Thread: Are RKs unpopular?

I just started to play a runekeeper today, read a little through different threads and realised that Rks seem to be not very popular among other players. I've got a lvl 75 champ i really enjoy to play, but the RK seems very fun to play too. Are they really good at everything - but not good enough to be an exceptional healer or dps? My dps seems good at lvl 12
Is it hard for RKs to get in groups for endgame-content like orthanc? That's probably my main concern.

I am a 75 hunter and a 52 RK and I have never seen an RK rejected from a group for dps or heals. That said although they are not as good as minis at healing (although pretty good healers if you ask me), their dps is technically the best in the game.

Never tried one myself but a friend of mine has a 75 RK and it's great for healing or DPS. He's very happy with it, no problems whatsoever in endgame content in either role.

Also I've been in raids with both RK's and mini's and don't really notice a diference in healing efficiency. To me they are equally good if properly traited.

RK's don't have the power problems that mini's do. So they might even have an edge healing in a long fight. However, their heals are HoT's so, you have to be "out in front" of healing. Its not for everyone and a bad tank (or bad dps) can be an obstacle that an RK can't overcome.

Epic heals and epic dps....Every other class. other than cappy, are worthless

I agree on RK having huge dps.And you don't have to stand still to attack like hunters.Also RK doesn't get much aggro because their more powerful attacks come as they gain more attunement.

I'm pretty popular with myself
In seriousness, I have never had problems getting into groups for either role, so I say go for it!

Originally Posted by lasx

I just started to play a runekeeper today, read a little through different threads and realised that Rks seem to be not very popular among other players. I've got a lvl 75 champ i really enjoy to play, but the RK seems very fun to play too. Are they really good at everything - but not good enough to be an exceptional healer or dps? My dps seems good at lvl 12
Is it hard for RKs to get in groups for endgame-content like orthanc? That's probably my main concern.

My friend. RK healing is just as good if not better than minstrel healing. It really all depends on gear, traits and the player behind the keyboard.

As for RK dps.. it is exceptional.

End game grinding isn't easy though... see below.
Later on please take the following advice. Don't go with
hybrid LIs with both heals and dps legs... I have 5 active LIs :
1. Lighting dpslegacy legacy stone
2. Fire dps legacy stone
3. Fire /lightning combo legacy satchel
4. Heal legacy stone
5. Heal legacy satchel

It is quite a grind but worth it in the long run.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by Coruven

RK's don't have the power problems that mini's do. So they might even have an edge healing in a long fight. However, their heals are HoT's so, you have to be "out in front" of healing. Its not for everyone and a bad tank (or bad dps) can be an obstacle that an RK can't overcome.

Disagree. Anthem of composure with coda... mini should have no issues.

A RK who tries to play his/her RK like a hunter/minstrel/any other DPS or healing class will be unpopular. But if you realize that RK's aren't like anything else in the game, RK's are outstanding. Not sure what you mean by "unpopular," but I see lots of them when I log into Brandywine.

Just to be clear, RKs are by no means the best DPS in the game at the moment. RKs are certainly good, but a champ, hunter or burg pushed to its limit will out DPS an RK pushed to its limit. Although at that point, the DPS is far better than anything you'd get out of a random PUG anyways.

And RK healing is phenomenal, especially if you take the time to care about the buffs and debuffs you can now provide.

Originally Posted by Ellery01

Just to be clear, RKs are by no means the best DPS in the game at the moment. RKs are certainly good, but a champ, hunter or burg pushed to its limit will out DPS an RK pushed to its limit. Although at that point, the DPS is far better than anything you'd get out of a random PUG anyways.

And RK healing is phenomenal, especially if you take the time to care about the buffs and debuffs you can now provide.

I would like to show you some Avatar like Rune Keepers.Myself included.We bend fire,lightning,air and ice like no other Seriously they can't out dps a RK easily.Maybe hunter but not so much difference.

I normally heal on my RK but I also carry a level 75 minstrel. There isn't really a better or worse healer from playing the two classes a substantial amount. If I had to sum it up, the RK is more of a proactive healer while the minstrel is more of a reactive healer. Each class has it's own benefits that the other cannot provide as well.

For instance, my RK healer can throw bigger single target burst heals that my minstrel cannot match. I also find burst heals and power management easier on my RK--not to mention RKs can give out a small amount of power to the target they are healing (vice nice!). RKs also give out a nice tactical mitigation that I find myself using a lot on Orthanc runs. Other great points of RKs, the group bubble and Do Not Fall This Day skill (the RK in-combat rez equivalent). Both very useful in long drawn out fights!

Minstrels are wonderful for group heals but I will have to say if I happen to be without power, Anthem of Composure is very slow to build power back. They have some very nice buffs for the fellowship (extra will, resist rating, fellowship maneuver boosts, etc.). I also like Call to Greatness which helps Wardens and Guardians with initial aggro grabbing.

Anyhow, back to the topic at hand. I have never had an issue getting into groups with my RK so I beg to differ when people say that RKs are unpopular. With any class--it's the player behind the screen and the dedication applied to that particular toon that matters and contributes directly to how good that toon is. All the same I've seen wardens I know would kick a guardian's tush when it comes to tanking.

Just have fun!!

Originally Posted by choon_blaze

I would like to show you some Avatar like Rune Keepers.Myself included.We bend fire,lightning,air and ice like no other Seriously they can't out dps a RK easily.Maybe hunter but not so much difference.

They can out DPS an RK very easily, assuming player skill and gear are otherwise equal. That was my point. I love my RK, who is absolutely my main, and I DPS with him extremely well as I think any informed person on my server could attest to. But I do much better on my burg in our raids, not to mention helping the rest of the raid do much better too.

I believe that RKs and minstrels are fairly equal in healing power. However, I have to agree with the above poster though concerning DPS. RKs are good, but not the best when it comes to DPS pushed to the limit. Silly devs, boost our weapons already.

Despite improvements, many still have the perception that RKs are lacking when compared to hunters and champs for DPS or minstrels for healing. Just the other day, I joined a group for RoF tier 1 and the leader asked his buddy if he thought an RK could handle healing alone. I had already healed RoF tier 2 alone for other groups, but there will always be people who consider RKs the lesser choice. Similar situations occur when I attempt to join for DPS spots occasionally.

From a min/max perspective, ya, RKs are not first choice.

Originally Posted by Phoss

I believe that RKs and minstrels are fairly equal in healing power. However, I have to agree with the above poster though concerning DPS. RKs are good, but not the best when it comes to DPS pushed to the limit. Silly devs, boost our weapons already.

Despite improvements, many still have the perception that RKs are lacking when compared to hunters and champs for DPS or minstrels for healing. Just the other day, I joined a group for RoF tier 1 and the leader asked his buddy if he thought an RK could handle healing alone. I had already healed RoF tier 2 alone for other groups, but there will always be people who consider RKs the lesser choice. Similar situations occur when I attempt to join for DPS spots occasionally.

From a min/max perspective, ya, RKs are not first choice.

thats exactly how i see it too, rk dps is not the best compared to other classes though it is still pretty good

on the healing part: a decent rk is perfectly capable of healing any instances or raids in the game, even orthanc on t1 can be healed solo by a good rk

to the op: i dont think that you will have any problems finding groups

I can't speak for opinions on high level RK performance but remember that RK popularity might be thought to below simply because a large chunk of the player base (f2p) does not access to them. Their numbers are impacted by this greatly I imagine and many players level all through the lower levels without really seeing many. This is because you have to fork out $25 to access them and by the time you require the Moria expansion f2p players have leveled other classes to reach that content.

Fewer RK players means fewer good RK players which breeds misconception. Old players likely know what's what with RK's but newer player opinions might be scewed.

you will always be a lore breaker. Go back to the dark side and leave middle earth!


Hope that sums it up for you

Originally Posted by Ellery01

Just to be clear, RKs are by no means the best DPS in the game at the moment. RKs are certainly good, but a champ, hunter or burg pushed to its limit will out DPS an RK pushed to its limit. Although at that point, the DPS is far better than anything you'd get out of a random PUG anyways.

And RK healing is phenomenal, especially if you take the time to care about the buffs and debuffs you can now provide.

well I have found dps is verry situational.

There are situations were RK (fire DPS) is the best in the game hands down even post nerf. Saruman and Fire and frost a fire RK is king. Having 10 wite of fire and 10 MF's ticking on 10 targets is kinda OP. if you had 5 realy go fire RK's on 1 server saruman t2 would have already been cleared.

Originally Posted by ifreborn1

well I have found dps is verry situational.

There are situations were RK (fire DPS) is the best in the game hands down even post nerf. Saruman and Fire and frost a fire RK is king. Having 10 wite of fire and 10 MF's ticking on 10 targets is kinda OP. if you had 5 realy go fire RK's on 1 server saruman t2 would have already been cleared.

I disagree. For one, I don't see how RK fire DPS is any more useful in Fire and Frost than anything else, as there's no focus on AOE DPS at all the way I know everyone does it. In Saruman, an RK would have to spend all their time tabbing through targets to put a mystifying flame on everything, which is not their highest DPS skill anyways. One fiery ridicule on 3 targets is going to do more DPS than a mystifying flame on 2 targets. And even still, champ DPS is gonna be better for AOE assuming they trait for the additional 5 targets.

I am a numbers guy, and I've crunched the numbers very thoroughly as I also lead my kin's raids. Bottom line is, the only time I've ever considered using my RK for DPS other than just to dick around was in a t2 Shadow when we didn't have 2 or 3 hunters available. Burg is ALWAYS going to be better for the raid than an RK, due to the +6% crit and +10% incoming damage. Not to mention the utility they bring for many different situations. A hunter or an RK can definitely be a wash, and if both are good you're not going wrong either way. But, in a min max situation like zerging down acid t2, the hunter is better plain and simple. The new fall to wrath probably balances it out, but in terms of just DPS a hunter is several hundred ahead of an RK.

Originally Posted by Ellery01

I disagree. For one, I don't see how RK fire DPS is any more useful in Fire and Frost than anything else, as there's no focus on AOE DPS at all the way I know everyone does it. In Saruman, an RK would have to spend all their time tabbing through targets to put a mystifying flame on everything, which is not their highest DPS skill anyways. One fiery ridicule on 3 targets is going to do more DPS than a mystifying flame on 2 targets. And even still, champ DPS is gonna be better for AOE assuming they trait for the additional 5 targets.

I am a numbers guy, and I've crunched the numbers very thoroughly as I also lead my kin's raids. Bottom line is, the only time I've ever considered using my RK for DPS other than just to dick around was in a t2 Shadow when we didn't have 2 or 3 hunters available. Burg is ALWAYS going to be better for the raid than an RK, due to the +6% crit and +10% incoming damage. Not to mention the utility they bring for many different situations. A hunter or an RK can definitely be a wash, and if both are good you're not going wrong either way. But, in a min max situation like zerging down acid t2, the hunter is better plain and simple. The new fall to wrath probably balances it out, but in terms of just DPS a hunter is several hundred ahead of an RK.

t3 write of fire average tick 750 every 4 sec
MF average tick 750 every 3

MF x10 targets 7,500 every 3 seconds = 2500DPS
T3 write of fire x 10 targets 7,500 every 4 seconds = 1875DPS

DOT DPS = 4375DPS

Add in your other DPS skills Writ of Cold & Improved Scathing Mockery and you should be putting out over 5k DPS in saruman.

the set up would be each tank, tanking 5 sarumans and the the RK dps tabing through keeping MF up and using Improved Scathing Mockery to keep write of fire up and Writ of Cold to lower Improved Scathing Mockery's timer.

FTW

I don't think there's a whole lot of merit to earnestly discussing this stuff with you, as I've seen the kind of nonsense you've tried to pass on the burglar community already.

All I'm going to say is you're seriously delusional if you think you can use scathing mockery to get a t3 writ on any number of targets while simultaneously tabbing through a bunch of targets to mystifying flame. It's simply not feasible.

Originally Posted by Ellery01

I don't think there's a whole lot of merit to earnestly discussing this stuff with you, as I've seen the kind of nonsense you've tried to pass on the burglar community already.

All I'm going to say is you're seriously delusional if you think you can use scathing mockery to get a t3 writ on any number of targets while simultaneously tabbing through a bunch of targets to mystifying flame. It's simply not feasible.

Just one question do you have fire gear?


and maintaing a t3 writ of fire requires the use of 2 Scathing Mockery & 2-3 writ of cold every 30-40 seconds. not that hard with the right gear. and you can do 2 MF in 1 second now.


ill post a pic of my gear and LI's for you.


the reason there is so much fail in ToO is becaue people stack burgs. I think the devs must have played through t2 chalange and beat it and most of them cant even play a decent round in a FPS game from what i hear so maybe there is somthing wrong with the strat people use over and over and over.....

Originally Posted by Ellery01

I don't think there's a whole lot of merit to earnestly discussing this stuff with you, as I've seen the kind of nonsense you've tried to pass on the burglar community already.

All I'm going to say is you're seriously delusional if you think you can use scathing mockery to get a t3 writ on any number of targets while simultaneously tabbing through a bunch of targets to mystifying flame. It's simply not feasible.

This is correct, ifreborn1 is a troll of the first degree. When you see him post, simply shake your head, walk away, and be grateful you don't have to deal with them in real life.

But wait, what if he's right...all we need to do is bring in 5 fire RKs and we'd have Saruman T2 down! lol

Im no troll I bring the truth to the people. The burg is dead long live the RK.

maybe when you get 30k unbuffed tac mastery and 10k unbuffed crit you can be a DPS RK too

Rks are very unpopular, if you ask creeps about it.

Next time you do a t1 Saruman, I welcome you to post a SS of your combat analysis after the last 3 phases of the fight. I'm really looking forward to seeing your 3-4000 DPS.

rk is the far worst class in the game.
as an old rk main. and qurrent warden main and burglar alt player i can say rk dps is not as good as burglar hunter warden champion and lore master on range. also even minis can do higher dps than rks probably but i dont know aboht that. except minis i personally tried all over personally.
so you can say dps is not everything. yes it does does not. so whats rk armour and def.? nothing. worst armour and even worse bpe. with 5% evade trait you may get 6% total evade bonus. which is funny.
other than self heals can make a class very strong like wardens. lets see. which heals can we use while dpsing. writ of heal. and ? prelude of hope. as we all think so prelude of hope is not a serious healing skill its a joke. other than writ of heal is like a 400 heal every 4 sec if you spend enough time to build it. probably way less than that cuz i may remember the heal setup. i probably do.

so what else? no good dps. no good defanse. no good self heals. no good avoidance. not enough debuffs. most rks thing they are ok but they all bunch of noobs in my eyes. rk is living their worst times ever and need a fix. and its not possible cuz nobody asks that. so i basicly left my rk and im just healing with him.

as a healler how is rk?
its basicly not enough for group playing. cuz minis can heal way faster our main heal has 2 sec induction. so rk content fits like a 3rd healler who heals the tank. or 2 rk in a group to heal that group. but while healing a single target builded up hots heal the target like 800 heal per sec.

but if youre not thinking mainly healing
think about this

my warden's damage defance avoidance self heal. EVERYTHING is better than my rk and they both are decently geared.


OMG. i just saw someone calculated 4k dps on saruman fight.
let me light that thing. SM does have 5 max target. and you cant choose its targets and ALSO it chooses same targets.
so its basicly half of 4k so its 2k dps. and if you ask any champ who doing aoe-ing in 10 target. they can reach those 4k numbers and this time its real. sorry but a burglar reaching 2k dps in 1 target.

MY FRIEND. leave your rk before its too late. i made a mistake and leveled mine to 75. i wish i had leveled a mini instead of rk. but i had no choice when update came my both toons nerfed and i didnt have to tome level from 0. i levled a burglar after to fill a dps role. but i really REALLY regret that i have an rk. its just sad and measurable. people going to tell me dont cry about it but come on. which one of you reached over 1.3k dps out of melee range or 1.5k in melee range which means youre dead soon. which one of you actualy could survived from 2 wargs ? 2 wargs would be rk food before update. and now they would kill you in a couple sec. (and dont dare to mention you killed 2 wargs if they are low ranked).

my poorly geared burglar gets 1.5k dps on limlight spiders and my warden gets over 1.3k on them. rk? about 1k ranged 1.2 or 1.3 melee range. you can possible check my gear as well. by clicking my name over there. my rk is not a poorly geared weak rk he is quite good.

may the rks be away form you brother. have fun.

If your warden is out DPSing your RK then you're being terrible. RKs are fine, the difference between a really good hunter and a really good RK is going to be like 5-10% tops. It's not make or break by any means.

My point was simply that in terms of capability, RKs are fourth in the line of DPS classes.

their dps is technically the best in the game.

To which game are you referring?


Best Regards,
A hunter who out DPSes RKs.

Originally Posted by draganil

rk is the far worst class in the game.
as an old rk main. and qurrent warden main and burglar alt player i can say rk dps is not as good as burglar hunter warden champion and lore master on range. also even minis can do higher dps than rks probably but i dont know aboht that. except minis i personally tried all over personally.
so you can say dps is not everything. yes it does does not. so whats rk armour and def.? nothing. worst armour and even worse bpe. with 5% evade trait you may get 6% total evade bonus. which is funny.
other than self heals can make a class very strong like wardens. lets see. which heals can we use while dpsing. writ of heal. and ? prelude of hope. as we all think so prelude of hope is not a serious healing skill its a joke. other than writ of heal is like a 400 heal every 4 sec if you spend enough time to build it. probably way less than that cuz i may remember the heal setup. i probably do.

so what else? no good dps. no good defanse. no good self heals. no good avoidance. not enough debuffs. most rks thing they are ok but they all bunch of noobs in my eyes. rk is living their worst times ever and need a fix. and its not possible cuz nobody asks that. so i basicly left my rk and im just healing with him.

as a healler how is rk?
its basicly not enough for group playing. cuz minis can heal way faster our main heal has 2 sec induction. so rk content fits like a 3rd healler who heals the tank. or 2 rk in a group to heal that group. but while healing a single target builded up hots heal the target like 800 heal per sec.

but if youre not thinking mainly healing
think about this

my warden's damage defance avoidance self heal. EVERYTHING is better than my rk and they both are decently geared.


OMG. i just saw someone calculated 4k dps on saruman fight.
let me light that thing. SM does have 5 max target. and you cant choose its targets and ALSO it chooses same targets.
so its basicly half of 4k so its 2k dps. and if you ask any champ who doing aoe-ing in 10 target. they can reach those 4k numbers and this time its real. sorry but a burglar reaching 2k dps in 1 target.

MY FRIEND. leave your rk before its too late. i made a mistake and leveled mine to 75. i wish i had leveled a mini instead of rk. but i had no choice when update came my both toons nerfed and i didnt have to tome level from 0. i levled a burglar after to fill a dps role. but i really REALLY regret that i have an rk. its just sad and measurable. people going to tell me dont cry about it but come on. which one of you reached over 1.3k dps out of melee range or 1.5k in melee range which means youre dead soon. which one of you actualy could survived from 2 wargs ? 2 wargs would be rk food before update. and now they would kill you in a couple sec. (and dont dare to mention you killed 2 wargs if they are low ranked).

my poorly geared burglar gets 1.5k dps on limlight spiders and my warden gets over 1.3k on them. rk? about 1k ranged 1.2 or 1.3 melee range. you can possible check my gear as well. by clicking my name over there. my rk is not a poorly geared weak rk he is quite good.

may the rks be away form you brother. have fun.

My Friend,

This seriously made me ROFL. Thanks for the entertainment post

Unpopular? You mean hard to find a group? I think RK have better chance to get into a group than hunter/mini, b/c we can be a dpser or healer. When a group lf healer, RK can fill it, not a hunter or a champ, when they lf dps, we can take it too (can a hunter switch to heal and bubble the whole fellowship in 2s? No they can't. That's our advantage). Mini's dps has been upgraded, but i still rarely see they go dps in a pve group. If you play your class well, there is no reason people in your server dont wanna inv you (except when they dont need your role/someone else send tell before you and/or have better gear). I healed RoF with out capt or cc, I healed ToO T2... RK have np as a healer.

Originally Posted by draganil

rk is the far worst class in the game.
as an old rk main. and qurrent warden main and burglar alt player i can say rk dps is not as good as burglar hunter warden champion and lore master on range. also even minis can do higher dps than rks probably but i dont know aboht that. except minis i personally tried all over personally.
so you can say dps is not everything. yes it does does not. so whats rk armour and def.? nothing. worst armour and even worse bpe. with 5% evade trait you may get 6% total evade bonus. which is funny.
other than self heals can make a class very strong like wardens. lets see. which heals can we use while dpsing. writ of heal. and ? prelude of hope. as we all think so prelude of hope is not a serious healing skill its a joke. other than writ of heal is like a 400 heal every 4 sec if you spend enough time to build it. probably way less than that cuz i may remember the heal setup. i probably do.

so what else? no good dps. no good defanse. no good self heals. no good avoidance. not enough debuffs. most rks thing they are ok but they all bunch of noobs in my eyes. rk is living their worst times ever and need a fix. and its not possible cuz nobody asks that. so i basicly left my rk and im just healing with him.

as a healler how is rk?
its basicly not enough for group playing. cuz minis can heal way faster our main heal has 2 sec induction. so rk content fits like a 3rd healler who heals the tank. or 2 rk in a group to heal that group. but while healing a single target builded up hots heal the target like 800 heal per sec.

but if youre not thinking mainly healing
think about this

my warden's damage defance avoidance self heal. EVERYTHING is better than my rk and they both are decently geared.


OMG. i just saw someone calculated 4k dps on saruman fight.
let me light that thing. SM does have 5 max target. and you cant choose its targets and ALSO it chooses same targets.
so its basicly half of 4k so its 2k dps. and if you ask any champ who doing aoe-ing in 10 target. they can reach those 4k numbers and this time its real. sorry but a burglar reaching 2k dps in 1 target.

MY FRIEND. leave your rk before its too late. i made a mistake and leveled mine to 75. i wish i had leveled a mini instead of rk. but i had no choice when update came my both toons nerfed and i didnt have to tome level from 0. i levled a burglar after to fill a dps role. but i really REALLY regret that i have an rk. its just sad and measurable. people going to tell me dont cry about it but come on. which one of you reached over 1.3k dps out of melee range or 1.5k in melee range which means youre dead soon. which one of you actualy could survived from 2 wargs ? 2 wargs would be rk food before update. and now they would kill you in a couple sec. (and dont dare to mention you killed 2 wargs if they are low ranked).

my poorly geared burglar gets 1.5k dps on limlight spiders and my warden gets over 1.3k on them. rk? about 1k ranged 1.2 or 1.3 melee range. you can possible check my gear as well. by clicking my name over there. my rk is not a poorly geared weak rk he is quite good.

may the rks be away form you brother. have fun.

Where on Middle Earth are you getting these numbers and what kind of RKs have you been playing with?

My RK yellow line traited with epic conclusion hits upwards of 5k alone standard. Not to mention you forget the RK skills such as group bubbles (which are provide more morale than a minstrel) and That Which Does Not Kill Us which does a group HoT of 400+ morale tick per second. My Essence of Winter does three targets while DPS traited can hit each target about 2k minimum a piece and sometimes more. Not to mention I do not have outrageous stats on mine but I have taken the time to understand the skills and gear it.

(Kudos to Apentures for the 2100+ will!!! O_O)

My advice is probably read the skill descriptions prior to just button mashing. Some skills offset and increase the DPS of other skills. There's a reason why it's not a basic class to play with the added challenge of being super squishy plus limitations to light armor.

Perhaps watch what RKs can do on Youtube because it seems the ones you've been around have been sorely neglected too soon and its complexities never understood.

Besides why bother with the RK thread if you're not a fan of them