Thread: Solidarity PvP set bug

Hey guys and Orion!

Not sure if many other people are using this pvp set, but just completed mine today and while the knockdowns work fine (only 3 second duration which is slightly irksome) the kd itself doesn't allow us to use Critical Strike during the stun.

I'm assuming this is a bug and not WAI.

Please also consider fixing the 25% bleed damage bonuses on other sets, we work very hard for our armour sets and to have them not functioning as advertised is painful!

Cheers
Bels

Originally Posted by Bels_illuminati

Please also consider fixing the 25% bleed damage bonuses on other sets, we work very hard for our armour sets and to have them not functioning as advertised is painful!

Cheers
Bels

That would be nice, wouldn't it? Also looking forward to a battle memory fix for sp-sh.

Originally Posted by Bels_illuminati

Hey guys and Orion!

Not sure if many other people are using this pvp set, but just completed mine today and while the knockdowns work fine (only 3 second duration which is slightly irksome) the kd itself doesn't allow us to use Critical Strike during the stun.

I'm assuming this is a bug and not WAI.

Please also consider fixing the 25% bleed damage bonuses on other sets, we work very hard for our armour sets and to have them not functioning as advertised is painful!

Cheers
Bels

im working up to 3/3 Shield / Spear of the moors armour as it seems a nice DPS setup if the 3-piece bonus does get fixed on Spear.

I did wonder about KD length with 5 Shield though. Is 3s KD the original length or is that against someone with high Audacity? Otherwise is it only like 1s against a maxed creep? has anyone had a chance to look into this?

Originally Posted by Ravenstride

im working up to 3/3 Shield / Spear of the moors armour as it seems a nice DPS setup if the 3-piece bonus does get fixed on Spear.

I did wonder about KD length with 5 Shield though. Is 3s KD the original length or is that against someone with high Audacity? Otherwise is it only like 1s against a maxed creep? has anyone had a chance to look into this?

KD is unaffected by audacity so in theory the duration should always be 3 seconds, I will do more exact testing but I believe this to be true from my limited use of it so far.

One thing I will say, my dps with 3 of this set and 3 Porbad is higher than any other combination I've managed so far. As snippets and examples I'm new devastating over 3k on training dummies totally unbuffed with each DbtD strike. Over 2.2k with each onslaught attack in assailment too. In recklessness my unerring strike is getting close to 3k now top end damage.

Basically on landscape I'm seeing over 6k total damage from DbtD and nearly 7k on onslaught. This again is totally unbuffed, not even food or hope. Whoever thinks wardens lost upfront dps during last patch (I was one of them) if you gear (I have 24k PM in this build) correctly our damage is insane!

Anyway just a snippet for those looking at 3 pieces of solidarity, I would say do it because it's better for pve dps and obviously pvp too.

ahh good to know KD is not affected. I am sure you've seen the tread about Boar's Rush stun in Recklessness also suffering from this. I'd imagine that KD is not scripted to unlock CS at the moment regardless of its source.

Definitely doesn't sound to be WAI to me. Ambush does a KD as well afaik but that is probably programmed to unlock CS on hit rather than examine the target's state.

Out of curiosity what made you go 3 Porbad and not 3 Spear Lord?

I have to say I love rocking Assailment stance in the moors. I run around 5y/2r and spend most of the time in Assailment however I thought (hoped) that the 3-piece Spear Lord bonus would also affect Sp-Fi bleeds from ranged and therefore be more useful than EoB power costs.

what's your thoughts?

Originally Posted by Ravenstride

ahh good to know KD is not affected. I am sure you've seen the tread about Boar's Rush stun in Recklessness also suffering from this. I'd imagine that KD is not scripted to unlock CS at the moment regardless of its source.

Definitely doesn't sound to be WAI to me. Ambush does a KD as well afaik but that is probably programmed to unlock CS on hit rather than examine the target's state.

Out of curiosity what made you go 3 Porbad and not 3 Spear Lord?

I have to say I love rocking Assailment stance in the moors. I run around 5y/2r and spend most of the time in Assailment however I thought (hoped) that the 3-piece Spear Lord bonus would also affect Sp-Fi bleeds from ranged and therefore be more useful than EoB power costs.

what's your thoughts?

Wrote a nice reply and forums are down for maintenance, so hateful.

Basically: Crit Strike does work on combat states (dazes and other Warden knockdowns) so I think 3 second knockdowns just need to be added to the list.

I rock 3 Porbad/3 Solidarity because the bleed set bonuses are broken (defo bust on Aithlen not taking the risk on Spearlords!). Also 20% SpSh gambit damage will render higher dps in anything other than really long boss fights, and even then I would need to run the numbers.

Finally I recommended trying assailment in 5r2y traits. You lose some ranged crit and fist gambit buffs, but fist gambits aren't used overly much in assailment anyway, and you gain back some of the lost crit with red traits for spear gambits. I think red gives you more bang for your buck overall.

(In fact I think yellow traits need reworking, too many buffs to fist gambits and DoTs and not enough focus on ranged gambit buffs).

Originally Posted by Bels_illuminati

Finally I recommended trying assailment in 5r2y traits. You lose some ranged crit and fist gambit buffs, but fist gambits aren't used overly much in assailment anyway, and you gain back some of the lost crit with red traits for spear gambits. I think red gives you more bang for your buck overall.

(In fact I think yellow traits need reworking, too many buffs to fist gambits and DoTs and not enough focus on ranged gambit buffs).

I second that. Often I run as melee/ranged dps hybrid traited 5r 2y. Yellow line still lacks of purpose, another that goofying around with Desolation. There are few nuggets here, but lot of Orion's & company work is wasted.

5r/2y build is very good and allows some flexibility with stances. I like the yellow heavy build because I specifically build for Fist / Light gambits so I want to max its potential. I rely a lot on Desolation as I charge solo into groups of Creep. In anything but Yellow capstone Desolation is useless.

See i'm the guy that makes things happen out there. While freep and creep will face each other off at range for a long time i'll get on the scene and charge into the creep. At this point the following happens:

1) Creep get excited in anticipation of infamy
2) Freep will hang back thinking i'm just going to die
3) I hit DC and build up EoB, Desolation and Resolutions on creeps (hence Yellow build) in Determination.
4) Creep get annoyed that I am still alive
5) Freep realize that Creep are busy with me and I am not dead yet (this is about 30s after my charge)
6) Cowards finally charge in and zerg Creep.
7) I get lots of well earned renown

After a couple of times of this most creeps (i'm talking groups of solos no R vs R situations) will start hanging back more and hugging keeps / NPCs. Thats when i switch to Assailment and ranged EoBs / Resolutions. My 3 Solidarity pieces and Might jewellery still gives me great single target dps both in Recklessness and Assailment. Im just not sure if I should go for 3 Spear Lord's in the hope they fix the bonus or should I just get 3 Porbad for some power savings on my favourite ranged skills. I can't justify that though as ranged DbtD obsoletes anything else.

For Raid vs Raid I also love Desolation for messing up with War Learder, BAs and Defilers. Again Yellow capstone kinda required.

For solo 1v1 1v2 it doesnt really matter tbh.

5y/2r just fits my playstyle and I find that I am earning a helluvalot more renown with ranged + tactical attacks than I did running around in recklessness and red traits.

Originally Posted by Ravenstride

5r/2y build is very good and allows some flexibility with stances. I like the yellow heavy build because I specifically build for Fist / Light gambits so I want to max its potential. I rely a lot on Desolation as I charge solo into groups of Creep. In anything but Yellow capstone Desolation is useless.

See i'm the guy that makes things happen out there. While freep and creep will face each other off at range for a long time i'll get on the scene and charge into the creep. At this point the following happens:

1) Creep get excited in anticipation of infamy
2) Freep will hang back thinking i'm just going to die
3) I hit DC and build up EoB, Desolation and Resolutions on creeps (hence Yellow build) in Determination.
4) Creep get annoyed that I am still alive
5) Freep realize that Creep are busy with me and I am not dead yet (this is about 30s after my charge)
6) Cowards finally charge in and zerg Creep.
7) I get lots of well earned renown

After a couple of times of this most creeps (i'm talking groups of solos no R vs R situations) will start hanging back more and hugging keeps / NPCs. Thats when i switch to Assailment and ranged EoBs / Resolutions. My 3 Solidarity pieces and Might jewellery still gives me great single target dps both in Recklessness and Assailment. Im just not sure if I should go for 3 Spear Lord's in the hope they fix the bonus or should I just get 3 Porbad for some power savings on my favourite ranged skills. I can't justify that though as ranged DbtD obsoletes anything else.

For Raid vs Raid I also love Desolation for messing up with War Learder, BAs and Defilers. Again Yellow capstone kinda required.

For solo 1v1 1v2 it doesnt really matter tbh.

5y/2r just fits my playstyle and I find that I am earning a helluvalot more renown with ranged + tactical attacks than I did running around in recklessness and red traits.

This pretty much defines how I believe the 'new' warden should be played in the moors.

Our job in skirmish stand offs is to charge in and tank the creeps, leeching and aoeing as much as possible so that when the cowardly freeps finally wake up we get decent renown for our efforts no matter which creeps die. Another great benefit is that Wargs will struggle to jump you from stealth with all that aoe leeching going on.

The reason I would highly recommend traiting 5r2y however is because of the functionality it brings. When in yellow traits you're losing a lot of the benefits once you're involved in a melee scrap (against a creep or a tyrant). I find 90% of the fights I am involved in especially on the smaller scale (warg gank squads, one on one PvE jumps etc) inevitably come down to melee bleed stacking and movement.

There is something to be said for 6 target desolation with more frequent fears, however even in red traits you end up with a long duration, 3 targets and a decent fear rate, which makes the skill still incredibly handy. I'm not sure I would give up all my red trait benefits for a buff to one skill that still functions pretty well.

My favourite activity at the moment is seeking out warg gank groups and tanking them. Basically in 30 seconds of god mode 3 things happen. The warg we have targetted takes enough damage to basically die and ends up hipsing. The other dogs take enough damage to get them to at least 50% morale unless they are higher rank and in flayer. And thirdly we have had time to stack our ticking self heals enough so that we aren't squishy once the 30 seconds is over. (As proof of this I have parsed 2.4k in FG kitchens etc, with a peak of nearly 3k damage (on level I have parsed 2.3k when pulling an entire Gold token instance in Great River), simply by stacking EoB and FR and spamming Resolution and JoDF when possible = we actually do huge aoe damage now).

The net result in the majority of these fights is panicking dogs, with many mid and low ranks hipsing around the 30 second mark (foolish as that's when we can be killed). The higher ranks see their fellows hipsing and normally follow suit, and if one or two stay then they can't beat us by this time. Usually with gank squads one or two dogs have escape skills on cd, so I often end up chasing a couple and getting a couple of kills for my trouble (while chuckling insanely to myself).

Anyway back to the desolation point, I usually hit it from potency twice in two directions if there are 5 or more doggies. This will normally apply the DoT to each, and almost always you will see at least 2 dogs (or any creeps ofc) feared each tick. This reduces incoming damage enormously and frankly again makes them panic.

I will always trait 5r because of parses however. And often go 5r1y1b if I know I'll be doing a lot of 1v1 stuff (the two tick on heals traits is invaluable against good flayer wargs and kiting BAs). I can parse 1.3k solo in 5r, whereas 5y ends up with my parse being much, much lower, usually struggling to break 1k.

As for raid v raid you re right and 5y gains a bit more merit. However I still like my red traits as I can genuinely help to nuke targets down and can still interrupt spam healers no problem.

Ultimately Wardens are enormous fun in the moors right now.

Originally Posted by Bels_illuminati

Ultimately Wardens are enormous fun in the moors right now.

QFT.

Ill give 5r another shot tonight and see how it 'feels'

Originally Posted by Ravenstride

QFT.

Ill give 5r another shot tonight and see how it 'feels'

Was gonna do the same with 5y

I've never really got the iff of Yellow line tbh. I ran with it all through bullroarer, and I must say, being primarily a melee class I was not all that impressed with it. I've found it only useful against large creep groups, even then it's kinda eck to trait. I prefer to keep my distance from zergs as much as I can anyway.

Also, was not aware the 3-set of red set was still bugged?

Belegardo scored a devastating hit with Ranged The Dark Before Dawn on the Khundolar Archer for 3,496 Beleriand damage to Morale.

Just wanted to share this with the group, totally unbuffed. I think we're looking at top end DbtD damage of 10k in raid settings and double devastate ^^

Spot the tank.

Originally Posted by Bels_illuminati

Hey guys and Orion!

Not sure if many other people are using this pvp set, but just completed mine today and while the knockdowns work fine (only 3 second duration which is slightly irksome) the kd itself doesn't allow us to use Critical Strike during the stun.

Are you supposed to be able to use critical strike, then? I'm not sure. Critical Strike says something along the lines of you being "able to use it after an ambush or another daze". A knockdown is not a daze. Ambush doesn't cause a knockdown - it's a "knockout", IIRC.

Originally Posted by -Aelg-

Are you supposed to be able to use critical strike, then? I'm not sure. Critical Strike says something along the lines of you being "able to use it after an ambush or another daze". A knockdown is not a daze. Ambush doesn't cause a knockdown - it's a "knockout", IIRC.

That's a good point actually.

Is there a specific difference between KD and KO in game? It certaintly acts the same way when using this set.


Anyway pweeeeeeddy please Orion can I have Crit Strike after the set KDs? Pweeedy please! Lub you forever <3

Originally Posted by Bels_illuminati

That's a good point actually.

Is there a specific difference between KD and KO in game? It certaintly acts the same way when using this set.


Anyway pweeeeeeddy please Orion can I have Crit Strike after the set KDs? Pweeedy please! Lub you forever <3

From Orion's blog:

Boar’s Rush
Main-hand damage;
Chance to daze
DoT – If Combination Strike DoT is present adds more damage with a successful attack
Chance to Knockdown and Refresh Critical Strike

Last line = in reck stance. I presume: refresh = ability to use & CD refresh. If it means only CD refresh... it's pretty lame :P.
And as we all know blog != final changes.

Originally Posted by Bels_illuminati

Basically on landscape I'm seeing over 6k total damage from DbtD and nearly 7k on onslaught. This again is totally unbuffed, not even food or hope. Whoever thinks wardens lost upfront dps during last patch (I was one of them) if you gear (I have 24k PM in this build) correctly our damage is insane!

You're averaging over 2k per hit on Onslaught and 3k on DBTD? I'm having some trouble believing this, got a Combat Analysis screenshot you can share? My full DPS build is about 22k and I don't get anywhere near these numbers. Also I can't search for you (I assume because you're on a EU server) is there a way you could link your character page? How much morale/power do you have?

Originally Posted by thunderchickn

You're averaging over 2k per hit on Onslaught and 3k on DBTD? I'm having some trouble believing this, got a Combat Analysis screenshot you can share? My full DPS build is about 22k and I don't get anywhere near these numbers. Also I can't search for you (I assume because you're on a EU server) is there a way you could link your character page? How much morale/power do you have?

Not average but when I get a double crit/devastate these are the achievable figures. Onsluaght devs around 2.3k per strike and DbtD around 3.5k.
I'm not in game right now but will try and get some screen grabs later of dps build and some figures.

Another key point is that it's on landscape, not against creeps. Although I did do 3k x2 on a new Defiler yesterday
Decent creeps with audacity reduce my DbtD devs to about 2k per strike.

Originally Posted by Bels_illuminati

Not average but when I get a double crit/devastate these are the achievable figures. Onsluaght devs around 2.3k per strike and DbtD around 3.5k.
I'm not in game right now but will try and get some screen grabs later of dps build and some figures.

Another key point is that it's on landscape, not against creeps. Although I did do 3k x2 on a new Defiler yesterday
Decent creeps with audacity reduce my DbtD devs to about 2k per strike.

This is in Assailment with a 1A Javelin? I don't see how these numbers are even remotely possible in Reck, but Assailment does have bigger numbers. Quite impressive, but I would like to see the build and some screenies when you're able.

Originally Posted by thunderchickn

This is in Assailment with a 1A Javelin? I don't see how these numbers are even remotely possible in Reck, but Assailment does have bigger numbers. Quite impressive, but I would like to see the build and some screenies when you're able.

Yep in Assailment but with 2nd age only (I pass for dps in raids and can't win a normal lottery never mind finding one in a lootbox etc).
Key factors are the 3 set Porbad bonus (10% crit dmg in assailment), 3 set Solidarity (20% SpSh damage) and 2 x 7.5% devastate relics on weapons.

Anyway this is my current pure DPS build, with the clicky active I think PM gets up to around 27k or so, which offers 110%ish.
It's a screen grab I made for a kinny and has WoS damage in the parser (this is without the clicky active). If I get a chance later I'll make some fresh shots with more damage numbers.



EDIT:

Just realised this damage was taken with 5r1y1b pvp traits, so add another 5% from 2 yellow traits

Cool thanks for the info. Looks like a pretty squishy build, but would work well in PvE for sure. I had forgotten about the dev mag relics, those boost it by 15% alone.

As an aside, I am going for the Vigilance set for PvP just because it completely changes how we play out there. Sure 20% damage on a couple skills would be nice, but you can make up damage anywhere but there's no way you can replace a spammable 10 target AOE slow. However your information has made me think I might grab some of the Solidarity pieces after I finish the Vigilance set to try this out.

Came across this oldish thread so was wondering...

Raven / Bels, are you still 5y / 5r in ettens or something changed?

Thunder (or anyone else), did you get 5 vigil set? Does it work?
Currently have 3 pieces so was wondering is it worth going for more or get 3 pieces from some other set?

Thanks all!

Critical strike is after ambush, maybe some daze, not after a knock down.

Originally Posted by Gandalphor

Critical strike is after ambush, maybe some daze, not after a knock down.

Ambush isn't a knockdown?

I miss crit strike after boars rush.

Only Ambush KD unlocks CS. Only dazes can unlock it.