Thread: First Age Symbol level 65 for weapon or emblem?

Hi, I have a level 65 elder king symbol, is it better to make a weapon or emblem?

If I get to level 75, is it more feasible to replace the level 65 LI weapon or emblem first? Is it better to make an emblem from a first age level 65 symbol?

Is the level 65 first age emblem or level 75 second age emblem better?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by weiminc38

Hi, I have a level 65 elder king symbol, is it better to make a weapon or emblem?

If I get to level 75, is it more feasible to replace the level 65 LI weapon or emblem first? Is it better to make an emblem from a first age level 65 symbol?

Both would best be replaced with 3rd ages even at 75.
I'd grab an emblem because it could probably last you to 75. But you'd want to replace the weapon even earlier than that with a 3rd age at lvl 71 or something.

Originally Posted by weiminc38

Is the level 65 first age emblem or level 75 second age emblem better?

Thanks!

75 SA by far. it has the edge in relics and in base Tactical Healing Rating.

Its the same as for the other classes who use no-DPS secondary LIs. Like Champs, Rune-keepers ...

The First Agers have more legacy points you can spend spend, higher base damage, higher base stats and a higher chance to get 4 major legacies. So you should definitely make the emblem. Because if you use a secondary class item which doesn't do damage, than it really doesn't make a difference if it is lvl 65 or 75. Especially not if you have to choose between a lvl 65 FA and a lvl 75 SA.

If you would make a weapon with it you will replace it really fast because you will get Third Age Weapons soon which have higher DPS values even without starting to level the DPS value.

I for example still have a lvl 65 First Age rune-bag on my Rune-Keeper which I switch to when i need to use damage from time to time. I definitely wouldn't use a lvl 65 Fist Age weapon anymore.

There are classes like the Hunter or Warden who use two damage dealing legendary items (Bow / one-handed melee & Javelin / one-handed melee). Those classes don't have a real option to keep using a LI that is ten levels lower than they are … unless they completely abandon the direct use of one of them (like Hunter who don't use melee attacks and Warden who don't use javelins to do damage)

Originally Posted by JanTATW

So you should definitely make the emblem. Because if you use a secondary class item which doesn't do damage, than it really doesn't make a difference if it is lvl 65 or 75. Especially not if you have to choose between a lvl 65 FA and a lvl 75 SA.

But a captain is not like a champ or burg, a captain emblem is more like a rune-keeper satchel or minstrel songbook, the tactical heal rating is very important.

Thanks guys!

Would you guys recommend any good legacies to have on a cappy emblem and weapon?

Do cappies have two sets of Li - one for buffing and another for healing? Also, do cappies pu focus solely on dps legacies on their weapon and emblem?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by weiminc38

Thanks guys!

Would you guys recommend any good legacies to have on a cappy emblem and weapon?

Do cappies have two sets of Li - one for buffing and another for healing? Also, do cappies pu focus solely on dps legacies on their weapon and emblem?

Thanks!

I could say "search around for other threads that address this" but that's easier said than done.

1) Yes - most Captains have two sets of at least two LIs. One weapon is for fighting the other is for buffing. One emblem is for most of the time the other is a "swap" emblem with legacies that have long cooldowns and/or buffing (Focus). Some go a step further and have a "swap" weapon with legacies that have long cooldowns. I have tried that and found it distracting in the middle of an intense raid boss fight. But some do it no problem.

2) Which legacies? Hmm. That opens up a debate. But there is some consensus.

2a) Main emblem should have Rallying Cry cooldown, Vocal heal bonus, Rallying Cry heal bonus, Strength of Will bonus (although some put that on a swap emblem).

2b) Main weapon should have Telling Mark bonus at very least, Pressing Attack targets. After that you get much more variety depending on whether a Captain uses a swap weapon or not. I don't - and so like to have To Arms, even Kick on my main weapon. Like I said - there is some debate and variety.

3) The point about Tactical Rating is well taken. I don't disagree but *before Isengard* actually got away with a level 59 First Age emblem for hard mode raiding in Barad Guldur for a long time until finally getting a good 65 Second Age. Ideal? No but the legacies awesome and maxed out so it was hard to let go.

Originally Posted by weiminc38

Also, do cappies pu focus solely on dps legacies on their weapon and emblem?

While leveling up, I think these are the most important emblem legacies:

RC cooldown
Shadows Lament cooldown
Vocal Skills healing

While leveling up, I recommend this for your weapon(s)
PA targets
To Arms
anything else increasing dps

Originally Posted by DarthKeryx

I could say "search around for other threads that address this" but that's easier said than done.

1) Yes - most Captains have two sets of at least two LIs. One weapon is for fighting the other is for buffing. One emblem is for most of the time the other is a "swap" emblem with legacies that have long cooldowns and/or buffing (Focus). Some go a step further and have a "swap" weapon with legacies that have long cooldowns. I have tried that and found it distracting in the middle of an intense raid boss fight. But some do it no problem.

2) Which legacies? Hmm. That opens up a debate. But there is some consensus.

2a) Main emblem should have Rallying Cry cooldown, Vocal heal bonus, Rallying Cry heal bonus, Strength of Will bonus (although some put that on a swap emblem).

2b) Main weapon should have Telling Mark bonus at very least, Pressing Attack targets. After that you get much more variety depending on whether a Captain uses a swap weapon or not. I don't - and so like to have To Arms, even Kick on my main weapon. Like I said - there is some debate and variety.

3) The point about Tactical Rating is well taken. I don't disagree but *before Isengard* actually got away with a level 59 First Age emblem for hard mode raiding in Barad Guldur for a long time until finally getting a good 65 Second Age. Ideal? No but the legacies awesome and maxed out so it was hard to let go.

Thanks, I have 4 majors on my weapon. Telling mark, pressing attack critical rating, devastating blow critical rating and kick cooldown. May I ask which of the major legacies can I switch out for pressing attack max targets?

Why is pressing attack max targets important?

Sorry for questions, just started cappy playing not too long ago.

Originally Posted by weiminc38

Why is pressing attack max targets important?

Because you will get more chances to crit. Crit on PA= RC or Buffs.
RC at 75 heals 1.5-2k (per person) on crits + gives good amount of power if traited. Attack durtion buffs are great for group dps.

Originally Posted by weiminc38

Thanks, I have 4 majors on my weapon. Telling mark, pressing attack critical rating, devastating blow critical rating and kick cooldown. May I ask which of the major legacies can I switch out for pressing attack max targets?

You may switch the dev blow crit, because you will be using your PA for crits, the only situation when DB is better then PA is when you have CC targets near the cappy, and don't want to break the mez.

Originally Posted by JanTATW

Because if you use a secondary class item which doesn't do damage, than it really doesn't make a difference if it is lvl 65 or 75. Especially not if you have to choose between a lvl 65 FA and a lvl 75 SA.

No it does make a difference, cappy emblems have +heal raiting instead of dps. I will check the numbers, but a 3-age emblem is better for healing than the 1-age emblem. I didn't want to decon mine but it upps your healing, if you have maxed it.

My advice is to sell the level 65 1st age symbol or give it to a champion or a burglar in your kinship.
Champions and Burglars can use the 65 First Age class items with little change compared to their level 75 equivalents.

You'll never max out a captain's level 65 first age item before you get a raw 3rd ager that is superior to your 1st age. Level 70 captain 3rd ages will out heal and out dps that 1st ager with only a few points spent on them. You should get to 75 pretty quickly (faster than you'll get enough empowerment scrolls to make that 1st ager special).

Originally Posted by StarofLs

No it does make a difference, cappy emblems have +heal raiting instead of dps. I will check the numbers, but a 3-age emblem is better for healing than the 1-age emblem. I didn't want to decon mine but it upps your healing, if you have maxed it.

Hi, what do you mean by a 3-age emblem is better for healing than the 1-age emblem? Are they the same level, i.e. level 65?

Originally Posted by weiminc38

Hi, what do you mean by a 3-age emblem is better for healing than the 1-age emblem? Are they the same level, i.e. level 65?

Oh, sorry, I wasn't clear enough : A lvl 75 third age emblem is better for healing then a lvl 65 first age emblem, with the same legs.

Originally Posted by dietlbomb

My advice is to sell the level 65 1st age symbol or give it to a champion or a burglar in your kinship.
Champions and Burglars can use the 65 First Age class items with little change compared to their level 75 equivalents.

You'll never max out a captain's level 65 first age item before you get a raw 3rd ager that is superior to your 1st age. Level 70 captain 3rd ages will out heal and out dps that 1st ager with only a few points spent on them. You should get to 75 pretty quickly (faster than you'll get enough empowerment scrolls to make that 1st ager special).

Thanks ! But I already made the first age into a level 65 emblem.

Originally Posted by StarofLs

Because you will get more chances to crit. Crit on PA= RC or Buffs.
RC at 75 heals 1.5-2k (per person) on crits + gives good amount of power if traited. Attack durtion buffs are great for group dps.



You may switch the dev blow crit, because you will be using your PA for crits, the only situation when DB is better then PA is when you have CC targets near the cappy, and don't want to break the mez.

Thanks! I will swap out devastating blow with PA targets.

Originally Posted by StarofLs

Oh, sorry, I wasn't clear enough : A lvl 75 third age emblem is better for healing then a lvl 65 first age emblem, with the same legs.

Thanks for the clarification!

Originally Posted by Omen_Kaizer

While leveling up, I think these are the most important emblem legacies:

RC cooldown
Shadows Lament cooldown
Vocal Skills healing

While leveling up, I recommend this for your weapon(s)
PA targets
To Arms
anything else increasing dps

Thanks!

Why do we need To Arms?

Also what is difference between vocal and melee skills healing?Is vocal healing prioritised over melee healing?

I have question about relics, gem and settings for cappy. Do cappies use a mixture of physical mastery, tactical mastery, physical mitigation relics compared to pure morale relics? Thanks!

Originally Posted by weiminc38

Thanks!

Why do we need To Arms?

Also what is difference between vocal and melee skills healing?Is vocal healing prioritised over melee healing?

To Arms is your bread & butter shield brother buff. The legacy increases its duration by 15 seconds, so without the trait you can have -15% damage on the tank for 25 seconds out of every minute. At level 74 you get the Blade-brother skill, which changes To Arms to a +25% damage buff on the Blade-brother and on yourself if you have Master of War traited. This will allow you and your group to do a lot more dps.

You might not need To Arms if you aren't running with a group and you don't have Blade-brother yet. It might be useful for soloing tough mobs and you have yourself shield-brothered using the Leader of Men trait.

Vocal healing is Words of Courage and Rallying Cry. Melee heals are Inspire and Valiant Strike. Although the melee heals are important, it is generally observed that the vocal heals are more potent.

Originally Posted by weiminc38

Thanks!

Why do we need To Arms?

Also what is difference between vocal and melee skills healing?Is vocal healing prioritised over melee healing?

To Arms is a dps buff to all of your fellowship. The longer it gets, the better for your group dps You can have it on swap, but some people prefer to have it on the main weapon

You have different healing skills

1) Vocal : RC, MC (if traited) and WoC.
2) Melee: Inspire & Valiant Strike (have a HoT if in hoh)

RC is your biggest heal - You are getting it on defeat or if you crit on DB or PA. If you are pressed you can use Time of need to get a defeat event
MC is a self heal and clears group fears
WoC is your only Vocal, heals on demand skill

Inspire is a small heal or power return (HoT) (depends on the brother skill you are currently using). If you have Fellowship-brother legendary it affects all the group. You better keep the HoT all the time, but it's pretty minor ( it does help a lot in it's power version though) .

VS is a moderate fellowship heal with Hot

So I would say, yes - Vocal healing is better then Melee healing. Well, it best to have both, but if you have to choose...

Originally Posted by weiminc38

I have question about relics, gem and settings for cappy. Do cappies use a mixture of physical mastery, tactical mastery, physical mitigation relics compared to pure morale relics? Thanks!

This really depends on what you are doing. At end game, some captains have specific legendary items for each role they want to emphasize, so your dps weapon and emblem will have physical mastery, whereas your healing items will have tactical mastery, and your tanking items will have mitigation and morale.

As for leveling, I'd go with whatever is missing in your build so far. More morale can't hurt, especially since the quest reward items in Dunland don't have much of it on them. I also like ICPR on my runes. There's really no wrong answer unless you are trying to optimize your build for raiding or some such. But, for example, I'd pick the Morale+Physical Mastery settings, the ICPR+evade runes, and some Vitality+Crit gems.

These tier 2 relics should do nicely until you get a nice level 75er:

Copper Setting of the Spirit
Amethyst Gem of the Enduring Hand
Aged Rune of Longevity

Originally Posted by dietlbomb

This really depends on what you are doing. At end game, some captains have specific legendary items for each role they want to emphasize, so your dps weapon and emblem will have physical mastery, whereas your healing items will have tactical mastery, and your tanking items will have mitigation and morale.

As for leveling, I'd go with whatever is missing in your build so far. More morale can't hurt, especially since the quest reward items in Dunland don't have much of it on them. I also like ICPR on my runes. There's really no wrong answer unless you are trying to optimize your build for raiding or some such. But, for example, I'd pick the Morale+Physical Mastery settings, the ICPR+evade runes, and some Vitality+Crit gems.

These tier 2 relics should do nicely until you get a nice level 75er:

Copper Setting of the Spirit
Amethyst Gem of the Enduring Hand
Aged Rune of Longevity

Yes, don't waste anything higher then T3 on non-second age weapon. You will get a symbol in the end of the Epic storyline, so save the relics for your 75 Second-ager.

Originally Posted by dietlbomb

To Arms is your bread & butter shield brother buff. The legacy increases its duration by 15 seconds, so without the trait you can have -15% damage on the tank for 25 seconds out of every minute. At level 74 you get the Blade-brother skill, which changes To Arms to a +25% damage buff on the Blade-brother and on yourself if you have Master of War traited. This will allow you and your group to do a lot more dps.

You might not need To Arms if you aren't running with a group and you don't have Blade-brother yet. It might be useful for soloing tough mobs and you have yourself shield-brothered using the Leader of Men trait.

Vocal healing is Words of Courage and Rallying Cry. Melee heals are Inspire and Valiant Strike. Although the melee heals are important, it is generally observed that the vocal heals are more potent.

Thanks! IS it advisable to swap out Kick countdown and put in To Arms?

Originally Posted by weiminc38

Thanks! IS it advisable to swap out Kick countdown and put in To Arms?

For group weapons - Probably. You will have enough people to interrupt casts, for solo - leave it on. I have kick on my main and to arms on my swap, but it's your choice really.

Originally Posted by weiminc38

Thanks!

Why do we need To Arms?

Also what is difference between vocal and melee skills healing?Is vocal healing prioritised over melee healing?

good question on to arms. You really don't. I was thinking you could blade brother your herald and get the attack benefit from there, but thats a lvl 74 skill.

Vocal healing is more prevalent, your real workhorse heals are all vocal

Hi guys, for a buff stick, is the level relevant, i.e. can I use a level 60 LI as a buff stick for motivating speech morale and critical rating increase?

Originally Posted by weiminc38

Hi guys, for a buff stick, is the level relevant, i.e. can I use a level 60 LI as a buff stick for motivating speech morale and critical rating increase?

Yes it is. The "best" buffstick possible is a level 75 first age right now. That is because the maximum benefits of parry, crit, and focus depend on both the level AND the age of the item. Don't know the exact comparison between level 75 third age and level 65 first age though. Motivating speech is the same regardless... Mind you, the differences are somewhat marginal. I've gone for level 75 second age buffstick and emblem myself....