Thread: Fire or Lightning?

Hello there!

I know this is kind of a noobish question but as Im not 75 yet and far from having good gear, I wondered what should I trait when Im 75, fire or lightning?

Some time ago I remember all of the RKs running around traiting yellow but nowadays I see may people with 5+ reds.

Thanks a lot.

I think it mostly depends on personal preference. Solo, lightning is far more effective, and both are pretty close to the same for single target DPS. I prefer fire (to the point that I'm experimenting with using it even in the moors), since I am mostly a group player (and know how to control AoEs), but most rks I've asked seem to prefer lightning. Play around with both, and see which one suits you better.

I would agree with Marvi - I think this is more a matter of personal preference than anything, but I'll add that, from my experience most of the best RKs are good at both, and vary their traits and gear depending on what role they are playing. Personally, I tend to use fire for raids or any situation that will allow for AoEs and lightning where there is a burst damage requirement or a need for mobility. For the Moors I tend to run lightning pretty much exclusively (except when healing of course).

All that said, I think that if you are looking for where to invest your time in your FIRST lvl 75 LIs and armour, I would go with lightning since I find myself utilizing it more overall, and with the U6 buffs the DPS difference between it and fire has narrowed (at least from a single target perspective) quite a bit.

Originally Posted by Jeens

I know this is kind of a noobish question but as Im not 75 yet and far from having good gear, I wondered what should I trait when Im 75, fire or lightning?

Lightning for solo (Fire does work too, but is better on easy solo content).

In groups, Fire if you want AoE, Lightning if you want mobility.

I used to prefer fire, even when solo, but just recently I switched to Lightning for solo and it is much better. It wasn't a big deal at lower levels, but the induction times for fire just kill you when solo.

So I will concur with everyone else and say Fire for Raid, Lightning for solo.

Before Rise of Isengard, Fire wasn't very popular. The damage wasn't anything special, it required you to stand still, and inductions were a LOT longer. I stayed traited that way, but that was more because of spite, and back then, legendary weapons were at the mercy of the random number generator... which stuck me with fire.

These days, it doesn't matter as much. Fire DPS is back on par with everyone else, you can run while using some of the skills, and inductions have been chopped/removed.

I stay traited fire, simply because it's what I've always been traited. I'm thinking of switching to lightning though. The damage and power consumption is roughly the same, but you can move the whole time. If anything, lightning is better for that reason alone.

I concur with those stating that it should be a personal preference. They're both good DPS lines, pick the one you prefer and not the one people shove down your throat

I find I tend to run around in fire spec (because I can't be bothered to re-trait after raiding) and I've never had any problem with landscape monsters. In bigger pulls (accidental or not) where you get frequent interruptions/set-backs then you need to switch to lightning and kite a bit. Getting hit by 3/4 wargs at the same time tend to make anything but FR, MF, and the instant writs uncastable. At that point I go zap-zap.

I prefer going lightning when doing repeatable instances due to higher mobility and the lower morale of the enemies. Low/medium morale enemies die too fast to motivate the inductions/DoTs that fire consists of while medium/high morale enemies do. This does not mean that fire is bad on low morale enemies or that lightning is bad on high morale enemies, just that it's how I play.

Fire has one noticeable advantage when doing group content: better threat management (through Mystifying Flames).

I tend to disagree with people saying it's a personal preference. It is a calculated choice. Nonetheless the outcome is the same...

For solo / single / low health mobs or mobile (kiting) play... lightening.
For sustained higher damage output / high morale bosses fire is the way to go.

fire is better in agroup by a little esp if you have a LM.


Frost is also nice 4-5k crits with my aoe frost skills. not too bad.

yeah mate i run foundries quite frequently and have experimented with the plugin combatanalysis. And i found that there is a difference of about 4-500 dps between fire and lightning (fire being the greater). I also found that the enemies would drop quicker and that i would not be caught ###### my ceasless argument due to cooldowns.

At rank 6, almost 7 i have played a bit of moors and prefer a bit of a mesh of fire and lightning traits. My li items have both fire and lightnening damage traits equiped and i find it to be the best way to kill. Purely because there are no inductions, there for no down time and usually you can, if you use all your skills on a reasonably ranked anything, do about 8k+ damage

I'm with marvi in also experimenting in the moors but yeah, fire for all instances be it raid/fellow/3man and lightning for moors(with maybe 1 or 2 fire traits thrown in).

hope that helped

Originally Posted by Raven-EU

I find I tend to run around in fire spec (because I can't be bothered to re-trait after raiding) and I've never had any problem with landscape monsters. In bigger pulls (accidental or not) where you get frequent interruptions/set-backs then you need to switch to lightning and kite a bit. Getting hit by 3/4 wargs at the same time tend to make anything but FR, MF, and the instant writs uncastable. At that point I go zap-zap.

On a side note, even in accidental bigger pulls since U6 I have been quite positively surprised how far putting prelude to hope and a three-stack of Writ of Health on yourself will get you. Kiting may still be superior, but healing yourself while spamming FR more often than not does the trick. And when surrounded by three wargs, why would you want to cast something other than FR?

Originally Posted by Sagit

On a side note, even in accidental bigger pulls since U6 I have been quite positively surprised how far putting prelude to hope and a three-stack of Writ of Health on yourself will get you. Kiting may still be superior, but healing yourself while spamming FR more often than not does the trick. And when surrounded by three wargs, why would you want to cast something other than FR?

it is a 6k-8k heal everry min well it is for me, combine that with icmr and you have a lot of heals flowing for solo play.

I stick with lightning both for raiding and solo, but as others have said it's personal preference and your setup

I usually trait what's needed for raids, but for solo I actually use fire more often than not. If you deliberately pull multiple mobs, you can really burn things down very quickly without too much danger given the self heals we have. I will say, I used lightning in some of the Great River dailies recently though, and it was quite quick on individual mobs. But really, I think solo you can use either.

Originally Posted by revoked

I usually trait what's needed for raids, but for solo I actually use fire more often than not. If you deliberately pull multiple mobs, you can really burn things down very quickly without too much danger given the self heals we have. I will say, I used lightning in some of the Great River dailies recently though, and it was quite quick on individual mobs. But really, I think solo you can use either.

Have you been able to take out the spiders/trees in Limlight Gorge 7-deep fire spec?

Originally Posted by PerfectApproach

Have you been able to take out the spiders/trees in Limlight Gorge 7-deep fire spec?

i dont think thats possible since u will take way too much dmg when you stand still...


i personally prefer lightning because i really like to kite, even in raids although im prolly missing out on dps a bit there but then, im mostly healing anyways so i dont even care

Originally Posted by Mandura

i dont think thats possible since u will take way too much dmg when you stand still...


i personally prefer lightning because i really like to kite, even in raids although im prolly missing out on dps a bit there but then, im mostly healing anyways so i dont even care

I haven't been able to, and I'm really interested to see if anyone has succeeded yet.

I farmed Limlight rep from the trees traited seven Fire. Just keep Mystifying Flame and T3 Writ of Fire on them, kite till Shocking Words is up, stun them and hit them with Essence of Flame. Usually takes me about 80-100 seconds to kill one.

That was when I traited Fire for everything though, I go Lightning for all but a few specific fights now.

well, thats not pure fire then, is it?

Originally Posted by Fasin

I farmed Limlight rep from the trees traited seven Fire. Just keep Mystifying Flame and T3 Writ of Fire on them, kite till Shocking Words is up, stun them and hit them with Essence of Flame. Usually takes me about 80-100 seconds to kill one.

That was when I traited Fire for everything though, I go Lightning for all but a few specific fights now.

7-deep in the fire line means you're traited master of connotation only, which means you only get the instant Writ of Fire by using 5 fire skills. My guess is you were spamming MF until WoF was instant? I suppose that would work. You'd almost HAVE to throw in the odd lightning skill though, in between keeping the dot's ticking and keeping Writ of Health and Prelude up.

I may have to give this a try.

Well I have always felt that you have to use some lighting to make Fire even better. The stuns from lighting allow you to hit with some of the higher induction spells in fire, I feel like you have to find the right balance between the 2 to be effective.

That said I trait 7 fire and throw in some of the lighting skills not looking for damage but using them just for the stuns.

Originally Posted by Jeroen3219

I tend to disagree with people saying it's a personal preference. It is a calculated choice. Nonetheless the outcome is the same...

For solo / single / low health mobs or mobile (kiting) play... lightening.
For sustained higher damage output / high morale bosses fire is the way to go.

Do current parses really prove that fire is still the higher sustained single target DPS? I have recently read quite a few claims on this forum that both are equal in that regard now.

Originally Posted by Sagit

Do current parses really prove that fire is still the higher sustained single target DPS? I have recently read quite a few claims on this forum that both are equal in that regard now.

I don't know anyone with all the proper equipment to be able to parse both fire and lightning with any kind of objectivity. And some of the RK's on this forum wouldn't believe it anyway; they would inevitably find something wrong with the parse.

Originally Posted by PerfectApproach

And some of the RK's on this forum wouldn't believe it anyway; they would inevitably find something wrong with the parse.

I've actually found the opposite to be true, at least in the RK and Champ forums (the ones I frequent the most). This is of course assuming you provide legitimate parses to compare to (ie no 15 second parses on targets that are vastly different).

In general, the decision to trait fire or lightning depends on what I'm doing.

Solo, I trait 5Y2B, the 2B for survival. Some trait 7Y for raw DPS, I say you don't do extra DPS when you're knocked out and trait Rune of Endurance and Linnod of Peace to enhance my solo healing and crowd control abilities (lag is also an issue for me, as I have a high-latency connection - the conservative traiting helps me survive lag spikes).

Grouped up, I trait 7R when I'm running instances with my kin and don't need to worry about my AOEs. If I need to specialize in single-target DPS (some mobs need to stay mezzed, and a stray DoT can ruin a good strategy), I'll not trait Conflagration or Linnod of Flame and instead go 5R and either 2Y or 2B depending on what the group needs (extra emergency CC or healing).

Lightning:
Single target burst direct damage
short range (20m)

Good:
Kite by casting while moving; do some CC to slow/stun/dazed target.

Bad:
range might be an issue and damage burst might cause aggro issue aswell



Fire:
Caster DoT dealer both AoE and Single Target
better range (30)

Good:
Damage scale better in long fight and threat is not an issue.

Bad:
Cannot move whiel casting.




I had a friend Mini who was conplaining that he had issue about beating only RK, cause of the Stun and daze they cause, I told him that all those skill where only 20m or melee vs 30m for Mini ballad and calls and 40m for cries.

So to just keep running away and keep RK out of range and he will be just unable to damage you.


I leveled as a Fire and never enjoyed the lightning, I played fire with 2 BoP traits (prophetic words, Linnod of Peace or writ of well-being) and just self healed myself while DPSing:
Püll with EoF
commun skills used where 3 writs, Fiery Ridicule, Distracting Flames, Ceaseless Arguments , Smouldering Wrath and Shocking Word

Originally Posted by Jeroen3219

I tend to disagree with people saying it's a personal preference. It is a calculated choice. Nonetheless the outcome is the same...

For solo / single / low health mobs or mobile (kiting) play... lightening.
For sustained higher damage output / high morale bosses fire is the way to go.

+1, its not about what u "prefer", fire was designed to be the ultimate choice for raiding, and lightning, for solo.
I actually never saw it as a doubtable discussion as I was seeing the differences clearly on CA
and one more thing, u don't have a reason to prefer lightning on groups( I'm not talking about exceptions, where u can't aoe or w/e), fire is just more fun

Fire all the way for sure, though lightning on single mobs solo is the best choice though anything above 50k that does not need to be kited - fire is still the best. As a lot of you have already mentioned if you trait two healing and 5 fire, you can pretty much stand still and tank most solo and small ffl quest related mobs without any issues.

Anyways, my main point is here that RKs in fire spec can pretty much pull 20-30 mobs and mf kite (no limit tbh, though if you get lag you will die). I made a video with the solo instance The Forges of Isengard that will illustrate more clearly. I'm sure a champ can do it faster with bubble spam, but doubt a lightning spec RK can come anywhere close to this speed.

The mf kite is also perfect in moors, it is the ultimate pew pew leecher. It will effectively ninja off 20-40 infamy per kill. All you have to do is keep you att. at 3+.
Hoping for our lovely rk dev. not to read this and nerf us

That's hilarious. I would never have thought to try it. Well done