Thread: Cliff Jumping

A growing trend is to tag as many players as possible near a high cliff (usually TR Rez cliffs) and then jump, hoping to cause a mass suicide and rake in the Renown points from all the deaths.

I suggest that dying from falling injuries should void any Renown or Infamy gain.

So say we all?

lemmings.... if you're silly enough to jump to your demise after another player...

Originally Posted by Jeroen3219

lemmings.... if you're silly enough to jump to your demise after another player...

Personally I do not jump

But many of the newb/noob players will. I just do not approve of the Cliff-Tagger gaining points

You choose to jump rather than fight? NO REWARD

I have not seen this happen, however, it has got to be the funniest thing I have heard all day!
Surely this cannot be used to farm a large number of rank/commendations?
Assuming that every player that goes to the moors falls for this trick once EVERY DAY... it still isn't that much gained.

I will admit though, I am looking forward to a youtube video of this, hopefully set to a comedy soundtrack
Considering that this method requires killing yourself... I think it should be left alone to provide a quick (and hilarious) way of seeing who the noobs are :P
And here I thought lemmings were dumber then people...

Originally Posted by Jeroen3219

lemmings.... if you're silly enough to jump to your demise after another player...

This.


Solution: Be the first to jump.
Reward: Rake in infamy.


The early warg gets the hunter.

I kinda agree with this and while we are making changes why no increase the radius of when a toon dies to get the infamy/reknown my thinking is this would help eliminate the dying rage and sprint of people trying to deny points to a player on both sides.

Nope, this is an awesome thing to do.

Keep it up!

Originally Posted by Daec

Nope, this is an awesome thing to do.

Keep it up!

^
If you're dumb enough to follow once, sure. More than that though?

Of course you should get points if you can make people suicide.

There is a champ On E that does this and i think its lame and funny at the same time... But if i am a lowby a need points i have to make a decision... Jump giving him points...or not jump in which case he denies all the points that i would have earned if i suicided with him. I have no problem jumping to make sure i get points... And i am by no means a noob, i know exactly what hes doing when he blows his bubbles and sprint at 3 hump and takes off through the bears to the cliff. I get out of combat to march and charge after him. Im sure you know what happens next lol

Lol that's kinda cheap, but on the other hand, the ones that do fall for it, I imagine only fall for it once(unless it's just a really dumb player).

Take a day and go around where this commonly happens and learn which cliffs you can jump off of and live and which ones you cant. Also, just about everywhere there is a way to get down alive, you just have to know how to do it.

Originally Posted by Jeroen3219

lemmings.... if you're silly enough to jump to your demise after another player...

Holy ####, just found out where that came from.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

The misconception of lemming "mass suicide" is long-standing and has been popularized by a number of factors. In 1955, Disney Studio illustrator Carl Barks drew an Uncle Scrooge adventure comic with the title "The Lemming with the Locket". This comic, which was inspired by a 1954 American Mercury article, showed massive numbers of lemmings jumping over Norwegian cliffs.^[10][11] Even more influential was the 1958 Disney film White Wilderness, which won an Academy Award for Documentary Feature, in which staged footage was shown with lemmings jumping into certain death after faked scenes of mass migration.^[12] A Canadian Broadcasting Corporation documentary, Cruel Camera, found that the lemmings used for White Wilderness were flown from Hudson Bay to Calgary, Alberta, Canada, where they did not jump off the cliff, but were in fact launched off the cliff using a turntable.^[13]

Most cliffs have points where you can jump without dying (all cliffs I've found) so if a player jumps then move those few meters to the nearest safe point for jumping. Near tol/ta waterfall you can even jump without getting broken legs if you can hit the right spot, same with the cliff near Ost Ringdyr .
That said, if a player does jump from a sure death spot, then I'd prefer to just wait at the top of the cliff and get my inf. I've yet to see a cliff high enough that I don't get inf for someone jumping (although suicide jumps from cliffs are indeed very rare on my server. Seen 3 in my entire playtime)

The jump at Ost Ringdyr's tricky though since as far as I could find out it looked as though you need to turn the right way during the fall too. However failing this would still only give you 18-60s of brokens legs. (seen a single creep die there once. No idea how that happened, but guessing he must have pressed jump and failed to stick close to the cliff)

Yes its cheap play but you don't need to play by their rules.

Here are 2 solutions:

1)Don't jump where the champ does. Jump lower down so you don't die. You can practice this (like they obviously have) to make sure you can fall without death. The secret seems to be pushing back making sure you bounce off the cliff on your way down.

2)If there are many people following to bears, cut left through the norbogs, swim to the bottom of the cliff, wait then attack and kill the champ when they jump. Easy kill they'll have broken legs and you will not.

We actully have two champs on E who do this too. Illy was doing it long before Kid.

A few weeks back they were both doing it at the same time. It was so romantic, like Thelma and Louise driving off a cliff together.

Originally Posted by InnerChild77

I kinda agree with this and while we are making changes why no increase the radius of when a toon dies to get the infamy/reknown my thinking is this would help eliminate the dying rage and sprint of people trying to deny points to a player on both sides.

12 full credited kills sprinted out of range before death yesterday. Still got the KB though.

a kinmate did that to get his wl to r5, back when you'd get full points for it, i think you still only get the amount of points that you took off yourself now.

Haven't really tried creep play and I'm way too new at lotro to have access to freep but I'm commenting because I find this thread fascinating.

So much of what works in PvE combat depends on the stupidity of AI. I imagine Guardians aren't too useful in PvMP since it's human judgement not AI agro that they're up against.

Likewise I imagine many new freeps waltz in with all the auto-combat options checked and thus can be led by a crafty creep off a cliff just as if they're a stupid AI mob.

All obvious to you vets I'm sure but until I found this thread I hadn't really thought about how much more challenging PvMP must be. I gonna go roll me a creep toon now.

Originally Posted by ksjock

Yes its cheap play but you don't need to play by their rules.

Here are 2 solutions:

1)Don't jump where the champ does. Jump lower down so you don't die. You can practice this (like they obviously have) to make sure you can fall without death. The secret seems to be pushing back making sure you bounce off the cliff on your way down.

2)If there are many people following to bears, cut left through the norbogs, swim to the bottom of the cliff, wait then attack and kill the champ when they jump. Easy kill they'll have broken legs and you will not.

We actully have two champs on E who do this too. Illy was doing it long before Kid.

A few weeks back they were both doing it at the same time. It was so romantic, like Thelma and Louise driving off a cliff together.

The champ is running through bears all the way up to bugs, the highest point... tagging and jumping..one time i was able to get credit at the very edge of the cliff, another time i was at the edge but he must have jumped further because i didnt get credit.. Point 2 seems out of the question for me because i want to tag him enough to make it worth while for me to get points... I have no problem giving him some points off a small tag rather than him denying me alot of points.. In the future i will jump after if i feel he is too high up to the extent that i may be denied points. It sad because i will be reinforcing this lame behavior by rewarding his cowardly actions with points :/

Originally Posted by Torqky

reinforcing this lame behavior by rewarding his cowardly actions with points

This is brilliant. In a way. You make my point for me. In part, you justify my acitons. I will explain.

Dating to SoA, I had once played with a different perspective. I recall through goggles of nostalgia playing in fights of greater proportionality. I also recall, through the same cognitive bias filter, that there Seemed more respect/sportsmanship during times past. Now... not so much.

To siderail for a moment...

The leaderboards/wartab proliferation altered this game's PvP more than ANY other variable. More than Book 6 Moria or early Mirkwood. I describe this change as "bad."

Ok, we're back.

I see that the zerg, Freep or Creep, will behave in a manner that balances maximum point acquistion with minimal effort exertion. Different positions along those two functions require more cohesive, group-oriented play. Most gameplay, from my experience, occurs in/against/around/near a zerg. As such, to avoid repeated un-fun game experiences, I decided to adapt.

Now I expect the zerg. I value fights of "honor" when I find them, few they are, but I do not expect them. I expect that within the zerg I am likely to spend much of that time slowed, DPS'ed, DoT'ed, kited, CC'ed, and even watch cool-downs fly around as my morale flies away even faster. Despite my best efforts, I have failed to kill more than 5 or 6 of you Creeps at once, not counting rezzes or rez returnees

I am fortunate that I have the experience of playing the same single class since SoA: the Champion. However, I will only claim a passing familiarity with such Champ skills as Improved Seeking Blade (which cannot be defeated!), Sudden Defence + True Heroics (my beloved bubbles), Sprint (away!), or Dire Need (enough commentary). These are the tools of an easymoder, and I wield them with great efficacy. That is a function of time more than skill, in my opinion. Oh. Don't forget my golf-bag of expensive weapons, loud diamond-encrusted jewellery, and my European slim-fit armor. My kin raids with success. I also ride a speedy horse named Megatron.

Now to my point.

Cliff-jumping analysis:

-- 96% lol factor
-- 4% "[not] reinforcing this [zerg's] lame behavior by rewarding [its] cowardly actions with points"

Most of the lol factor comes after the latest episode of "2 Cliffs, One Illy" when I read the forums. The blinders I wear convince me that the vitriolic haterade is nothing more than laughter stew. Also, I see that my perspective lacks representation unless I speak for myself. Many mention the silly prancing motion of my Elf as I swan dive into the Hoardale. Not so many mention the 10+ friends behind them. To each their own, I suppose.

Conclusion: 96% lol factor suffices to not change at the behest of my faithful and honorable opponents. I'm not sorry, either - I like me more than any of you.


Cliff-diving or pile-driving?

- Illthallion


P.S. To those on E... ever hear of Apop cliff?

Just take these steps and you'll be able to get all 13 points you zerged so hard for without needing to risk your own.

1. Don't be a terrible player
2. Jump off cliffs correctly

Done!

Originally Posted by Traur

Of course you should get points if you can make people suicide.

This
You should be rewarded for all that you have done for the lulz

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

A growing trend is to tag as many players as possible near a high cliff (usually TR Rez cliffs) and then jump, hoping to cause a mass suicide and rake in the Renown points from all the deaths.

I suggest that dying from falling injuries should void any Renown or Infamy gain.

So say we all?

I can't tell if the OP is a troll or not. Seriously? there are only a few places in the moors where jumping will lead to your death, and in many cases there is a safeway down (right channel of poison spot waterfall does have a safeway down). If you blind bloodlust leads you to jump after someone to your death.... Then I would would congratulate the cliffjumper and say "Well played Sir".

Problem: cliff jumping
Solution: flying mounts
Thread value: equal
Ironic: no

Originally Posted by Odin_of_Freyr

Problem: cliff jumping
Solution: flying mounts
Thread value: equal
Ironic: no

only if wargs get hang gliders

And nazguls for reavers!

I used to do this all the time.. except on creepside. Took a group of 6 or so to TR rez.. camped for a while until we got word that the fraid was leaving wherever they had been fighting on the map.. ran up towards the cliff overlooking TA and waited. 3 firetraps did wonders for tagging.

Hello 300+ infamy...

If he can do it, we can do it!

Originally Posted by InnerChild77

I kinda agree with this and while we are making changes why no increase the radius of when a toon dies to get the infamy/reknown my thinking is this would help eliminate the dying rage and sprint of people trying to deny points to a player on both sides.

Zerg less and I wont deny points.

Originally Posted by AngusMcleod

Zerg less and I wont deny points.

Good to see they finally renamed you

"GII" was a violation of about 10 different copyrights and trademarks

http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/GII

As a Champ I have no BPE. Over the years I have practiced just about every jump in the moors for one reason.

To REMOVE BPE from my opponents and gain advantage.

Jumping to your death is silly, but jumping for a tactical reason...

The best is when I get pounced by multiple wargs and I can get them on the ground slowed with broken legs and no BPE. Those are times a Champ can really dig in and cause some pain before dying. Love it.

Originally Posted by PurebloodWorg

A growing trend is to tag as many players as possible near a high cliff (usually TR Rez cliffs) and then jump, hoping to cause a mass suicide and rake in the Renown points from all the deaths.

I suggest that dying from falling injuries should void any Renown or Infamy gain.

So say we all?

Leave it or even better, reward more points. If your dumb enough to go jumping off a cliff for someone when it is apparent your probably not going to live then well..more prop to they guy that got you all to jump. Its like luring people into one shots.