Trying to balance the classes/factions without considering populations is a poor way to design open PvP....
IMO, when "balancing" Open PvP you must consider population imbalances as well as class dynamics. I
Sorry, but population numbers tell you nothing. How many of those freeps/creeps are active? How many log into the moors only 1-2 times a month? And since audacity came alive: how many creeps are there just to do the PVE grind for the freep characters of the player and will never enter PVMP?
Some interesting premises presented here, population, HPS, control's and comparison classes.
Population how is that obtained through the black appendix? which one could argue that a number of the creep population arent in fact pvp'ing merely obtaining commendations, and a number of those creeps will be freeps farming quests/map deeds.
HPS/ Control's, it stands to logical reason that in a combat environment with 1 out of 3 inductions being interrupted (at least) that the ministrel dps will still be sustaintily higher as the initial numbers will prove if a mini can be obtained.
Comparison classes, well clearly the rk and defiler should be compared as it should also be compared to the ministrel as I recall it was quoted as the ministrel of the creepside apon its introduction in bk12. Wl should be compared to the captain and mini as it is also a hybrid of both.
Thats my two cents, nice to see numbers on the table proving many creep players correct, now we will see if the dev's will do anything about it.
Actually that's fairly easily determined... if I find some time... i'll try to run some stats on it. All of this is collected in the dataset behind the daily stats site.
- logins per month - Can determine by seeing how many days infamy/renown has changed
- PvE only - can determine by infamy change but no rating change
- Audacity difference - Can measure pre-audacity vs post audacity
Sorry, but population numbers tell you nothing. How many of those freeps/creeps are active? How many log into the moors only 1-2 times a month? And since audacity came alive: how many creeps are there just to do the PVE grind for the freep characters of the player and will never enter PVMP?
Sorry, but the population imbalance has existing for FIVE YEARS. Not always as extreme as it is now, and at times more extreme, but its has almost always favored creeps.
Every single person in the moors is either PvPing or preparing to PvP. As to which faction they are doing so for can be questioned, but without any data to say otherwise any assumptions you make must be made for both sides. Remember, we're talking about thousand of players over years of play, that's a pretty decent sample size and to try do dismiss it without any thing other than "What if"s is kind of weak.
Last edited by doug01; Apr 24 2012 at 11:21 AM.
"...FF is still the best server period, its like the Texas of Lotro"-Bace
Anyone have a reliable way to stay in combat with the training dummy? It drops combat with me after 16 seconds, which strips all my ballads and anthems and I have to auto attack it to get back in combat, which is keeping my parses way too short since I have to tier up for maximum heals. I am sure I am missing something obvious...
I'd suggest ghost swords but that requires going in to harmony stance and changes your single heal coda to a group heal and damage.
Anyone have a reliable way to stay in combat with the training dummy? It drops combat with me after 16 seconds, which strips all my ballads and anthems and I have to auto attack it to get back in combat, which is keeping my parses way too short since I have to tier up for maximum heals. I am sure I am missing something obvious...
As a minstrel once you drop combat with it, all your anthems and ballads go down immediately (not fade like out in landscape). There's no way I have found - even with auto attacks on (ofc) - to stay in combat with it beyond 16 seconds without restarting. Even if you drop combat for 1/2 a second before the next cycle begins, all your buffs are gone. So yeah, it won't work for minstrels trying to stay tiered up.
And Fam, Ghost Swords drop off as well, unfortunately.
♦ R13 Minstrel ♦ Guardians of the Dagorlad ♦ Jaiyne ♦
As a minstrel once you drop combat with it, all your anthems and ballads go down immediately (not fade like out in landscape). There's no way I have found - even with auto attacks on (ofc) - to stay in combat with it beyond 16 seconds without restarting. Even if you drop combat for 1/2 a second before the next cycle begins, all your buffs are gone. So yeah, it won't work for minstrels trying to stay tiered up.
And Fam, Ghost Swords drop off as well, unfortunately.
Ah - that's probably just the reset timer it seems to use. Burgs have trouble getting accurate parses because the dummy wipes bleeds every so often. Perhaps your ballads and anthems get wiped by the same mechanic.
Frankly, I'm not sure why that reset timer is there in the first place - if the concern is that people will kill the dummies, it seems to me that giving the dummies a 100k heal every 5s or something would alleviate that concern.
Ah - that's probably just the reset timer it seems to use. Burgs have trouble getting accurate parses because the dummy wipes bleeds every so often. Perhaps your ballads and anthems get wiped by the same mechanic.
Frankly, I'm not sure why that reset timer is there in the first place - if the concern is that people will kill the dummies, it seems to me that giving the dummies a 100k heal every 5s or something would alleviate that concern.
The reset timer is there because without it the dummies put you in combat permanently until you relog.
The way around that is to take a friend out, aggro a landscape mob and heal HIM for your parse, have him avoid damaging the mob.
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
First off I am not going to make an assumption to say something is balanced or imbalanced because i haven't look at all the factors. I can say that you haven't looked at all the factors. I think creep healing needs a boost but not to the magnitude that you outlined. I think more than a boost it just needs to be fluid. Starting off with the below...
Originally Posted by Sezneg
(hint: both freep healers can situationally ignore induction setbacks).
Wargs have a couple of ways to knock my inductions back right through the knock back immunity. So if the player knows what they are doing the above has no bearing. If I have a warg on me traited correctly with a brain, I will have a very hard time getting ONE induction off with my set-back immunity up. Also, silence! use it, it greybars most if not all healing skills and there isn't an equivalent on the otherside...if that doesn't work, fear or stun the healers. As an example, too many times I have seen a healer shield walled and the creeps can't figure out what's going on. See all those absorbs? Immobilize the guard!
Second, mitigations and morale of creeps. All of your class's have pretty good morale and mitigations compared to your freep counter parts. I would sacrifice healing output for tank level mitigations and moral the WL's have. My problem as a WL is that the skill rotation is pretty lame and needs a boost. Also, audacity on the creepside doesn't cause you to take off your mega-best gear and go with the pvp moors set. So if your have more you character is simply better, no trade off.
There are more, so much much more complexly than healing output.
Last edited by JohnnyManeuvers; Apr 24 2012 at 03:23 PM.
-Kebelglash - Lvl 75 Rune-Keeper - Guardians of the Dagorlad
-Chans R7 War Leader, Chanakh R6 Warg <Agony> -Turak Stormbreaker - Lvl 75 Guardian
"Sam gave it back..."
First off I am not going to make an assumption to say something is balanced or imbalanced because i haven't look at all the factors. I can say that you haven't looked at all the factors. I think creep healing needs a boost but not to the magnitude that you outlined. I think more than a boost it just needs to be fluid. Starting off with the below...
Wargs have a couple of ways to knock my inductions back right through the knock back immunity. So if the player knows what they are doing the above has no bearing. If I have a warg on me traited correctly with a brain, I will have a very hard time getting ONE induction off with my set-back immunity up. Also, silence! use it, it greybars most if not all healing skills and there isn't an equivalent on the otherside...if that doesn't work, fear or stun the healers. As an example, too many times I have seen a healer shield walled and the creeps can't figure out what's going on. See all those absorbs? Immobilize the guard!
Second, mitigations and morale of creeps. All of your class's have pretty good morale and mitigations compared to your freep counter parts. I would sacrifice healing output for tank level mitigations and moral the WL's have. My problem as a WL is that the skill rotation is pretty lame and needs a boost. Also, audacity on the creepside doesn't cause you to take off your mega-best gear and go with the pvp moors set. So if your have more you character is simply better, no trade off.
There are more, so much much more complexly than healing output.
Terrible misinformation here.
1. Wargs have a way to interrupt inductions rather than set them back? Of course! So do burgs, guards and champs. Hunters actually have one as well, though it requires melee range. If you want to see hilarity, watch any creep try to get an induction off after a burglar uses legacied addle on them to increase their induction durations by 75%. We can't cure that effect, by the way.
2. Silences you say? Well it's a good thing that you guys have multiple cures to silence effects! Minstrels can cure two silences themselves. Captains can cure silence effects on groupmates. Loremasters can cure silence on any person with SOP:R with a 5 second cooldown. Compare this to the new burglar silence (yes, burglars in the new pvp gear can silence). A single burglar can keep a warleader silenced for 10 seconds out of every 15 seconds, which disables every WL skill except common damage melee attacks. Creeps CAN NOT cure silences.
3. Higher morale and mitigations? First, in the case of captains vs WL... I call BS on claiming WLs have higher mitigation. Second, FREEPS DO 100% MORE DAMAGE THAN CREEPS. Our higher morale and generally high mits are supposed to make up for the fact that... you guys literally do 100% more damage than we do. HOW hard is that to comprehend after 5 years of this game? Why is this still a problem people have when comparing the sides? I don't know.
The fact that people cannot even admit that the healing disparity is a problem is, at this point, as funny as it is sad.
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
Analyzed back 29 days, from 24 Mar to 23 Apr for ONLY North American servers (query is huge with EU added in) without Vilya (since the leaderboards died for 2 weeks on Vilya, so couldn't track)
Creeps - Distribution of who played (made more than 0 infamy) on each character (realize though, everyone can have more than one creep. I don't have account info to tie chars to people, but if I can do this fairly quickly... Turbine can too)
You need to educate yourself if you are going to take such a staunch stance.
Originally Posted by Sezneg
1. Wargs have a way to interrupt inductions rather than set them back?
Not what I was talking about. I'll be as clear as possible. Wargs have a way to knock back an induction even if you have knock back immunity up. Since the source of the knock back is not damage and the immunity states, immune from knock back by damage, doesn't apply to that type of knock back. So YES, wargs can't knock back an induction even if my knock back immunity is up(p.s and it's a pretty consistant knock back too).
Originally Posted by Sezneg
2. Silences you say?
Ok lot's of QQ here. I was simply giving you a way around freep healers, but we can get nasty. You have a class that is more prevalent in the moors than any other, oh and they are invisible. They can apply varying types of CC from fears, silences, knock downs, stuns and interrupts from the same source. You want to compare numbers of burgs/capts to wargs you are going to lose by a mile.
Originally Posted by Sezneg
3. Higher morale and mitigations?
Don't really know what to say here besides you missed the point. You're a dev at turbine right? That's the only way you can infer that damage is the only reason creeps have higher morale/mitigations.
Originally Posted by Sezneg
The fact that people cannot even admit that the healing disparity is a problem is, at this point, as funny as it is sad.
Re-read my post I agreed with you...sad.
Last edited by JohnnyManeuvers; Apr 24 2012 at 07:35 PM.
-Kebelglash - Lvl 75 Rune-Keeper - Guardians of the Dagorlad
-Chans R7 War Leader, Chanakh R6 Warg <Agony> -Turak Stormbreaker - Lvl 75 Guardian
"Sam gave it back..."
Not what I was talking about. I'll be as clear as possible. Wargs have a way to knock back an induction even if you have knock back immunity up. Since the source of the knock back is not damage and the immunity states, immune from knock back by damage, doesn't apply to that type of knock back. So YES, wargs can't knock back an induction even if my knock back immunity is up(p.s and it's a pretty consistant knock back too).
No. They do not.
Wargs have a way to INTERRUPT inductions. Immunity to induction setback =/= immunity to induction interrupting effects.
The ability you are talking about is raking claws (eye rake will also interrupt inductions).
My point was that, with situational immunity to induction setbacks, freeps will ALSO still be able to interrupt creep inductions.
Originally Posted by JohnnyManeuvers
Ok lot's of QQ here. I was simply giving you a way around freep healers, but we can get nasty. You have a class that is more prevalent in the moors than any other, oh and they are invisible. They can apply varying types of CC from fears, silences, knock downs, stuns and interrupts from the same source. You want to compare numbers of burgs/capts to wargs you are going to lose by a mile.
1. You were wrong in stating freeps do not themselve have access to silence effects.
2. You did not take into account that freeps have many abilities to offset silencing effects.
If you want to start a general QQ thread about wargs, go start another thread. Trying to claim that the population of x class warrants a 150% disparity in healing output is asinine.
Originally Posted by JohnnyManeuvers
Don't really know what to say here besides you missed the point. You're a dev at turbine right? That's the only way you can infer that damage is the only reason creeps have higher morale/mitigations.
Oh, I don't know... they've probably stated this what... 50 times over the last 5 years?
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
Wargs have a way to INTERRUPT inductions. Immunity to induction setback =/= immunity to induction interrupting effects.
i am only going to reply to this because the rest is just useless emotional banter.
Yes, they do.
From what I understand Wargs can trait to have their bleeds knock back per tick. It goes right through immunity to knock back, at least for an RK. They do it to me every time I am solo'ing out there. Not all wargs trait this so not everyone see it.
-Kebelglash - Lvl 75 Rune-Keeper - Guardians of the Dagorlad
-Chans R7 War Leader, Chanakh R6 Warg <Agony> -Turak Stormbreaker - Lvl 75 Guardian
"Sam gave it back..."
i am only going to reply to this because the rest is just useless emotional banter.
Yes, they do.
From what I understand Wargs can trait to have their bleeds knock back per tick. It goes right through immunity to knock back, at least for an RK. They do it to me every time I am solo'ing out there. Not all wargs trait this so not everyone see it.
For the last time: You are wrong.
The brute bonus for warg claws in flayer stance INTERRUPTS inductions every tick (4 ticks over 16 seconds).
Interrupts =/= induction setbacks.
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
i am only going to reply to this because the rest is just useless emotional banter.
Yes, they do.
From what I understand Wargs can trait to have their bleeds knock back per tick. It goes right through immunity to knock back, at least for an RK. They do it to me every time I am solo'ing out there. Not all wargs trait this so not everyone see it.
What Stickeez said.
Wargs have no trait to knock back per tick. I don't know if this happens by itself, but I have never heard of bleeds knocking back every tick. What we have is pounce and eye rake in any stance which will interrupt inductions and raking claws while in flayer stance. Raking claws will apply a debuff to the target so that every 4 seconds, if you have an active induction, it will interrupt it. The only way we have to set back inductions (not interrupt them) is through damage.
The brute bonus for warg claws in flayer stance INTERRUPTS inductions every tick (4 ticks over 16 seconds).
Interrupts =/= induction setbacks.
Originally Posted by Samus1111111
What Stickeez said.
Wargs have no trait to knock back per tick. I don't know if this happens by itself, but I have never heard of bleeds knocking back every tick. What we have is pounce and eye rake in any stance which will interrupt inductions and raking claws while in flayer stance. Raking claws will apply a debuff to the target so that every 4 seconds, if you have an active induction, it will interrupt it. The only way we have to set back inductions (not interrupt them) is through damage.
Well you are right. That's even better than what I thought it did. Well you guys are right what can I say...buff creep healing I am a believer...
-Kebelglash - Lvl 75 Rune-Keeper - Guardians of the Dagorlad
-Chans R7 War Leader, Chanakh R6 Warg <Agony> -Turak Stormbreaker - Lvl 75 Guardian
"Sam gave it back..."
Just think: put raking claws on a target and use pounce to interrupt an induction. By time the healer starts inducting again then you the auto interrupt happens. Next induction it can eye rake. Next induction the auto interrupt can happen. After that the next induction can be silenced to cause an interrupt. Just keep cycling interrupt skills etc and wargs are very good at interrupting. Admittedly not as good as certain freeps but still fairly potent.
Wait a minute I forgot this is PvE we're talking about. Freep healers are never touched and they can sit in fights spamming heals nonstop without being bothered. Ignore what I said.
Just think: put raking claws on a target and use pounce to interrupt an induction. By time the healer starts inducting again then you the auto interrupt happens. Next induction it can eye rake. Next induction the auto interrupt can happen. After that the next induction can be silenced to cause an interrupt. Just keep cycling interrupt skills etc and wargs are very good at interrupting. Admittedly not as good as certain freeps but still fairly potent.
Wait a minute I forgot this is PvE we're talking about. Freep healers are never touched and they can sit in fights spamming heals nonstop without being bothered. Ignore what I said.
The "stacks up to three times" part was interesting as well. With proper timing, one could basically have an auto-interrupt every 1.3 seconds or so. That sure seems like it'd be pretty effective. Even Clobber in its glory days could only interrupt every 3.2 seconds.
The "stacks up to three times" part was interesting as well. With proper timing, one could basically have an auto-interrupt every 1.3 seconds or so. That sure seems like it'd be pretty effective. Even Clobber in its glory days could only interrupt every 3.2 seconds.
Only the bleed stacks 3 times. The interrupt buff doesn't and also, you can't refresh it until it has completely expired which makes keeping it up a bit of a pain tbh.
The "stacks up to three times" part was interesting as well. With proper timing, one could basically have an auto-interrupt every 1.3 seconds or so. That sure seems like it'd be pretty effective. Even Clobber in its glory days could only interrupt every 3.2 seconds.
You are actually quite wrong about the various restrictions of raking claws.
1. The interrupt effect is separate from the damage portion (continuing this game's love affair with throwing way too many icons under your health bar).
2. It does not stack with itself, nor with the same effect applied from other wargs.
3. It can not be refreshed (you have to let it expire before you can replace it).
Without these restrictions, the ability to stack such an effect would be overpowered.
Originally Posted by timmyloo22546
Just think: put raking claws on a target and use pounce to interrupt an induction. By time the healer starts inducting again then you the auto interrupt happens. Next induction it can eye rake. Next induction the auto interrupt can happen. After that the next induction can be silenced to cause an interrupt. Just keep cycling interrupt skills etc and wargs are very good at interrupting. Admittedly not as good as certain freeps but still fairly potent.
Wait a minute I forgot this is PvE we're talking about. Freep healers are never touched and they can sit in fights spamming heals nonstop without being bothered. Ignore what I said.
I never claimed wargs were not good at interrupting healers. As you've said, there are also freep classes that are excellent in this regard. This does not change the gaping problem creep healers have with induction setbacks, nor does it provide some sort of counter-argument to why they should gain it in some situational/limited form.
One more thing. Using raking claw precludes the use of any silence effects. In flayer stance, both of the warg's silence effects instead become disarms (better for dealing with RKs and loremasters, worse for dealing with minstrels and captains).
Last edited by Sezneg; Apr 25 2012 at 06:21 PM.
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
Only the bleed stacks 3 times. The interrupt buff doesn't and also, you can't refresh it until it has completely expired which makes keeping it up a bit of a pain tbh.
Originally Posted by Sezneg
You are actually quite wrong about the various restrictions of raking claws.
1. The interrupt effect is separate from the damage portion (continuing this game's love affair with throwing way too many icons under your health bar).
2. It does not stack with itself, nor with the same effect applied from other wargs.
3. It can not be refreshed (you have to let it expire before you can replace it).
Without these restrictions, the ability to stack such an effect would be overpowered.
Ah - I didn't know that, thank you both.
A 4s set-and-forget interrupt still puts the Warg slightly ahead of Champs and Burgs (5s each, assuming legacied Addle for the Burg, and the Champ/Burg has to actually be targeting someone), but creeps don't have anything close to the Burg's legacied Addle Induction Multiplier, which I understand is quite annoying.
Out of curiosity, have creeps been given abilities (other than Blight) which can reduce a target's incoming healing like it seems freeps have on some of their new PvP armor sets? I truly don't know, as I only logged in my Defiler long enough to choose "fat orc", and I haven't played my Warg in a long time (obviously).
A 4s set-and-forget interrupt still puts the Warg slightly ahead of Champs and Burgs (5s each, assuming legacied Addle for the Burg, and the Champ/Burg has to actually be targeting someone), but creeps don't have anything close to the Burg's legacied Addle Induction Multiplier, which I understand is quite annoying.
Out of curiosity, have creeps been given abilities (other than Blight) which can reduce a target's incoming healing like it seems freeps have on some of their new PvP armor sets? I truly don't know, as I only logged in my Defiler long enough to choose "fat orc", and I haven't played my Warg in a long time (obviously).
Dev strike has a -25% inc healing debuff. Of course, getting a target being healed to 50% to use dev strike can be... frustrating.
"Spiders CC is unbearable... it's just as bad as loremasters" ~ Brodster
Dev strike has a -25% inc healing debuff. Of course, getting a target being healed to 50% to use dev strike can be... frustrating.
Not as frustrating as when it gets RESISTED! When I start RESISTING MELEE ATTACKS I'll stop dying a little inside each time it happens on my Dev Strike
Not as frustrating as when it gets RESISTED! When I start RESISTING MELEE ATTACKS I'll stop dying a little inside each time it happens on my Dev Strike
Presumably it's just the debuff being resisted - you're capable of it yourself, too. You can resist the bleed being applied from melee attacks, and can resist the debuffs that Burgs apply through melee.
I don't know why Turbine decided to make it a separate check for debuffs from skills being applied as well as the check for the skill hitting in the first place, but that's the system we've got.
One more thing. Using raking claw precludes the use of any silence effects. In flayer stance, both of the warg's silence effects instead become disarms (better for dealing with RKs and loremasters, worse for dealing with minstrels and captains).
Actually, 1 of our silences becomes a +attack duration and slow that lasts 10 seconds and the other (howl of aggresion) becomes the disarm (aoe, 4 targets iirc).
Originally Posted by Lestache
Out of curiosity, have creeps been given abilities (other than Blight) which can reduce a target's incoming healing like it seems freeps have on some of their new PvP armor sets? I truly don't know, as I only logged in my Defiler long enough to choose "fat orc", and I haven't played my Warg in a long time (obviously).
If a warg is in flayer and the brute buff on maul activates (5% chance on a 20s CD skill, max of 25% if you use the brute buff skill that replaces stealth) it applies a -25% (iirc) heal debuff, but the number of times that procs even with the 25% chance is laughable.
Out of curiosity, have creeps been given abilities (other than Blight) which can reduce a target's incoming healing like it seems freeps have on some of their new PvP armor sets? I truly don't know, as I only logged in my Defiler long enough to choose "fat orc", and I haven't played my Warg in a long time (obviously).
Not incoming healing but defilers have a skill at R8 called curse of the melancholic heart that reduces outgoing healing by 25% for 30s on a 45s CD
Gestern haben wir in einem 18er Schlachtzug gegen ne 8er gruppe 8 minuten kämpfen müssen um sie down zu bekommen. Weil die Heilung der Barden/Hauptleute so imbalanced hoch ist. Kiten und im laufen Heilen..... kannste als Sabbo oder Kaff nicht. Die dots von Spinnen oder Sabbos machen so wenig schaden das die Freeps die sich nicht mal mehr nehmen müssen.
Gestern haben wir in einem 18er Schlachtzug gegen ne 8er gruppe 8 minuten kämpfen müssen um sie down zu bekommen. Weil die Heilung der Barden/Hauptleute so imbalanced hoch ist. Kiten und im laufen Heilen..... kannste als Sabbo oder Kaff nicht. Die dots von Spinnen oder Sabbos machen so wenig schaden das die Freeps die sich nicht mal mehr nehmen müssen.
Ya, if any freep healer is left alone, then they can almost heal the entire raid by themselves.
Freep heals are probably 3x as good as Creep heals, just mentally eyeballing it.
Originally Posted by Gillianrial
Anyone have a reliable way to stay in combat with the training dummy? It drops combat with me after 16 seconds, which strips all my ballads and anthems and I have to auto attack it to get back in combat, which is keeping my parses way too short since I have to tier up for maximum heals. I am sure I am missing something obvious...
AA a different dummy before the reset? I imagine that would work, but yeah this is annoying for getting accurate parses.
I personally love these threads where a single aspect of a class or group of classes is compared. Far too often people take one small aspect of a class and miss the forest for the trees. Here's an example:
Hunter DPS >> Blackarrow DPS. Therefore --> Hunters are better than Blackarrows.
Hunter survival skills << Blackarrow survival skills. Therefore --> Blackarrows are better than hunters.
This thread is just a messy joke of arguments about single aspects of certain classes, without anyone taking the whole picture into perspective. No two classes or heck even groups of classes like "healers" or "range DPS" or "melee DPS" are similar in PvP. Attempting to compare freeps/creeps gets no one anywhere and everyone no where. I bet a total of zero people have changed their perspective on the issue based on this thread or arguments here within. Have fun arguing ladies and gents.
I think the fact that you're trying to put together data to form a well reasoned and compelling argument is admirable.
Am I the only one who sees a nice simple solution to this problem that's already set up within the mechanics of the game?
Corruptions.
Adding tier 3 (& maybe even 4) corruptions would make a small difference across the board. A little extra damage output for dps classes with DfP/HfP/D 3 or 4 (maybe +7.5% and +10% damage accordingly), the same corruptions helping with healing output. HfP/D giving creeps extra survivability (+15% and +20% maybe?).
To balance it out access to these can be unlocked through a class trait you have to slot and maybe you can only slot one t3 and one t4 corruption at a time so no +20% damage from DfP4 and DfH4 plus an extra 40% health. It then forces you to choose between extra health or healing or damage adding complexity to builds.
That solves all problems, Freeps die a little quicker, creeps survive a little longer, healers have more health and more time to heal with plus slightly increased healing output. Plus turbine gets to sell some more skills in the store, everyone wins!
Senior Member Online status:
Reputation:
Originally Posted by doug01
Senior Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Senior Member Online status:
Junior Member Online status:
Grand Member Online status:
Reply With Quote
Posting Permissions
