Thread: About That Warg Pack Problem......

There is a lot of talk about the great evil of warg packs.

My own opinion was solidified the other day. I was running from TA to WTAB when suddenly a whirlwind hit me. I was locked down and destroyed in a matter of seconds. I made a sloppy count of about 6 running away from my lone defeated body, and that's when I realized how ridiculously wrong it was.

By "it" I mean the idea that warg packs are evil and destroying the Moors. The "pack" that I watched move on to the next victim was comprised of burgs, loremasters, champions, and at least one rk.

The only reason warg packs are being discouraged is because the victims of these cyclones are freeps and because they can be highly successful. The idea is being pushed on creep side mostly by FFFs (freep-favoring flippers) and by higher ranked creeps who are at one moment screaming "we need to group, we need to group" and in the next discouraging grouping just because it is populated by one particular class.

All the whining proves you're doing something right. Keep packing wargs!

As an afterthought, I also would like to encourage creeps to roll whatever class you so choose. There is much discouraging of new wargs, made by others (playing -of course- whatever class THEY want). Players come and players go (as evidenced by the big exodus of higher ranked creeps to other servers - I like to refer to it as "the big flush.") Fresh ugly faces will always be needed in ALL classes of creeps. You're the one playing it, so pick the one you enjoy the most.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

+1... I've seen this happen before waaaaayyyy back when the server was just 3 months old... "Too many wargs" & "We need new players to roll something other than a warg" ... well (for some reason) creeps listened and a month later it was... "There isn't enough wargs to counteract the minstrels" & when the few wargs on packed up, "You guys should pack up more often." We have NO current problem with wargs. Pvmp feels no different now than it did then... btw on E and Vanyar there are TONS of wargs... and the pvmp still rocks.

Thank you very much for this, too many people playing exactly the way they want are spending a lot of time trying to tell us Wargs how to play.


Wompado

no offence, and im talking both creep and freepside, but when i see a warg pack, i just map for the day, on sycarius that is, and if im on creepside and see wargs i log also. no offence but it seems more of a renown leach then it does to take 6 wargs to gank one target, it's basically us taking 6 burgs, lets allow this and gank every creep repeatedly forever and ever and ever? the cycle turns into basically let's all make wargs lets all make burgs and sit in stealth for maybe 12 hours tryin to detect eachother because neither one of us are to the point wanting to die, imo lots of the low rank wargs should go( saying this because you all need defilers, good ba's, spiders, reavers) not wargs, basically a lot of the good wargs ive known stop playing because of the pack, and stop playing creepside in general too, for this. honestly you need more class consumption. it's like raiding 101 you need healers, dps, tanks, support, but to much dps, might be good but you can get rolled because you have no heals, ex: alohire, guido, me(sycarius) alohire healed, we basically wiped out the pack in few seconds while they tried to kill our healer, but failed because they have no support, no heals, but straight dps, since the lm, and burg basically had dps, support(cc/heals/power) we could help our healer and still do a reasonable dps without worrying about dying and not taking most down. even though lots of the wargs are learning, it's still a bit crazy to have 12 wargs and nothing else, get rolled because you lack comp.

It is not new that freeps are so much better than creeps, not to mention the lame commendations cost for creeps skills.
So yes, if you want to start a warg, go ahead and do it, make warg packs and try to counter freeps OPness. It is the class that you will die less with and probably have more fun.
BUT... If you are a high rank warg and only know how to play with a pack (like 95% of the failures from prowlers, plus 95% of failures from other tribes), then yes, you are a noob and I will be back farming and reminding you of how you fail you are as soon as I come back to Dwarrowdelf pvp (which will not happen unless devs make a considerable advance in terms of balance on update 7 and a major update to pvp on the next expansion).
At the moment I am done with lotro "store pvp", I will be playing my spider occasionally on elendilmir until Guild Wars 2 is out then i will try it, depending on how it is, i am not coming back to this Devs forsaken game.

In short: Go ahead everyone and play minstrels/burglars on freep side or wargs on creep side. Seems like it is what devs want. Don't forget to buy your skills via store if you are playing creep side, since you won't get then until at least rank 6. And don't forget to buy the store brands and trackers, no matter what side you are playing. Turbine approves.

Haters gonna hate. And remember, no matter how much you QQ, no matter how much you hate me, I used to farm every fail warg on this server except Lavsnack on my lm and I was a better warg than 99% of them when i started my own warg. So just swallow the hate.

Smellycat and Lavsnack > rest > Nibble > prowlers.

Whining below.

DD doesn't need more wargs, it needs more good wargs.
DD doesn't need more of any class, it needs more good players of every class freep and creep side.
Unfortunately when good players appear, the bad players log or qq until the good players leave.

There's nothing wrong with playing a warg, but the way people play on Dwarrow is a major cause of the pathetic PvP. I'll attempt to break it down for you with as little wall-o-textiness as possible.

The way this server is, you can have 8 freeps out, 2 visible creeps, and 8 solo wargs. Because no one is grouped (they don't want to share infamy), the 2 visible creeps hide in NPCs to avoid being zerged. If/when freeps charge into NPCs, the squishies will suddenly be pounced by 6 wargs and die, then the wargs will all HIPS out or sprint away and most likely the 2 visible creeps were cut down as well. This causes animosity because now there are 1 or 2 people on both sides who are not only primary targets, they're the ONLY targets. Obviously they get frustrated and log eventually. This makes people on both sides just feel like they're being zerged, despite nearly even numbers, because no one is grouped or working together.

When you can't see the people on your side, you can't rely on them. I cannot count the number of times I've seen stealthed wargs on creepside just sitting by a fight watching it, waiting for someone to get low enough that they'll die off the pounce, and do absolutely nothing if it doesn't get to that point. They HIPS and sprint immediately and are nothing but cowards leeching off of whatever they can. Burgs can be the exact same way, but it's harder to tell because it takes significantly more effort to get a burg in the moors than a warg.

Larger servers have warg packs, yes, but they have enough people to counter balance it because there's always enough on to fight. On Dwarrow, there's only ever 1 fight happening in 1 location. The pop is too low to support nothing but solo warg packing. There needs to be a balance of classes.

If tl;dr - when there are 2 visible creeps out and a dozen solo wargs, the wargs are directly responsible for the server feeling "zergish," even if the numbers on both sides are equal.

EDIT - I'm not tell any of you how to play, but I am saying that collectively the WAY you play is stupid, incompetent, and a major reason so many talented people on both sides left :P

Originally Posted by LOTROOO

DD doesn't need more wargs, it needs more good wargs.
DD doesn't need more of any class, it needs more good players of every class freep and creep side.
Unfortunately when good players appear, the bad players log or qq until the good players leave.

I have no problem with bad players.... gotta remember there are ppl behind those characters and just because they have a hard time learning the ropes doesn't mean the better players are justified in bad mouthing them. I know plenty of mediocre players who are very funny/nice ppl. Now we do need less of the impatient beginners... impossible to teach them.

To all the ranked creeps: Pls remember we started out inexperienced... no one starts out playing magnificently...

Originally Posted by RainsLegacy

no offence, and im talking both creep and freepside, but when i see a warg pack, i just map for the day, on sycarius that is, and if im on creepside and see wargs i log also. no offence but it seems more of a renown leach then it does to take 6 wargs to gank one target, it's basically us taking 6 burgs, lets allow this and gank every creep repeatedly forever and ever and ever? the cycle turns into basically let's all make wargs lets all make burgs and sit in stealth for maybe 12 hours tryin to detect eachother because neither one of us are to the point wanting to die, imo lots of the low rank wargs should go( saying this because you all need defilers, good ba's, spiders, reavers) not wargs, basically a lot of the good wargs ive known stop playing because of the pack, and stop playing creepside in general too, for this. honestly you need more class consumption. it's like raiding 101 you need healers, dps, tanks, support, but to much dps, might be good but you can get rolled because you have no heals, ex: alohire, guido, me(sycarius) alohire healed, we basically wiped out the pack in few seconds while they tried to kill our healer, but failed because they have no support, no heals, but straight dps, since the lm, and burg basically had dps, support(cc/heals/power) we could help our healer and still do a reasonable dps without worrying about dying and not taking most down. even though lots of the wargs are learning, it's still a bit crazy to have 12 wargs and nothing else, get rolled because you lack comp.

Warg packs have been occuring since the beginning, and your scenario of only burgs/wargs has NEVER OCCURRED. Scratch that problem.

Next, if the warg packs are fail, then what's to complain about? Free reknown for the freeps?

Let's see....if there aren't enough healers, then why don't all those who feel this way roll a healer themselves? PROBLEM SOLVED!

If good wargs are leaving because of warg packs.........that makes no sense to me so I can't address it. I only know of one "good" warg leaving the server, and I have no clue to why...hope it wasn't for such a strange reason.

DD pvmp will boom when it gets a few "true creep" leaders, instead of FFFs. I think Vanyar is a good training ground for success..... the most awesome server ever, where warg packs, full raids, rez fights, open-field battles, etc. all co-exist and thrive, and there is no bragging or complaining.

Okay, the last part is probably not true...I just don't understand German. 8D

I dont blame the wargs popping up lol for all i can tell most are probably reavers from roi-now when they were freevers and by being farmed consistantly at quest spots or being beaten 30 to 8 or so freeps that being invisible seemed like a good idea and just saved up tp to buy a warg... lol just a reason why theres a good amount of wargs, keeping my opinion on the matter of good/bad to myself but can understand why they would prefer a warg to a greenie reaver

Originally Posted by New_Requiem

I dont blame the wargs popping up lol for all i can tell most are probably reavers from roi-now when they were freevers and by being farmed consistantly at quest spots or being beaten 30 to 8 or so freeps that being invisible seemed like a good idea and just saved up tp to buy a warg... lol just a reason why theres a good amount of wargs, keeping my opinion on the matter of good/bad to myself but can understand why they would prefer a warg to a greenie reaver

I haven't been able to catch you online Shap D:

Originally Posted by LOTROOO

DD doesn't need more wargs, it needs more good wargs.
DD doesn't need more of any class, it needs more good players of every class freep and creep side.
Unfortunately when good players appear, the bad players log or qq until the good players leave.

I appreciate your opinion, no matter how off it is from mine.

Gladden had a thriving, awesome pvmp atmosphere with some of the best creep leaders ever (Didnthurt, Vurgash, etc). Went back a while ago and it was a ghost town (hopefully it is rebounding now).

What killed it? Bad players? Bad wargs? Nah....it was the hypocritical whining and complaining of the freeps about EVERYTHING that didn't benefit them. Drove those awesome creep leaders straight to Meneldor.

Besides, there are a lot of different opinions on what a "bad" player is...won't give my definition, it's probably way off from yours.

Wargs, keep packing!

Originally Posted by Warth

The way this server is, you can have 8 freeps out, 2 visible creeps, and 8 solo wargs. Because no one is grouped (they don't want to share infamy), the 2 visible creeps hide in NPCs to avoid being zerged....This makes people on both sides just feel like they're being zerged, despite nearly even numbers, because no one is grouped or working together...When you can't see the people on your side, you can't rely on them.

I rarely agree with you Borken but this pretty much sums up what I would have said if I weren't too lazy to type it up. This is my main problem with warg "packs" -- both the freeps and visible creeps feel like they're being zerged although the numbers might be even on both sides. Solo wargs or wargs running in a mixed raid, I've got no problem with.

So, it's annoying and I've resolved not to roll a warg myself. I also try not to heal warg packs but I usually forget. However, no amount of whining on here is going to change things so freeps should just be staying grouped as much as they can. Dwarrowdelf has enough drama as it is. Just have fun and kill stuff.

On another note, it would be nice to see some new freeps out. It seems like the last week it's just been the same 5-10 seasoned freeps in a group, mostly BR people. We've had some decent 10v10 type fights but I want some more squishies. Can't you captains find anything else to do? You make the fights take so long

Originally Posted by asearchforreason

I rarely agree with you Borken but this pretty much sums up what I would have said if I weren't too lazy to type it up. This is my main problem with warg "packs" -- both the freeps and visible creeps feel like they're being zerged although the numbers might be even on both sides. Solo wargs or wargs running in a mixed raid, I've got no problem with.

As a person who predominately plays visible creeps, I can honestly say that I have NEVER felt any of this. NEVER. So many wargs have saved my posterior......solo, small group, and packs....and I appreciate all of them.

I am constantly zerged (not just feeling zerged, but ZERGED) by freeps, and I have zero complaints....I think they are suppose to want me defeated, and get it done any way they can (without exploits, if you please). If freeps can't come back at warg packs with strategies that work against them (besides trying to shame them out of existance), then I guess those freeps that can just haven't found their way to the Moors yet.

Too many wargs packed, freeps cry. Freeps add heals to counter the warg packs, creeps cry. If we're expected to suck it up and deal with the 43 wargs out daily, then you can suck it up and deal with the extra heals. Just saying.

Originally Posted by Iriella

Too many wargs packed, freeps cry. Freeps add heals to counter the warg packs, creeps cry. If we're expected to suck it up and deal with the 43 wargs out daily, then you can suck it up and deal with the extra heals. Just saying.

+1... always use what you can to win (excluding exploits). Minnies are a great way to counteract warg packs.

Also, never listen to the enemy...

Originally Posted by Iriella

Too many wargs packed, freeps cry. Freeps add heals to counter the warg packs, creeps cry. If we're expected to suck it up and deal with the 43 wargs out daily, then you can suck it up and deal with the extra heals. Just saying.

I can only assume that you are directing this at someone other then me (original poster) as I didn't complain about any such thing.

I totally agree with you...outside of that very specific, extremely large number of 43. I have never seen anywhere near that number of wargs out, but I understand the exaggeration...............I once heard Xuneng referred to as a raid. 8o

my point of view there are several reason wargs pack, other than its efficient.

Alot of Higher ranks (including myself) dont like to group with low ranked people, so lowbie wargs group up and try and gank a single target to get by, thus this is the only way they know how to play, they get to higher ranks and try to solo and find out they cant so they make a warg pack again.

It was stated that they also do it to counter act fraids stacking heals nowadays, also true but it happens because creeps cant get kills when there are atleast 1 mini and a cappy in every group spam healing, so the people with low dps who cant get past the front lines, make a warg and suddenly they can make it through the fraid and get anyone they choose, and people like doing this.

another reason is wargs are one of the OP classes of the month, for lack of better words. people like to play something very easy when they first start out and wargs are decently easy to get infamy from and therefor comendations.

lastly all the new wargs are created because people dont want to learn how to play something that isnt ez mode. nore do they want to play a class such as a healer because the dps sucks so u get much less infamy, and it is still hard to finda group as a healer at lower ranks.

I personally dont heal wargs unless they are my friend, to hopefully thin their population , we used to have warg packs back in the day but none as bad as this.

Originally Posted by Wassup

I can only assume that you are directing this at someone other then me (original poster) as I didn't complain about any such thing.

I totally agree with you...outside of that very specific, extremely large number of 43. I have never seen anywhere near that number of wargs out, but I understand the exaggeration...............I once heard Xuneng referred to as a raid. 8o

Naa wasn't referring to you in particular, just a general statement, as 'too many heals' has been tossed at freeps quite a bit that I've seen lately. Granted, we could stand to lose a healer or 2 sometimes, but the same argument could be made about the wargs ;p. It is what it is. Creeps will play what class they want to, freeps will do the same. Of course, 43 is a bit of an exaggeration lol, although it seems pretty close sometimes >.<

My experience is this...I run around solo to get "a nearby creature is hidden from your sight" every 15 steps. I find a freep i begin debuffing said target.. i will fight them for about 15 secs when 2-3 wargs will jump in and i get bout 20 infamy for doing all the work.... These wargs that follow me around never pop out of stealth to help me, they just pop out to steal my points. Soon as a group shows up and attacks me they peace out. I often see wargs sprinting to targets im clearly winning against just so they can get points from me. I have never seen one pounce something and sprint away to save me. I can never find freeps out solo anymore because they dont like getting killed by warg packs. Wargs are getting 10k infamy a day and taking no risk/deaths while im dying all the time and i would be lucky to get 2k a day.

Originally Posted by Iriella

Naa wasn't referring to you in particular, just a general statement, as 'too many heals' has been tossed at freeps quite a bit that I've seen lately. Granted, we could stand to lose a healer or 2 sometimes, but the same argument could be made about the wargs ;p. It is what it is. Creeps will play what class they want to, freeps will do the same. Of course, 43 is a bit of an exaggeration lol, although it seems pretty close sometimes >.<

I've been ganked by 15 wargs before, which they confessed to having, 15v2 is just lawlsily silly, but do what you do for your 1 point haha. Though protip to wargs: your cds can be used aggressively, which helps you to get points with lower numbers ;D

Originally Posted by Doomsie

I've been ganked by 15 wargs before, which they confessed to having, 15v2 is just lawlsily silly, but do what you do for your 1 point haha. Though protip to wargs: your cds can be used aggressively, which helps you to get points with lower numbers ;D

I understand the frustration of large numbers shredding you to bits, as it is so common for me to be chased down (when solo) and laid out by large groups of freeps ....... I generally expect it. But now I feel insensitive because I never felt concerned for how tiny the portion of reknown was for each freep. Boo on me....

Originally Posted by Wassup

I understand the frustration of large numbers shredding you to bits, as it is so common for me to be chased down (when solo) and laid out by large groups of freeps ....... I generally expect it. But now I feel insensitive because I never felt concerned for how tiny the portion of reknown was for each freep. Boo on me....

This is exactly what I was talking about. Freep groups get a small handful of points off of the visible creeps because the wargs just run away. Warg packs get like 4 points each because they all ganked 1 target and ran. At the end of the day, certain people have been zerged repeatedly and probably rage logged, and everyone has lost out on a huge share of points they should've gotten. Warg packs are awful for both sides, because that's literally all that's out.

Originally Posted by Warth

This is exactly what I was talking about. Freep groups get a small handful of points off of the visible creeps because the wargs just run away. Warg packs get like 4 points each because they all ganked 1 target and ran. At the end of the day, certain people have been zerged repeatedly and probably rage logged, and everyone has lost out on a huge share of points they should've gotten. Warg packs are awful for both sides, because that's literally all that's out.

I need to be enlightened in some way, because this really confuses me. I apologize for my ignorance, but I did not know any of us were entitled to a share of points, and I did not know that it was fail to defeat one person and then hips..no, wait.... disappear after said conquest. Also, since I'm not the type of guy to rage-log after being repeatedly zerged by freeps, I didn't consider others doing it.

I also need some schooling on reading the leaderboards, because I have mistakenly read from them that freeps are getting a WHOLE LOT of reknown, when they have actually been getting shorted. With a little help, I'll get this all figured out.

As for the high-ranked creeps complaining about losing infamy to warg packs, I understand that the monumental amount of infamy you need at those levels causes a switch from an "us-against-them" mindset to an egocentric one (I'm still croobish on this server, but I do understand). Kudos to Rayzr though, because I've never heard you complain about sharing your kills......as a matter of fact, what's that thing you say? "Where my wargies at?"

Originally Posted by Wassup

I need to be enlightened in some way, because this really confuses me. I apologize for my ignorance, but I did not know any of us were entitled to a share of points, and I did not know that it was fail to defeat one person and then hips..no, wait.... disappear after said conquest. Also, since I'm not the type of guy to rage-log after being repeatedly zerged by freeps, I didn't consider others doing it.

I also need some schooling on reading the leaderboards, because I have mistakenly read from them that freeps are getting a WHOLE LOT of reknown, when they have actually been getting shorted. With a little help, I'll get this all figured out.

As for the high-ranked creeps complaining about losing infamy to warg packs, I understand that the monumental amount of infamy you need at those levels causes a switch from an "us-against-them" mindset to an egocentric one (I'm still croobish on this server, but I do understand). Kudos to Rayzr though, because I've never heard you complain about sharing your kills......as a matter of fact, what's that thing you say? "Where my wargies at?"

No one is entitled to anything, I'm just explaining to you why people complain about PvP so much. Honestly, I don't really care since I don't play on Dwarrow very often anymore, so feel free to continue being an impertinent #######. If someone else would step up and explain things in my place, I would gladly stop posting.

And yea, freeps do make WAY more points than creeps. Why? Because creep kills only come from warg pack zergs of 1 guy instead of coordinating to take down a whole group of freeps :P. Check the leaderboards after days of raid v raid fights and you'll notice significantly higher point gains for creepside.

Originally Posted by Warth

No one is entitled to anything, I'm just explaining to you why people complain about PvP so much. Honestly, I don't really care since I don't play on Dwarrow very often anymore, so feel free to continue being an impertinent #######. If someone else would step up and explain things in my place, I would gladly stop posting.

And yea, freeps do make WAY more points than creeps. Why? Because creep kills only come from warg pack zergs of 1 guy instead of coordinating to take down a whole group of freeps :P. Check the leaderboards after days of raid v raid fights and you'll notice significantly higher point gains for creepside.

Wow...."feel free to continue being an impertinent #######"...........in answer to this, I'd like to say.......nah, I got nothing.

I'll just restate my point and be done. Warg packs are effective, and have their place in the scheme of things . And from my experience of being ganked, re-ganked, zerged, rezerged, and then chest-thumped by large mobs of freeps(not complaining, just saying) I can not, do not, will not agree, that a little of the same aimed in the other direction should be considered bad for DD (can dish it out but can't take it).

There are people who create a good pvmp atmosphere, and there are those who need to move to ones already created......turnover on servers is inevitable. I trust that eventually DD will end up with the right groups on each side to make for some great pvmping.

That's still my story, and I'm still sticking to it........

Dear Wargs,
ALL YOUR POINTZ BELONGZ TO ME! AND MAY THE FREEP HEALERS SPAM YOUR TARGETS AND NOT MINE!
<3-Turtles
P.S. WOOF WOOF!

Warg packs are fine. But the sheer amount of wargs is ridiculous. Pop an aoe around your target, 5 wargs pop up, plus the 3 wargs that stun you while you were supposedly having a 1v1.

Turtlez point about the wargs that just shadow you and then pop out after your target is half dead or w/e is ridiculous.

It's all ridiculous.

I QQ about wargs so much it's ridiculous.

One day, on cm, I got tired of sitting on cm, so i go to ec. Got warg ganked by 8 wargs. so I go back to cm and just sit there. A good rule of thumb is for every 1 visible creep, theres at least 2 wargs. Also, there's never a solo warg.

Freeps should definitely heal.
Don't think it's unfair just because creeps don't have any defilers.
Yesterday there were some great small group fights with marvi/raeka's group and ours
As soon as one of those 2 rk's started healing the fight got way more interresting.

And i guess one of the problems with wargs (especially packs) is that they get kills and run or disappear.
The other side IS going to leave if they get no kills. (common sense)

If there's 2 squishy hunters i'd kill everytime they get out of tr rez on their way to ec.
Might they be able to hit me too much once (with backup perhaps) i have 2 cd's to get away without dieing.
There's no other creep class that would be able to do this.
Other creeps would die, the 2 hunters are happy and they have less reason to ragequit.

tl;dr
I'm joining the moors to have fun, to kill, to get killed and for a good laugh.
And i'll glady do something else in lotro if i'm only getting killed.

Originally Posted by Torqky

Dear Wargs,
ALL YOUR POINTZ BELONGZ TO ME! AND MAY THE FREEP HEALERS SPAM YOUR TARGETS AND NOT MINE!
<3-Turtles
P.S. WOOF WOOF!

Nuuu! T_T But seriously how come it's only wargs that get such a beating on here -_-ll Sure, other people QQ about other classes on here too (i.e. BAs, minis, burgs), but it always seems that people have a personal vendetta when it comes to wargs. Tbh, we are the least of your problems out there. Dunno how it is now, but I don't remember ever being able to put out as much damage as other classes, plus I'm pretty sure that wargs are one of the squishiest creep classes out in the moors (spiders being 1st imo). If you want to have some control over warg packs, bring out a hunter who actually understands the importance of tracking. Otherwise, as many have said, just go out there and kill some stuff. What happens, happens lol

I don't mind wargs all that much, if they are not noobs that just wait till ~1k morale (which happens ALOT) im free game, come pounce me. The only thing that irritates me is when i find 1-2 creeps and im alone or stray from the group im not LOL healing so i can win, im trying to get a good fight then when im almost dead 3-4 wargs come out and still the kill. To those noobs learn some manners, if your to scared to attack when a freep has more then half morale then dont attack at all

Originally Posted by Sampo

Freeps should definitely heal.
Don't think it's unfair just because creeps don't have any defilers.
Yesterday there were some great small group fights with marvi/raeka's group and ours
As soon as one of those 2 rk's started healing the fight got way more interresting.

Actually there was at least one of us healing that entire time; it wasn't until I started healing and Raeka went to DPS that it became fair .
I do agree that the freeps who can should often be healing. The problem is that none of the freeps ever want to share renown with a healer by grouping with one, and Alohire is the only healer I know who heals with less than 5-6 people. The way that I heal out there relies heavily on rousing words and writs, which requires that I be grouped for it to actually work.
I would also like to add that full 24 man (even 15-18 man) RvR all the time (which is what some seem to be pushing for) isn't really much better than constant warg swarming IMO. Having more than about 15 creeps or freeps (of just about any class composition) all focusing on a single target kinda defeats the purpose behind having healers, since those unfortunate targets tend to get blown up pretty much instantly, preventing heals from actually happening much of the time. I personally find the most enjoyable fights are the ones with 6-12 people on each side and 2-3 healers (captains, wls, minis, defilers, and/or rks). Anything more and the squishies get zerged too fast to be healed. And these types of fights could happen almost every day, if people were more willing to actually group up.
Oh, and this is a bit off-topic, but I feel it needs to be said: Guido, when you're in a raid creepside, wouldn't it make more sense to tell the raid to focus the healers who are actually healing, rather than the ones who are DPSing?

ok so let me see if i have this straight

1) don't pounce my kills (unless i'm about to die then pounce and save me or your a noob)
2) don't pounce my kills (unless he's about to get away and you could have stunned or slowed him you noob)
3) don't group up, you kill freeps and they will log (also see pouncing my kills, those were my infamy anyways)
4) don't group up, wargs heals stack (that makes you harder to kill and isn't fair)
5) don't play a warg (they are ez mode, you should play a reaver they are really tough to win on)

I'm sure there's more and at some point they start to contradict each other... anyways I think I'll just try to get my kills any way I can and I'll ask for forgiveness from those who thought I unfairly poached on their infamy. In addition I will also try to continue to stun those freeps who are chasing you creeps down. ( I promise to save you too Iliketurtles and sorry if I missed you before). I understand if you don't heal me (Believe me I surprised when you do), I will still attempt to play my part in whatever battle is currently underway.

The other day I actually watched a warleader try and take on a Boss solo ( he was doing just fine) but I didn't attack cause I was like hmm should I help? is he trying to solo this?? It's crazy. Add in unwrtten rules of CM and who knows what else i'm not even aware of and it's insane.

Anyways all this thread and others like it are doing is letting me know that I gotta be me because there are people here who will never be happy with the way things are, it will always be something and QQing is easier than adapting.

Wompado, ganking and warg zerging with the worst of them.

I think what some people are saying is that warg packs, while effective in getting kills, are not effective in acquiring points for creepside (i.e. not good for pvmp). Here's a common scenario:

6 freeps vs 6 visible creeps +4 wargs. The warg pack destroys a fat kid hunter in the back and runs away. The remaining 5 freeps roflstomp the 6 visible creeps and the wargs live. Freeps get 150-200 renown each from rolling the 6 creeps, visible creeps get none, and the wargs get 15 each for killing a single player. Instead of sticking around and wiping up all the freeps, the stealth classes are content to kill one at a time.

Effective? Yes, at killing freeps. At getting points? Not so much.

Yes it's an issue on every server but on smaller servers such as DD every single problem is magnified bc of the low pop.

So yes, everyone's free to play however they want. If you enjoy warg packing, go ahead. Just realize that if you tweak your playstyle a little bit you can probably get a ton more points for yourselves and the rest of the creeps as well.

Originally Posted by LOTROOO

I think what some people are saying is that warg packs, while effective in getting kills, are not effective in acquiring points for creepside. Here's what happens:

6 freeps vs 6 visible creeps +4 wargs. The warg pack destroys a fat kid hunter in the back and runs away. The remaining 5 freeps roflstomp the 6 visible creeps and the wargs live. Freeps get 150-200 renown each from rolling the 6 creeps, visible creeps get none, and the wargs get 15 each for killing a single player. Instead of sticking around and wiping up all the freeps, the stealth classes are content to kill one at a time.

Effective? Yes, at killing freeps. At getting points? Not so much.

Yes it's an issue on every server but on smaller servers such as DD every single problem is magnified bc of the low pop.

So yes, everyone's free to play however they want. If you enjoy warg packing, go ahead. Just realize that if you tweak your playstyle a little bit you can probably get a ton more points for yourselves and the rest of the creeps as well.

^this x10. Although, in your example, I'd like for us 6 visible creeps to get at least one kill.... >8D}{ I've been talking to some of the mega-ranked wargs on some of the bigger servers and they say warg packs (6-12 wargs) should be reserved for burg packs and for situations where you have a massive freep raid annihilating a few creeps. Sounds logical to me.

While I don't disagree with what your saying, please also keep in mind most of the new people are playing the game beacuse they think it's fun, not to mini/max their kbs or point in take. That is more of an advance play style you're just not going to get from a new player.

Let's also keep in mind that on DD most experienced players refuse to group with newer players, (so yes they are learning what works for them while soloing or grouping with other new players)

I know for a fact I had very few people willing to show me how to play a warg until I was r6, I believe the thought was so many people leave before that point it's not worth it, but unfortunately what you get is exactly what you have here, mass level of low rank people who are making the game work in the way that they can without the benefit of anyone showing them simple stuff like how and what corruptions are good for that class or how to effectively work solo or in a group to benefit everyone (if the person truely cares about anyone else and you'll have to make that point to me because I haven't seen a large number of people in DD who actually care about anything more than their own Infamy so why shouldn't the wargs do the same)

Also by the time people recach R6 they already have a play style that works for them, now they are supposed to change it to make classes who wouldn't help out before happy?

Personally if theres a way to play PVP that makes the whole PVP fail then there should be a change to fix that and that can't be saying on this server there are rules that X or Y shouldn't be done. LOTRO PVP has always had balanced issues since I've been on it usually in the Freeps favor. Obviously if one side refuses to play the whole thing collapses. I'm not sure thats a bad thing for LOTRO maybe they'd fix the underlying issues of balance.

Wompado

Originally Posted by bloodyanarch

While I don't disagree with what your saying, please also keep in mind most of the new people are playing the game beacuse they think it's fun, not to mini/max their kbs or point in take. That is more of an advance play style you're just not going to get from a new player.

Let's also keep in mind that on DD most experienced players refuse to group with newer players, (so yes they are learning what works for them while soloing or grouping with other new players)

I know for a fact I had very few people willing to show me how to play a warg until I was r6, I believe the thought was so many people leave before that point it's not worth it, but unfortunately what you get is exactly what you have here, mass level of low rank people who are making the game work in the way that they can without the benefit of anyone showing them simple stuff like how and what corruptions are good for that class or how to effectively work solo or in a group to benefit everyone (if the person truely cares about anyone else and you'll have to make that point to me because I haven't seen a large number of people in DD who actually care about anything more than their own Infamy so why shouldn't the wargs do the same)

Also by the time people recach R6 they already have a play style that works for them, now they are supposed to change it to make classes who wouldn't help out before happy?

Personally if theres a way to play PVP that makes the whole PVP fail then there should be a change to fix that and that can't be saying on this server there are rules that X or Y shouldn't be done. LOTRO PVP has always had balanced issues since I've been on it usually in the Freeps favor. Obviously if one side refuses to play the whole thing collapses. I'm not sure thats a bad thing for LOTRO maybe they'd fix the underlying issues of balance.

Wompado

You're awesome Wompado....

Originally Posted by Zoar

^this x10. Although, in your example, I'd like for us 6 visible creeps to get at least one kill.... >8D}{ I've been talking to some of the mega-ranked wargs on some of the bigger servers and they say warg packs (6-12 wargs) should be reserved for burg packs and for situations where you have a massive freep raid annihilating a few creeps. Sounds logical to me.

Another thing that stands out to me about the bigger servers is they have an uncanny ability to self regulate. Here, however, people are pretty much like how dare you high rank people tell me how to play i'll do whatever i want ainur sux anarchy class warfare garbage. So ya we have failed to do what great pvp servers have done effectively...

No need to make a long post restating what most people have already said, so I'll be brief.

Creeps need to start rolling more visibles. Best thing would be more BAs or WLs, but heck, even a Reaver would be helpful.


Just a few days ago I logged on Andrag and started duoing with Glora. It was crazy fun. Did I split a lot of infamy with him? Yes. But the entire time I felt completely invincible. After playing my warg for the past few weeks I'd forgotten how much fun my (f)reaver could be.

Silhouette is almost r6 so you'll probably see him out there for a few more days, but after I doubt I'll play him much more until the Warg epidemic on DD ceases.

TL;DR

Try and roll a class besides the Warg, but whatever you choose, have FUN. QQ will never improve PvP, but serves as an excellent tool for destroying it!

Originally Posted by bloodyanarch

ok so let me see if i have this straight

1) don't pounce my kills (unless i'm about to die then pounce and save me or your a noob)
2) don't pounce my kills (unless he's about to get away and you could have stunned or slowed him you noob)
3) don't group up, you kill freeps and they will log (also see pouncing my kills, those were my infamy anyways)
4) don't group up, wargs heals stack (that makes you harder to kill and isn't fair)
5) don't play a warg (they are ez mode, you should play a reaver they are really tough to win on)

I'm sure there's more and at some point they start to contradict each other... anyways I think I'll just try to get my kills any way I can and I'll ask for forgiveness from those who thought I unfairly poached on their infamy. In addition I will also try to continue to stun those freeps who are chasing you creeps down. ( I promise to save you too Iliketurtles and sorry if I missed you before). I understand if you don't heal me (Believe me I surprised when you do), I will still attempt to play my part in whatever battle is currently underway.

The other day I actually watched a warleader try and take on a Boss solo ( he was doing just fine) but I didn't attack cause I was like hmm should I help? is he trying to solo this?? It's crazy. Add in unwrtten rules of CM and who knows what else i'm not even aware of and it's insane.

Anyways all this thread and others like it are doing is letting me know that I gotta be me because there are people here who will never be happy with the way things are, it will always be something and QQing is easier than adapting.

Wompado, ganking and warg zerging with the worst of them.

LOL LOL LOL!!! Have you been saving quotes from OOC? I promise I have heard every one of them, 1-5, repeatedly....part of the reason I started this thread.

Wargs have to be the most verbally abused creeps in this game (some high-level creeps even think yelling "you fail noob warg, why don't you just quit the game?" is giving you a precious nugget of wisdom).

Knowing that you are taking "I gotta be me because there are people here who will never be happy with the way things are, it will always be something and QQing is easier than adapting" away from this thread makes me feel like I at least accomplished something.