Thread: Panicking in a larger group

Hello all,

I am an older player and I am not very skilful in handling my character. It does not matter in a solo play - I had no problem to take my guardian up to level 75. But when I am in a larger group, I realize it, I start panicking (I am quite a nervous person) and I am doing silly things. This sometimes has bitter ends, I hear some pejorative comments and I am kicked out of the group. It is quite frustrating and discouraging so when I am next time invited into the group by someone who does not know me very well, I am rather looking for excuses why not to join.

I wonder if I am the only fool of that kind in Lotro or if someone else has similar problems? I am still looking for my place in the game so some tips how to overcome this problem would be very helpful for me.

Maybe I should focus on the solo play only and do not stress myself even though I miss a big part of what Lotro is about...

Thank you for any comments on this post
Ashford

I play a minstrel and I kinda panicked a lot when I first started teaming. But I was with a great (kin) group who understood and helped me by telling me what to do and what to expect. Because of their understanding (and tolerance for wiping :P) i learned what to do and not to panic too much.

Practice helps a lot, but it also helps if people know what to expect from you, so if you join a group I would advise you to tell them you are new to grouping and can get a bit nervous. Start with things like Lhimlight Gorge dailies, skirmishes if you want to start easy, then do 6 mans and finally raids. And if you're in a kin, try to join kin groups as often as you can.

good luck and grouping is so much fun, dont let a few negative experiences hold you back!

Try and find a Kin with similar age and outlook to yourself, where the Kin leaders and members are helpful and willing to help players who like you say your self are inexperienced in group play. You should start of in skirmishes before tackling some of the more intricate instances, and if you pick the right kin they will realise this.

I think you might do well to find a kinship that is a good fit for you.
There are plenty out there comprised of "older" folks out there like myself, where people have kids and real life and understand even if you must leave during an instance.
I don't know what server you are on, but you are welcome to PM me on the forums if you'd like to talk any more about it.

Those instances can be intimidating! There is much going on. My kinnies have been very understanding that I need some practice in large groups-they remember how overwhelming it can be. You are not the only one!


I wish you the best of luck and please do message me if you like!

First, if you are not in a kin, find one to your liking.
Group with them, if you explain to them what is going on they will understand and help you if they are really nice people.
It takes time but eventually you will feel more comfortable.
It might take some time to find the "right" kin, but if you really like this game the effort is worth it.
Good luck!

There are a few things you could do improve your situation. Off the top of my head:

1) Find a kin with more mature (i.e. older) players. One that doesn't exist just to raid. The more casual the better, but with some high level characters, I'd say. Explain your situation and I'm sure they would be understanding.

2) No.1 will help you avoid PUG's (pick up groups) so you don't have to explain every single time that you can get flustered.

3) If you do group in PUG's, there are bound to be people you meet that are understanding, ask to put them on your friends list.

4) Try lots of 3 man instances. Less people, less mobs, less chances to get nervous. Work your way up to 6-mans and 12-ma skirms when you are comfortable with 3's. The game isn't a race, there is no rush

5) Practise makes perfect. Once you have run an instance a good few times, you will start to know what to expect so won't get nervous about it.

6) Don't be afraid to fail. It happens to everyone. A lot. If you get a hard time from folk after explaining you aren't #1 raider in the land, that's their problem.

7) Friends for instances, go find some like minded individuals. Ok, that's no.3 again, but it's maybe the best way to start feeling better about the whole 'instance' thing.

Hope my rambling has helped a bit!

If you are on Withywindle or Laurelin servers, feel free to send a tell to a kinnie in either 'wee shadows' on withy or 'alliance of the free peoples' on Laurelin. I'll help out whenever I can.

Hello Ashford,

First of all I'd like to say, don't worry. We've all been there when our characters first made it to the level cap. Levelling and group play are two very different things. Especially for a guardian, one could argue that tanking may be the hardest job in the game. Perhaps you've been a bit unlucky with that. Tank screwups are easy to notice, a captain's screwups for example can be alot harder to notice.

What I would advice you to do is to start with the easy things first, get some tanking experience. The more experience you gain from tanking lower level instances or maybe 75 group skirmishes the better you'll become. And once you'll notice you've become a better guardian, you'll have more confidence to tank the harder stuff, which will result in a better performance (less stress).

An active and helpfull kin with perhaps some experienced guardians in it would also help you a lot. I'm not sure what server you play on, but we from the Keepers of Silmsrils on the Laurelin server spend a lot of time and effort into training our new 75's (if they want to) to become better players. I can imagine we're not the only kin in lotro to do so.

Last but not least, you can't always control what happens in instances, but you can control certain other stuff. Make sure you've got your 5 virtues (zeal, innocence, fidelity for example) on rank 12-14. Do the epics and make a 2nd age guardians belt with the worn symbol of celebrimbor if you haven't got one of those already. Do skirmishes, barter greater scrolls of empowerment and rank up some important legacies on that belt. If you've still got quest armour and no medallions to barter the draigoch armour, do some quests on a creep character, gain commendations and barter ettens armour for your GRD (the pieces without audacity are quite cheap). I know it's a lot of work, but i'm pretty sure it'll improve your survivability a lot.

Good luck!
Cal

I am levelling a minstrel right now, and with Level ~25 I went to the great barrows with a group. I told the guys that I didn't know much about healing and will do my best, and that they should forgive me if somebody dies or we wipe. While everybody else in the group was still learning too, it was no problem at all. With some deaths, we fighted our way through, and I learned at lot during the way.

If you are Level 75, doesn't matter, everybody knows that today most people have to level up to the end game mostly solo and having no big routine in group play. Just tell the group that you still need to learn a little bit here and there, maybe there is someone in the group with the same class as yours as a twink, who can help you and give some advice. On my server there are several groups who explicitly say that newcomers are welcome and most people I met are very helpful and are happy to share their knowledge. If you join a group who just wants to farm an instance fast and wants experienced players, skip it. I always watch the lfg channel carefully, when someone takes time to write down a complete sentence and doesn't use abbreviations, he will have the patience to explain a bit before every encounter and to help group members with their tasks.

I have a speech I give, if I am playing with people I don't know really well. I figure I will be treated better and everyone else will not be upset if they know what to expect from me. So I just say "Hey for those folks who haven't grouped with me I just wanted to say I don't do big groups very often so if I seem lost or noobish, that is why, I really appreciate it if ya'll are understanding, but I also understand that some folks are really, REALLY particular, or have a very serious goal in mind, so I just wanted to let ya'll know before we start in case I am not a good fit for this group." I find that after I say this the people I play with are very supportive and appreciate my honesty and are happy to help and be encouraging. I also find that having given the speech, I feel much calmer about the whole situation which makes me more relaxed, and therefore less panicky.

Number 1: avoid min/maxers like the plague. If you hear any comments like: I want to beat our run's last time- get out!

Number 2: If you can- find a large kin. Even a casual one where noone is your level. It will get you used to watching chat while playing- important for grouping in any MMO. Ideally, that kin can also have a few higher levels as well, but not necessary.

Number 3: Don't PUG.It's harder on tanks, not just because tanking is difficult, but tanks are expected to know every nuance of a dungeon in an MMO. Even telling a PUG that you've never run it before can induce whining/pouting.

Number 4: Thank your dietyofchoice you are in LOTRO, where the average player is older, either physically or mentally. (Over 40 myself)

Number 5: Read about the instance walkthrough on the forum. Start small, work up to bigger. Make sure in your group someone has done the instance before- they can stop you before any major battle and talk through what you might be facing, so you can decide ahead of time what button you want to mash in response. (Spellcasting looks like this- I'll mash bash/stun in response). The nice thing about walkthroughs is, you can learn from everyone else's mistakes. Knowing what you do ahead of time, and to what, takes a lot of the panic out of it.

Number 6: Breathe. Stress reduces brain function 15%. It's why the military puts "front towards enemy" on Claymores. Most groups aren't in a hurry- take a break to refill your drink (bio break). Or just tell them you need a sec to get reoriented. I ditch PUGs that have crazy impatient 5 year olds. You'll know who they are- they tend to be the DPS that wants to pull, or the clothie healer that insists they can tank the boss (Now, sometimes you'll want a DPS to pull a single off to the side to CC them, so you aren't overtanking, but that's a different matter).

Large group content stresses me out completely. While I will do it to get the goodies involved, I prefer to play one on one with my dedicated partner. We know each other and can expect certain things. When it goes wrong, we rarely get angry at each other. In a big group when it goes wrong, there is always one or more people ready to jump on any mistake. The kind of person that will go on and on about how this person or that person isn't playing the game the way "it should be played"! Even when I am not the person that caused the problem for the group, I still get stressed trying NOT to be. That's just no way to have fun!

Originally Posted by Ashford

Hello all,

I am an older player and I am not very skilful in handling my character. It does not matter in a solo play - I had no problem to take my guardian up to level 75. But when I am in a larger group, I realize it, I start panicking (I am quite a nervous person) and I am doing silly things. This sometimes has bitter ends, I hear some pejorative comments and I am kicked out of the group. It is quite frustrating and discouraging so when I am next time invited into the group by someone who does not know me very well, I am rather looking for excuses why not to join.

I wonder if I am the only fool of that kind in Lotro or if someone else has similar problems? I am still looking for my place in the game so some tips how to overcome this problem would be very helpful for me.

Maybe I should focus on the solo play only and do not stress myself even though I miss a big part of what Lotro is about...

Thank you for any comments on this post
Ashford

Try grouping with just one other person on regular quests. till you get comfortable with a Guards role in groups, and don't worry about asking questions, Its been my experience that LotRO has more mature players that is more then willing to help with someones playing style, Good luck and above all, have fun.

No, you're not the only one, not by a long shot. No one who knows me wants me to along for Carn Dum because I always, ALWAYS, fall in the poisoned water. And I usually wait to do it until the boss fight. My real-life lack of balance seems to carry into the game. My kin mates know this, and seem to work it into their plans.

I would only add to all the good advice in previous posts that another advantage to being in a good kin is that you can probably find a mentor or two in your class. Stuff you excel at as a solo player may not be the best thing to do in a group situation.

The other thing (and this may sound silly) is to do instances that are outside. Someone suggested Limlight, which is a good one.

If you're on Landroval, please feel free to send Jasani an email if you want to talk further about the joys of being group-impaired.

You are definitely not alone. Groups stress me out badly. I don't want to ruin anyone else's fun by making mistakes, so I mainly solo or duo with my husband. Group stuff can be amazing when I'm grouped with friends, or fellow laid-back folks just having fun. These are rare times, in my experience, but well worth it.

I do hope you find some like-minded, laid-back people to group with. They are out there. When you do get to experience content on a low-stress team, you'll be able to just let go and laugh together when things go awry--and cheer for each other when you succeed. It's good fun. Good luck to you.

It may be too late for this advice but consider rolling a dps class like Hunter, RK or Champion. DPS in a group generally have it much, much easier and when they fail at grouping they usually only get themselves killed.

Tanks and healers have the much harder job and a much more visible roll in a group so when things go wrong they tend to take all the blame.

There is a reason why DPS classes are always the most rolled classes in mmo's-they are the easiest and least stressful roll.

If a dps class starts to get on you for not being the perfect tank just say "Why don't you tank it and show me how it's done?" Chances are pretty good they have no tank class or will have a hard time doing it too.

I'd agree with those who say you should find a social/casual kinship for yourself, with their average age being "mature enough" to understand we're all only humans. An example:

We did a Foundry T2 run with a kin group the other day. Four of the players in that group were there for the very first time, and we pulled it through, so you don't really need that much experience. Instead of that, you need a group leader who can give easily understandable instructions, and makes sure everyone understands how the instance works before the fighting begins.

Yeah, we wiped at the last boss once, but it was clearly my mistake. Shouldn't have stopped to heal the tank too close to the corner from where the fire begins. He was just scarily low on morale as I just had to run around because of the eye. Yep, I'm a minstrel - that's often the second most important class in a group, right after the tank. Second try was smooth as hell, it felt like we had done it a million times already.

So, to draw a conclusion... No, you don't really need to be experienced. Just find a kinship where people don't get angry for every little mistake. I make many mistakes myself, as you can figure out from above - and to be really honest, it would get boring (for me at least) if there was nothing new to learn in the game.

I don't really want to be "the perfect player" - good one is more than enough. It's a matter of opinion though, but I'd say that a good player is one who knows how his class works and is willing to learn more, both by listening to advice and asking for it.

Doing instances with random groups ALWAYS runs a risk of being insulted and booted regardless of how good you are. It's a pain. I don't do random groups anymore. They almost always expect you to be 101% perfect and I don't want them insulting me all over Global.

Your best bet would be to find a pleasant kin who are willing to assist you and guide you in group play.

Originally Posted by Ashford

Hello all,

I am an older player and I am not very skilful in handling my character. It does not matter in a solo play - I had no problem to take my guardian up to level 75. But when I am in a larger group, I realize it, I start panicking (I am quite a nervous person) and I am doing silly things. This sometimes has bitter ends, I hear some pejorative comments and I am kicked out of the group. It is quite frustrating and discouraging so when I am next time invited into the group by someone who does not know me very well, I am rather looking for excuses why not to join.

I wonder if I am the only fool of that kind in Lotro or if someone else has similar problems? I am still looking for my place in the game so some tips how to overcome this problem would be very helpful for me.

Maybe I should focus on the solo play only and do not stress myself even though I miss a big part of what Lotro is about...

Thank you for any comments on this post
Ashford

I'm a lvl 34 guard. I find the guardian thread to very helpful in helping you understand your role in a fellowship. Understanding your role and sticking to what your role is will help you to stay calm.

I agree with the above recommendations especially suggestions of finding a kin that will work with and teach you how to play at and excel with your character.
It is important to understand is that a tank has an especially important role in any instance content and is much more challenging than people credit. Also, LOTRO can be very challenging and you should therefore not expect to know how to do it great without plenty of experience. If you have mostly solo'd to 75 then you will need lots of practice in group content. Follow the above recommendations and realize that with familiarity of the instances will reduce the 'panic' quite a bit. Please don't give up on group content however - it really is one of the greatest parts of this game but is more fun when you have a great group of guys to work with.

Dear all,

Thank you very much for all the encouraging and helpful comments and hints! I will try to follow them and maybe my group performance will improve. I am playing on Snowbourn by the way.

Ashford

A lot of good advice in this thread.
I was in your position a month ago and decided to go to the Riddermark server sub-forum and post that I was looking for a kin.
Here is my post. http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-for-a-Kinship.

I found a kin and started to do groups regularly and once some of the kinfolk took me in some groups and I learned the ropes I found out it isn't that tough at all.

So as others have said:
1) Find a good kin that understands where you are in the game and where you want to be. You are level 75 so you know how to plac play your Guardian and you just need to find out which of those skills you've learned are best used in a group situation.
2) Don't sweat it! Everyone makes mistakes and it isn't the end of the world. You and I may never be as uber-leet as the typical 12 year old gamer but who cares.
3) KEEP HAVING FUN !!! If what you are doing and the people you are doing it with isn't fun for you then move on and find the right fit.

Grouping isn't magic and it can be a lot fun. Just find people willing to explain how the various dungeons/instances work and you will learn and you will get better.

I want to start group content but am worried about messing up and ruining things for the other people. I figure I will just be honest about it and see what happens. My plan is to post in LFF: '75Mini LF Skirms, new to groups, clueless, but able to follow directs and learn from mistakes'. By starting my larger group experience in Skirmishes I can be sure I have run them all ahead of time so I have seen the layout and the basics of the fights, then I should be able to focus on the 'group play' aspects with a bit less stress as I learn the differences. Something like that might help you as well if you aren't in a kinship that can run with you.

My advice will be somewhat different. I've played a bunch with older folks, folks who spread themselves too thing between alts so they don't know what the skills on THIS class do, and folks who are impaired in other fashions.

First, make another guard as an alt. Level to 20.

Now PUG in Great Barrows Maze every chance you get.

Why? Because PUGs have lower expectations of you than kins. PUGs welcome all. PUGs can be harsh (kins tend to actually be harsher--personal criticism tends to be harsher than anonymous), but you can easily turn that to your advantage, if someone is disparaging, explain why it happened from your perspective. Those who were harsh will either understand (and thereby learn), or will explain why they were harsh (well when we got overwhelmed, if you had hit X, it would have saved the day), and you learn.

Try to get in to groups NOT asking for a tank, but offer to off tank instead. Then the pressure is off you, and on the main tank, meanwhile your role is to be sure nothing ever touches the healer, it's great for tank training.

Nervousness comes from adrenalin and heightened anticipation of what might happen. Once you do something enough that it's routine, there's no nervousness to distract in "the moment".

OK, now that you've accomplished that, now lead some GB Maze groups. Wow, different perspective huh? Frustrated by some players who are being flaky? Now you can appreciate the other side of the coin too--this is what happens when group members are unprepared.

Once you've learned all you can from GB Maze, you'll probably be high enough level for GB Thadur. Suddenly the challenges have a different nuance, CC becomes more important, successful Fellowship Maneuvers can make it or break it. It's also the first time players confront a MOB that reflects damage afaik (which is amusing when high level players don't know this, and wipe themselves by it).

The tank role here is rather limited, you pretty much just do one thing (stand there generating threat on one MOB), then one other thing (get threat and kite), then repeat.

Notice the instances are designed to teach you individual game elements?

Now hopefully you'll be comfortable enough putting groups together yourself to run GB Sambrog. A couple new elements are added here, like moving out of "puddles" (spots where the group takes damage, or is weakened by being there, so the tank needs to move the fight to the clear).

There's less to deal with in the lower level instances, you have limited skills, so are less likely to be overwhelmed by the innumerable choices of higher level characters. They are also the same core skills you'll need at higher levels (both game skills and player abilities).

Once dealing with those things is routine, THEN move on. Different mechanics are introduced in higher level instances. The whole game is designed to teach/train you for higher level content, leading you step-by-step through the process one element at a time.

When you get that alt to Moria (50+), join any group doing any Helegrod raid. There'll be another tank, let them be the main tank, simply say "I'd prefer to off tank". With a dozen people, it's easier than the smaller six-person instances, as each individual contribution is less of the whole. Also everyone screws up, so if it goes wrong, it's usually because multiple people goofed, not just you.

Now for a tank, here's an important instance in low 50s, Forgotten Treasury. It's the first instance that becomes available in Moria, and many overlook it. But it teaches group skills (you have to watch the order statues turn to manipulate them later), has items dropped that you want to use to affect a boss's defenses later, and requires two tanks coordinate what they do to handle two bosses simultaneously.

One caution, never, ever do these instances with level cap players on the runs. Level 75s can solo the Moria instances, so you can't learn anything watching them run through, never even seeing FMs 'cause the MOBs die before anyone can hit a color, never seeing the MOBs big attacks, never getting threat with your tank, if the hunter is 75 and is tanking instead, never needing a single defensive skill, etc.

If you wish to continue learning game mechanics, get to level 65 and do the "In Their Absence" instances (particularly Lost Temple). These will teach you all you need to know for handling the Orthanc raid at 75.

---
Another option, which I don't recommend for the OP due to nervous nature, but other tanks who find themselves at level cap lacking experience, create an alt healer and heal PUGs. Healers see exactly what tanks do right/wrong/differently/successfully/poorly/etc. You can really expand your tanking repertoire by healing and seeing what other tanks do. (Nervous folks often feel too much pressure healing and can be stressed by it.)

---

Some might wonder why I don't recommend a kin. Yes, a kin will be supportive. Yes, a kin will accommodate your nature. Yes, a kin will only let you off tank, never letting you main tank. But being coddled by a kin will not help you learn, get over your nervousness, or grow as an individual or player. Yes, they will encourage you, yes, they will support you, yes, they will placate you, and yes, it will be more comfortable. But do you wish to accept lack of ability as comfort? Or increase ability so you can be comfortable with your own knowledge?

That said, DO keep folks who you play well with and appreciate on your friends list. You are likely to end up in a good kin via them regardless, but do not restrict yourself to grouping with just them. Your exposure/knowledge will be limited by theirs. (The biggest issue isn't not knowing something, as you can ask to find an answer; the worse issue is not knowing that you don't know something, as you don't even know there's a question to be asked.)

tl;dr: PUG lots in lower levels



"Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

Originally Posted by Ashford

Hello all,

I am an older player and I am not very skilful in handling my character. It does not matter in a solo play - I had no problem to take my guardian up to level 75. But when I am in a larger group, I realize it, I start panicking (I am quite a nervous person) and I am doing silly things. This sometimes has bitter ends, I hear some pejorative comments and I am kicked out of the group. It is quite frustrating and discouraging so when I am next time invited into the group by someone who does not know me very well, I am rather looking for excuses why not to join.

I wonder if I am the only fool of that kind in Lotro or if someone else has similar problems? I am still looking for my place in the game so some tips how to overcome this problem would be very helpful for me.

Maybe I should focus on the solo play only and do not stress myself even though I miss a big part of what Lotro is about...

Thank you for any comments on this post
Ashford

You are not alone and you are not the only one to experience this. There have been some great suggestions so far but I'll toss out some other ideas too although some may not be so encouraging.

1. Find a kinship - IF you can. That's a BIG IF. A kinship by self will not help because many of the same types of grumblers that you have met are likely to be in a kinship too. I was grumbled at enough that I've left several.

2. You are running a Guardian. I have the same problem with my guardian. No one gives me flack over my LM but for my Guard - it's open season. It's so bad, I just keep him on annonymous now and only play with selected folks that won't get upset if something non-guard-like happens.

3. In groups, especially those looking to do higher instances (like raids) there are way fewer forgiving players. Some are so focused on "the boss chest" that any delay whatsoever causes major trauma. If you wipe - its the guard's fault and then Drama Happens. When you group up for those types of instances be prepared or don't tackle those challenges. Go down a notch and do something more comfortable.

I am fortunate to have some good player friends who love my guard. I play him unorthodox but I get the job done and we have a good laugh too. My friends are focused on having FUN but we like to get the loot box too. No one gets bent-out-of-shape if something odd happens. They are all top notch players and if the hunter wants to pull aggro they KNOW how to tank it without yelling "get it off get it off". <G> Same with the Champs, if they steal the aggro they can give it back if not we have a friendly "war" an play at pulling mobs away from each other.

4. Sometimes but not always, it helps if you as the Guard take the lead and set the pace. Depending on the instance and circustances, keep the group moving. A really good guardian mentor once told me that the Guardian sets the pace. So, jump on those mobs NOW. Give that hunter something to shoot at and the mini busier than ever. Pull it all if you think the group can handle it. Grab a troll too. Challenge THEM then there's a lot less grumbling about the Guard failing. If you die the DPS didn't take down the Troll - too bad for the hunter. This will not work in a big raid unless you have loads of trash to pull and you know the instance but for other stuff. Way Hey and Wade In.

So if you can find some nice folks to play with and stick with those, whether they are in your kinship or not, you will have a lot more fun.

Originally Posted by RJFerret

Why? Because PUGs have lower expectations of you than kins. PUGs welcome all. PUGs can be harsh (kins tend to actually be harsher--personal criticism tends to be harsher than anonymous)

This is utterly the opposite of my LOTRO experience. PUGs are brutal, kins (the right kin, anyway) are supportive and relaxed. I assume you have had some bad kin experiences - I am sorry for that but the conclusion it has led you to is, I believe, very far from being generally applicable. OP needs to find a decent-sized, casual kin. Make clear from the very start what he hopes to gain (experience) and what he can offer (good company). By all means add some PUGs to this mix - low-lvl Great Barrows is indeed a good tip. But overall I echo the advice of others that a kin is the way for the OP to answer his concerns.

Originally Posted by RJFerret

Some might wonder why I don't recommend a kin. Yes, a kin will be supportive. Yes, a kin will accommodate your nature. Yes, a kin will only let you off tank, never letting you main tank. But being coddled by a kin will not help you learn, get over your nervousness, or grow as an individual or player. Yes, they will encourage you, yes, they will support you, yes, they will placate you, and yes, it will be more comfortable. But do you wish to accept lack of ability as comfort? Or increase ability so you can be comfortable with your own knowledge?

That said, DO keep folks who you play well with and appreciate on your friends list. You are likely to end up in a good kin via them regardless, but do not restrict yourself to grouping with just them. Your exposure/knowledge will be limited by theirs. (The biggest issue isn't not knowing something, as you can ask to find an answer; the worse issue is not knowing that you don't know something, as you don't even know there's a question to be asked.)

tl;dr: PUG lots in lower levels

That's one way to think, yes. However, I don't see "being coddled by a kin" as a proper assumption or generalization of what kinships are. We, for example, do not coddle anyone. Whenever we do a kin run to an instance with members who have been with us for a shorter period of time or have been on a break for some time, we ask a question; does everyone know the instance?

If everyone does know it, there will be less instructions. Some shouts here and there about what to do, for example reminders about the "obvious". Attack that one first, then the other. Telling people to use their pots to remove wounds if they missed a bad one or such. If someone says he or she doesn't know it that well, there will be a whole lesson. Every nuance of the instance will be told in advance of the fights. If there's specifics to where a tank should stand, where the others should stand, these will be told in advance.

Being told what to expect makes it easier to learn, as there's none - or not as many - of those surprises that take you off guard. I believe it's these unexpected things that cause many wipes - and through wipes, nervousness.

That's our kin's way - pugs that I've been in don't really always advice. Sometimes they just blindly think that everyone in this world and the next one should be experts in every instance and raid, and start screaming, whining and cursing at you for pressing a wrong button once. That is why I don't do pugs, at all. I'm not in a rush to get all the phat loot that exists in this great game, so I'll rather stick with the kin groups where I know mistakes to be tolerated.

I'm the leader in that kinship and I make mistakes myself, so I can't expect everyone to be flawless. If someone was flawless, I'd be suspicious about his true nature; as in, is he even human, or perhaps a robot?

Originally Posted by Ashford

Dear all,

Thank you very much for all the encouraging and helpful comments and hints! I will try to follow them and maybe my group performance will improve. I am playing on Snowbourn by the way.

Ashford

Oh I've heard lovely things about Snowbourn Vibrant and plenty of kins. You shouldn't have trouble finding one of oldies

Originally Posted by Ashford

Hello all,

I am an older player and I am not very skillful in handling my character.

Nobody, regardless of age, is instantly skillful on their class. But learning it in a high stress environment isn't the best way. I'd find a friend who you know to be good on your class (Guardian) and ask him or her for tips on gear, skill rotations, etc. Also, if you're not already doing so, dig through the Guardian forum here. And post there if there's something specific you'd like more information on. Lots of people will be happy to help in a much more relaxed environment.

Also, I suspect part of your problem is with the confidence factor. Getting more experience and knowledge will help you know when things are going wrong when it is due to something you're doing or not doing, and when it is due to somebody else not doing things right. Heck sometimes it can be going wrong due to just dumb bad luck. If you're in a random Foundry, Roots or Orthanc pug, I'd say odds are pretty good that there are more than one there not fully expert on their class!

So if a hunter complains loudly that you let the skirmish lieutenant go after him and pound him to dust, you can calmly say something like "Oh I'm sorry. When I saw you open on it with a swift-bow, penetrating-shot before I had a chance to hit it a couple times, I just ASSUMED that you were looking to try tanking it and left it alone. FYI: I save engage and challenge to peel things off of healers, plus I know the Cappy is still working on her rez deed."

Realize the game is actually not as fast paced as what it might seem. Take the time to assess what's going on before taking action, whether that be Challenge the Darkness or using Pledge for Guardian specific examples. Or not chasing after an errant single mob going after a Minstrel if there's a champ, Captain or hunter already on it. The biggest error I see with this issue is with a class like hunter thinking that they aren't doing their jobs right if they aren't currently shooting something. This is wrong, because not shooting can sometimes be the better choice (i.e. Letting the tank pickup some aggro) or they shoot the wrong thing in haste (mezzed, not yet in the fight, etc.).

Originally Posted by Ashford

Hello all,

I am an older player and I am not very skilful in handling my character. It does not matter in a solo play - I had no problem to take my guardian up to level 75. But when I am in a larger group, I realize it, I start panicking (I am quite a nervous person) and I am doing silly things. This sometimes has bitter ends, I hear some pejorative comments and I am kicked out of the group. It is quite frustrating and discouraging so when I am next time invited into the group by someone who does not know me very well, I am rather looking for excuses why not to join.

I wonder if I am the only fool of that kind in Lotro or if someone else has similar problems? I am still looking for my place in the game so some tips how to overcome this problem would be very helpful for me.

Maybe I should focus on the solo play only and do not stress myself even though I miss a big part of what Lotro is about...

Thank you for any comments on this post
Ashford

Find a group of friends or kin that you can group with regularly that is SUPPORTIVE! The more group experience you get the less panicky you'll feel because you'll understand both the character class and the content. Having friendly faces to play with helps big time. I generally just group with my kin because they're a great group. I've also met solo players along the way that I've done my part to help and be supportive of. The way I see it is if I make a new friend and help them along then I'll have another buddy to do group content. At the end of the day I'm here to have fun and not be a jerk to people. It's just a game after all

It all comes down to the people you group with. Some will support you and some will not. Kins are the same way. Cliques within the same kin can go both ways as well.

It’s the same in real life. People who try to beat you down are generally the least likely to admit that they have drawbacks in their own performance as well. People who support you are generally less ego (fear) based.

Find a kin with people you like and develop a friends list.

Originally Posted by RKL

It all comes down to the people you group with. Some will support you and some will not. Kins are the same way. Cliques within the same kin can go both ways as well.

I guess that's true, but by my experience, these "cliques" happen in kinships, guilds or clans that are too big. If people don't really get to know everyone, there can be "groups within groups" - as in, smaller groups that play only amongst themselves within a big kinship.

In smaller kinships (such as the one I'm leading; goal is to stay as small as possible while still being able to do group content), everyone gets to know other members well over time, and as the result, these cliques hardly even exist. If they do, someone has probably joined a wrong sort of kinship.

Originally Posted by Ashford

Hello all,

I am an older player and I am not very skilful in handling my character. It does not matter in a solo play - I had no problem to take my guardian up to level 75. But when I am in a larger group, I realize it, I start panicking (I am quite a nervous person) and I am doing silly things. This sometimes has bitter ends, I hear some pejorative comments and I am kicked out of the group. It is quite frustrating and discouraging so when I am next time invited into the group by someone who does not know me very well, I am rather looking for excuses why not to join.

I wonder if I am the only fool of that kind in Lotro or if someone else has similar problems? I am still looking for my place in the game so some tips how to overcome this problem would be very helpful for me.

Maybe I should focus on the solo play only and do not stress myself even though I miss a big part of what Lotro is about...

Thank you for any comments on this post
Ashford

There is a lot of stress for tank and heal classes because if those two classes aren't the strongest, chances are the group isn't going to be successful. It took me a while to be comfortable and competant in healing, but I had the good fortune of a lot of good mentors. So I would suggest you do a couple of things to start building your confidence and learning how to play your class to the best of your ability so you can enjoy the group content without having to worry about it.

1) look for guides on your class. Everyone has different tips and tricks for what works best, so read them, consider them, and try them out. If they don't work for you, try something the next. Also, different instances and 'oh @#&*' moments will take different skills and reactions, so keep that in mind when people make a suggestion.
2) look for a good kin. If you are interested in the end game content, or maybe just small groups, look for a kin that's got good players who can give you advice and who will be patient with you as you learn the best ways to tank in multiple situations. If you are constantly PuGing the odds of you getting people willing to teach you are going to be pretty low. You'll have more fun and less stress if you are with a group of people who know you and want to help.
3) see if you can find a healer to duo with. Try some duo skirms with them and do larger mob-density pulls and work to make sure nothing breaks off to snack on the healer. This will be nice practice for larger groups.

To the OP:

I'm pretty much like you; maybe not so nervous about it so much as I don't want to stress myself out
about worrying what everyone else is doing, whereas I know real well what I am doing on my own.
For that reason, I will probably never, ever group.

find a great kin. thats all i can say.

my kin is small, and we all play at different paces and are all geared differently. We had some fresh 75s that were geared horribly and didnt know anything about grouping, but with patience we got them up to date with gear and knowing instances/raids etc etc and now they are great players that are highly valuable to our kin.

Its just a game, everyone makes mistakes and thats why a kin is great because they tend not to be jerks about them. Just enjoy yourself and remember its only a game

good luck!


also remember: hunters are idiots and love to pull aggro off you (as a tank) thats not your fault, thats the hunters.

<3 hunters

I raid regularly with my kin. I am by no means the best player, but I play my best. I'm 53, a grandmother, and have range of motion issues with wrists, etc.

In addition to the other suggestions, consider starting your own groups. Yes, you. Hit your global looking for fellowship channel and be forthcoming in your post. "Inexperienced guardian seeks others willing to learn to group together to do ___, and not get stressed out trying." Stick with small fellowship stuff to start out. Read up on an instance, and then get a group for that instance. There are posts all over this forum from folks just like you that are looking for someone a bit more forgiving to learn about group play. Help yourself to find them!

Finally, as a guardian and tank, I'd suggest just focusing on trying to do a few things well at the beginning. It doesn't need to get fancy.

1. Follow the leader's directions
2. Keep mobs turned away from other players
3. Trait for threat/tanking and just worry about your threat generation skills at first while grouping. The groups just want you to hold stuff still for them, it doesn't need to get fancy. Guardian forums have some really good threads about what skills to chain together for best effect.
4. Move out of area-damage (acid pools, caltrops, etc.), but move FAR enough that the other melee characters can also clear the effect but still get to the mob. If you learn how to do this, you'll probably be considered stellar. I am always amazed when PUG'ing at how many tanks don't notice the area-damage stuff and/or won't move.
5. Be careful of stuns. Guardians have fair number of them, but mezzes and fellowship maneuvers get screwed up if something is in the immune phase following a stun. Be stingy with your stun skills in a group.

Keep it simple. Have Fun! This is recreation. The defeats are a learning tool. Yes, it can get annoying after a while, but how do you think the groups that claim "First" in every raid learn that raid? They die...a lot.

I would honestly recommend a class that has less responsibility. Champions, dps rune keepers and hunters are all pretty low stress, low responsibility classes in that you will only be asked to attack whatever the main assist has targeted and not pull agro from the tank. Sometimes you'll be asked to off tank on your champion or CC as a hunter, but those situations are pretty rare.

Originally Posted by Ashford

when I am in a larger group, I realize it, I start panicking (I am quite a nervous person) and I am doing silly things. This sometimes has bitter ends, I hear some pejorative comments

Did u report them? I would report them all!

Originally Posted by raltar2

I would honestly recommend a class that has less responsibility. Champions, dps rune keepers and hunters are all pretty low stress, low responsibility classes in that you will only be asked to attack whatever the main assist has targeted and not pull agro from the tank. Sometimes you'll be asked to off tank on your champion or CC as a hunter, but those situations are pretty rare.

hunter may be low stress for themselves, but not for the rest of the group when they pull aggro.

I dont know about anyone else, but as a champ its not that low stress at all for me. Im up close to mobs with no defence (fervour baby!) trying to max my dps without stealing my poor tanks aggro, and if something happens to the tank its usually our job to chuck on some vit gear ASAP, pop glory and tank while not traited for tanking. stressful!

If you are good at your class and the tank is good, you should never pull agro unless you are trying to.

Originally Posted by raltar2

If you are good at your class and the tank is good, you should never pull agro unless you are trying to.

hence what i said

"trying to max my dps without stealing my poor tanks aggro"

its a fine line between max dps and "OMG SOANDSO DID IT AGAIN GDSAHKGDSAHK"
sometimes that line is crossed

shing shing!