threads, games come and go, so do players. Should I list all the games that were going to cause the once and for all server shutdown of LOTRO?

Landy Moors will be barren, 40+ creep vets have already formed a guild. These are creeps that are online nightly, and include all of the current leaders. There will be no oppoistion to freeps, they will have free riegn of the zone.

I also hear there is a freep guild that formed, numbers not known.

If a large number, that could possibly wipe out all of the "regular" pvmp population.

Landy pvmp will be dead, it will be reduced to another pve zone for those that stay.

The problem with Creep population is not numbers, but even 3 new ones can´t replace one veteran

Originally Posted by DreagonMK

For some bizarre reason Turbine decided that it should cost creeps 42k comms for 7 audacity. Only 36k for freeps.

And as someone who plays a freep 100% now I agree. (Note- My issues with creepside are personal and came before U6). Defiler heal stacking was a step in the right direction, but certain classes, i.e. reavers, could use a serious DPS boost.

I thought i snuffed out this stupid notion in another thread, guess its spreading rather fast.

Originally Posted by CRUSHUC

Landy Moors will be barren, 40+ creep vets have already formed a guild. These are creeps that are online nightly, and include all of the current leaders. There will be no oppoistion to freeps, they will have free riegn of the zone.

I also hear there is a freep guild that formed, numbers not known.

If a large number, that could possibly wipe out all of the "regular" pvmp population.

Landy pvmp will be dead, it will be reduced to another pve zone for those that stay.

This EXACT same thing has happened when other games launched. Before 90% of our current creeps played, there was a large, and much more formidable force than what creeps have today on our server. There has never been a more organized and dangerous tribe on our server - not before and not since. Probably never will be. They all left and went to TOR. Years before, most of Agony left for Warhammer online. The Moors will be empty for a while and then fill back up; just like every time.

People leave and the game goes on. People come back and the game has gone on without them. Many of us that left for TOR came back months later - and those that didn't are missed but it's gone on just as it always has.

Eventually the Moors will die as it's not being developed. But it's not going to be because of GW2 or any other game. It'll be because Turbine chose not to develop it and the players eventually just peter out.

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

Eventually the Moors will die as it's not being developed. But it's not going to be because of GW2 or any other game. It'll be because Turbine chose not to develop it and the players eventually just peter out.

This is exactly it. Another game will not be the downfall of Lotro, it will be and has been the lack of attention given to a vital part of Lotro by the developers.

I love Lotro. It is a stunning game which I have been a part of since beta. But PvP an extension of the game and speaks more to the war of the rings then any amount of PvE content or store horse or hat. I played in the GW2 beat, and have prepaid for the game. And like many of my friends, I had the best time I have had pvping there since the great days of Agony, Pwnys and Shadowclan.

I will be around in Lotro for updates to the story line, and look forward to Rohans release. I am a lifetime acct holder, so it is not going to break me to leave it sitting on the back burner simmering, where once it was at a full boil. But as far as Lotro's PvP goes I have joined the devs in just not caring any more.

Originally Posted by Gillianrial

This EXACT same thing has happened when other games launched. Before 90% of our current creeps played, there was a large, and much more formidable force than what creeps have today on our server. There has never been a more organized and dangerous tribe on our server - not before and not since. Probably never will be. They all left and went to TOR. Years before, most of Agony left for Warhammer online. The Moors will be empty for a while and then fill back up; just like every time.

People leave and the game goes on. People come back and the game has gone on without them. Many of us that left for TOR came back months later - and those that didn't are missed but it's gone on just as it always has.

Eventually the Moors will die as it's not being developed. But it's not going to be because of GW2 or any other game. It'll be because Turbine chose not to develop it and the players eventually just peter out.

This same scenario captures many (most?) server experiences I would wager. BW and E being somewhat insulated due to pop size and "vet" creeps from other servers moving there.

It will be interesting to see what GW2 does to the moors, after experiencing the bwe though once its live it would be hard to justify being a full time creep in lotro w/o some changes. Lotro has a strong story/lore etc, but that is primarily freepside pve. The real test will be post GW2 launch combined with a new lotro "season" start....do folks return to get on the comms treadmill again....or just say f'it and fade away.

New players historically have joined the game to fill the lost creep ranks (creepside generally has high churn) - but at the moment (if left unchanged) life of a new creep is anything but inviting to new players (potency and comms pricing).

Likely Turbine response?: maybe start new "season" close to GW2 launch - get people 1/2 pregnant and either sticking it out, or returning to finish off the comms grind, and likely a revision of lowbie creeps (at least skill/trait pricing) to encourage more to try it out?....who knows though.

As for "balance" - be great if it was closer.....but prolly never going to happen in this games current format (and I don't see a ftp PVE focussed game as old as lotro doing a large overhaul of the pvp tack-on content). Would love to be surprised though

Originally Posted by chrisCML

Likely Turbine response?: maybe start new "season" close to GW2 launch - get people 1/2 pregnant and either sticking it out, or returning to finish off the comms grind, and likely a revision of lowbie creeps (at least skill/trait pricing) to encourage more to try it out?....who knows though.

Option 1: Go and play GW2 after having a tonne of fun with the beta weekend/s.

Option 2: Re-do the commendation grind all over again for 5 active PvMPing characters.

Hmm, decisions decisions...

Originally Posted by doug01

IF you check surugi.com you'll see freep and creep population has been pretty steady for the last 8 weeks, in fact this last week has been one of the best this year for creep population. New creeps are coming in as old ones leave.

How many are the same people grinding easy pvpless commendations? I'd stand to argue probably a lot.
Current moors model is not in any way attractive to new creeps.

As far as older creeps leaving and new ones coming in.
Say this is true, then it's just going to be more of the same story it's been for the last bunch of years. Freep purplepoints farmfest.

I've already given up on this game, I pretty much almost never log in anymore, I have a lifetime membership so me being 'gone' forever probably won't happen but I don't plan on blowing anymore money on a game that has no direction at all. Players are completely out of the loop when improving the game is needed, I mean i've seen thousands of quality threads listing good ways to handle issues like balance and the like yet not a single one was ever implemented in the slightest.

Turbine needs to just get off their high horse of being the developers and listen to ideas given by people who probably care for the game just as much as them.Of course this is just going to fall on deaf ears as they will just delete/lock the thread to sweep it under the rug and even though even if they pick up their act I probably won't come back at least they could start doing right for the players who are loyal enough to stick with them.

Honestly I rather play no games at all then play lotro, thats how sad this situation has become.

I log off lotro to play Re:5 no joke. Its crazy that a old console game is more balanced and "enjoyable." Diablo 3 15th good times ahead.

Honestly, I am now getting more enjoyment out of reading the GW2 Beta forums than logging in to LoTRO and going out to the Moors(just forget PvE).

I am logging in and trying to get myself excited about it...kinda hard. I will be going to GW2 after experiencing the BWE. On high gfx setting with the unoptimized GW2 client, no lag of any sort (unexpected) and only a couple crashes (expected). Long into the moors, try to run down the stairs from GV...lag...try to chase a warg close by and use skills...lag... just kinda sad. Combat feels so slow and antiquated now that I have played GW2. Being a lifer however I will always be around because I enjoy the people and the theme of this game.

For what its worth, imo GW2 will not quite be a game to "kill" any other game because it is a onetime purchase and requires no subscription. So those people with limited funds will still be able to play their sub game AS WELL AS GW2. I think monetary decisions kill games when people have to decide where to place their funds. People will only be deciding where to spend their time.

When LoTRO starts losing the "time" battle over a longer period than the initial release then you will see the drop off in the moors.

Look at it this way, if someone was to get 6 months of fun out of a $60 investment on GW2 they are earning the same return on their money as a $10 sub in LoTRO and more most likely than a console game which don't often last people a month. GW2 will keep evolving however, where is the downside? I paid $60 for the original GW and still play it 8 years later.