Thread: Tell us who to blame!

There are several classes with special skills that affect everyone around them. Many use them in crowded places to get everyone doing things and it is really disturbing to be in the middle of something and suddenly someone comes in and makes you do things that visually interfer with what you are trying to do for yourself. Out of respect for other players, my characters that have any of these toons do not even put them on the quickbars so that they are not tempted to do unto others what I don't want them doing to me!!

Since you won't lock these skills to only affect those the player is grouped with, or give players a toggle to opt out of being affected (at least on our monitor), or block these things from happening in any place players have to gather (AH or crafft hall for example), then PLEASE put up an emote message that Tells Us Who To Blame!!!!

A message like 'SillyMinstrel plays a tune and causes all those around them to dance' or 'CaptainA forces everyone to bend their knee to him' or 'CrazyChump makes everyone in room cheer because he has entered'. The same should be true for all those special festival functions that make you bend over in fear or surrender or give you a snow swirl.

This would allow us to let the offending players know in game that we do not appreciate their antics when used in inapproriate (to us) locations. We could even go so far as to put them on Ignore and hopefully then we would never again be affected by their nuisance skills.

Check your combat log. It'll tell you *Xyz has cast a benefit of *Boast* on you* or words to that effect, depending on what is cast. That's how I know who to send the tell to, letting them know I am adding them to my ignore list.

Originally Posted by Dworin

Check your combat log. It'll tell you *Xyz has cast a benefit of *Boast* on you* or words to that effect, depending on what is cast. That's how I know who to send the tell to, letting them know I am adding them to my ignore list.

Out of curiosity, why do you tell them you're adding them to your ignore list? Odds are they're not going to care.

Originally Posted by Armaius

Out of curiosity, why do you tell them you're adding them to your ignore list? Odds are they're not going to care.

In the hope they'll realize they should cast such things on people who want to go along with it and not cast forced emotes on random people who are just trying to play the game without their interference.

Kinda makes me hope they give you all a toggle, so we can have our fun and you can have your peace...

Kinda like installing a soundproof wall so the kids can play music without the crochety old man whining about the kids and their having a good time and such and back in your day five miles uphill and we threw rocks at each other.

I dunno how something meant as an innocent emote garners so much hatred. It's not like someone's setting you on fire in the middle of a boss fight (and if someone is, it's probably the boss...)

Ignore list worthy? Not really, unless someone's running after you targetting every time their CD is up.

It's no more or less annoying than someone playing a cowbell randomly nearby when you're trying to srsly play a song (which happens often).

One additional point. Although you are talking about the class-based skills like 'boast', 'joke' and 'dance', there are also several consumable toys available from festivals which can eg. 'haunt' other players. So, in theory, any member of any class could be perpetrating the nuisance.

Your "innocent emote garners so much hatred" when it is used over, and over, and over again in crowded places like the Bree vaults or the auction houses. Often they're used by several players at once, all competing with each other to see who can be the most annoying. Used once in a group of like minded players, these emotes can add a great deal to the ambiance of the game. Used as griefing tools, they can quickly grind on the nerves of even the most open minded players.

Originally Posted by Iorothiel

I dunno how something meant as an innocent emote garners so much hatred

It either bothers you or it doesn't. If it does bother you, chances are it REALLY bothers you.

If you have to ask, you'll never understand.

And I am aware that I might never understand. I also look at it from the standpoint that it has literally no affect at all.

If a griefer's gonna grief, they're gonna grief no matter what they have, or how they do it. It's not tagging my mobs or nodes. It's not stealing my exp. It's not getting me killed in the middle of nowhere.

It's a harmless fire or maybe a bucket, maybe your toon does something (movement is not impeded for all but like...three) for a couple seconds. I guess people may not like the looks of it?

I don't understand.

But I don't want to live in terror that something I may do might have someone randomly exploding tells on me because two seconds of their game looked a bit different.

So, give you your toggles. Let me have my fun. I've never actually seen someone grief with the emotes--I probably never will. Maybe it's server-based. I don't know. I will be severely disappointed if what I did work for is removed, however.

And if a toggle is the solution (maybe like a permanent serious business buff on a player?) then it should apply in reverse--someone with it cannot use the skills at all with it on, and it needs a CD for going on and off (so people won't put it off, do something and put it back on).

So if you're stood in the auction house and some captain makes you kneel or a champion makes you cheer or a minstrel makes you dance it's the end of the world is it?

Out of nothing more than morbid curiosity is it players on role playing servers that are up in arms over this heinous crime or any old server? to a degree I can understand role players being irked somewhat but on a standard server I'd probably fall off my chair laughing if I got a tell informing me that I was going on someones ignore list for making them cower whilst a large dragon breathed fire at them - oh and as said already I'd care more if I missed the start of a party political broadcast by the monster raving loony party.

Over on Eldar it goes on sometimes in Galtrev stood near the Milestone, can't say I've ever seen anyone get upset over it, during the yule festival when players were armed with snowballs by the ton it was hilarious watching half a dozen players lob stuff around at each other non stop. I threw enough to get the perfect snowball skill, and yes I do still use it but quite frankly to call using something like that griefing borders on the ridiculous.

Lighten up, there are people dying of starvation every day out there in that MMO called earth* and people worry about a player emote in a virtual world - priorities much?


*it has better graphics and no lag!

Originally Posted by Rampagingdeath

So if you're stood in the auction house and some captain makes you kneel or a champion makes you cheer or a minstrel makes you dance it's the end of the world is it?

Out of nothing more than morbid curiosity is it players on role playing servers that are up in arms over this heinous crime or any old server? to a degree I can understand role players being irked somewhat but on a standard server I'd probably fall off my chair laughing if I got a tell informing me that I was going on someones ignore list for making them cower whilst a large dragon breathed fire at them - oh and as said already I'd care more if I missed the start of a party political broadcast by the monster raving loony party.

Over on Eldar it goes on sometimes in Galtrev stood near the Milestone, can't say I've ever seen anyone get upset over it, during the yule festival when players were armed with snowballs by the ton it was hilarious watching half a dozen players lob stuff around at each other non stop. I threw enough to get the perfect snowball skill, and yes I do still use it but quite frankly to call using something like that griefing borders on the ridiculous.

Lighten up, there are people dying of starvation every day out there in that MMO called earth* and people worry about a player emote in a virtual world - priorities much?


*it has better graphics and no lag!

Are you paying my VIP subscription every month? No? Then why do you think you have the right to take control of my character and make him do what you want, even if only for a few seconds? You should NEVER have that right, ever. Control your own characters, leave mine alone.

Originally Posted by Dworin

Check your combat log. It'll tell you *Xyz has cast a benefit of *Boast* on you* or words to that effect, depending on what is cast. That's how I know who to send the tell to, letting them know I am adding them to my ignore list.

Only it doesn't any more.

Originally Posted by Rampagingdeath

So if you're stood in the auction house and some captain makes you kneel or a champion makes you cheer or a minstrel makes you dance it's the end of the world is it?

Are you paying my VIP subscription every month? No? Then why do you think you have the right to take control of my character and make him do what you want, even if only for a few seconds? You should NEVER have that right, ever. Control your own characters, leave mine alone.

I guess so, thanks for enlightening me, one small point - it isn't taking control of your character so don't be so melodramatic, if it we're I'd make people slap themselves or even better the character stood next to them - now that really would be funny.

Come to think of it, it'd be so funny that if Turbine introduce that ability I'll re-buy my lifetime sub 5 times over.

Originally Posted by Iorothiel

If a griefer's gonna grief, they're gonna grief no matter what they have, or how they do it.

While true, that doesn't excuse just *handing* griefers a tool to grief with...and then refusing to act on the resulting harassment tickets.

Originally Posted by Iorothiel

Kinda makes me hope they give you all a toggle, so we can have our fun and you can have your peace...

That's why I have suggested on a number of occasions that it is the best interest of those that like forced emotes to strongly support an "opt out" toggle....since the alternative would be to remove all forced emotes from the game altogether.

It's no more or less annoying than someone playing a cowbell randomly nearby when you're trying to srsly play a song (which happens often).

Player music can be set to zero volume so one doesn't have to listen to either of you.

Now if the ignore list would also suppress sound effects generated by other players (and not just chat text), that would solve most of your problem. If it suppressed forced emote actions, it would solve most of that problem. (It wouldn't completely solve either issue because you'd have to encounter each particular jerk once to get him on your ignore list.)

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by Rampagingdeath

I guess so, thanks for enlightening me, one small point - it isn't taking control of your character so don't be so melodramatic, if it we're I'd make people slap themselves or even better the character stood next to them - now that really would be funny.

Come to think of it, it'd be so funny that if Turbine introduce that ability I'll re-buy my lifetime sub 5 times over.

It is taking control. My character is forced to do something I do not want him to do; I am no longer in control of my character. He is doing what you want him to do, not what I want him to do.

Originally Posted by Dworin

Check your combat log. It'll tell you *Xyz has cast a benefit of *Boast* on you* or words to that effect, depending on what is cast. That's how I know who to send the tell to, letting them know I am adding them to my ignore list.

It tells me who I made salute or do the Bug stomping dance. It does not tell victim where it came from. Unless the target has me in view, able to see the application animation, they will never know who it came from.

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

It tells me who I made salute or do the Bug stomping dance. It does not tell victim where it came from. Unless the target has me in view, able to see the application animation, they will never know who it came from.

I beg to differ, because it does in my combat log. I always know who cast a forced emote on me. I have been afk, come back and found my character lying prone, and found the perpetrator. All you have to know is the name of the emote that has been cast, because it's right there, logged as: *Soandso has cast a benefit of *emote name* on you*

And does it make the rest of your day a horrifying symphony of misery and pain if you get a drive-by D.R.A.G.O.N? Do you feel the very violation of your soul when you see the Candle and Mirrors?

I do think people are making a mountain out of a molehill.

But I will still fight because I like these things. I like when they happen to me, I like when I can get into an emote war in a raid while waiting the 20 minutes for everyone to stop being afk (or the 40 to find a cappy at weird hours). I like that it adds some spice and difference to the game.

The complaining people have made the deeds take much more time to do (for example, a full retinue of emotes should take only 10hrs per festival (300*2mins): With the change, yule would take 75hrs (3 emote*5mins*300items), harvestmath emotes would take 175 hours--and this is assuming you cast them nonstop!) --and even at that there is no satisfaction?

I will not be pleased if they are removed completely. It would be a brick in the face of Fun for everyone who's worked hard for them, but would have no affect at all on everyone who hasn't.

I am seriously hoping turbine does give a toggle. AND if they do:

Reset the cooldown timers on the items to 2 minutes not shared.

Neither of us will be satisfied in this war (there will still be people who complain even if we do get a toggle, that's the nature of people).

And until a compromise is reached, it'll still be fought. You guys don't want to see our shiny things, we want to play with our shiny things.

And then we can find something new to fight about, I'm sure.

Nope, my day is not ruined, and once the perp gets his *Enjoy your stay on my ignore list, I hear it's lovely there this time of year" tell, I go back to doing what I wanted with my character, with one less perp I can interact with.

*shrug*

I liek it when ppl do these emotes on me becuz it means they are paying attention to me

I always blame Sapience for everything.

Originally Posted by melee_classes

I liek it when ppl do these emotes on me becuz it means they are paying attention to me

Holy Valar. Starved for attention, much?

Originally Posted by Phede

I always blame Sapience for everything.

HAHA, probly is his fault

Seriously... if you have a problem with other real life people emoting your toon with theirs.... you probly should not be playing an MMORPG. Yeah its a bit of overkill during the festivals, but it really doesnt affect anything at all. I used to get mad as well, then I stopped. Whats the point of getting mad??? So I rolled a champ

Originally Posted by Nikolidimitrivich

HAHA, probly is his fault

Seriously... if you have a problem with other real life people emoting your toon with theirs.... you probly should not be playing an MMORPG. Yeah its a bit of overkill during the festivals, but it really doesnt affect anything at all. I used to get mad as well, then I stopped. Whats the point of getting mad??? So I rolled a champ

Seriously... I get tired of immersing myself into the RP, dancing and having fun with Eukwen, then having someone ruin the immersion by casting something stupid. We get a dance in perfect sync and someone comes along and messes up the sync, then we have to start over, the song we were dancing to is nearly over, etc. So yes, it does effect things. I don't object to ignoring people who have so little regard for my character and what I'm doing with him.

Originally Posted by Iorothiel

The complaining people have made the deeds take much more time to do (for example, a full retinue of emotes should take only 10hrs per festival (300*2mins): With the change, yule would take 75hrs (3 emote*5mins*300items), harvestmath emotes would take 175 hours--and this is assuming you cast them nonstop!) --and even at that there is no satisfaction?

I don't think anybody is satisfied with that change. It is not what the spoil-funs asked for and it doesn't help them at all because they still can be emoted against their will. It is not what the pranksters wanted either and it makes things much more frustrating to them. This change to forced-emote cooldowns is the only attempt to solve the forced-emote issue Turbine has made so far and it has proven totally inadequate for both sides of the debate (and probably for the more neutral in-betweeners as well).

Still, the cooldown change was NOT requested by the spoil-funs. It was Turbine who decided to handle things this way. So please don't blame us spoil-funs for your deeds taking much longer to complete. For most (if not all) spoil-funs the aim is NOT to make emoting or completing the forced-emote deeds any more difficult for those who like the emotes, but to get a way in which to avoid being hit with the forced emotes so we can mind our own business and play the game without constant annoyance caused by pranksters.

I still think that an opt-out toggle would be the best solution for everyone involved because it would give spoil-funs the protection they want without depriving pranksters of the emote-fun they enjoy. The only party that would be negatively affected by an opt-out toggle are griefers who insist on upsetting other players as much as much as possible.
But if some other kind of anti-forced-emote feature were introduced (up to and including the complete removal of all forced emotes from the game) I wouldn't object at all. I have been annoyed with forced emotes so often and got so many impolite replies to my requests that they please do not emote me again that I'm quite at the end of my patience by now.

Originally Posted by Yula_the_Mighty

It tells me who I made salute or do the Bug stomping dance. It does not tell victim where it came from. Unless the target has me in view, able to see the application animation, they will never know who it came from.

I had a minor issue with my combat log after update 6. Obviously they added two new filters to the chat box and those were disabled by default for the existing characters. For my older characters I only was shown my own combat actions but not those of other players until I figured out what was going on.

Maybe you should check your combat-log filters; that might resolve this issue. There is now three filter along the lines of "combat <participant>" which are all grouped together near the top of the filter list. If all three of them are enabled, the chat box should show you who applied which benefit/forced emote to your character.

Are there not dedicated role play servers? Do you role play often at the auction house? or the stables in Bree? I don't really understand the role play part of this game.

Originally Posted by Iorothiel

But I will still fight because I like these things. I like when they happen to me, I like when I can get into an emote war in a raid while waiting the 20 minutes for everyone to stop being afk (or the 40 to find a cappy at weird hours). I like that it adds some spice and difference to the game.

Great for you. Not so great for those of us who don't like being treated as target dummies.

I will not be pleased if they are removed completely. It would be a brick in the face of Fun for everyone who's worked hard for them, but would have no affect at all on everyone who hasn't.

If a toggle is added, I will stop requesting their removal, but--in light of Turbine's failure to even give an indication that they're working on an "opt out"--at the present time, complete removal appears to be the only option on the table.

I am seriously hoping turbine does give a toggle. AND if they do:

Reset the cooldown timers on the items to 2 minutes not shared.

AFTER an "opt out" is live, I will not only support removal and shortening of cool downs, I will support there being no cool down at all. I will even support calls for more forced emotes being added. But note...ONLY AFTER the "opt out" is available.

And until a compromise is reached, it'll still be fought. You guys don't want to see our shiny things, we want to play with our shiny things.

An "opt out" IS the compromise....yet some people object to even that much of one.

And then we can find something new to fight about, I'm sure.

Undoubtedly. In fact, there are already other topics in dispute. (For instance....that appallingly STUPID "new item" marker that was added in U6.1.)

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

Originally Posted by whheydt

If a toggle is added, I will stop requesting their removal, but--in light of Turbine's failure to even give an indication that they're working on an "opt out"--at the present time, complete removal appears to be the only option on the table.

With the greatest of respect, complete removal appears to be the only option on the table that suits you and a minority of players. Turbine will most likely take a much wider view and as almost every festival they hand out things like grim crystals and fluffy snow one would presume they don't really see this as the huge issue that some do.

An "opt out" IS the compromise....yet some people object to even that much of one.

Not at all, if it bothers people that much then let them have an opt out, no-one can reasonably object to that surely?

I have seen opposition to an opt-out feature on the forums. But as much as I hate the forced emotes, I would support leaving them for those who do like them, IF there was an opt-out available. I don't want to mess up the fun of those who like them. I just don't want them messing up my fun. I cannot see why people object to that, yet you see it, even in this thread.

Colonel Mustard, In the Library, with the candlestick!

Originally Posted by Rampagingdeath

Not at all, if it bothers people that much then let them have an opt out, no-one can reasonably object to that surely?

There are people who oppose an "opt out". Whether you consider them to be "reasonable" or not is another matter. It is very difficult to get the objectors to say exactly WHY they object. There is reason to suspect the real reason is that they don't want their "fun" of griefing people taken away...but such people won't admit to that (possibly not even to themselves).

--W. H. Heydt

Old Used Programmer

They won't say why they object, well as you seem to like to, lets throw out a totally one sided 'my opinion is like the word of god' idea and weigh it heavily in the direction of my view and my view only (it is the only one that matters after all).

Ever considered that people object to be labeled 'griefers' due to the use of a harmless emote in a virtual world by someone sitting on his throne of green reputation bars and massive post count? There is no pleasing people like you, no matter what people think, say or do you HAVE to steer everything in one direction - yours and yours alone.

You want an opt-out? even when people say - yes, certainly, have your opt-out you still aren't happy and have to drone on and on and point fingers and give us all the benefit of your almost diety like insight into other peoples thoughts and actions.

I've tried to see your side and said quite openly and honestly - yes, have your opt-out, but oh no that's not enough is it? let's get down to the nitty gritty and cut the hyperbole, bottom line is you want a huge virtual online world run to suit you and you alone, well tough - life isn't like that, at some point you have to realise that no matter how highly you view your own opinion it's just not that important in the grand scheme of things.

I'm done with you, puff your chest out and respond in whatever way you see fit or deem necessary to justify your green bars etc. I really can't be bothered anymore, if I wanted a one sided conversation I'd have a chat with my cats.

Originally Posted by Rampagingdeath

They won't say why they object, well as you seem to like to, lets throw out a totally one sided 'my opinion is like the word of god' idea and weigh it heavily in the direction of my view and my view only (it is the only one that matters after all).

Ever considered that people object to be labeled 'griefers' due to the use of a harmless emote in a virtual world by someone sitting on his throne of green reputation bars and massive post count? There is no pleasing people like you, no matter what people think, say or do you HAVE to steer everything in one direction - yours and yours alone.

You want an opt-out? even when people say - yes, certainly, have your opt-out you still aren't happy and have to drone on and on and point fingers and give us all the benefit of your almost diety like insight into other peoples thoughts and actions.

I've tried to see your side and said quite openly and honestly - yes, have your opt-out, but oh no that's not enough is it? let's get down to the nitty gritty and cut the hyperbole, bottom line is you want a huge virtual online world run to suit you and you alone, well tough - life isn't like that, at some point you have to realise that no matter how highly you view your own opinion it's just not that important in the grand scheme of things.

I'm done with you, puff your chest out and respond in whatever way you see fit or deem necessary to justify your green bars etc. I really can't be bothered anymore, if I wanted a one sided conversation I'd have a chat with my cats.

If you want to know why I put people on ignore who use forced emotes, ^. There ya go.

If you already get that pissed for someone doing a virtual emote on a virutal charakter then I really don't wanna know what your like in rl... somebody flips you off in traffic, you take out your bat and beat them to death? o.O

I mean its a GAME, if you feel so extreme about everything then maybe you should take a break for a week.

I can understand your point about the performance/dancing. Interfering there is mean.
But if your just running around in town or standing in the AH I really don't see how an emote can bother you that much. It doesn't close your windows and it doesn't interfere with your ability to place bids or set up an auction, what does it matter if your char lays down, cowers or burns for a couple seconds in the background?

Originally Posted by Smartig

If you already get that pissed for someone doing a virtual emote on a virutal charakter then I really don't wanna know what your like in rl... somebody flips you off in traffic, you take out your bat and beat them to death? o.O

I mean its a GAME, if you feel so extreme about everything then maybe you should take a break for a week.

I can understand your point about the performance/dancing. Interfering there is mean.
But if your just running around in town or standing in the AH I really don't see how an emote can bother you that much. It doesn't close your windows and it doesn't interfere with your ability to place bids or set up an auction, what does it matter if your char lays down, cowers or burns for a couple seconds in the background?

Because it has happened so many times, in so many situations where it was really, really irritating (such as interupting RP, dancing, etc), that it has become fingernails-on-a-chalkboard irritating, and my tolerance level has hit zero. As Tolkien wrote about the shrieking of the Nazgul over Minas Tirith, the noise became more intolerable, not less, with each shriek. Same thing has happened with the forced emotes. i have zero tolerance for them being cast on me, anymore. Note the *on me*. If you want to cast them on other like-minded people, have a blast! Have all the fun you want. Just don't cast them on folks who hate the things. Like me.

Originally Posted by Iorothiel

It's no more or less annoying than someone playing a cowbell randomly nearby when you're trying to srsly play a song (which happens often).

It's TOTALLY different, someone playing a cowbell doesn't uinterrupt my crafting activities or in any other way affect my character's ability to do something.

The fact you don't see that shows you're clearly part of the problem.

Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar

It's TOTALLY different, someone playing a cowbell doesn't uinterrupt my crafting activities or in any other way affect my character's ability to do something.

Nope, just alters the music you wish to play and others wish to hear. I'm sure your favorite band would LOVE you streaking across the stage wailing away with an impromptu cowbell solo.

Srsly tho, its adorable you're only willing to stand up when something directly affects you, ruining your enjoyment while utterly disregarding someone else's version of greifing. The music system has an all-or-nothing toggle, its called mute. Should the in-game emote system have one? Sure.

But then again, every time this issue pops up, all the complaints seem to be from Landy players so.... /hug Vilya

Originally Posted by Kerin_Eldar

It's TOTALLY different, someone playing a cowbell doesn't uinterrupt my crafting activities or in any other way affect my character's ability to do something.

The fact you don't see that shows you're clearly part of the problem.

No, because it doesn't affect what you're doing at all if you're in the middle of an action. Dunno how many times I've had fire/bugs/whatever dropped on me when I've gone on a crafting spree. Don't really care. I've counted (as said before) only three emotes that actually make your character physically stop for 2 seconds (the rest are purely graphical)--I generally don't use them on people I don't know.

I do have an issue with the griefer label. It seems that some of you want to lump the people who might use a one-off emote every once in awhile with the people who would gather a horde and follow someone for half an hour spamming them.

It's as if you are assuming that because it exists everyone will misuse it.

I have nothing against a toggle, as I said before, if only to let this issue die with my shiny things intact.

Originally Posted by sarcasm_society

Nope, just alters the music you wish to play and others wish to hear. I'm sure your favorite band would LOVE you streaking across the stage wailing away with an impromptu cowbell solo.

Srsly tho, its adorable you're only willing to stand up when something directly affects you, ruining your enjoyment while utterly disregarding someone else's version of greifing. The music system has an all-or-nothing toggle, its called mute. Should the in-game emote system have one? Sure.

But then again, every time this issue pops up, all the complaints seem to be from Landy players so.... /hug Vilya

Actually, we do deal with people playing cowbells when musicians are playing, being disruptive. Just because forced emotes are the topic at the moment does not mean we ignore other issues as well. Ignore list goes a long way toward letting you enjoy the music being played, the cowbeller on ignore is silent.