It's not "trivial" to me Almagnus. I've compared them, and the amount of damage I lose when I use a 1-hander vs a 2-hander is a big deal. Your critical hits just land a lot harder with a 2-hander, and considering most HoH Captains tend to be crit-heavy - it's a pretty significant decrease damage-wise.
But I may give a 1-hander a whirl again sometime, just to see. But I can tell you last time I used one I was not pleased with the results. At all lol But it's been a while and who knows, maybe things have changed since then, so for the sake of this thread I may just try one out again for fun. And I'll report back on the results.
What you feel and think can be vastly different from what's going on. There have been many psychological studies on that exact same point - and that's the only reason why I'm suggesting parsing for your comparisons.
What you feel and think can be vastly different from what's going on. There have been many psychological studies on that exact same point - and that's the only reason why I'm suggesting parsing for your comparisons.
A friend in my kinship has one of those, so I'll have him give me the numbers when I get around to trying it.
All I've gotten from this facile back-and-forth is that attempting to make the most of your weaknesses is futile and if it's not capable of 100% output, it shouldn't be used.
And so I submit that Loremaster, Burglar, Warden, and Captain should be scrapped from the game and reintroduced as Runekeeper 2, Hunter 2, Guardian 2, and Champion 2, with the exact same skills and traits, of course with the oh-so-significant "2" included to differentiate.
Then we can scrap all of the cool story, ditch the epic quests, bring in the pandas, and rename it World of Warcraft.
All I've gotten from this facile back-and-forth is that attempting to make the most of your weaknesses is futile and if it's not capable of 100% output, it shouldn't be used.
And so I submit that Loremaster, Burglar, Warden, and Captain should be scrapped from the game and reintroduced as Runekeeper 2, Hunter 2, Guardian 2, and Champion 2, with the exact same skills and traits, of course with the oh-so-significant "2" included to differentiate.
Then we can scrap all of the cool story, ditch the epic quests, bring in the pandas, and rename it World of Warcraft.
lol Skjaldur.
I too see some very disturbing WoW mentalities creeping into this game... not to mention there is now even a "parcer" (God help us) - and it's already starting to bring in the negative steriotypes and exagerations that ususally come with it.
Hopefully it's a not a trend that's here to stay, and I don't want to see hobbits replaced with pandas.
And if this game turns into the epeen contest that is WoW where everyone is competing and boasting about their "numbers" or trashing other players because of their low "numbers" it is going to leave a very bad taste in my mouth. I was hoping to get away from that kind of atmosphere when I left WoW.
I too see some very disturbing WoW mentalities creeping into this game... not to mention there is now even a "parcer" (God help us) - and it's already starting to bring in the negative steriotypes and exagerations that ususally come with it.
There's been a log parser in this game for several years now.
There's been a log parser in this game for several years now.
It's nothing new.
It seems new. If it's not, then perhaps it's just becoming more prevalent. In any case, it's a trend I don't care for much.
I wish people could just relax and enjoy the game and have fun, not obsess over "numbers". I got enough of that on WoW - and if I start seeing people asking for a certain "dps number" in chat instead of an actual player I think I'm going to build a time machine, go back in the past, and blow up Blizzard headquarters.
It seems new. If it's not, then perhaps it's just becoming more prevalent.
You do realize that these parsers you keep fighting are responsible for at least two major shifts in what's "acceptable" for a captain from the raid leaders:
The shift from MoM HoH Healbot to the proto-FB LoM because the healing was demonstrated to be about the same (thanks to a 6 second RC), and the proto-FB LoM helped raid DPS
Again with Blade Brother, the non-capstone builds, and LtC, because healing was demonstrated to be about the same, but DPS was also demonstrated to be significantly increased (in several cases, at least double from the LoM or HoH builds, if not more)
That the parsers have actually helped this class more than they have hurt it - and I'm certain there are other classes where that holds true, also.
This is a change that's best to roll with it, cause regardless how much we fight, parsers aren't going away - we lost that fight when Turbine opened up the Lua API to the combat logs.
You do realize that these parsers you keep fighting are responsible for at least two major shifts in what's "acceptable" for a captain from the raid leaders:
The shift from MoM HoH Healbot to the proto-FB LoM because the healing was demonstrated to be about the same (thanks to a 6 second RC), and the proto-FB LoM helped raid DPS
Again with Blade Brother, the non-capstone builds, and LtC, because healing was demonstrated to be about the same, but DPS was also demonstrated to be significantly increased (in several cases, at least double from the LoM or HoH builds, if not more)
That the parsers have actually helped this class more than they have hurt it - and I'm certain there are other classes where that holds true, also.
This is a change that's best to roll with it, cause regardless how much we fight, parsers aren't going away - we lost that fight when Turbine opened up the Lua API to the combat logs.
Well we are going to disagree here. I do raids just fine without any "parsers".
In my opinion all they do is breed elitism and create an obnoxious gaming community. I saw what it did to WoW, and I don't wanna see it happen on LOTRO.
IMHO good players don't need "parsers" to tell them rather or not they are good.
However, parses do help to make persuasive arguments.
But when I play a game I don't want to argue. I just want to play the game - and not have to listen to some 12 year old on the mic bloviating about how awesome his "numbers" are or how bad someone else's is. It's just obnoxious, and w/e it value it brings to the game is far out-weighed in my opinion by the negatives.
And if I want to win an argument I"ll just prove them wrong by doing what they are telling me I can't do. That's the best way to win an argument. Posting a bunch of numbers may win arguments with some people, but it woudnt purusade me of anything.
Numbers can lead to good things. You just gotta be smart with them. Statements like "Captain spec A under B conditions can perform C based on D" are good. Going from there to "Captain spec A is best for doing C" can be bad. Context is crucial with data. As are assumptions. And sure, 12 year olds usually misuse data. Lol at one Brandywiner deriding my unbuffed warden's LL parses based on his raid/training dummy ones.
My take is to make my 1 hander my buff stick and put defensive strike legacy on it as well. Put a few decent tanking relics on it and then you can go sword and board for occasional kiting / tanking situations.
My take is to make my 1 hander my buff stick and put defensive strike legacy on it as well. Put a few decent tanking relics on it and then you can go sword and board for occasional kiting / tanking situations.
I did close to the same thing at 65 (had OOC buffs + telling mark + power reduction legacies), but loaded it up with healing relics and had a mini shield paired with it. It did make a fairly significant difference.
If you just want to play the game, why are you arguing on the forums instead of playing the game?
Almagnus you mischaracertaized what I said again. I never said that's all I wanted to do was play the game and never come onto forums. Naturally if I come onto this forum I'm not "playing the game" now am I? I don't mind a debate when I"m on the forums. But that doens't mean I want to argue endlessly about "numbers" when I'm on the game.
And it's even more confusing to me why sweden thinks you scored some kind of point against me by saying this? lol W/e... I call bias referee to be sure.
But to hopefully end this argument, I'll give an example related to WoW to more clearly illustrate what I"m talking about.
Me and a friend were doing some boss fight where a bird is randomly summoned that grabs players and takes them out of the fight. Someone needs to kill the bird to release the player, and seeing as no one was killing the birds to release the players my friend started doing it to try and save the fight for us. We still wiped... and after the fight the hunter in the group posted the "numbers". And because my friend's dps on the boss s was low he started boasting about his awsomness and saying my friend was the reason we lost the fight becaue his DPS was too "low" on the boss. This annoyed both of us - so on the next fight my friend said "screw this" let the bird grab the hunter and fly him around the room while my friend just concentrated soely on DPSing the boss like the hunter was doing last fight, ignoring the fight mechanics.
After the fight my friend then posted his "numbers" showing the hunter at the bottom and him on top of the dps chart and laughed saying now who sucks. It was probably my favorite moment ever on WoW lol
So basically my point is it encourages a very shallow competetive elistist attitude where everyone just concentrates on beating other people's numers instead of being a team. That's why me and many others don't like it. It turns everything into an Epeen contest, and it's just obnoxious.
Me and a friend were doing some boss fight where a bird is randomly summoned that grabs players and takes them out of the fight. Someone needs to kill the bird to release the player, and seeing as no one was killing the birds to release the players my friend started doing it to try and save the fight for us. We still wiped... and after the fight the hunter in the group posted the "numbers". And because my friend's dps on the boss s was low he started boasting about his awsomness and saying my friend was the reason we lost the fight becaue his DPS was too "low" on the boss. This annoyed both of us - so on the next fight my friend said "screw this" let the bird grab the hunter and fly him around the room while my friend just concentrated soely on DPSing the boss like the hunter was doing last fight, ignoring the fight mechanics.
After the fight my friend then posted his "numbers" showing the hunter at the bottom and him on top of the dps chart and laughed saying now who sucks. It was probably my favorite moment ever on WoW lol
Thank you for providing an example of what not to do with a DPS meter.
Last edited by Almagnus1; Jun 11 2012 at 04:09 AM.
I have a L75 champion who recently rolled a l60 1st age captain 1h sword in Filikul - so decided to keep it and start a captain. My captain is currently in the Barrow Downs, and I have found him (even in medium) less squashy than the champ was in the teens and 20's - though as he was my first toon it could also be i have a better idea of what to do this time around.
My take on the captain is a jack of all trades who can dish out some pain at the same time - and whoto me leads from the front inspiring (uplifting, healing, inspiring etc.) the rest.
Therefore I had assumed that 2h or S&B would both be regularly needed, then i saw this thread in the recent forum post section and decided to have a read, as i was looking forward to using my first FA. I am now unclear as to the way I should approach things. My expectation is that as i reach level cap (and possibly earlier depending on group content i'm doing) i would be regularly re-traiting/gearing to deliver on the role i was doing in the skirm/raid...
The impression i have gained from this thread is that the captain is effectively used as a 95%+ constant set-up and that the vast majority of captains find one set-up and stick with it. Is this the general experience of people or have i just gotten a little word blind from the posts in here?
S&B -> check your stats as to what it does to your block
We run all sorts of instances with 2,3,4 captains to have fun. Meaning the capt tanks. In S&B you do take alot less maintenance healing wise.
My outgoing healing rating 2H or S&B is both at 50% maxed. I am not dps hungry as many seem to be - i do fine with my 1.5-2k hits with HoH traits all the way.
Harledir (United We Stand Kinship on Snowbourn) (retired LM)
Therefore I had assumed that 2h or S&B would both be regularly needed, then i saw this thread in the recent forum post section and decided to have a read, as i was looking forward to using my first FA. I am now unclear as to the way I should approach things. My expectation is that as i reach level cap (and possibly earlier depending on group content i'm doing) i would be regularly re-traiting/gearing to deliver on the role i was doing in the skirm/raid...
The impression i have gained from this thread is that the captain is effectively used as a 95%+ constant set-up and that the vast majority of captains find one set-up and stick with it. Is this the general experience of people or have i just gotten a little word blind from the posts in here?
As far as S&B and 2H goes, go whichever you want to run with, but bear in mind that S&B lends itself to a HoH or LoM build, while 2H will generally work for everything.
As far as traits goes, this is a breakdown of what I run with the content:
3 Mans: LoM, HoH, or LtC depending on the needed role.
6 Mans: LtC or LoM - very rarely will I do HoH, and only when there's another captain in the group to do the healing.
Raids: LtC for Draigoch and ToO T1 to Shadow, 4 red/3 blue for ToO T1 Saruman and ToO T2
Moors: PvMP LtC or 4red 3 blue depending on what I'm doing.
As you can see, I tend to change up traits fairly often. This is also why I advocate learning what your traits do, and then going for what works best for a given situation - and also why I rail against sticking with a single traitline above all else.
If you wanted to be lazy, and just stick with a trait line - either a 4R/3B or LtC build will work for 90% of the situations you encounter.
The impression i have gained from this thread is that the captain is effectively used as a 95%+ constant set-up and that the vast majority of captains find one set-up and stick with it. Is this the general experience of people or have i just gotten a little word blind from the posts in here?
I'd like to know how you define constant setup.
If my traits change is it a different setup? if my gear changes is it a different setup. Or is it only if my weapon changes?
In T2 shadow & FnF I run 4 yellow traits (the tank line) for force taunting. I also use a shield.
In lightning T2 & Acid T2 I run 5 red with a 2H so i can pump out dps. (Or solo'ing)
In Saruman T2 I've been running 4r,3b.
When running general content (foundry, rof, skraids) i just go with whatever i was traited last, because it all works fine. I just swap out legendary traits.
The impression i have gained from this thread is that the captain is effectively used as a 95%+ constant set-up and that the vast majority of captains find one set-up and stick with it. Is this the general experience of people or have i just gotten a little word blind from the posts in here?
Luder, it's best to focus your Captain so you can fine-tune him for certain support roles. They do have a lot of variances, but you are going to want your legacies/relics/gear to follow a general theme else you are going to lose effectiveness.
Right now most captains - especially on this forum - tend to lean Lead the Charge, so that's why it may seem that there is a lack of variety - but there really isn't. There are numerous ways to play the Captain Class effectively - but you do need to focus in one particular type of support if you want to maximize your potential in my opinion.
So while it's true Captains can shift in and out of different roles as the situation calls for it - I do believe you need to have a dominant style that mirrors your character's attributes and gear for more difficult content, else you are probably going to be a little dis-satisfied with the results.
All that being said though, we are a well-rounded class and that should be taken advantage of, and leaving glaring weaknesses in any particular build is going to hurt more than help.
The Song Brother/HoH disconnect is a nerf by borked mechanics.
HoH also lost the high healing rotation of WoC => Inspire => <skill>, which is an effectiveness nerf.
If those two nerfs weren't in place, you'd see far more HoH captains than you currently do =/
lol well I of course disagree with this, but let's not open this can of worms again. When Captains can heal 6 man content easily by themselves, there is deffinitely nothing wrong with our healing, least not as far as I'm concerned.
Just want to point out though I see plenty of HoH Captains, they just seem to be rare on this forum is all. I run into them all the time on my server while playing. Just to clarify what I meant there.
I'm still on vacation at the moment, so I won't get back to active playing with my Captain for another few weeks. That said, I should also mention I am a casual LOTRO gamer, so I only equip reputation and crafted gear. With said setup, I regularly run solo T2 skirmishes with little trouble.
As for the original post, I would only ever run with a 1H weapon + shield if I decide to trait deep in our Hands of Healing line, taking the healing role. I'd imagine damage output would be my least worry, as I'd be more concerned about power management for both vocal- and melee-based healing skills.
Tanking is something I've done for 3-mans, and off-tanking for skirmish raids. In both cases, I always trait 5y/2b, with capstone. Threat generation is not too hard to accomplish, plus the full x-brother benefits on myself boost my survivability. Not to mention, blocking occurs quite often, and help against ranged attacks as they do melee attacks from the front.
So to sum up my chime, I go 2H for tanking and damage roles (Leader of Men and Lead the Charge lines, respectively), and 1H+shield for the healing role (Hands of Healing).
As for the original post, I would only ever run with a 1H weapon + shield if I decide to trait deep in our Hands of Healing line, taking the healing role. I'd imagine damage output would be my least worry, as I'd be more concerned about power management for both vocal- and melee-based healing skills.
.
How would wearing a 1-hander help you with power managmenet for both Vocal and melee-based healing skills?
And Captains can easily do damage while healing at the same time Aztec. Seems an awful waste to me to just concentrate on doing one or the other when a Captain can easily do both.
lol well I of course disagree with this, but let's not open this can of worms again. When Captains can heal 6 man content easily by themselves, there is deffinitely nothing wrong with our healing, least not as far as I'm concerned.
I wasn't trying to "start" anything Almagnus. I simply stated I disagreed with you But I also said I really had no desire to re-open this can of worms.
Me and you have had this debate about why Song Brother isn't a "nerf" to Hands of Healing a million times. I don't really see any reason why we should make it 1 million in one. Just refer to my older threads if you want to know why I say that if you forgot.
I wasn't trying to "start" anything Almagnus. I simply stated I disagreed with you But I also said I really had no desire to re-open this can of worms.
You're still not addressing the Inspire change, which broke a very high healing output skill rotation. That was a nerf to HoH.
Originally Posted by Jeremi
Me and you have had this debate about why Song Brother isn't a "nerf" to Hands of Healing a million times. I don't really see any reason why we should make it 1 million in one. Just refer to my older threads if you want to know why I say that if you forgot.
Either you need to learn to not comment, or you finish what you start - and since you challenged the idea that Song Brother's broken state isn't a nerf to HoH...
FINISH YOUR ARGUMENT OR YOUR OBJECTION IS IRRELEVANT
Last edited by Almagnus1; Jun 12 2012 at 02:24 AM.
How would wearing a 1-hander help you with power managmenet for both Vocal and melee-based healing skills?
And Captains can easily do damage while healing at the same time Aztec. Seems an awful waste to me to just concentrate on doing one or the other when a Captain can easily do both.
2H or 1H+shield for a HoH build would be down to the player's preference. I just mean that I'd prefer the 1H+shield setup for said role. Plus, I only mention power management because the 1H eats up more power when I fire off the melee-based heals. Therefore, having full song-brother benefits can help compensate for the problem. In theory, I'd be responsible for primarily healing the party, so it falls to me to make sure I can survive to do that job. In that case, having a shield is prefered by me for defensive purposes. Given that, I would still use skills on the spot to try to branch out into our tank and damage roles as the situation calls for. That is usually the case, and I again point to the shield's defensive benefits. However, I know my limitations when I specialize in one traitline over another, so I can't pretend to do everything with the same level of effectiveness, else we wouldn't have need for specialized roles through trait setups in the first place.
2H or 1H+shield for a HoH build would be down to the player's preference. I just mean that I'd prefer the 1H+shield setup for said role. Plus, I only mention power management because the 1H eats up more power when I fire off the melee-based heals. Therefore, having full song-brother benefits can help compensate for the problem. In theory, I'd be responsible for primarily healing the party, so it falls to me to make sure I can survive to do that job. In that case, having a shield is prefered by me for defensive purposes. Given that, I would still use skills on the spot to try to branch out into our tank and damage roles as the situation calls for. That is usually the case, and I again point to the shield's defensive benefits. However, I know my limitations when I specialize in one traitline over another, so I can't pretend to do everything with the same level of effectiveness, else we wouldn't have need for specialized roles through trait setups in the first place.
I agree with you that it's the "player's preference" of course. Nothing wrong with one person prefering a 2-hander where as another may prefer a 1-hander. I was just trying to understand some of the reasons you prefered a 1-hand/shield approach when going Hands of Healing. Especially since you emphasized power-management as your primary concern, and now you are saying a 1-hander eats up more power. So I was a little confused on that.
Also if you're going to be running in Song Brother most of the time as you seem to suggest I don't see how "power management" would ever be a problem for you. You basically would have endless power no matter what you used.
Far as the "defensive benefits" of using a shield, I can understand why you might would like that. Though as a healer I woudn't think you'd be taking that many direct hits to where a shield would be nessassary, but I'm sure it could come in handy in some situations.
Tier2 Fangorn Edge for example comes to mind, since it's so easy for the healer to attract attention on that one. So some extra block would admitably be nice on something like that. But generally, as a healer - it's mostly the AoE and Tactical attacks we have to worry about - and I wasn't aware those types of attacks were "blockable".
You're still not addressing the Inspire change, which broke a very high healing output skill rotation. That was a nerf to HoH.
Either you need to learn to not comment, or you finish what you start - and since you challenged the idea that Song Brother's broken state isn't a nerf to HoH...
FINISH YOUR ARGUMENT OR YOUR OBJECTION IS IRRELEVANT
....Almagnus, this is a forum where people come together to agree and disagree with one another. All I did was say I "disagreed" with you. There is no reason to start typing font that is 100x large simply because I disagreed with something you said lol
And I don't always have to follow a disagreement with a long repetitive debate as to why I disagree. Nor is that nessessary to justify a comment, especially considering my "comment' was in response to a comment YOU directed at me. And I have debated Song Brother with you over and over on this forum numerous times. There is absolutely no good reason to do it again, because you aren't going to change my mind on it, and I'm obviously not going to change your's. But since you want to do it again so badly, I guess I will.
The introduction of Song Brother did not nerf Hands of Healing in any way. We are still at liberty to use Shield Brother. The only change Song Brother did for Hands of Healing was give us access to a very powerful and useful power tool. Why You think that is a "nerf" I'll never understand. It did nothing but help us - and we can now quickly recover power on ourselves or anyone else in the group at will.
Yes, while using Song Brother our healing does take a significant hit - but that is as it should be, else we could simply stay in Song Brother all of the time and would be grossly over-powered healers who could literally ignore having to worry about our power all together while healing at peak efficiency . That would be stupid in my opinion, and I like it the way it is now - where you use it strategically to recover power when needed while sacrificing some of your healing output to do it.
In short: It's a very useful skill, and a fine addition to our repertoire - and the inclusion of it didn't nerf me in any way. It did nothing but strengthen this class.
2H or 1H+shield for a HoH build would be down to the player's preference. I just mean that I'd prefer the 1H+shield setup for said role. Plus, I only mention power management because the 1H eats up more power when I fire off the melee-based heals. Therefore, having full song-brother benefits can help compensate for the problem. In theory, I'd be responsible for primarily healing the party, so it falls to me to make sure I can survive to do that job. In that case, having a shield is prefered by me for defensive purposes. Given that, I would still use skills on the spot to try to branch out into our tank and damage roles as the situation calls for. That is usually the case, and I again point to the shield's defensive benefits. However, I know my limitations when I specialize in one traitline over another, so I can't pretend to do everything with the same level of effectiveness, else we wouldn't have need for specialized roles through trait setups in the first place.
The 1h only uses more power because you're firing off more skills than with a 2h... In general that's kind of a good thing.
The optimal rotation in a 13s period (duration of battle shout ) is presumably:
Battle shout, sure strike, db/pa, inspire, blade of elendil
And then... every 20-30s do cutting attack/grave wound. Or valiant strike when you're HoH. And throw in war-cry, to arms, strength of will, rally cry, and WoC in there somewhere.
Turns out... a lot of the power problems in HoH are from not having 3red for the -melee skills power cost. 3/3 of b/r turns out to be amazing for power consumption. Also... the -melee skills power cost legacy is priceless imo.
Also nice to have you back on crick... If you feel like doing some light raiding to get gear unlocked you'll have to let me know.
The introduction of Song Brother did not nerf Hands of Healing in any way. We are still at liberty to use Shield Brother. The only change Song Brother did for Hands of Healing was give us access to a very powerful and useful power tool. Why You think that is a "nerf" I'll never understand. It did nothing but help us - and we can now quickly recover power on ourselves or anyone else in the group at will.
Yes, while using Song Brother our healing does take a significant hit - but that is as it should be, else we could simply stay in Song Brother all of the time and would be grossly over-powered healers who could literally ignore having to worry about our power all together while healing at peak efficiency . That would be stupid in my opinion, and I like it the way it is now - where you use it strategically to recover power when needed while sacrificing some of your healing output to do it.
In short: It's a very useful skill, and a fine addition to our repertoire - and the inclusion of it didn't nerf me in any way. It did nothing but strengthen this class.
When running a HoH capstone build, how often do you have a self-Song Brother on you?
i don't know how you can argue song brother is a nerf when none of the skills existed before.
a nerf is a downgrade in effectiveness from previous setup....
Shield brother is far better, blade brother is far better... Both those can be used in HoH.
I mean this has all been hashed out in the 6 HoH/Song brother threads there have been. I'll just defer to them.
When running a HoH capstone build, how often do you have a self-Song Brother on you?
What about self-Shield Bro when you're in LoM?
Self-Blade Bro in LtC?
Almagnus, you should know by now I don't play LoM or LtC. So of course I never have a "self-Shield Brother" or a "self-Blade Brother".
How often I have a "self-Song Brother" depends on what I'm doing. I can't quanitfy it, as it's too relative. I use it when I need it. That's the simple answer.
But just because I don't use Song Brother as frequently as other LtC or LoM Captains may use Blade-Brother or Shield-Brother doens't mean Song Brother was a "nerf" to HoH Captains. Because it wasn't. All it did was make the class better, not worse - therefore it can't accurately be described as a "nerf". It strengthened the class by giving us a powerful new ability that rapidly restores power and can be incredibly useful. So in reality it was a "buff and deffinitely not a "nerf".
If you are trying to argue it's not used as often as other Brother Skills that's fine, and that's a point I wouldn't go out of my way to disagree with. But describing the addition of Song Brother as a "nerf" to HoH Captains just isn't true in my opinion.
And now we have had the exact same discussion one million in one times. I may start using copy and paste soon to save myself some typing
i don't know how you can argue song brother is a nerf when none of the skills existed before.
a nerf is a downgrade in effectiveness from previous setup....
Shield brother is far better, blade brother is far better... Both those can be used in HoH.
I mean this has all been hashed out in the 6 HoH/Song brother threads there have been. I'll just defer to them.
This is probably best explained by first showing an image:
Notice what I boxed for each of the capstones?
Ideally, each of the brother skills, as listed on the capstone, should be the no-brainer choice for that line - at least, if everything was actually working as intended (hint: it's not).
The assessment of the Brother skills as RoR nears?
Self-Shield Brother dramatically improves LoM captain tank survivability, so that was a huge buff to that trait line. A LoM captain will run Shield Brother all the time, and if they don't, they risk going **SQUISH**.
LtC got a pretty good DPS buff from the self-Blade Brother. A LtC captain will run blade brother the vast majority of the time, with the option to sacrifice DPS for group survivability (which fits with how the class works).
Then there's HoH - I would wager that most captains you speak to would say that Shield Brother is a better healing tool than Song Brother, and because of that, the majority of HoH captains are not getting a self Brother. I mean if we're all basically saying:
Originally Posted by Jeremi
How often I have a "self-Song Brother" depends on what I'm doing. I can't quanitfy it, as it's too relative. I use it when I need it. That's the simple answer.
Instead of 100% (or at least 90% of the time) like the captains would say about LoM/Shield Brother and LtC/Blade Brother, then something is wrong with Song Brother.
Thus, if LoM and LtC got buffs from the self brother skills, and HoH effectively didn't (as observed by play, because Shield Brother is a better healing XBro than Song Brother) - in effect, HoH stagnated, while LtC and LoM were buffed. So two went up, while one stayed the same. Or put a different way, one got nerfed and the others didn't.
Originally Posted by Jeremi
Almagnus, you should know by now I don't play LoM or LtC. So of course I never have a "self-Shield Brother" or a "self-Blade Brother".
Therein lies the problem - because you have trait-line tunnel vision, this issue is not as obvious to you as it is to captains that switch between HoH, LtC, and LoM fairly frequently.
Edit:
And Turbine needs to do a text trim on the LoM capstone... talk about redundancy XD
Last edited by Almagnus1; Jun 13 2012 at 03:26 AM.
This is probably best explained by first showing an image:
No.. that was a silly idea. everyone already knows what the capstones do to FB.
Originally Posted by Almagnus1
Ideally, each of the brother skills, as listed on the capstone, should be the no-brainer choice for that line - at least, if everything was actually working as intended (hint: it's not).
Ideally according to who? According to you, basically. Not really according to Turbine, or myself. There have been no votes universe-wide of captains on this. You're entitled to your opinion, but it's not fact.
The other two traitlines were improved by the changes to fellowship brother, but so was HoH.
I can restore my power and reduce my power costs with song brother. That's a life-saving ability. At the same time, I can go shield brother and get drastically improved healing exactly where I want it. If anything I'd argue song brother is a boost to HoH, because you get basically the full benefit of two of the fellowship brother skills. Shield brother on the tank, or power restore on yourself. And while power restore is not a direct healing buff, it sure does look good when you're out of power.
LtC technically works the same way, but the benefits of having MoW traited vs not aren't nearly as significant as the bonuses you get from being in HoH, or the bonus you get from LoM. Can I argue that LtC was nerfed, then?
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Originally Posted by Jeremi
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