Thread: Our Fate Entwine suggestion

My suggestion is to make that OFE keep all fellwoship at the same percentage ratio of morale...

the mechanic is quite simple...

OFE create a pool of cumulated morale:
(arbitrary value chosen to make calculation more convenient)
Tank 10k morale
5 others 2k morale
no pet.
Totale 20 K

so a hit of 8k on tank would cause without OFE to drop to 2k morale.

with OFE the pool would drop to 12k so 40%, then the damage would be distributed:
Tank minus 40%= 6k morale
5 others minus 40%= 1.2k morale

This way the burst damage would allow the HoT of RK to become more effective and would allow the Dev to orientate the RK more into the HoT way instead of Creating Direct heal like Rune-Sign of X.

ummm...no.

Originally Posted by PerfectApproach

ummm...no.

ummm...why?

answer without any argument are just useless.

Originally Posted by jeanperson

ummm...why?

Because it's a really, really bad idea. Especially considering it works pretty well the way it is.

Since you're probably going to want a specific reason, I have one for you.

Originally, AFE sent 10% of the damage from the fellowship to the RK. This in essense did a similar thing to what you suggest, where it spread the damage out more evenly (albeit not to the whole fellowship). However, it was changed in the first place because the damage would quite often kill the RK. This would end up doing the same thing, because although the damage is more distributed, the fellowship in total takes more damage (in your example, there is a total of 12k damage done instead of 8k, and it leaves 5 of the people sitting at 800 morale). In most fights, everyone is taking damage to begin with, the tank is just taking a majority of him.

Personally I'd rather heal 8k worth of damage on the tank (who is going to have incoming healing to help with that) over healing 12k damage spread through the fellowship, providing some AoE for 1k doesn't hit the entire fellowship right after, leaving JUST the tank alive.

Also, Rune-sign of X IS a HoT. There's no up front heal about it, so I'm confused why you bring that up.

The skill is fine the way it is. It already makes a noticable difference. If any changes made it better the skill would likely be overpowered.

Resto-Shamans in WoW have a similar skill: Spirit Link. It would equalize the morale pools to be at the same percentage every X seconds for Y pulses.

I like the idea in general but would not want to change AFE to do this. I could see this as a long cooldown skill (5m) being granted by a legendary trait:

"United we stand" - every 3 seconds for 9 seconds, the morale pools of the fellowship is redistributed so that each player have the same relative morale. On expiery: Each player is healed for 10% of their maximum morale.

Originally Posted by Raven-EU

"United we stand" - every 3 seconds for 9 seconds, the morale pools of the fellowship is redistributed so that each player have the same relative morale. On expiery: Each player is healed for 10% of their maximum morale.

Wouldn't that be bad in raids where things get rough? Take F&F T2 for example. When grims spawn and the group backs away the group members might get to 20-50% morale. If everyone in the group drops to 30% morale and the tank is still near full the tank's morale is then redistrubeted to fellowship and now the tank drops down to 40% morale while tanking. I don't like that idea.

Entwining your fates with 5x ToO healing set is easy mode healing as it is. Seriously, it's practically OP now, and makes me feel like a better healer than most Minis.

It didn't always used to be this way. I never used it before U6 because the mechanic of taking damage my team would generally make my job more difficult, having to heal myself a lot more, in addition to the tank.

Originally Posted by timmyloo22546

Originally Posted by Raven-EU

"United we stand" - every 3 seconds for 9 seconds, the morale pools of the fellowship is redistributed so that each player have the same relative morale. On expiery: Each player is healed for 10% of their maximum morale.

Wouldn't that be bad in raids where things get rough? Take F&F T2 for example. When grims spawn and the group backs away the group members might get to 20-50% morale. If everyone in the group drops to 30% morale and the tank is still near full the tank's morale is then redistrubeted to fellowship and now the tank drops down to 40% morale while tanking. I don't like that idea.

Timmyloo, I DO see where you're coming from, but consider that if the rest of the fellowship dies, the tank is probably dead anyway. In the scenario you describe, the tank is actually helping to keep the rest of the group alive by siphoning off his own morale. In doing so, the tank is ensuring his own survival (or at least helping).

Raven, I actually do like that idea. I think it would be a major project, but I like it. Another idea is to make it so that all damage done to any member is distributed to the whole group, effectively making ALL damage distributed damage. I doubt Turbine would allocate the resources for a change like this though, considering that Fates Entwined works pretty well as-is. You know, other than the Warleader bug.

Originally Posted by timmyloo22546

Wouldn't that be bad in raids where things get rough? Take F&F T2 for example. When grims spawn and the group backs away the group members might get to 20-50% morale. If everyone in the group drops to 30% morale and the tank is still near full the tank's morale is then redistrubeted to fellowship and now the tank drops down to 40% morale while tanking. I don't like that idea.

Well, first off: Don't use the skill in that kind of situation. Don't take one situational argument and try tro use it as a general explanation why a skill would be bad, especially when it's easy to find an equally valid situations where the very same skill would save your raid Just because a skill can be used at the wrong time does not mean it's a bad skill.

I described it as a short duration (9 seconds, maximum of 3/4 pulses) equalizing skill that can go either way. Your tank is getting low after a series of unlucky crits from the boss. Bubble and EftA are on cooldown but the rest of the raid is at full health! Why not let them siphon some morale to the tank?

PerfectApproach had another good example: the raid is low but the tank+champ are not. Massive morale pool to borrow from while you heal everyone up.

You would be fundamentally altering a skill that already works extremely well, turning it into another healing CD instead of a toggle. I say no.

Originally Posted by Warth

You would be fundamentally altering a skill that already works extremely well, turning it into another healing CD instead of a toggle. I say no.

Concur... I <3 OFE the way it is... specially with the 5 set bonus with 400ish to phys/tactical mits and +1500 crit rating to group from the ToO healing armour set.... priceless.

Originally Posted by Raven-EU

Well, first off: Don't use the skill in that kind of situation. Don't take one situational argument and try tro use it as a general explanation why a skill would be bad, especially when it's easy to find an equally valid situations where the very same skill would save your raid Just because a skill can be used at the wrong time does not mean it's a bad skill.

I described it as a short duration (9 seconds, maximum of 3/4 pulses) equalizing skill that can go either way. Your tank is getting low after a series of unlucky crits from the boss. Bubble and EftA are on cooldown but the rest of the raid is at full health! Why not let them siphon some morale to the tank?

PerfectApproach had another good example: the raid is low but the tank+champ are not. Massive morale pool to borrow from while you heal everyone up.

Okay in raid situations: when people other than the tank is taking massive damage they're doing something wrong in many cases. In the rest of the cases that damage is time based and can already be healed through using what we already have without letting the tank drop super low. When the tank is taking a beating then there is wonderous foreshadowing and bubble of exhaltation. On top of that with the current version, everyone can take 10% less damage making it that much easier to heal people up. Another reason to keep the current version: it prevents induction setbacks.

So again, the examples you provide aren't anything worth having the skill you suggest. RKs manage just fine in if they alternate cooldowns and know what they're doing.

Originally Posted by TinDragon

Since you're probably going to want a specific reason, I have one for you.

Also, Rune-sign of X IS a HoT. There's no up front heal about it, so I'm confused why you bring that up.

Rune-sign isn't a HoT it's a direct heal applied once upon damage, and a buff as long as you don't get damage.

Originally Posted by TinDragon

Since you're probably going to want a specific reason, I have one for you.

Originally, AFE sent 10% of the damage from the fellowship to the RK. This in essense did a similar thing to what you suggest, where it spread the damage out more evenly (albeit not to the whole fellowship). However, it was changed in the first place because the damage would quite often kill the RK. This would end up doing the same thing, because although the damage is more distributed, the fellowship in total takes more damage (in your example, there is a total of 12k damage done instead of 8k, and it leaves 5 of the people sitting at 800 morale). In most fights, everyone is taking damage to begin with, the tank is just taking a majority of him.

Personally I'd rather heal 8k worth of damage on the tank (who is going to have incoming healing to help with that) over healing 12k damage spread through the fellowship, providing some AoE for 1k doesn't hit the entire fellowship right after, leaving JUST the tank alive.

I do hope that you understand are just example... usually Tank got twice as much morale as other players, here I choose to 10k for a tank and 2k for the other player but seriously that range of difference is just when a higher lvl tank run lower lvl with lowbies.

currently in Draig most ppl got more then 5k morale and tank is around 12-14 k let say 15k

in that kind of place a 8k damage would jsut one hit any target and there is nothing you can do to prevent that.

with the OFE the 8 K would be scattered amount 6 players in a even way...

5k*5=25k+15k= 40k

8k / 40 k = 20%

so all fellow will just get 1k and the tank 3k....

so player are at 4k and tank at 12k and all the hot are then efficient.

You got to understand that the Hot that you stack upon player that don't take damage are just wasted...

with OFE those HoT become useful because of the damage redistribution.

Originally Posted by Raven-EU

Resto-Shamans in WoW have a similar skill: Spirit Link. It would equalize the morale pools to be at the same percentage every X seconds for Y pulses.

I like the idea in general but would not want to change AFE to do this. I could see this as a long cooldown skill (5m) being granted by a legendary trait:

"United we stand" - every 3 seconds for 9 seconds, the morale pools of the fellowship is redistributed so that each player have the same relative morale. On expiery: Each player is healed for 10% of their maximum morale.

IK it's pretty much inspired from it cause I don't apreciate the current OFE and the previous version was too much hazardous to get the RK killed.

as for Improved OFE it should still have a -10% inc damage reduction buff as the old version used to give.

Originally Posted by timmyloo22546

Wouldn't that be bad in raids where things get rough? Take F&F T2 for example. When grims spawn and the group backs away the group members might get to 20-50% morale. If everyone in the group drops to 30% morale and the tank is still near full the tank's morale is then redistrubeted to fellowship and now the tank drops down to 40% morale while tanking. I don't like that idea.

Well actually raid currently already work with a distributed damage mechanism...draigoch is all about that lightning wing boss aswell.

The suggestion shouldn't be that an imbalance, and just allow to focus more or preventive healing RK instead of creating panic direct heal that will end up into mini duplicate style.

Originally Posted by PerfectApproach

Another idea is to make it so that all damage done to any member is distributed to the whole group, effectively making ALL damage distributed damage. I doubt Turbine would allocate the resources for a change like this though, considering that Fates Entwined works pretty well as-is. You know, other than the Warleader bug.

well IT is exactly the OP suggestion imo , no?

Originally Posted by jeanperson

Rune-sign isn't a HoT it's a direct heal applied once upon damage, and a buff as long as you don't get damage.

I'm really not sure what you're thinking of here. Rune-sign of X (Storm, Frost, Fire) is a small HOT plus a buff depending on the RKs affinity. (Rune-sign of Storm, for example, gives increased crit chance.) Maybe you're thinking of That Which Does Not Kill Us, but that's also a HOT once you get hit (though it does give a buff as long as you don't take damage).

Originally Posted by Warth

You would be fundamentally altering a skill that already works extremely well, turning it into another healing CD instead of a toggle. I say no.

The skill was a damage transfer, now it's only a 10% damage redux with a morale cost over time.

Originally Posted by jeanperson

The skill was a damage transfer, now it's only a 10% damage redux with a morale cost over time.

Exactly. It was changed from a damage transfer to what it is now because damage transfer didn't work. It looked good on paper but more often than not got the RK killed. Your suggestion just changes the target of death to be multiple fellowship members.

Originally Posted by TinDragon

I'm really not sure what you're thinking of here. Rune-sign of X (Storm, Frost, Fire) is a small HOT plus a buff depending on the RKs affinity. (Rune-sign of Storm, for example, gives increased crit chance.) Maybe you're thinking of That Which Does Not Kill Us, but that's also a HOT once you get hit (though it does give a buff as long as you don't take damage).

a reactive direct heal + hot

Originally Posted by TinDragon

Exactly. It was changed from a damage transfer to what it is now because damage transfer didn't work. It looked good on paper but more often than not got the RK killed. Your suggestion just changes the target of death to be multiple fellowship members.

it didn't worked because all the damage were transfered to the Rk. by redistributating amoung fellowship it would work there is other game where that mechanism is implemented and work(wow shammy spirit-link totem).

no it jsut make that none will die or all will die at same time.

Originally Posted by Warth

You would be fundamentally altering a skill that already works extremely well, turning it into another healing CD instead of a toggle. I say no.

??? i'm not turning it into another CD skill!!

It will just stay a toggle.

Originally Posted by jeanperson

it didn't worked because all the damage were transfered to the Rk. by redistributating amoung fellowship it would work there is other game where that mechanism is implemented and work(wow shammy spirit-link totem).

no it jsut make that none will die or all will die at same time.

Last time I checked it was much easier to rez one person than to wipe and start over. Why would killing everyone at the same time ever be a good idea? Sure, occasionally it might help, but more often than not it'll be worse. (Saruman fight for example). Most end-game content has either distributed or AoE damage, so everyone's taking damage already. Take the tank's damage and spread that over the fellowship too, and you will have constant wipes.

Originally Posted by TinDragon

Last time I checked it was much easier to rez one person than to wipe and start over. Why would killing everyone at the same time ever be a good idea? Sure, occasionally it might help, but more often than not it'll be worse. (Saruman fight for example). Most end-game content has either distributed or AoE damage, so everyone's taking damage already. Take the tank's damage and spread that over the fellowship too, and you will have constant wipes.

lol you are really funny..

then if raid already got distributed damage and aoe damage that every one is taking then that you redistribute those damage evenly amoung all will not cause anysingnificant change is such fight.

you will still be immune to induction setback, stil all fellow gonna have 10% damage redux.
and there will still be a power cost over time.

But when burst damage will come on a single target, coming from a random attack that some mobs/bosses does, that will be redistributed amoung all the fellow, instead of getting the target one-shot.

They can hardly even make sure our skills work the way they do now and you want to complicate things even further?

Originally Posted by jeanperson

lol you are really funny..

then if raid already got distributed damage and aoe damage that every one is taking then that you redistribute those damage evenly amoung all will not cause anysingnificant change is such fight.

you will still be immune to induction setback, stil all fellow gonna have 10% damage redux.
and there will still be a power cost over time.

But when burst damage will come on a single target, coming from a random attack that some mobs/bosses does, that will be redistributed amoung all the fellow, instead of getting the target one-shot.

Okay, say the tank gets low and the group's morale is redirected to the tank...now an aoe happens to the rest of the group and people die cuz they weren't full morale. Or group members get low (due to unavoidable aoe) and tank's morale is lowered to bring fellowship's morale up, now the tank receives a big crit and dies. If the tank didn't lose its morale due to the RK he could have taken that big hit + a small one, instead he took the big hit and died.

I would absolutely dread the suggested change.

I'd rather All Fates be left alone, it works very well as it is.

EverQuest had a very cool skill I'd love to see implimented in this game at some point which is similar to what you suggest though, it was called Divine Arbitration; a cleric could balance the hp percentage of their group once every three minutes. So if someone in the group was suddenly smacked to 10% of their morale, casting DivArb would reduce the hp of everyone else to heal that person - balancing everyone's morale to the same percentage.

Sorry but /unsigned

As a Tank all I can say is "gerrof mah Moh-rale pool" I know what i need to tank and I worked very hard to find a balance between mitigations, defences and morale pool. Last thing i need is someone syphoning it off me for no good reason. I say no good reason because, clearly, as things are today this is not needed. All content is being well handled by both RKs and Minstrel healers.

If you're argument is to protect the squishy that took an 8K hit then either that person or that raid group did something wrong. Positioning, Aggro & special attack handling come to mind. You are just asking for ways to bypass such things which Instance Developers worked very hard to balance around.

As an RK Healer I also think that, all bugs aside, iOFE is pretty epic bordering on overpowered with 5 Orthanc healing pieces. I am very happy with what it currently gives me for the price I have to pay for it. Much better than the previous configuration where a few nasty crits and i'd be dead. 10% of a lot is still a lot

Originally Posted by IMAWIN

They can hardly even make sure our skills work the way they do now and you want to complicate things even further?

Agree that's the best argument I that I got so far.

Just considering that five months later they still can't fix draiglitch, I konw that make me fear for the next Xapc, still I consider that unposted suggestions cannot inspire dev, in anyway.

I'm not posting most of my suggestions with the hope that a dev will copy paste in in-game;
I don't believe that it would ever happen, but just to give them some inspiration, balancing and intergrating stuff in-game in an appropriate way is there job and they are in a better position than me or any of you guys to know if something is appropriate; well, that's my drive: just to make comments in rhetorical forms of suggestions.