That's the question I ask myself. I started to play since short with a warden and I have to say that as complicated as it seems I enjoy it. I am lvl 20 now. Until now I just used random gambits.
So has Turbine some information about the way we should memorize all the gambits? and where can I find it? Thanks in advance!
I've just come to memorize it through usage. I have never looked at a gambit chart, I just know which ones to use through practice. It's something you will come to understand through more practiced gameplay. But as I said, there are gambit charts that you can look at to help you memorize them I think. I just don't know where to find them as I have never needed them before.
I have a huge print-out of the Warden Gambit Chart on my desc, with personal comment and lots of extra coloured symbols added to help me find what gambit I'm looking for. If you are playing solo and go in recklessness, there are also some great charts at CSTM by Harperella that may be a bit easier to work with if you are starting out.
After a while, you will come to recognize which gambit line gives what kind of effect. There is some basic logic in there, starting with spear gambits (those that start with a spear or javelin builder) that are primarily damage dealing, shield gambits specialize in defensive and healing effects, and fist gambits have most of the primary threat effects.
Look for one specific kind of effect first, figure out which gambit or combination of gambits gives the effect you want, then start using it at every possibility. Once it's burned itself into your brain, add another effect and try to add the gambits for that effect to your gameplay. Eventually, you will know when and how to use all of the different gambits without thinking or looking things up all the time.
What helps me is to concentrate on the gambits I need to use to complete class deeds. I then check my skill tabs to refresh my memory on what those gambits are/do. Then I try to rotate through as many of them in each battle as I can. You eventually get a feel for what they do and you will start to see a pattern to how they are built. Memorizing the patterns is easier to start with. Once you figure out the patterns, you can put a name to them. Concentrate on gambits you currently have available and not the ones you don't. Then as you level, start to incorporate any new gambits/skill you learn. Truth is you don't really need to memorize all the gambits.
I'm leveling aWarden myself atm and I will build it for tanking. Theses charts (see end of post) help me a lot while I'm leveling but both of them are not complete/up-to-date.
When I'm at the level cap where I have access to all gambits I will make two lists similar to it - one for Recklessness and one for Determination, since the U6 Wardens main stances now completely change your skills/gambits way of working two different charts will be necessary. (Yes I will ignore Assailment cause its kinda similar to Recklessness.) So one for tanking and one for DPS which you both can print out and use as a reference while playing.
1 word: practice. Eventually it will all come to you. I don't even look at my gambit panel these days unless I'm lagging.
I don't think that even with practice you are able to recall and execute all 40 different gambits with all knowing what each of them does in particular and what gambit-order you need to execute them.
I mean sure you have a handful of favorite gambits that you use for a fixed rotation (f.e. to grab aggro) but since every single gambit has its unique effects you need to do a lot (or all) of them as well in certain special instances / encounters.
I know there are a lot Wardens out there which only use like 4 different gambits and than wondering about their in-affectivity. (I saw them … I see them … a lot of times) Especially because if you really know what you are doing (and that you do, when you want to be good in playing a Warden) you can/need to make use of different gambit effects which can effect each other and/or stack.
Like the Rune-Keeper (which is the other advanced class) a Warden needs to use all of the options the Warden has to play him as it is intended - to actually make him work properly. Especially when you want to be a main tank in end-game raids, you can't just use your three 5-piece fist gambits and think that if you keep spamming them you will have an easy job keeping threat.
I know 4 really good Warden Tanks (don't know about DPS Wardens) - but thats all. The rest is doing either DPS or aren't able to keep aggro from Hunters/RKs for longer than one minute.
But as I said - I'm still learning. Cant wait to do end-game tanking with my Warden (who now btw is only lvl 47). But I do a lot of reading/watching and talking to other Wardens.
I don't think that even with practice you are able to recall and execute all 40 different gambits with all knowing what each of them does in particular and what gambit-order you need to execute them. [snip...]
Actually, with Update 6.0 Wardens really have something north of 100 gambits now, because most of them now do different things in each of the 3 stances (tanking, melee dps, ranged dps)...
The generation of random numbers is too important to be left to chance.
Actually, with Update 6.0 Wardens really have something north of 100 gambits now, because most of them now do different things in each of the 3 stances (tanking, melee dps, ranged dps)...
Yeah I know … I didn't count the Assailment Gambits … I was only counting the Shield, Fist and Spear Gambit from the Warden lore book page. (http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Class:Warden) Maybe they are not complete but for the lvl 1 to 74 gambits that are all that are listed there.
But still even it would be "only" 40 different gambits it would be hard to memorize them all. Additionally it would be even harder because in each stance nearly every gambit has different effects. Than an amount of 100 sounds about right indeed. No one can know them all with their gambit-order, effect and difference in each stance.
In the lower levels of my warden, I found it hard to memorize them too. But now my warden is nearing lvl 60, I have no problems with memorizing them all. Just keep leveling and 'playing' with the gambit builder.
In the lower levels of my warden, I found it hard to memorize them too. But now my warden is nearing lvl 60, I have no problems with memorizing them all. Just keep leveling and 'playing' with the gambit builder.
I know. I as well start to memorize more and more of them. But the thing to additionally to its Gambit order is to also know what effects and side effects all of them have in each of the stances and how they affect you, the fellowship and each other.
I don't think that even with practice you are able to recall and execute all 40 different gambits with all knowing what each of them does in particular and what gambit-order you need to execute them.
You don't think? Really, it does eventually become instinctual. I'm working on mastering the ones that are new since I played before, and learning the new stance changes, but at least before they made a bunch of changes to the class I and probably most people with a warden main knew every gambit and what it does (although not necessarily the actual proper name for all of them).
I know. I as well start to memorize more and more of them. But the thing to additionally to its Gambit order is to also know what effects and side effects all of them have in each of the stances and how they affect you, the fellowship and each other.
Indeed. That is why I am leveling with two kinmembers, a burglar and a mini. Besides the effects of the gambits on ourselves and on our fellowship. We also need to know all the effects of our class- and legendary traits.
You do not need to know every gambit the warden can do. Gambits follow a simple pattern and once you understand it the class will seem less complicated. When you are lvling up, you simple focus on using gambits for your deeds.
If you break the class down, the main things you use gambits for are:
-Dps (starts with a spear)
-Healing (starts with a shield)
-Threat (starts with a fist)
Yes there is more you can do like remove corruptions, buffs, interupt and many more but it is wise to learn the basics.
The 3 roles a warden can perform is:
Gambits may function differently between stances but they are built the same way.
Just like every class in this game you only need to use a small amount of skills given to you to perform you desired role.
By pressing k you will bring up the skill panel. Click on the gambit tap and it will show you every gambit you have learnt. Toggle between your 3 stances and see what the gambits do.
If you play smart, by the time you hit 75 you will know all the gambits required to perform your role. You then practice by grouping up with a fellowship.
Then it just takes time to practice them. Each line kind of follows a pattern of what it does. Like the shield-spear line is for your HoTs (in determination). The difference the stances make on the gambits makes it a little more challenging. The one nice thing for a new warden is that you get to work with masteries much earlier. You used to have to play the class one way until you hit 50 and then relearn all of your gambits using masteries. I'd suggest using them ASAP - because it increases the speed that you can generate gambits making you a better warden in almost every situation.
I don't think that even with practice you are able to recall and execute all 40 different gambits with all knowing what each of them does in particular and what gambit-order you need to execute them.
Yah you can. After you do them thousands and thousands of times, you memorize them. And by 75 you will have done them thousands and thousands of times.
The brain is capable of far greater things than just memorizing 40 gambits (or 100 for that matter).
Curiously, the evolution of the internet seems inversely proportional to the evolution of man.
You will memorize them if you play your warden enough, with the changes since U6 all of us Wardens have been back to school learning what the effects of the gambits do in each Stance, personally I have not really looked at the effects in assailment stance (except for conviction lol) and that will continue, for ranged pew pew I will finish levelling my Hunter.
As Myst said new wardens are luckier having access to Masteries at lvl20. This is the 3rd time I have had to relearn a major aspect of being a Warden.
I know instinctively the 20-25 Gambits and what their effects are I could use tanking, but that is only half the story there are several ways to build them and so the actual key combo's to produce that same required gambit could vary everytime - this is the joy of the warden to me .. its not just a key mashing 1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6 rotation , its being aware of what you have done , what you need to do now and what you probably need to do next (if only I knew when the next stun was coming or the lottery numbers )
Getting a Gold Class Item "Soon™" - Currently running 999th ITA Instance
The brain is capable of far greater things than just memorizing 40 gambits (or 100 for that matter).
I lold. Must spread some rep around before giving it to danno8 again blah blah blah.
Actually the gambit system does become second nature. Muscle memory and instinct tend to take over after lots of practice. Want something to really screw you up? get a heavy attack speed penalty for awhile. To this day i get unnerved when i have to break muscle memory to compensate for attacking much slower all of a sudden.
As others have said the gambits follow a pattern and once the patterns are recognized its not bad at all to know what to do. It just takes lots of practice
I thank you all for the information, charts, etc. It seems all very complicated but I suppose it's all a matter of practice (and time, lots of time lol) as you say. The charts contain many information and gambits I still don't have because I am still low level and that I dont yet understand. But I am sure it will be very helpful in the near future. I hope also to discover the pattern that according to you there is behind the gambits so it will be easier to play.
The charts and all are great advice and i looked at a few of them but to me its really much more simple than that.
First off all the types of attack have patterns and are basicly extentions of themselves...Ill give examples.
Basic interupts and multi swing attack gambits are 12,121,1212 (ok 12 is kick but it is an interupt you get the point)
Single strike attacks pure dps 123,1231,12312 See its kind of a circle. Most of the gambits are either a circle or A-B-A-B back and forth.
Self heals are ABAB again 21,212,2121,21212.
Defence buffs 213,2132 and tactics goes the other way 2312...Circles.
Single target agro 31,313,3131 ABAB back and forth.
And Tot skills 32 (aoe) 323 (single target) 3232 (single target) 32323 (aoe with chance to fear) ABAB sutff
Threat leaches from fellows 232,2323,23232 Aggression is a circle 3213 and Deflection 231
Life leaches 312,3123,31232 yes the last one breaks the circle but only a couple 5 builder gambits do that. dark before dawn is the only other one i can think of. and that is 12131 its kind of a back forth back to the other and forth...
That is 90% of the gambets there and it is really not that hard once you look at it this way. A couple other needed gambits to keep in mind are 132 Reversal (coruption removal) 1321 Adroit and 13213 Wardens triumph. These are also a circle they build off each other and do unique things so maby consider this the "specials circle"
And your battle memories....do i need to list them? 11 22 33...:0)
Thats all there is to it. Now a lot of these have special features to them like conviction also heals the felowship and 1212 has a perry buff and dance of war has evasion buff....Those kinds of things are easyer to remeber when you understand the basic concept to building the gambets and you dont have to think about what they are anymore and start to focus on what the extras are. That is when you really start to feel powerful. I hope this helps :0) Some of these cross over a little like 32 also has a self heal attached. But thats more a neuance.
I think thats all the gambits? Did i miss anything? Sorry bout my spelling.
Last edited by Ackibo; Apr 26 2012 at 07:21 AM.
Change your point of view and change the way you perceive everything.
The charts and all are great advice and i looked at a few of them but to me its really much more simple than that.
First off all the types of attack have patterns and are basicly extentions of themselves...Ill give examples.
Wow. Thanks. That is really helpful. I actually will make myself a chart based on that pattern - well with a little more detail. But this is great. When I look at it the way you described it, it maybe won't take that long to learn at least a proper basic rotation.
remember the beauty of the class is that rotations are not set in stone, unlike other MMO's where you do the power required over regen , compared to various cd's of the skills .. there becomes only 1 'best' rotation for class A tanking or class B DPS'ing.
Learn the skills and gambits, yes understand the basics of what the rotation needs if its tanking threat,defense, etc or DPS'ing bleeds, power return , javelin etc .
BUT don't learn and set in stone a gambit order that you will always use, e.g. you are at full morale, and the next gambit on your rotation list is a HoT, think why not insert another gambit or 2 before it , what they are depends on situation.
The biggest piece of advice I can give is not to actually start by memorizing all of the Gambits. Try just memorizing the series that a Gambit belongs to. For example. The Spear icon usually starts the majority of our DPS Gambits. From this you know that Spear-Shield is The Boot. Continue down "The Boot Line/Series" and you will get Onslaught. Spear-Shield-Spear. Keep going and you'll get Wall of Steel. Spear-Shield-Spear-Shield. Those three Gambits all do two things. Interupt inductions and straight DPS. Therefore you know that if you only have time to squeeze in a Boot, it will have the same effect as Wall of Steel just with a less magnitude. That's three Gambits that all do similar things of different magnitudes, and all you have to remember is that they belong to Spear-Shield. The same goes for our HOT. Shield-Spear. Start there and add more as you tier up your heals.
By just memorizing what each series/line of Gambits do you will greatly reduce the number of Gambits that you actually need to remember.
Use your masteries too. I am at the point now where I know if I press Alt+3-Control+2-Shift+2 it will give me EoB. You'll get to know them all in time.
remember the beauty of the class is that rotations are not set in stone, unlike other MMO's where you do the power required over regen , compared to various cd's of the skills .. there becomes only 1 'best' rotation for class A tanking or class B DPS'ing.
Learn the skills and gambits, yes understand the basics of what the rotation needs if its tanking threat,defense, etc or DPS'ing bleeds, power return , javelin etc .
BUT don't learn and set in stone a gambit order that you will always use, e.g. you are at full morale, and the next gambit on your rotation list is a HoT, think why not insert another gambit or 2 before it , what they are depends on situation.
+1 to this. Try and create numerous rotations for any given situation. When solo'ing a tougher Elite or Boss, I usually have three different rotations that I can use in one given situation. Defensive Rotation, Self Healing Rotation, and DPS Rotation. Obviously, as you have already stated, if I am at full health then I would be better off using my DPS Rotation for the time being.
The charts and all are great advice and i looked at a few of them but to me its really much more simple than that.
First off all the types of attack have patterns and are basicly extentions of themselves...Ill give examples.
Basic interupts and multi swing attack gambits are 12,121,1212 (ok 12 is kick but it is an interupt you get the point)
Single strike attacks pure dps 123,1231,12312 See its kind of a circle. Most of the gambits are either a circle or A-B-A-B back and forth.
Self heals are ABAB again 21,212,2121,21212.
Defence buffs 213,2132 and tactics goes the other way 2312...Circles.
Single target agro 31,313,3131 ABAB back and forth.
And Tot skills 32 (aoe) 323 (single target) 3232 (single target) 32323 (aoe with chance to fear) ABAB sutff
Threat leaches from fellows 232,2323,23232 Aggression is a circle 3213 and Deflection 231
Life leaches 312,3123,31232 yes the last one breaks the circle but only a couple 5 builder gambits do that. dark before dawn is the only other one i can think of. and that is 12131 its kind of a back forth back to the other and forth...
That is 90% of the gambets there and it is really not that hard once you look at it this way. A couple other needed gambits to keep in mind are 132 Reversal (coruption removal) 1321 Adroit and 13213 Wardens triumph. These are also a circle they build off each other and do unique things so maby consider this the "specials circle"
And your battle memories....do i need to list them? 11 22 33...:0)
Thats all there is to it. Now a lot of these have special features to them like conviction also heals the felowship and 1212 has a perry buff and dance of war has evasion buff....Those kinds of things are easyer to remeber when you understand the basic concept to building the gambets and you dont have to think about what they are anymore and start to focus on what the extras are. That is when you really start to feel powerful. I hope this helps :0) Some of these cross over a little like 32 also has a self heal attached. But thats more a neuance.
I think thats all the gambits? Did i miss anything? Sorry bout my spelling.
This exactly. You don't really need to memorize all the gambits. Simply memorize the pattern and what you have to remember goes down significantly.
...
Basic interupts and multi swing attack gambits are 12,121,1212 (ok 12 is kick but it is an interupt you get the point)
Single strike attacks pure dps 123,1231,12312 See its kind of a circle. Most of the gambits are either a circle or A-B-A-B back and forth.
Self heals are ABAB again 21,212,2121,21212.
Defence buffs 213,2132 and tactics goes the other way 2312...Circles.
Single target agro 31,313,3131 ABAB back and forth.
And Tot skills 32 (aoe) 323 (single target) 3232 (single target) 32323 (aoe with chance to fear) ABAB sutff
Threat leaches from fellows 232,2323,23232 Aggression is a circle 3213 and Deflection 231
Life leaches 312,3123,31232 yes the last one breaks the circle but only a couple 5 builder gambits do that. dark before dawn is the only other one i can think of. and that is 12131 its kind of a back forth back to the other and forth....
That's also a very usefull information Ackibo, Thx!
Bij de way what do you exactly mean with ABAB sutff en Tot?
That's also a very usefull information Ackibo, Thx!
Bij de way what do you exactly mean with ABAB sutff en Tot?
I'll give this a shot. I think ABAB is just saying to alternate the values, as in for example, hit spear shield spear shield, etc. I think sutff is probably a typo and should be stuff. Lastly, Tot means Threat over time.
You learn gambits by practicing them, but the problem is not learning the 40+ (100+) gambits, it's learning the different ways to execute them with the masteries.
I would figure out which I needed for a situation (mostly tanking since that's the most responsibility) and then figure out all the possible combinations by myself and then practice them. It get hard when you are very used to using a certain pattern and then try to change it, but practice makes it smooth.
You then very soon know exactly what to use for what situation and what pattern to use to keep yourself open for buff reneval or interrupt or whatever it is you'll need in the next couple seconds. We are a pro-active class after all.
Yeah there's no easy way, just practice practice practice. Then you'll be able to play warden while drunk and still get praised
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Proud member of WeRock Alliance.
As a long time Warden all I can offer that has not already been said is practice often and play your Warden consistently.
The charts are a great starting point and so are memorized openers but at some point you will know you are getting really good when you can change up gambits on the fly for just what the group needs in that moment. That includes changing stances now as necessary in order to give your fellowship a boost.
The other thing I would really advise is as soon as a trait becomes available start using that gambit everyday until the bar is yellowed out. I was glad to have most of my traits done very early. You used to need them for the masteries. I have not leveled a warden up in a long time so don't quite know how it works at the lower levels. This will do two things for you it will get your traits done as soon as possible which is always a good thing and by spamming the gambit you will become familiar with what the based length 2 or 3 gambit does. Wax on/wax off right, paint-a-fence, right?
Ackibo posted some great information to keep in mind as you learn your Gambits. They all have patterns that build on each other. Longer versions or more powerful versions of similar skills, some with added effects.
If you play often enough and consistently enough you will get to the point where you are thinking 3 or 4 gambits ahead of where you are and what is needed. You will not need a chart. What you need loaded in Battle Memory, what does and does not need to be battle preped etc. I know that I never ever sat down and memorized all the gambits but I did sit down and look at some of the charts and came to a very zen-like understanding of the logic behind all of them. Even now with the different effects in different stances there is an intuitive logic to it all.
All that being said .... I hate hate hate being slowed as well it totally throws me off, almost as much as I hate being stunned.
The other thing is you will always be figuring new things out. Just this last raid I came up with a new mastery/builder combination for SoD. I was like oh that will work too and it fit better if I need this gambit before and that gambit after....light bulb....it is why I love the class.
They values alternate ABABA - or its a reference to a Nintendo controller. UUDDLRLRABABSELECTSTART
HAHA Contra with 2 players for an extra 30 life. If your playing it solo you dont use the select. Old school with the uuddlrlr i thought it was abba not abab
But in my post what i ment by ABAB is one builder then another builder and back to the first so 1212 or 2323 3131 one builder then another and back to the first = abab.
And yes that was a typo i ment "stuff" and Tot is Threat over Time.
Last edited by Ackibo; Apr 29 2012 at 03:14 AM.
Change your point of view and change the way you perceive everything.
Practice, practice, practice. usage, usage, usage, usage, usage. It also helps that turbine gives you 2 levels to commit to memory the new gambit(s) that you get every other level.
I have been learning them by focusing on the deeds. Heck after you spam 50 shields up with 50 taunts for the day and repeat for 4 days you learn them pretty well
I have been learning them by focusing on the deeds. Heck after you spam 50 shields up with 50 taunts for the day and repeat for 4 days you learn them pretty well
This was also a good way to learn them. I focussed on a selected handful of the deeds and concentrated on them for a play session. I alternated from day to day, but in the end it seemed to work pretty well.
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How can you memorize all the gambits?
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Re: How can you memorize all the gambits?
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