Thread: Easiest Creep Classes to 1v1

Originally Posted by 87_Suited

Before I make my list, I acknowledge the fact that I am doing so from the perspective of a RK (Overpowered in 1v1s). The list assumes my 1v1 counterpart has max audacity and Rank 10+ as well.

1) Warg (Shadow) - easiest
2) Reaver - I always let them start in charge
3) WL (Brawler Stance)
4) Black Arrow (Skirmisher)
5) Spider
6) Black Arrow (Starting in Keen Eye with Fire Trap down)
7) Warg (Flayer)
8) WL (Commander stance) - Takes a long frickin time to work one of these down. Note: I have no chance in losing this fight
9) Defiler with flies traited

You seem to be mixing spars with which class is the easiest to fight, the topic is a bit misleading. A lot of server have loads of self-imposed nerfs in spars, you can't use this and that skill etc and you lose the element of surprise. Spars are not always representative of real fights.

Excellent point stofferz, in which case the hardest spars for freeps in general is wargs be abuse there's 100 of them all the time everywhere. Even in my boots.

Anyways I'm pretty certain the only rough fight for a champ is flayer warg and well played spider.

I guess I never made my post.

As a Minstrel...

Nothing.

Every Creep class has no choice but to die against me 1v1.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

Between Shocking Touch, Shocking Words, and Perfect Imagery there aren't enough Stun Pots in the world to get the RK down before it gets you down, assuming they are remotely competent.

one word: store

Originally Posted by johnnyskywalker

I agree with you %100, im more scared of a good RK or LM then a good champ anyday of the week. Champ has 45s sprint, in that time you evade + firetrap, wait for his sprint to end, perm slow and kite the rest of the fight. Even if in glory worst comes to worse you can still get away from him if you want.

I thought you said good champ? A good champ won't lose to a BA.

45 second sprint lasts longer than a 30 second evade btw. Mighty blast ftw.

Hmm... It's not easy to choose a single class as there are always exceptions - at least that is what I have found on Elendilmir. I'm comfortable 1v1ing any class, to be completely honest, but in terms of an /overall/ answer... it would have to be BAs. For me, at least. Why? Because by the time I have debuffed them, my raven is on them casting distraction, and I have stacked a few nice bleeds, I know that unless they have critted me bigtime I'm basically going to win. Most of the time I don't even need to get within melee range to use staff skills because their DPS has been reduced so much that they can't even win a ranged fight. But this isn't always the case - I have no experience on other servers but some of the high rank veteran BAs on Elendilmir are spectacular, and despite being debuffed to hell, they still pack a mighty punch. Weavers are a close second, as well. I have seen a few remarkable weavers on E but not /that/ many. I just personally find their CC annoying enough to justify putting BAs first in terms of overall ease.

Not only that, but the fight itself is relatively simple - I don't have to worry about my target sprinting around like a lunatic or stealthing away mid fight only to reappear 20 seconds later. Engaging a BA is a much more 'civilised' fight for an LM than getting dirty with a reaver or a warg, I think. But that said - there are so many factors that come into it, the skill level of the individual creep, audacity, skills, traits, etc etc... there are /always/ exceptions. If you think weavers are all roadkill, come to E and look for Frostbloodnakh. If you think shadow wargs are a walk in the park, look for Reflexiz. You get the idea. It only goes to show that despite all of the moaning about creeps being 'gimped' or what have you, there are standout players who have maximised their potential regardless.

Originally Posted by KillGore81

I thought you said good champ? A good champ won't lose to a BA.

45 second sprint lasts longer than a 30 second evade btw. Mighty blast ftw.

Not to mention 40s hamstring if you have the gear for it, which is hilarious might I add.

Coming from the perspective of a warden, usually traited yellow line in the moors these days, with respectable but not amazing gear and competent but not outstanding at the class:

Easiest to hardest, observing "polite 1v1" rules (no major cooldowns, no brands, no curative pots - I don't mind creep pot buffs, let the other guy get his trap/charge/whatever up at the start). Also I don't self heal:

1. Warleader. This is such a sad mismatch that I generally don't even fight them.

2. Reaver. Poor reavers could really use some buffing. At least melee vs melee tends to be a fun fight and a good one will be close and sometimes result in a mutual kill which I always find hilarious.

3. Warg (shadow). A high ranked, well played shadow warg may well be a really tough opponent, but most of the good wargs on my server use flayer in 1v1s against me, or start in shadow and switch to flayer after breaking stealth. I haven't had much trouble with the wargs I've fought in shadow - they do more damage but they can't take nearly as much of a beating as a flayer warg and they generally run out of health before I do.

4. BA. Honestly most of them don't give me much difficulty either, although I don't actually fight many of them one on one so it could be a sample size issue. But if their slow sticks and mine doesn't and they manage to successfully dance around the line between "too close for assailment gambits" and "too far for melee range" I can be in trouble.

5. Warg (flayer). By far the most common 1v1 opponent I usually face, not surprising given the popularity of wargs these days, so it's nice that it tends to be a fun and challenging match for a dps traited, non-self-healing warden.

6. Defilers. Two words: traited flies. I @#%$@^ hate them. Warden's power pool is so small that even with our power restore gambit our blue bar empties in a handful of seconds. I flat out refuse to fight defilers with flies.

I left spiders off the list because there are very few ranked ones on my server who solo or 1v1 and I just don't have a sufficient sample size to judge. I can imagine a good one would be pretty tough.

As for "out in the field, anything goes" matches:
If I'm willing to use (edit) consumables and self heals (/edit) I pretty much fear nothing in a single opponent except #@$#@ defilers and their @#%@#^ traited flies. Against more than one at a time popping Defiant Challenge still makes things pretty easy. DC is basically 30 seconds of godmode on a 2.5 minute timer, plenty long enough to seriously put a dent in any creep's hide while taking very little damage myself.

Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk

RKs have a consumable that lets them use Epic for the Ages regardless of attunement. They can also use Writ of Health/Prelude to Hope largely regardless of Attunement but these are fairly insignificant.

I'd sooner heal vs a Flayer Warg than a Shadow one though. All you have to do to beat a Shadow Warg is keep hitting and CC-ing them. Between Shocking Touch, Shocking Words, and Perfect Imagery there aren't enough Stun Pots in the world to get the RK down before it gets you down, assuming they are remotely competent. In theory dual Silences would clinch the fight for you but it never really works out that way. If you're using Dire Howl or Throat Rip you aren't doing Damage and you're still taking Damage (albeit less). 1 Silence is instantly potted, the 2nd is a significant loss in DPS. I guess maybe if the RK pots Flea Bitten...

I apologize for responding when there are 4 others pages I must read, but when I saw these 2 posts, having both a reputable RK and Warg skill-wise on BW I thought I had to respond. One thing I wanted to point out is that the EftA consumable is really nooby and I have only found one RK to use it, but it also does come with another consumable which allows your next skill to not be interrupted, therefore the only way of interrupting it is a stun which is what I did to the RK that tried to use it on me. A secret that I try not to reveal as a warg that loves to silence RKs, but hopefully not many of my opponents will see this... THE SECOND SILENCE CAN BE REMOVED WITH A PHIAL OF CONHUITH!! . If you find a runekeeper that uses that trick then and you tried to silence them twice you will most likely lose the first time. On the second attempt, you will just have to go all out dps since using rabid bite + flea bitten would take way too long and mean an extreme loss of dps for the warg.

Originally Posted by 87_Suited

I have capped mitigations and full audacity. Shadow warg typically can't get me below 6500 health folowwing initial pounce. No... I don't trait SH nor would I use the skill during 1v1. I don't use parchment nor EPA heal. At most ill have WoH and OOH HOTs. As for BA and reaver, they are typically easy. The reavers that have a good rotation for bleeds and debuff make it tough. But I come across only a few of those.

I agree with you that if you have a mit build and a lot of morale shadow wargs are very easy to beat. I understand that you weren't really talking about fighting a flayer warg, but a good one can EASILY beat a 40% mit morale build RK. Maybe if you use writ of health every 3 seconds as well as prelude you might be able to keep yourself alive enough to take down the warg, but it is VERY difficult to take them down if they are debuffing you at all times and are traited crit defense, especially as an RK. I've beaten what is considered to be the best RK on my server with his mit build, while he has scrolls, token, and the 5% damage buff multiple times. I guess you and I can't 1v1 to test it out and see the difference on you but I'm just givin ya my 2 cents. Anyways, I hope nobody said practically the same thing I said to either of you two in the last 3 pages...but yeah, that's about all I got on the topic.

Originally Posted by Hethyba

If I'm willing to use Defiant Challenge I pretty much fear nothing in a single opponent

You use DC 1v1?

Originally Posted by Priestetute

You use DC 1v1?

Actually I don't remember the last time I did since I got my audacity and gear up, against anything but a 2v1 or higher or someone jumping me when I'm already at low health. Even in a no-politeness-rules fight, I figure if I have to hit the godmode button in order to win I don't deserve to lol. I suppose I might consider using it if a BA popped moving target and actually kept attacking instead of running away, but even then probably not. Consumables and taking away my "no self healing" self imposed limit is about as much of an edge as I'll give myself. So I suppose I should actually edit that.

No actually I lie. I use it with some frequency against single creeps if they think that running into their NPCs will save them. Hahahahahahaha silly creeps.

And okay, another exception. I will pop everything I've got against #@%@# defilers and their %@#% flies. Just because I hate them that much.

Originally Posted by KillGore81

I thought you said good champ? A good champ won't lose to a BA.

45 second sprint lasts longer than a 30 second evade btw. Mighty blast ftw.

Legacied sprint and ardour true heroics will give you somewhere between 50 and 60 seconds in melee range before you're perma-kitable. If you can't kill them in that time then pretty much all you can do is try and juke with line of sight or blow CDs until sprint is back up. This is assuming the good champ is faced by a BA who is also good; at least at kiting. Mighty blast does hardly anything since audacity, I don't think I've traited it since.

Originally Posted by MaroonDragoon

Mighty blast does hardly anything since audacity, I don't think I've traited it since.

It allows you to get a hamstring in while MT is up. Most BA's are going to try and start with that to try an avoid from being snared from the get go.

I trait it if it's BA/weaver heavy out. I supposes that's not too often these days *cough* wargs *cough*.

Heres my list, spear traited.

1. Shadow wargs. There arent any great wargs on my server, so idk how a good one would do.
2. Flayer wargs. See #1
3. Reavers. We have some amazing reavers on our server, always very close.
4. WLs. Audacity + heals makes it take a long time to take them down, not many solo WLs though.
5. BA. Kiting, MT.
6. Defilers. Flies is brutal. (NOTE: do not use the 5 spear set)
7. BA with a pre pot. Yeah, real fun.
8. Spiders... A melee class's nightmare. 75% bpe+ isnt fun, the only class i use CDs against.

Originally Posted by Hethyba

Coming from the perspective of a warden, usually traited yellow line in the moors these days, with respectable but not amazing gear and competent but not outstanding at the class:

People trait yellow still?

Originally Posted by gageithman

Heres my list, spear traited.

1. Shadow wargs. There arent any great wargs on my server, so idk how a good one would do.
2. Flayer wargs. See #1
3. Reavers. We have some amazing reavers on our server, always very close.
4. WLs. Audacity + heals makes it take a long time to take them down, not many solo WLs though.
5. BA. Kiting, MT.
6. Defilers. Flies is brutal. (NOTE: do not use the 5 spear set)
7. BA with a pre pot. Yeah, real fun.
8. Spiders... A melee class's nightmare. 75% bpe+ isnt fun, the only class i use CDs against.




People trait yellow still?

Matdir, I'm hurt, and Snoopey would be too.

Originally Posted by KillGore81

It allows you to get a hamstring in while MT is up. Most BA's are going to try and start with that to try an avoid from being snared from the get go.

I trait it if it's BA/weaver heavy out. I supposes that's not too often these days *cough* wargs *cough*.

I

If the first thing they do is MT then I laugh and win the fight.

Hindering shot > Hamstring.

Originally Posted by gageithman

People trait yellow still?

Sure, why not? The increased fear chance on Deso is great, and the ranged damage boosts are nice given how much of my time is spent in Assailment chucking javelins at creeps.

Originally Posted by Buttkickington

Matdir, I'm hurt, and Snoopey would be too.

I sowwy, dont get me wrong, youre good, but im comparing to the old wargs such as draug and swiftd who both left. I still love you!

Originally Posted by Priestetute

You use DC 1v1?

Na, she doesnt. She used once against me before cuz when she had less gear and aud. She asked me if it was ok for her to use; I said ok. Little did I know how powerful a boost DC got because there are very few good, non-healing wardens on our server anymore: her and another is it. I brought the wrath of DC upon myself . Anyway, I seen her win plenty without using that skill. Just thought I clear that up by saying she doesnt heh. Don't want for Gladden wards to have a bad rep of using DC in 1v1s .

Originally Posted by Feomalo

Spiders harder than wargs, reavers and BAs and you are a rk? Something is wrong here...

Dude did u see his sig it says bigflip the rk! hi flippy

Originally Posted by firehandsjr

for me.

1. Warleaders,

2. spiders

3. defilers

4.blackarrow

5. reaver

6. wargs.

note all the above assumes the classes were somewhat well played during the fight

I think spiders should be the easiest then reavers , I find well played shadow warg is actually just as fun as a flayer. Reavers are probably the 2nd weakest except twong. Only ba that is fun to play least on our server griz. defilers unless they know they're gonna win are just a pain and not worth the time to fight specially w/ flies. warleaders I never find solo so wouldnt know. least in my opinion.

As a hunter everything is hard. It relies on my luck with hits/crits, but since creeps have CDs to burn and don't need to rely on luck, it's 50/50. (BA is nada, they pop MT as soon as they see me)

Easy: Most creeps.
Challenging: Spiders and BAs who know how to move and understand warden ranges.
Most Difficult: Defilers with traited flies. Haven't figured out how to deal with this without using store power pots.

Originally Posted by firehandsjr

for me.

1. Warleaders,

2. spiders

3. defilers

4.blackarrow

5. reaver

6. wargs.

note all the above assumes the classes were somewhat well played during the fight

I have beaten a lot of minis on my spider and came close to beating a top tier one. He power potted or I would have had him. ShAdow wargs don't give my under geared mini any trouble even when they brand the 60 sec. Flayer is a whole mother beast. With better gear I could beat p2w flies defiler. Stay in their face Los their flies by running through them. Spell pushback is nAsty With calls. Fear there flies anthem to restore power. Kite away the direction the flies run. Worst case scenario you tie

Originally Posted by Torqky

I have beaten a lot of minis on my spider and came close to beating a top tier one. He power potted or I would have had him. ShAdow wargs don't give my under geared mini any trouble even when they brand the 60 sec. Flayer is a whole mother beast. With better gear I could beat p2w flies defiler. Stay in their face Los their flies by running through them. Spell pushback is nAsty With calls. Fear there flies anthem to restore power. Kite away the direction the flies run. Worst case scenario you tie

I don't see how a decent Mins could struggle at all vs a Weaver.

Anthem of composure and minstrels should never lose...

Originally Posted by Torqky

I have beaten a lot of minis on my spider and came close to beating a top tier one. He power potted or I would have had him. ShAdow wargs don't give my under geared mini any trouble even when they brand the 60 sec. Flayer is a whole mother beast. With better gear I could beat p2w flies defiler. Stay in their face Los their flies by running through them. Spell pushback is nAsty With calls. Fear there flies anthem to restore power. Kite away the direction the flies run. Worst case scenario you tie

The minstrels on your server suck.

The average mini on my server hasn't learned to god mode and will run from me solo. I have a mini and know the class better than most of you nay Sayers though. I have sparred minis
Hundreds of times, losing most of them. The fight requires a lot of timed execution. A lot can go wrong for the spider and the mini has the advantage, don't get me wrong.

Originally Posted by cmal

Easy: Most creeps.
Challenging: Spiders and BAs who know how to move and understand warden ranges.
Most Difficult: Defilers with traited flies. Haven't figured out how to deal with this without using store power pots.

5 set spearlord, spam the -inc heals debuff, the filer will panic trying to heal themselves and wont damage you.
only problem u might face is getting kited through blight, that's IF they get a chance to get blight off when every single hit knocks back inductions (blight induction is 2.5s).
It's a very challenging fight for both sides.

Originally Posted by Stevo6

The minstrels on your server suck.

Most of us minis on dwarrow are not afraid to drop a little in morale and don't brand faster then a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs even with the 50% warg population

This list is really centering around creeps who are high level and can play their class (and don't use brands). All suggestions too are useful for how to counteract certain classes. For my champ running in fervour:

1) Defilers with flies (I haven't fought enough to figure out better tactics unfortunately since most raid but it's a very tough fight).

2) Good BAs who know how to kite. With my initial sprint and stun I can get the BA almost all the way down but if I don't kill them (which I can kill a lot right away, but not the high level ones) I gotta resort to kiting for 3 minutes till sprint is back up. If the fight is around trees and such this is doable. If I'm in the water, not so much.

3) I used to not think WLs were that hard, but just fought a really good one and did quite a bit of initial damage, was able to clobber alot of the heals, but I missed some and they got a &&&& load of their morale back. I lost and they ended up with 5k morale. I gotta save my stuns more for their heals and really stick closer, but still a good WL fight is gonna be tough and take a while and if you miss some of their heals it could be a problem.

4) Spiders. Not many of them around on Silverlode and I beat most of them but finally got a chance to fight a really good one and lost. I couldn't do enough damage with the initial sprint and then was kited and webbed to death. I think better use of the surroundings is needed on my part.

5) Wargs. Wargs running without store buffs or anything should always be beatable by a champ. There is one high level warg with the buffs and store pots who can beat me.

6) Reavers. Some fun fights for champs, but if you bubble should always be doable.

Originally Posted by Nerglor

Most of us minis on dwarrow are not afraid to drop a little in morale and don't brand faster then a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs even with the 50% warg population

I'm assuming you are talking about bunnytail/mihiraa and if you are... that's pretty funny

From a Guard's point of view:

1)Reavers: Reavers are in general the easiest to beat, even though the good ones put up great, close fights.

2)Warleaders: a)Brawlers: Generally I will win if things go smoothly. If they get many crits with shouts/crit heals I might run out of power. Good WLs still put up great fights.
b)Commander: It really depends. If it's an arranged 1v1 i will trait catch a breath and switch to shield when i'm out of power while having my glass cannon build on. If I find them in the open it might be a never ending fight.

3)Shadow Warg: Most of the time I will win unless my basic skills get bped or if I get no crits.

4)BA: It really depends. If I get the jump on them (If I get in melee range before they start attacking) then It's a guaranteed win. If they get the jump on me then it gets messy, they have the advantage. I will pop sprint and they will pop MT as soon as I approach them. If I get a stagger on them and my 2 basic skills that give me parry responses land succesfully so i can keep To the King buff on they lose. If my staggers get bped/miss (I will probably use stagger thrice until my charge wears off) or if I don't get parry responses (brutal/Force-opening get evaded) then they win.

5) Flayer Warg: Now good flayers can put up good fights unless they play extremely cheap (Brands/prepots). In general I will win but the good ones can put up great fights.

6)Weaver: There's a couple good spideys on my server and even though we just had 3 1v1s they were some of the best fights I ever had. I won't reveal my secret strat :P

7)Defilers: Now it really depends. Basically if they use flies I can't do nothing. Well there is one thing I can do, which is store power pots but i don't really feel like wasting my TP on that. If i use power pots against them their dead. There are no good defilers left on my server though so it doesn't even matter.

Generally any class can give me good 1v1s played right from good players. The thing though with the guard is that even though it's a very solid 1v1 class luck is a big factor. My DPS is generally fake so I have to crit and my shiz need to land. Speaking of crits, don't imagine anything huge. With a first ager and 20-24k mastery my crits are around 1k (God Save Turbine for no crit multipliers). A few BPE/miss or some lack of crits and things can get messy.

Note: My list is based on 1v1s vs top skilled creeps. No use of Pledge/Deep Breath/Warrior's Heart/Ignore the Pain/Turn the Tables.

im saddened how reavers are pretty much the easiest kill for everyone who posted ;( guess thats what we get for being the f2p class. i miss pre-audacity. i could put up a decent fight against most class's back then, now i have to avoid mini's/competant rk's.

Originally Posted by avengingbananaslug

5) Wargs. Wargs running without store buffs or anything should always be beatable by a champ. There is one high level warg with the buffs and store pots who can beat me.

Ummmmmm

What about me and chief? Chief uses absolutely nothing, not even rend flesh or frenzy. I sometimes use rend vs you but not alot.

Neither of us use any audacity. Not to mention no delving pots or stun pots or morale pots, etc

I cant think of the last time you beat my warg...

Have fun on E btw

~Kaz

For me, the easiest creeps to 1v1 are in this order, from easy to hard.

Spider - What can I say? Spiders are pretty squishy at this point and arent that much trouble to 1v1

Warg - Maybe not always the easiest, but I have had the most experience against wargs so I feel that I know how to beat them better simply from having alot of practice. Doesnt really matter Shadow or Flayer, a good flayer warg is a challenge, and a shadow warg who feels the need to have all kinds of pots up is a hard fight if they are good.

BA (no MT) - Without moving target, BAs are pretty easy for a hunter to kill

Reaver - I could easily kill most any reaver and have nearly full health if I wanted. But honestly I feel that the whole fleetness/kiting thing on a hunter is pretty cheap and ezmode. So since I use the standstill/mouseturn strat they have a much better chance against me and are a fun fight.

Defiler - With their flies up draining my power it can come pretty close since my power levels suck atm :P. I can still win against defilers but it is a longer fight and alot closer most of the time.

WLs - War leaders are about the same as defilers difficulty-wise. Power is an issue so I have to rely on crits sometimes. Still doable however.

BAs (MT) - Moving Target vs hunters pretty much = insta win for a good BA.

Now, depending on the person playing each of these classes difficulty can vary. Also depends on how many CDs they burn seeing as hunters dont have much to counter with.

~Kazniir