Thread: Questions about game interface and animations...

I'm new to LOTR as of today. Known about it for years but never tried it. I've played nearly every other MMO/MMORPG ever made it seems, and yes even the small Korean LLC MMOs that have came out that non Americans don't seems to know about. That said I'm not new to MMOs but am a bit puzzled by the high ratings LOTR has, which is why I'm trying it out.

My first question is what's with the lack of character animations? Am I missing something? They move like the old Everquest toons from nearly two decades ago. Also I'm on a 10/mb down 5/mb up connection and have two GTI 460s in SLI configuration and my character keeps "rubber-banding" all over the place, and this is in the level 1 starter area. So I assume the game is still buggy even after all these years or the server is an old Radio Shack Tandy on Dial-up? Is this game dead and everyone is beating the poor dead horse that once pulled it? Or are there settings I've not found to get better performance? All my graphic settings are at max and even lowering them down doesnt stop the weird rubber banding. The game looks on par with others mostly except the characters just freak me out because they seem lifeless and move like robots. My attacks when having the auto approach setting on makes my toon run past the mob and he is attacking facing away from it and I have to constantly mash a button before it fires off that certain attack. Not always but most of the time.

So is the game dead or am I missing something?

- W

EDIT: Ok I made a Human, they seem to work much better and have more animation to them. =)

the last couple of updates have created an amazing amount of lag. Server side lag, so your personal T1 does not matter, it is no better than a 9600 baud modem if the server side is hosed up. This is what causes the rubber banding.


The character animations are what they are. Most NPCS stay in place and say the same things over and over and do the same things over and over. They have no AI, just a looped script. AI is almost never used in any real games because scripted behavior is easier to handle. Even the AI of many games, like skyrim, are still just more complex scripts (the toons do things like sleep from midnight to 7 am, eat food at 8, 12, and 6, work a job in the daytime and hit the pub at night, if you want to call *that* AI --- and it makes finding someone a chore at times, realistic but annoying too). It has been a while since I saw a game learn or adapt in a significant way.

The game is not dead, though it may be on the decline. New content is release and it is on par with older content. Bugs exist and are fixed, and then more bugs added.. in general the bugs outnumber the fixes but most are minor. And the developers have serious spelling and grammar problems at times. I do too, but I am not paid to know how to write

Anyway, the bulk of what you are dealing with is just lag (rubber bands and skill fail to fire issues). That should clear up, eventually. Turbine has been pretty good about fixing their slow code, but the game and engine in general has very poor performance and the words profile, assembly, and performance are not in the developer's vocabulary as far as I can tell. It is unlikely that the NPC AI or animations or behaviors will change drastically in the lifetime of this game.

I've had very few problems running LotRO on a variety of PCs, some of which were pretty old. Generally speaking I have found performance to be optimum one graphic setting lower than that recommended should you have the software suggest a graphic setting. Recently there have been reports of lag in the game worlds but I can't say I have personally experienced it lately.

That said, I have found the LotRO graphics to be very nice and a cut above other titles released around the same time (and even equal to titles released within the last two years).

Some of the animations can seem a little stiff for some players. As you noted in your edit, each race has some animation peculiarities and some feel humans offer the best model.

The game population is going to vary widely depending on where you are in the game world, where you are in the real world (i.e. are you living in Europe and on a NA server or vice versa), time of day and other variables. Since this is a 'mature' game (released in 2007) many players are playing in the higher level areas, but there always seem to be a few new players or old players creating alts in the new player zones.

The real test is how much fun is the game for you and do you find the game play enjoyable? Turbine has done a terrific job re-creating Middle-earth for those of us that love the writings of JRR Tolkien. This game actually has a story behind it and the lore and quest arcs provide an excellent back story that most players really enjoy.

I hope you can get past your disappointment in the graphics and animation and can enjoy the game play in Middle-earth.

I'm sorry your experience so far is not the best, but welcome to Middle Earth anyway!

In general, it helps to tune your settings. Some folks are seeing a helpful difference with moving to DX9 instead of 10 or 11, so that might help you. There is an ongoing issue with stuttering and hitching since the last major update in March, and Turbine is still working on a fix.

There is a skill queue icon you can add to your UI, which will show you which skill is queued up next. Lag might prevent a skill from queuing but you might just be overwriting the skill in the queue. The icon can help you see what's happening with it.

In general, LOTRO is a well-established and popular game with a more mature player base and new players arrive everyday. I hope you enjoy your time here.

Thanks for the help. I am using DirectX 9c and have been goofin' with settings for the last 2 hours and the rubber banding still persist. I'm generally all for a good time and experience so I can overlook a lot, but this bouncing around and rubber-banding is too annoying to look past. I just can't do it. I wish I could but I'm so over celebrating mediocracy. I think we as gamers should start demanding more and careless rather a game is F2P or P2P or whatever silly mechanics a company comes up with to get our money. The end result is we eventually have to pay for our gaming or these companies would not be able to survive. So anyways I think we should demand more than rehased games based on a two decade old game mechanic. Perhaps if I was more into the LotR lore but again I was over the whole midevil story stuff about the time I learned there was no Easter Bunny and Santa. So think I'll keep my money and use it to enjoy some concerts and summer activities with it rather than give it to companies who dont deserve it. Pushing 40 and just too tired to go through the same damn stuff over and over and over again no matter how they color it. Know what I mean

Here's to the future of MMORPGs! Hopefully we get some new heros with balls and intelligence to come up with something new this decade! - Cheers!

- W

Originally Posted by Woofdang

Thanks for the help. I am using DirectX 9c and have been goofin' with settings for the last 2 hours and the rubber banding still persist. I'm generally all for a good time and experience so I can overlook a lot, but this bouncing around and rubber-banding is too annoying to look past. I just can't do it. I wish I could but I'm so over celebrating mediocracy.

No need to fumble around the problem is very likely on Turbine's side only.
It is also likely inside the client and not the server but in the end it causes hitching for us players.
This was only introduced with the latest big update before it was all fine.
(I said likely as not all problem can be addressed to Turbine - however a LOT of players have problems since Update 6).

Also this game defines itself a bit differently with respect to mediocracy. While you seem to put the emphasis on graphics (by having something run not smooth even though you have an SLI system even though the problem is NOT the graphic engine) most players here put the emphasis on the story line and the lore behind it. That part is FAR from being mediocre.

I however understand that for some people the technical aspect of a game is more important than the content - at least to a certain extent.

Maybe you will give it another chance once the problems are fixed and will like the story.

As I said before, the rubber-banding is due to a recent content update (added a new area and stuff to do) that somehow created extra server side lag. It is not fixable on your side unless you can tweak you internet connection or reroute the path to the server or something.

What happens is your PC and the server talk pretty much constantly. Turbine, in their infinite wisdom, decided that "the server is always right" in regards to your position in the world. So you move around locally on your PC and send updates to the server, but the server is swamped and lagged and does not process them in time. At some point the server and the local PC sync up, and the server says "you are here" and the PC client moves you back to where you were --- creating the evil rubber band effect. The only fix is for the server to process your positional changes faster so when they sync up, your PC agrees with the server and you do not move in space.

I have played the game for over 5 years. There have been 3 really bad, couple of months long ordeals with the rubber band problem. It has always been fixed. This is the third case of it. The first one was when the game was very, very newly released. Another was after a major expansion. This one has no real excuse, but it is what it is.

No mature online game has had a trouble free record. I can remember lag in WOW so bad that the servers either crashed or were rebooted. Stuff happens.

Originally Posted by forusrname

As I said before, the rubber-banding is due to a recent content update (added a new area and stuff to do) that somehow created extra server side lag. It is not fixable on your side unless you can tweak you internet connection or reroute the path to the server or something.

Please post a link to a statement from Turbine that supports this.
You talk about server side lag and then talk about fixing your internet connection.

Turbine's inspection of the servers did not show any server side issues but there could be communication issues between the server and the client caused by the client.
So I think that there is a problem with some changes inside the client that causes the problems. Not sure if Turbine already found the problem and are testing additional patches like the one they hoped would fix it (but did not apparently).

Generally if something changes because of an update then I would not really suggest that the problem is on the user side and try to find solutions on the user side. It is mostly not very helpful (besides the bit in gain of performance by having it all clean) but you will not be able to circumvent a problem that got introduced by different code running now compared to before as you cannot change that code.

Originally Posted by monk_tbd

Please post a link to a statement from Turbine that supports this.
You talk about server side lag and then talk about fixing your internet connection.

Turbine's inspection of the servers did not show any server side issues but there could be communication issues between the server and the client caused by the client.
So I think that there is a problem with some changes inside the client that causes the problems. Not sure if Turbine already found the problem and are testing additional patches like the one they hoped would fix it (but did not apparently).

Generally if something changes because of an update then I would not really suggest that the problem is on the user side and try to find solutions on the user side. It is mostly not very helpful (besides the bit in gain of performance by having it all clean) but you will not be able to circumvent a problem that got introduced by different code running now compared to before as you cannot change that code.

Turbine is not terribly open about bugs and issues.

Try this instead. Pull out your internet cable. Walk around (you can go a short distance for a while). After a bit it will figure it out and the game will close. Reload. The server will put you back where you were when you pulled the cable, no matter how far you walked before you hit a red wall. Its the same thing that happens with lag.

Also try playing at off hours, when the server is less busy. There is no rubber banding. If the problem were a local PC problem, it would persist at all times. However, at least for me, the current bit of lag is all during the peak hours (6pm - 2am eastern). If I log in at 5am eastern, it is pretty darn smooth. My PC is exactly the same at 5 am as it is at 6 pm. The server, however, has multiple times the workload from what I can see of who is online.

I have nothing to back it up, but ALL the empirical evidence points to a server side problem. On top of this, there are however many hundreds of skilled gamers who have monkeyed with settings in an attempt to clear up the lag --- with little to no success this time. It can help (esp if you reduce the distance you can see other players at, which also implies a server side issue...) but there is no known way to clear up the lag right now that anyone has posted that works on a vast majority of PCs.

It is not trivial to re-route your connection to the server --- I swapped ISPs to use my the one where I work to see if it changed anything. It did not, for me, but the trace route was somewhat different past my city and out into the world. Fewer hops from work, but that made no real difference for the lag issues.

The main point is that the current crop of lag is not caused by graphics settings, or audio, or much of anything under the user's control. It could be on the client somehow, but all the evidence says otherwise. If it were the client, off hour playtime would still be laggy, and it is not. If it were the client, instead of rubber-bands you would likely freeze in place --- and we have seen that glitch a time or 3. It could be, of course, but that makes no sense to match the symptoms.

Originally Posted by Woofdang

I wish I could but I'm so over celebrating mediocracy.

This is not a mediocre game. From your first post it really seems like you came here expecting mediocrity and then you manage to find it as a self-fulfilling prophecy.

As for rubber banding it can be caused by many reasons; sometimes server, sometimes local, sometimes something in the middle. Make sure you have enough memory, that your hard drive is defragged, etc. There are many players who experience very little rubber banding even though they don't have typical gamerz systems.

Also note that the anniversary event is going on and there's a much larger number of players online than normal, and a very large number of them are close to each other and thus increasing the amount of data that must be passed around between the server's computers and the clients.

If you really have played "just about every MMO" then you will have seen this sort of stuff in a lot of them. This is not a careless game; it is extremely good value for the cost even if you subscribe.]

[quote]Perhaps if I was more into the LotR lore but again I was over the whole midevil story stuff ...]
There is nothing medieval about Lord of the Rings. Or do you call anything that's vaguely old and looks European medieval?

If you do not like a game then just move on. Sticking around to bad mouth it is just bad form.

Originally Posted by forusrname

If the problem were a local PC problem, it would persist at all times.

There is quite a big difference between a local PC problem and a problem in the LOTRO client code.
I do not think it is a local PC problem.
I also do not think it is an isolated problem by the client although it could be.

Remember the problem about broadcasting messages popping up repeatedly when entering a zone? It seems that each time someone in the vicinity entered the area you also got the broadcast message.
This could be a problem in the server of broadcasting that to you or a problem in the client showing you that broadcast.
No we also get lots of messages from other clients - like someone entering our vicinity - and this makes the client hitch for some reason. The server does not necessarily need to be lagging for that to happen.

I also notice a much larger memeory consumption since U6. I need to properly verify this as I switched from DX9 to DX11 around the same time but I used to be perfectly able to play with my 4GB 64bit OS machine running the 32 bit LTRO client plus a virtualbox with linux on it at the same time. Now I run out of physical memory and LOTRO starts paging to disk.
When shutting down the virtualbox LOTRO goes sometimes into saturation of available memory for a 32 bit process of 2GB but that does not necessarily mean that it is problematic. It could though.

The main point is that the current crop of lag is not caused by graphics settings, or audio, or much of anything under the user's control. It could be on the client somehow, but all the evidence says otherwise. If it were the client, off hour playtime would still be laggy, and it is not. If it were the client, instead of rubber-bands you would likely freeze in place --- and we have seen that glitch a time or 3. It could be, of course, but that makes no sense to match the symptoms.

I agree it has nothing to do with user settings. But I also do not think that fumbling with network connection, reinstalling LOTRO or even Windows makes any sense either.
Let Turbine figure out what the problem is and then react accordingly.
In the meantime we have to put up with the "lag" as best as we can.

I bet it is mainly tied to your equipment and internet connection. I been on for 4 years and have not had any major issues. Some bugs yes but no lag that ties to the game. I have direct x11 with a powerful computer and good internet connection.

Originally Posted by MASTERRUNT

I bet it is mainly tied to your equipment and internet connection. I been on for 4 years and have not had any major issues. Some bugs yes but no lag that ties to the game. I have direct x11 with a powerful computer and good internet connection.

this thread is quite a good source that something happened during U6.

I am not saying it is not tied to equipment and internet connection either. It could be. It is likely a combination of a lot of things.

However it was fine before U6 and it is not as good after U6. Everything points to U6 introducing something that causes these problems for a lot of players. It definitely is a complex problem and finding the actual problem might be difficult because it is hard to give some exact scenarios for Turbine to test with. And the amount of variables involved is immense.
And there are people with very powerful systems and good internet connections (whatever that really is as it is hard to quantify absolutely in every scenario) who have these problems as well. Just be lucky to not have them or to not have experienced them yet.

Originally Posted by Lohi

If you do not like a game then just move on. Sticking around to bad mouth it is just bad form.

If you read his second post, it sounds like it is his final review of the game before moving on to something else.

Hope he at least uninstalled Pando Media Booster - it's not responsible for the game lag, but it's downright evil and kills your bandwidth. Very much not recommended for anyone with a bandwidth cap, or anyone who does not want to constantly torrent LoTRO to other people.