Thread: About That Warg Pack Problem......

Originally Posted by LOTROOO

Yes it's an issue on every server but on smaller servers such as DD every single problem is magnified bc of the low pop.

This has been my only point the entire time. There's absolutely nothing wrong with playing a warg until EVERYONE does it. And on this server, 10 people out on creepside at the same time are a significant percentage of everyone.

EDIT - I hope creeps remember when Toa made The Thieves Guild a little while ago and came to the moors with a burg raid. Same thing happens when wargs are out in those numbers, it's not fun for anybody. Notice how I'm saying IN THOSE NUMBERS. Again, it's only an issue when a significant percentage of creeps out are wargs, which happens very often.

EDIT again - burg pack was actually hilarious, but not something you'd want to see every day :P

I don't really have much of a problem with warg packs (although I do find them annoying sometimes when I'm having a good 1v1 and then they take all my inf, although same thing happens when other freeps come along.... too bad I can't say when it should be like CM :P ), HOWEVER, we do have a much lower degree of active healers most of the time. Seen a good number of WLs out lately though, but if half of the wargs rolled a healer (or even just a support class like spiders), we'd have much less of this feeling I'd think. Only problem is that if all these wargs are pushed into being a different class..... guess what? We're going to have another "class of the month". Add this to all the better freeps that are leaving, and things don't look good. So I think we really just need some more freeps to come out, and maybe a more balanced ammount of creep classes, but don't push all the wargs into leaving/changing class (otherwise it'll go back to complaining of not enough wargs).

Thanks to every replier.....is that a word?....yep, just checked...for giving me more clarity on this issue.

What I have learned:

*anything over-used or used in the wrong conditions can become a problem, including warg packs....

*there is no evidence that warg packs are over-used on DD, as the absence of consistant mixed-class raids (my own witness in relation to creeps raids has been this: high ranked creeps solo 90% of the time, they get killed one time too many and the shout goes out "alright creeps, time to group up!") and the pittance of NON-DEGRADING guidance from higher-ranked creeps make them an acceptable and effective play mode for wargs, especially low-ranked ones...

*the majority of high-ranked creeps form their opinions on what's best for THEM, and try to masquerade it as what's best for the server......even bowing to freep's often unfair, hypocritical whining if it will keep those infamy points flowing for THEM...I know, I know, that astronomical infamy bar dictates this....

*I personally need to fight the exaggerated image in my head of freeps sucking on pacifiers, wearing diapers, and rocking their crib bars angrily while wearing footie pjs.......that's just as over-the-top, jaded, and distorted as they see the warg pack issue...

*DD needs a few MATURE, dependable, non-freep-favoring-flippers, who love the battle more than their own glory, to pop up and lead creep raids with more regularity (I'm having warm, gooey, noobish memories of Vurgash raids). This would make for less ganking/zerging from both sides.

*biggest thing I have learned is that I don't know when to shut up...(didn't say I LEARNED when to shut)......

Just for the record, I've been creeping almost exclusively for the past several months, on those rare occasions when I do show up in the moors. Lavsnack has been agreeing with me this entire time, and he's another moors veteran that's played both sides heavily. Wassup, I'm going to assume that you're relatively new to the moors and have probably only played creepside. This doesn't make your opinion less valuable, but it does make it less informed. The only point I've been trying to get across is that the enormous amount of wargs on our server is bad for both sides. Play both teams long enough and you'll start seeing what makes for good gameplay. Freepside's main issue is they go heal-heavy and creeps can't kill anything. This is where grouping and coordination come into play, neither of which is common for Dwarrow.

EDIT - I hear the last few days have seen some really good fights, I hope it continues.

Play what you want, adapt or don't play. DD just needs bodies for PvP, I'm sure it will be the recommended server soon and for all of you who plan on sticking around I'd expect an influx of people when the hobbit movies come out. I know I plan to play again around that time.

Server consolidation should be in the cards sooner or later, deal with the ebbs and flows till then.

Originally Posted by Warth

Just for the record, I've been creeping almost exclusively for the past several months, on those rare occasions when I do show up in the moors. Lavsnack has been agreeing with me this entire time, and he's another moors veteran that's played both sides heavily. Wassup, I'm going to assume that you're relatively new to the moors and have probably only played creepside. This doesn't make your opinion less valuable, but it does make it less informed. The only point I've been trying to get across is that the enormous amount of wargs on our server is bad for both sides. Play both teams long enough and you'll start seeing what makes for good gameplay. Freepside's main issue is they go heal-heavy and creeps can't kill anything. This is where grouping and coordination come into play, neither of which is common for Dwarrow.

I must have represented my experience poorly, as I have been playing LOTRO many years, and have played both freep and creep side extensively (just prefer creep side in the Moors as it is a bigger challange). One would be hard-pressed to refer to me as inexperienced.....must have used the term "noob" one time too many in reference to myself.

As far as seeing what MAKES good gameplay? I've SEEN good gameplay, and I've seen what's destroyed it. That's why I made this thread. I love LOTRO'S vision of pvmp, lumpy and lopsided as it is, and I know when it just hits a smidgeon of where it should be it is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much fun, and that's why we play, right? (think this is where I'm suppose to shutup, or was it before this paragraph? ahhhh, I don't know!)

I lol in relief at this thread and how I'm not involved in the 15+ warg pack ganks on soloers who then congratulate themselves trololololol. Moors will be Moors, trucking along long angry paragraphs in its wake

Originally Posted by Iriella

Naa wasn't referring to you in particular, just a general statement, as 'too many heals' has been tossed at freeps quite a bit that I've seen lately. Granted, we could stand to lose a healer or 2 sometimes, but the same argument could be made about the wargs ;p. It is what it is. Creeps will play what class they want to, freeps will do the same. Of course, 43 is a bit of an exaggeration lol, although it seems pretty close sometimes >.<

Back when i was first starting my filer i was doing some group v group with 2 filers and a wl as well as assorted dps, fighting a group with 2 healing minis a healing captain and more dps. After we rolln them a few times they all flip and tell us they wont pvp unless some of our healers flip to diferent classes. I literally loled. I dont think ive ever heard of a creep doing that but i might be wrong. This was before wargs went flavor of the month ofc and now idk where im goin with so imma stop now i love you guys
~glora

FYI last night there was some good (at least in my opinion) battles basically 1 creep raid and 1 freep raid..... and guess what there was only 1 warg for every 6 players. Personally I don't see this as too much and the fights seemed fairly balance.

To the point though about what freeps will do with so many wargs, I noticed that each time the freeps were rolled they came back with more heals. This happened reguardless of more or less wargs and was actually just a response to being rolled. So yes if Warg groups roll freeps the freeps wil bring out more and more heals until they either log in frustration or push back whatever group is out there.

Also on another point of Op'ness (and no that's not a word i just made it up) of wargs, the warden-champion combo the freeps used before the raid actually started up had no problem fending off multiple warg attacks. So just another option for freeps other than "more heals" option. I shudder to imagine a 6 man warden-champion team out there laughing at pounce after pounce.

So while I understand the freeps love their toons, us serious warg players also lover our toons too, so before asking us to play another class feel free to change to a new one yourself, as I said wardens didn't seem to have any problem surviving against wargs out in the moors.

Wompado

The only time we ever added more heals (from about 10:30-midnight server time, when i was on) is bc I happened to log on heal traited and was invited and passed lead, so I healed. And we lost a cappy as soon as I logged in. We never added any more heals the rest of the ~1.5 hrs i was on, nice try.

You had like 6 defilers, not sure why you're complaining about 1 cappy, 1 rk, and 1 mini?

Originally Posted by LOTROOO

The only time we ever added more heals (from about 10:30-midnight server time, when i was on) is bc I happened to log on heal traited and was invited and passed lead, so I healed. And we lost a cappy as soon as I logged in. We never added any more heals the rest of the ~1.5 hrs i was on, nice try.

You had like 6 defilers, not sure why you're complaining about 1 cappy, 1 rk, and 1 mini?

Lav, Lav, Lav... you should know by now 6 defilers = 1 1/2 minstrels >8D}{

Not complaining, was trying to make a point that it's not wargs that will cause more healing freeps, but creep success, in general.

I certainly only had a creep perspective on the healing portion so if you say no real healing was added i'm not going to argue that. Again I thought the fights were fairly balanced, and rolled to different locations based on a slight edge one way or the other.


Womapdo

Originally Posted by Cardal

Warg packs are fine. But the sheer amount of wargs is ridiculous. Pop an aoe around your target, 5 wargs pop up, plus the 3 wargs that stun you while you were supposedly having a 1v1.

Turtlez point about the wargs that just shadow you and then pop out after your target is half dead or w/e is ridiculous.

It's all ridiculous.

I QQ about wargs so much it's ridiculous.

One day, on cm, I got tired of sitting on cm, so i go to ec. Got warg ganked by 8 wargs. so I go back to cm and just sit there. A good rule of thumb is for every 1 visible creep, theres at least 2 wargs. Also, there's never a solo warg.

I never warg pack on my warg. Ofc course I don't play my warg anymore because when I try to solo and I jump something several other wargs I'm not grouped with jump it too then I feel bad cuz it looks like I'm in a wag pack. I hope reavers or defilers are the next flavor of the month

Originally Posted by LOTROOO

The only time we ever added more heals (from about 10:30-midnight server time, when i was on) is bc I happened to log on heal traited and was invited and passed lead, so I healed. And we lost a cappy as soon as I logged in. We never added any more heals the rest of the ~1.5 hrs i was on, nice try.

You had like 6 defilers, not sure why you're complaining about 1 cappy, 1 rk, and 1 mini?

Also lav I think what he was talking about regarding bringing in more heals was the night before last and you weren't there. By the time I logged they had 5 or 6 minis with 3 healing at the least, as well of 3 captains healing 2 of them obviously HoH triaged wasn't sure about the other one. Im not 100% sure but I thnik that's what was being referred to. Either way this RvR has been rly good lately, but I wanna chance to solo on my reaver

Originally Posted by LOTROOO

The only time we ever added more heals (from about 10:30-midnight server time, when i was on) is bc I happened to log on heal traited and was invited and passed lead, so I healed. And we lost a cappy as soon as I logged in. We never added any more heals the rest of the ~1.5 hrs i was on, nice try.

That is a flat out lie. Over the course of the fighting freepside had 3 cappies (Eomen, Hiriath, and someone who's name escapes me atm), at least 4 minstrels (Iriella, Zeva, Torqky, and Gormard), and 2-3 RKs (Mstone, Marvi, and possibly someone else).

I don't believe they had all these people at one time, but over the course of the fighting that was how many showed up. And there were never less than 2 cappies, 2 minnies, and 1 rk at any given time.

I also felt as though the fights were very good and we had some great competition from both sides, so don't take this as complaining. But don't lie to yourself and everyone else by acting as if you didn't have any heals.

Originally Posted by LOTROOO

You had like 6 defilers, not sure why you're complaining about 1 cappy, 1 rk, and 1 mini?

More like 3 defilers. Bauce, Wakakalaka, and someone else. Granted, we had some WLs as well (I think shap actually came out at one point), so that added to our healing somewhat, but we were never toting around 6 defilers.

Sry andrag, from what glor said you're definitely talking about 2 nights ago. I was out last night for about an hour and never saw you and had exactly what I said I had in my raid.

I count as 10 minstrels even red traited, Lav, you know this.

Originally Posted by Doomsie

I count as 10 minstrels even red traited, Lav, you know this.

I count as 10... err 1/10th champs even health traited. Doom, you know this.

Originally Posted by Zoar

I count as 10... err 1/10th champs even health traited. Doom, you know this.

I count as 10... i mean 1.0 spiders even warg traited. Ray, you know this.

Originally Posted by LOTROOO

Sry andrag, from what glor said you're definitely talking about 2 nights ago. I was out last night for about an hour and never saw you and had exactly what I said I had in my raid.

Hmm, I'm fairly confident that what I'm referring to happened last night, but come to think of it, I don't believe I was on during the time you stated.

It's possible I'm referring to some fights that happened a few hours earlier than the one you are referring to. ./shrug

omnomnomnonomnom

This server just needs new Atadors
Except that these new Atadors should spam track wich the real one didn't do as much (he just hits too fuggin hard)

Getting tracked near a freep raid waiting for someone to get low health
And getting some stunning arrow in your warg butt and then see the whole fraid running to you, well that blows.


Anyways about that warg pack problem.......
From what i've seen last 2 days especially at peak time there's a lot of different classes.
not just 2 ba's and 10 wargs, I'd say our moors is getting better

Originally Posted by Sampo

This server just needs new Atadors
Except that these new Atadors should spam track wich the real one didn't do as much (he just hits too fuggin hard)

Getting tracked near a freep raid waiting for someone to get low health
And getting some stunning arrow in your warg butt and then see the whole fraid running to you, well that blows.


Anyways about that warg pack problem.......
From what i've seen last 2 days especially at peak time there's a lot of different classes.
not just 2 ba's and 10 wargs, I'd say our moors is getting better

When are we going to do some Limlight dailies =(

Originally Posted by LOTROOO

Sry andrag, from what glor said you're definitely talking about 2 nights ago. I was out last night for about an hour and never saw you and had exactly what I said I had in my raid.

Lav we only had 5 defilers. I remember us talking about it. I'm a reaver now not a defiler I think you added me in there

Keep in mind that most defilers on this server are below rank 6, and they seem to be the flavor of the week lately so there were a lot of rank 2-5 defilers in that raid the other day. A low rank defiler can just about out heal the auto-attacks of most freeps if left unchecked (beware!). I'm going to also guess the vast majority of the defilers the other night had rank 1 audacity. Not sure if we're talking about the same fights though.

Originally Posted by Sampo

This server just needs new Atadors
Except that these new Atadors should spam track wich the real one didn't do as much (he just hits too fuggin hard)

Getting tracked near a freep raid waiting for someone to get low health
And getting some stunning arrow in your warg butt and then see the whole fraid running to you, well that blows.


Anyways about that warg pack problem.......
From what i've seen last 2 days especially at peak time there's a lot of different classes.
not just 2 ba's and 10 wargs, I'd say our moors is getting better

I'll try my best once I get back xD!

From what the forums has been looking like, DD's PvMP is getting slightly more organized, and these topics have helped sort out some problems. Though since I haven't been able to play for almost two weeks, I wouldn't know exactly :P

I love tracking my wargies It's a nice reminder to me and them that we can see eachother xD

Since when have we had a warg problem?